Talk:Tacoma, Washington

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for anyone interested...this could be added to this article, or a new article could also be created [1] Kingturtle 00:15 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

Contents 1 What's with the gang section??? 2 Sister City: Takuma 3 racism 4 I added the City of Tacoma Population by year 5 Urban Form additions 6 Opening section needs revision 7 Blogs 8 Tacoma or Greater Tacoma Area 9 Population 10 New Picture 11 Decline 12 Picture Issues, Part 2 13 Smell 14 My Two Cents Worth 15 Riots? 16 Category:People from Tacoma

[edit] What's with the gang section???

Is it really necessary to highlight which gangs are active in which neighborhoods? Tacoma, like most other cities, has some gang activity. Things may have been pretty out of hand 20 years ago, but contrary to what the media tells you, there is not a big gang problem here... If there is no big groundswell of opposition, I'm going to clean that paragraph up in a few days to remove the by-neighborhood shakedown. - Ctb 19:51, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be appropriate to mention the areas that show heavy gang activity, but not necessarily show which gangs inhabit which areas -- unless there has been a notable, ongoing, newsworthy dispute that has otherwise affected the neighbourhoods or the lives of those in those neighbourhoods. Sky 19:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

"131.191.57.233" appears to have reinstated several of the edits I did earlier to remove the geographical descriptions of where gangs are located. (At minimum, there is some issues with "no original research" here as there is no source citation.) If "131.191.57.233" has any input to the discussion I would expect that he/she would provide it on the talk page. I'm also going to remove the "methamphetamine capital" reference as there is no source cited on this whatsoever (see here for a non-citation). I have no illusions that there may be gang activity in Tacoma, but I do not think that it deserves the prominent mention that it is getting in this article. I'm going to do some minor cleanup at this time. Subsequently, unless someone has any opposition, I'm going to create a new section in the vein of "negative image of Tacoma" where we can move descriptions of gangs, the Aroma, etc. - Ctb 21:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, this is 131.191.57.233, also known as **N**. Native, live right off of 6th Ave. Anyway, I haven't been back to this article for awhile and I notice that, once again, the gang stuff has been brushed over. I'll refrain from making any edits this time in the spirit of building consensus.

This page looks a lot better than when I first found it. The first page read like a cheerleading article, talking about how Tacoma used to be this and that "but it's not anymore!" Tacoma used to smell bad... but not anymore! Tacoma used to have gangs... but not anymore! Look at the convention center and the UW, we're a modern, world-class city! Uhh, I really resent the attempt to pave over Tacoma's history. This has always been a rough-and-tumble town, from the dockwockers and loggers of yore to the military who made So. Tacoma their home starting in the 1930s. IMO, that's part of it's charm.

These are the facts. (1) Tacoma still smells. "Total sulfur emissions" may have been reduced, but when the wind blows right, all downtown is still bathed in it. (2) Tacoma has more gang activity than similar-sized cities in the Pacific Northwest. Yes, Hilltop isn't as bad as it was in the 1980s, but it ain't no picnic either. (3) UW is cool, but on the whole the "Downtown Renaissance" sucks. The Convention Center is a stupid building, the Art Museum is ugly, and if one drives along the historic streetcar routes from Stadium to Lincoln, it quickly becomes apparent that the blocks between 13th and 17th are ***the most sterile to be found anywhere***. I have a dog in this fight, because a culture which verbally glosses over the past tends to accept and encourage the same on a physical scale. Tacoma has some of the most interesting neighborhoods and business districts to be found anywhere, and I would hate to see that lost in the name of "revitalization."

Let's figure out how to discuss the unsavory aspects of the T-A-C. I will concede that perhaps my detailed descriptions of which gangs own what turf don't belong in the main article, but the current text is just laughable. "Tacoma became infamous for gang activity in the 1980s and early 1990s, but it has declined significantly in recent years. Areas formerly associated with gang activity, such as Hilltop, have been significantly cleaned up." Yeeeaaah... let's make this article a true depiction of Tacoma, from the shiny and clean to the grimy and unsavory. I'll hold on edits for the time being.

-----N, April 29th, 2006

San Jose, California, is the "methamphetamine capital" of America.

Gangs are in every large US city, I don't see how that assists the information concerning Tacoma. I moved the gang section to history where I believe it is more appropriate than "revitalization."

---AceLt.

I agree with below and above, the gangs references on the main page should be brief. But the current text is *LAUGHABLE*. "but it has declined significantly in recent years as many neighborhoods have enacted community policing and other policies." It's a rose-colored, sure-we-were-ghetto-but-no-more attitude. NOT true. We've got people in East Tacoma spraying houses with bullets and killing 3 at a time, we've got people shooting up the mall and the freeway and all over the freakin' place. YES, this stuff happens in Chicago, Houston, etcetera - but it doesn't happen with nearly the same frequency in Seattle or Portland, which are comparable, larger cities.

So, let's tell the world what we are. We're an insanely beautiful city with a wonderfully laid-back citizenry. We've got a bit of a crime problem, and when the wind is right the whole place smells pretty bad. Our port is second to none, and our elected officials' inferiority complex has led them to drop millions on stupid buildings like the convention center, then try to close fire stations to recover the debt. Basically, we're an all-American city, with shiny sides and dirty sides and bright sides and quite a few dark sides. But we're not yuppie-friendly; go to Bellevue or Puyallup.

If you really want a discussion of the history of Tacoma gangs, perhaps it could be on a separate linked page like the neighborhoods. However, other than mentioning gangs on the front page, I don't we necessarily want to dovote a huge amount of space to it there.

--AceLT 01:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

"We've got people in East Tacoma spraying houses with bullets and killing 3 at a time,"

Most big cities have gang problems even with multiple deaths. However, I have not seen it on any of their front pages. Perhaps you might try placing some of the content on the East Tacoma area section.

--AceLT 19:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

You're missing the point though. Yes, places like Chicago or Houston have the same problems, but if you actually compare statistics we are way above cities like Seattle or Portland, which are the most comparable. Therefore, it is disingenuous to talk about gang activity as if it all occured in the past.

citation needed for drive by section.

--AceLT 19:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

"Today, Crime activity is rising in East Tacoma. Drive-bys are increasing, and police fear it might reach the hundreds as seen in the hilltops in the old days. Car jackings are also common near the east side and near the Tacoma mall and downtown. (citation needed) "

I don't see any cite for any of these statements.

--AceLT 19:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sister City: Takuma

I reinstated Takuma to the list of sister cities. It was mentioned in the newspaper recently and a Google search will list some sites such as this that confirm this. --Chris S. 02:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

That site is hardly authoratative compared to the City of Tacoma website and the Sister Cities International website, neither of which lists Takuma. I don't know if there maybe was a previous association that no longer exists, or if they're only informally 'sisters' (probably based on the similarity between the names), but clearly Tacoma and Takuma are NOT officially sister cities. I think it should be left off, at least until it can be determined if they were once sisters, or are just informal sisters, so which ever it is can be specified. Niteowlneils 03:03, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. Ok, I see. I was looking for a list like that myself. I wonder, though, where people got this idea? Apparently people think there is some connection. The Takuma website in Japanese even has something about Tacoma - http://www.town.takuma.kagawa.jp/tiea/tieah3.htm. 詫間 is Takuma and タコマ is Tacoma on that page. But my Japanese is very basic, so I can't tell if there is a reference to sister cities. It does mention a party, a baseball game, and elementary school students from Tacoma. Also this page mentions that Tacoma & Takuma were to enter a sister-city relationship in 1991. And this Seattle-based Japanese-American newspaper says they are sister cities. Anyway, I wonder where they got this idea. --Chris S. 09:59, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

My guess it that it's most likely an informal term based on the shared name, and/or the fact that the baseball games between Tacoma teams and Takuma are connected to the Sister City program ("The Tacoma-Pierce County Sister City Cultural Baseball Exchange has existed for over 14 years between Tacoma high school baseball players and players from Takuma and Kitakyushu, Japan."[2], even tho' the relation developed thru the sister status with Kitakyushu. Niteowlneils 19:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] racism

why no talk of the racism in tacoma like the riots in april 1968 where half of hill top was destroyed or the opression of the natives in tacoma by the whites? or the raceism by the whites against the chinese in the late 1800? wtf is this just some lame ass happy city BS? tacomas a corupt city that KKK history raceism and genocide talk about that..

tacomas a city built on blood and bones of slaugthered natives i have livied here my whole life its run by a corupt cityu councel and a croupet police cheif its a hell hole of raceism and oppresion

(unsigned comments by 24.19.89.36)

Feel free to add information on all of the above to the article. --Lukobe 04:03, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow. That applies if you live in Hilltop maybe. Downtown there's a slight chance. But look at the rest of Tacoma and you won't find any of this corruption and bloodshed and slaughter and racism and genocide that you're bitching about. I live there, and have for my whole life. A corupt city council. Yeah. That's why the city is spending millions of dollars on the public schools this year with remodeling, special ed teachers, and more staff. Uh-huh. Corupt police chief? Give me one reason that he's corrupt.

Javatom 16:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I added the City of Tacoma Population by year

I added the City of Tacoma Population by year history from 1910 thru 2000. JeffreyAllen1975 05:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Urban Form additions

-Clarified and expanded discussion of the street numbering system (not sure if it is brief enough, though). -Expanded discussion of business districts and added a link to the Cross District Association -Added a link to the article on the ferry Rhododendron, which I hope to also expand in the future.

[edit] Opening section needs revision

The opening section of Tacoma needs some revision. It's not very concise, nor does it give a general overview of the history, spirit, and pattern of events that occur here, nor does it highlight recent events that have taken place here like Downtown revitalization or the like.

[edit] Blogs

Below is the Wiki policy on Blogs:

Blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace) and forums should generally not be linked to. Although there are exceptions, such as when the article is about, or closely related to, the website itself, or if the website is of particularly high standard.

--AceLT 17:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tacoma or Greater Tacoma Area

The Article lists Pierce College, and Pacific Lutheren University as being in Tacoma, when neither are actually within Tacoma City limits. Pierce College is in Lakewood, with a satellite in Puyallup, and PLU is in Parkland. All of these locations are definately in the Greater Tacoma Area, but if this is about Tacoma the city, then maybe this section should be clarified?

--Edited Education section to reflect the above data (location of PLU and Pierce College) As well added a new paragraph listing most of the private schools in Tacoma.--Saul T 14:59, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The population figures in this article have not been cited. As such, I have removed them. I have changed the population figures to the 2005 census estimates. There were figures within this article claiming population estimates as recent as 2006, but the census has not released any information that recent. If anyone feels that this information is wrong or the 2006 estimates can be cited, feel free to change it. Ajwebb 18:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Within the past years, it broke news statewide that Tacoma surpassed Spokane's population, retaking its place as the 2nd largest city in the state. Unfortunately I can't remember when that broke, so would take me awhile to find the local news article about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chibiabos (talk • contribs).

It was speculated briefly (see Doug Clark, "We need to soften the blow for the population-challenged", (Spokane) Spokesman Review, Mar 6, 2005)[3] that Tacoma had briefly surpassed Spokane, but April 1, 2006 numbers released by the state Office of Financial Management keep Spokane officially at number 2. [4] Travisl 04:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Picture

Hey, what's the deal with the 20 year-old picture? is there anywhere or anyone who can get us an updated, newer picture? Stevo D 01:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I could. All anyone needs to do is go down Ruston Way a bit and take a picture standing on the pathway. I assume that's where that picture was taken from. Next sunny day I might go down there. --Liface 02:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Decline

The article needs some clarification on what is meant by the "decline" that is mentioned in the intro. From what I can see on the population table, the city never lost population. -newkai t-c 19:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture Issues, Part 2

I again raise the issue that we need a new picture of Tacoma's skyline. we don't have one (except for the 25 year old picture) and even then, it isn't very characteristic of the city, covering only a small portion of the city's skyline. I again, propose (plea?) that someone from Tacoma can take a good picture of the city's skyline. Stevo D 09:03, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smell

I don't see any mention of the horrible wreak as one drives through Tacoma?? Ask anybody in Puget Sound and they'll tell you "The Tacoma smell has at least got better over the last 20 years," meaning it's widespread local knowledge. Google turns up almost half a million results for tacoma smell. FireWeed 00:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My Two Cents Worth

I've spent the last several weeks reading various articles on Wikipedia pages. I made a minor addition to one page. This is my first comment. For those of you who missed Noam Cohen's ( New York Times ) article regarding Wikipedia ( TNT 02-23-07 pg. A4 ), I would suggest you read it. There is a lot that is good about an online source of information in the form of "encyclopedia", but if it loses its credibility in the academic world because of errata or vandalism, all that well-intentioned effort is wasted. While gang warfare or the 'aroma of Tacoma' may well seem to us, the local denizens, to be primary features of our own home town, such subjects do not have an appropriate place in what proposes to be an academic 'encylopedia', nor are they of legitimate value to a person seeking information on this particular subject. On the other hand, I was dismayed to find 'article not found' when clicking the hyperlink to 'David Brame'. While it may be true that Wikipedia is 'not controlled by the CIA, Martians, or Elvis', one has to wonder how much of the content is being removed or edited by public officials, law enforcement, or the local chamber of commerce. That the City of Tacoma has a long history ( little of which can be documented, other than through anecdotal sources ) of corrupt public officials ( especially in City Hall and local law enforcement ) is an issue worthy of mention, especially when in those instances elected officials are recalled ( A.L. "Slim" Rasmussen, et al ), or are involved in murder/suicides ( Brame ). Overall, the article reads as though it were put together for a tourism pamphlet, and does little in the way of providing a comprehensive history of the City, its evolvement, its relationship to other metropolitan areas in Puget Sound, and its significance in international commerce. Just my lousy two cents worth. Ski mohawk 13:20, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Riots?

Does this:

Tacoma has recently been featured on the popular video website YouTube after postings of a riot in which police used tear gas and rubber bullets to disperse a peaceful protest, seen here: Tacoma Police Riot

belong in the article? Not that the incident happened, but the post to a specific YouTube video, etc.?

Editing to remove "peaceful" because of police allegations of barricades thrown.

KevinPuj 21:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:People from Tacoma

To do (by someone else, or by me when I get time): Gut the "Noteworthy Tacomans" section, and replace it with a link to Category:People from Tacoma, but make sure they're all listed in there first. Travisl 21:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)