Talk:Thérèse de Lisieux

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==The parents of St. Therese, Louis Martin and Zelie Guerin, were declared Venerables by Pope John Paul II in 1994. A reputed miraculous cure of a thirteen month old child with a lung disorder was accepted by the Archbishop of Milan in 2003 as attributable to the intercession of the Martin couple, making them eligible for beatification. No date has been set for this ceremony, which first must be approved by the Pope.

Leonie Martin, the third eldest child to survive to adulthood, has also been mentioned as a possible candidate for sainthood. Of the five Martin daughters, Leonie was outwardly the least talented and attractive. She seemed to have suffered from obsessive-compulsive and skin disorders. Therese's letters to Leonie are among the first expressions of Therese's "way of confidence and love." In 1899, after the death of Therese, Leonie entered the Visitation Monastery in Caen. As Sister Francoise-Therese, she lived there until her death in 1941, earning the reputation of being a kind and humble nun. You can read more about her in the book "Leonie Martin: A Difficult Life" by Marie Baudoin-Croix. Accordingly, there may be as many as four members of the Martin family formally recognized by the Church, or, perhaps, it may decide that St. Therese's canonization and popularity have brought bring enough recognition to her entire immediate family without the need for further ceremony.

Therese is the only member of her family to have been canonized.

1 Miracles?
2 doubts about the afterlife
3 Why Russia?
4 question

[edit] Miracles?

I'm not Catholic, but I believe that to be made a saint you must perform miracles after death (that would mean you are not in purgatory but in heaven, and only saints can go to heaven directly). What was the basis for canonization? What miracles were claimed, and were they all accepted as true by the vatican?

Here's an excerpt from the Bull of Canonization of St. Thérèse of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face. It answers your questions, but it is long (though not compared to what it was taken from). [1] is the source--the statement is under the transcript of the homily, just scroll down to get to it. The site goes into further depth about the miracles, why they were considered to be so, what research was done, etc.

"The Process having been carried through its various stages, and the heroic nature of the virtues practiced by Thérèse having been duly inquired into, the General Congregation was held on August 2, 1921, in presence of Pope Benedict XV. His Eminence, Cardinal Vico, Ponent of the Cause, submitted for discussion the question of the heroism of the Servant of God in practicing the theological virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity, as also the cardinal virtues of Prudence, Fortitude, Justice, and Temperance. The Cardinals and Consulters present gave their vote, and after delaying in order to obtain further light from God, Our Predecessor promulgated his decision on the eve of the Assumption, to the effect that the Venerable Thérèse had practiced the above virtues to an heroic degree.

So rapid and triumphant was the progress of the Cause that at once two miracles were proposed for examination, chosen out of a multitude of prodigies said to have been wrought throughout the Christian world by the powerful intercession of the Venerable Thérèse. The first concerned Sister Louise of St. Germain, of the Daughters of the Cross, victim of an organic disease, namely, a grave ulcer in the stomach, of hemorragic nature. On having recourse to the intercession of Thérèse, she was restored to perfect health, as three eminent doctors have unanimously testified at the request of the Sacred Congregation of Rites. The second miracle, somewhat similar to the first, was the cure of the young seminarist, Charles Anne, victim of pulmonary haemoptysis, of the cavitary stage. He confidently invoked the aid of the Servant of God and was perfectly cured. This is clear from the testimony of the three doctors, and from the reasons on which they based their decisions."

[edit] doubts about the afterlife

Re:

Throughout the eighteen months before she died, Therese underwent agonizing doubts about the existence of an after-life, reporting that, despite her redoubled prayers, she feared the prospect that death would only bring about a "nothingness of being", rather than eternal life.

cut from article:

In this, she is seen as a very modern saint, anticipating the loss of faith that characterized the twentieth and early twenty-first centuries, particularly in Europe.

Who sees her as a modern saint? And is the implication that she lost faith? Is believe in life after death an essential part of faith? Or Catholic faith in particular?

Sounds like someone is saying she wasn't very saintly. If so, a citation is needed for this point of view. --Uncle Ed 16:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

No, to the contrary, she is the greatest saint of modern times, as Pope St. Pius X described her to be. In her autobiography, she courageously described her dark night of the soul, wherein she felt no consolation from religion yet, in response, redoubled her prayers. No citation is needed beyond her own written testimony in "The Story of a Soul": "it seems to me that the darkness, borrowing the voice of sinners, says mockingly to me: 'you are dreaming about eternally possessing the Creator of all these marvels, you believe that one day you will walk out of this fog that surrounds you! Advance, advance, rejoice in death which will give you not what you hope for but a night more profound, the night of nothingness'". She further admitted, "when I sing of the happiness of heaven and of the eternal possession of God, I feel no joy in this, for I sing simply what I WANT TO BELIEVE" (her emphasis). Therese is no sappy, plaster saint. She experienced profound religious doubts, as she was slowly dying, just when she most needed sweet consolations. Her courage, her honesty, her perseverance are what make her a great saint. She was not preserved in aspic, as it were, away from human struggle and angst, and is not, as some of her more sentimental devotees portray her, the patron saint of "cheap grace". She once said that "Jesus is all bloody", referring to the toughness at the core of the Christian message. So was Therese herself.

That sounds good. Can we add that to the article? --Uncle Ed 15:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad you thought it should be added, and I'll do so--or at least try to figure out how to do so. By the way, there is an interesting draft article on this issue from June 1999 at the Woodstock Theological Center (Georgetown University) titled "Desolation and Doctrine in Therese of Lisieux" that discusses her "trial of faith" in quite a bit more detail. Juan.

On the advice of her confessor, Therese wrote the Creed in her own blood. She courageously accepted the temptations against faith, calling them simply "a trial." Her sister Celine wrote: "We have a curious paradox here: in the midst of a great temptation against faith, which concerned chiefly the existence of heaven, Therese constantly showed that she hoped in that heaven, and continually expressed her desire for it." (from "St. Therese by those who knew her, ed. Christopher O'Mahony, OCD).

[edit] Why Russia?

Why is she considered the patron saint of Russia by the Roman Catholic Church? I couldn't find any connection with Russia mentioned in the article. —An gr 12:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)