Talk:The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

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Set Album to Class B & Top Importance Megamanic 08:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Who wrote what? 2 Enossification 3 underground realm? 4 Hey, I've seen the musical box... 5 Full Album Walkthrough 6 Brian Eno's contribution 7 phil collins' vocals 8 "Lamb Lies Down" or "Lamb Lies down"? 9 Kevin Gilbert, Giraffe and The Lamb

[edit] Who wrote what?

I removed the claim that Gabriel wrote "Carpet Crawlers" on his own. I've heard that Gabriel wrote all or most of the music to "Counting Out Time" and "The Chamber of 32 Doors", but I don't think he wrote the "Carpet Crawlers" music. If someone wants to put this claim back in, make sure you have a reliable source for it.

It's dubious to make such claims anyways, since legally, all 5 members own an equal share of the writing credits.--feline1 12:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

he just worked on the music for Counting out Time, the rest was made by the rest of the band.

yeah, i'm fairly certain he DIDN'T write "Carpet Crawlers," but according to the annotated lamb lies down on broadway (you can find it under external links) "Counting Out Time" was written solely by Gabriel. i never heard anything about "The Chamber of 32 Doors."

[edit] Enossification

The article says Eno mainly just treated the vocals on "Grand Parade...". What's the source for this? I can hear plenty more stuff which sounds like it went through Eno's Synthi AKS filters on this album...

I see what you mean - the acoustic piano intro to the album sounds like it may have been fed through Eno's synth patching (but don't quote me on it!); and definetly Steve Hackett's guitar solo on Counting Out Time (you can definetly hear the Enosifficated effects on that!).

collins said in an interview that Eno was next door while gabriel was working on the vocals for the grand parade of lifeless packaging, and his name was put in the credits on a whim and the other members (i think Banks in particular) were somewhat dismayed he got credit as people would assume he did more than just lend gabriel his synth for that one track. it's in the annotated lamb lies down on broadway (search within that page for "enossification"). note that the music was recorded before the lyrics were written, and the music was recorded in a different studio than the vocals.

[edit] underground realm?

I edited the section which said that the story took place in an "underground realm". In fact the opening song includes the line "And out of the subway, Rael imperial aerosol kid, exits into daylight spraygun hid." Rather than a subterranean world, the story takes place in what would better be described as an alternative dimension. The original article also made no mention of the major theme of duality with the album culminating in Rael's realization that he is John.

In the Genesis Archives 1967-1975 box, "The Lamb Live" discs, Peter Gabriel says in the intro: "Our hero, named Rael, crawls out of the subways of New York city, and is sucked into the wall, to regain conciousness underground".

[edit] Hey, I've seen the musical box...

and i can relate the story of the lamb completely. but im not sure how to cite that. i can also tell you that after seeing them it becomes fairly obvious that the lamb was written for live performances (particulairily on Broadway Melody and waiting room). the purpose of broadway melody is to give gabriel time to get off stage throw off his jacket and appear on the other side. and as for the waiting room thats to go with the pictures that are being projected on stage. so let me know how to cite the story and ill write it up.

I removed the following from the article. --Shepard 02:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't written FOR live performance, perhaps sequenced that way, though. All the music was written before the story was even written- Steve, Mike, Tony and Phil wrote all the music on their own, and Peter wrote the lyrics to it afterwards. It's not like they wrote those instrumentals for the sole purpose of costume changes. "The Waiting Room" seemed to be the piece that the band was most proud of, so I dare say that the projected pictures were set up for the sole purpose of complementing that instrumental. --Progjunky 01:10, 07 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Full Album Walkthrough

• (note - this is an interpretation based on listening to the music, reading the lyrics, and reading the textual "music video" to the album in the booklet. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL. It is only an interpretation. Please enjoy.)

(SIDE 1)

1)The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway - The main protagonist (Rael, a Puerto-Rican punk) exists the subway with a spraycan in his hand. He had just finished tagging the wall, and is currently focusing on avoiding the cops until he can get back to his gang. He continues to walk down Broadway.

2)Fly on a Windshield - Eventually Rael notices a very dark cloud desending onto the street. It solidifies, forming a wall with reflections of another dimension on it. He looks around but no one else around him even seems to notice it. The wall moves quickly straight for Rael. He turns and runs, but wind blasts into his face, slowing him down. As dust is whipped up into the air, it settles onto Rael's clothing and hardens. He can't move, and becomes the equivelent to a fly waiting for the winshield on the freeway - a sitting duck. As the wall hits him, he is flooded with memories of seeming randomness. Emotion whirls around him and he loses grasp of his situation.

3)Broadway Melody of 1974 - Seemingly random memories of events having to do with New York and Broadway fill his mind, and hes sees all of it as he is carried away from that world.

4)Cuckoo Cocoon - Rael regains consiousness in a dark environment, wrapped up in a cocoon of sorts (made of powdered wool). He wonders for a while where he is and wether or not he is dead, but decides that he is still him, and alive.

5)In the Cage - However, despite the traumatizing events, the cocoon feels very nice, and he drifts off to sleep. Later, he wakes up and the cocoon is no longer there. He feels disgusting and sick. He looks around and realizes that he is actually in a cave of some sort. Howver, when he walks around, the stalactites and stalagmites grow and connect, forming a cage, and he cannot escape. He panics, and looks around frantically. He thinks that if he can keep his self control, he'll be okay, but eventually he falls back into fear. He looks around and sees other "cages" connected into different stars. Then he notices his brother John, and cries out for help, but his brother is too scared and doesn't even attept to help him. This is the first time his brother betrays him. As John leaves, the cage opens up, but Rael begins spinning like a top. He moves faster and faster until he blacks out.

6)The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging - He wakes up in a contemporary corridor, and there is a saleswoman at the end of it. She gives a sales-pitch about this new revolutionary product, and Rael is sent to the factory floor. He looks around and sees people wrapped up and put on display. However, there is something different about them. They are all people he knows! He sees all the members of his gang, and then comes upon his brother, who has the number nine stamped on his forehead. He turns around and runs in absolute panic and blacks out again.

7)Back in N.Y.C - (Note - the next three songs are a flashback) Rael sees himself back in NYC in his gang and we learn a bit about his life. He was released from Pontiac Penitentiary at age 17, and only then did he get respect from his gang, The Pack. We see how he lives through life, acting aggressive towards everything.

8)Hairless Heart - Rael then has a vision of his heart exiting his chest. It is covered in hair (symbolizing the mess of his former life clouding what his heart really wants) All the hair is then shaved off by a sleek, annonymous razor, and the organ is returned to his body, beating out the steps to his life from then on.

9)Counting Out Time - This is put to the test as Rael relives his first sexual encounter, as the heart counts out the beats to each step in the process of a night out.

10)Carpet Crawlers - Rael once again regains consiousness in the corridor, but instead of the saleslady, there are now people on the floor, all crawling to get to the door at the end. "That door leads to the exit," they all say. "You have to get in that room to get out of here." Not questioning why he doesn't have to crawl, Rael boldly walks up, opens the door, and enters the room.

11)The Chamber of 32 Doors - Inside is a spiral staircase which leads to a circular chamber which, as Rael finds out, has thirty-two doors, but only one leading to the exit. There are tons of people inside, all arguing over what door they should choose, and Rael has no idea who he should trust.

(SIDE 2)

12)Lilywhite Lilith - Rael eventually notices a very pale woman sitting away from the group. she says that she's blind, but if he will help her through the crowd, she can show him the way out. They enter a door (which everyone ignores, believing it's destined for failure) and move through a dark passageway. Rael stumbles, but Lilith, despites her blindness, walks confidently. They eventually reach a dark room with rocks on the floor. She sits Rale on a very large one, and tells him, "Do not be afraid. I'm going to get him. Wait here and try not to be frightened." and then exits into the darkness.

13)The Waiting Room - Soon there is light at one end of the room, the light is too bright, and it irritates Rael, but it continues to grow. As the light bounces of the walls in to room, it completely blinds Rale and he cannot see anything. He begins to loose control of other senses when he grabs a rock and hurls it at the brightest point. The lights go out instantly and Rael can see that they were two orbs as the exit. He is halliy flooded with all of his senses returned and walks around for a while, but a resounding crack from the cieling drops a trap on him.

14)Anyway - Rael desends into dpression then, thinking, well, this is it. I'm finished. He continues his thoughts of misery and rambles off a dying man's thoughts. However, he soon hears a voice saying "Good morning Rael. So sorry you had to wait. It won't be long. She's very rarely late.

15)Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist - Lilith returns and happily introduces her friend, Death, by his nick-name. She goes on and on about how much he can help you. Then her friend enters, sprays some perfume on Rael, and leaves.

16)The Lamia - As Rael is let out of his trap, he notices the perfume is distributed unevenly around the room. He moves to the place where it is the thickes and finds a crack in the wall that he can fit through. On the other side, he finds a beutiful passageway, with chandeliers lining it. As he continues down it, he enters a chember with a pool of necter. Thinking that he's alone, he begins to enter the nectar, but before he can, ripples form and he realizes that his isn't the only one there. Out of the water come three large snakes with female (human) faces. They explain how they have watched him on his journey, and love him deeply. Rael is horrified at first, but he is drawn to their beauty. They esk him to refressh by drinking some of the nectar. He instantly trusts them, undressing and entering the pool. As his drinks the nectar, they scan him with their tongues and judge him. Then they begin to nibble on his skin, but he feels no pain. As the first blood enters their mouths, they cry out and die. Rael desperately tries to find some signs of life, but they have passed. He then vows that they have not died in vain. He gathers their bodies and carries them with him as nourishment on his long journey. They took him inside them, so he will do the same in time.

17)Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats - Rael fins a boat and travels across the pool and finds an exit from the chamber on the other side.

18)The Colony of Slippermen -

a)The Arrival -

Rael soon sees some hideously deformed people as he passes out of the Lamia's chamber. However, it is he who they all point and laugh at. A man explains, "We all went through the exact same experience. The Lamia regenerate each time, ready to trick the next traveller. And this," he gestures towards himself, "is what happens." He shows Rael his own reflection and he sees that he, too, has become a slipperman. As he looks into the crowd, he notices whats left of his brother, and runs up to him. They both hug, and find out that the only way to fix what the Lamia have done, is visit the notorious Doktor Dyper, and have a "removal of the senses." In other words, castration. They both decide that it is for the better and make the trip.

b)A Visit to the Doctor -

Rael and John both go through the operation, through a hilarious depiction in the lyrics, and get there former parts in a golden tube each, in which the Doktor suggests they wear it around their necks.

c)The Raven -

Soon a large, dark bird swoops down and snatches up Rael's tube. He shouts , "Come on, John! Help me get it!" but John refuses. He says, "In the Colony of Slippermen, you learn not to follow the Raven. That is where danger lies." This is the second time his brother betrays him. Rael takes off after the bird, and as he just about reaches it, it soars over an enormous ravine and drops it nonchalantly into a river.

19)Ravine - Rael despairs at the loss of it. He walks around the ravine aimlessly, but a sight makes him jump for joy.

20)The Light Dies Down on Broadway - Rael sees a window back home. Broadway. He sees all of the life he had before. This was his one chance to get out of theis crazy dimension. He takes off in a mad dash, but he hears some struggles in the water. It's his brother John. It's time to make a decision. To return to the freedom of his other life, or to save the brother that deserted him twice.

21)Riding The Scree - Rael sprints down the ravine towards the river and jumps into the rapids.

22)In the Rapids - As he swims through the rapids to save his brother, he dodges bolders and rocks, trying to stay in control. He knocks John unconsious to make the rescue easier, and drags him to the shore. "Hang on John!" he cries when they reach the shore. "We're almost out of this!" But then he notices that it isn't his brother's face he's looking at. It's his own!

23)it - As Rael's consiousness fades back and forth between the two bodies, they eventually merge into one, and Rael desolves into notheing, becoming it. it is everything. Broadway, the new dimesion, the universe, everything. Rael becomes one with time, space, and himself, and all is finally right with the world.

I thank you for reading this. I've tried my best to make sense of everything, but the instrumentals are still up for interpretation. I also recommend rereading the lyrics to the album after reading this. Everything will seem much clearer. Long Live Prog-Rock! ~Prog_head

• Great job, but as this falls under the classification of original research, it unfortunately can't stay in the article. If you or someone else can find verifiable sources that flesh out the plot points, by all means use those. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 21:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
• I cited the lyrics and short story written by Peter Gabriel that comes with the album. However, I see your point and understand. (I do strongly recommend you reading the booklet for the album, though) --Prog_head
• Well there are one or two studies about the album, and one of them (wich i find to be the most interesting)find the album to be an autobiographic take on Gabriel's life. Cos all in all, this is pretty much Gabriel's first solo album, in retrospective.

[edit] Brian Eno's contribution

I would take specific exception with the following from the "Detailed Description":

"The Waiting Room" is reminiscent of the sonic stylings of avant-garde producer Brian Eno (who contributed to the album's recording sessions, in return for Collins playing drums on Eno's Music for Films and Another Green World albums).

Another Green World was recorded in 1975 and Music for Films was recorded between 1975 and 1978. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was recorded in 1974. It is illogical to suggest that Eno's contibutions were 'in return for' Collins' contributions to recordings which had not only not yet occurred but hadn't even been planned. The mention of Collins' contributions to those two Eno albums is particularly silly given that Collins also contributed to Eno's Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy album which was recorded during the same time period that The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was recorded (Taking Tiger Mountain was recorded in September of 1974 while Lamb Lies Down was recorded between August and October of 1974). Also, lacking any direct evidence of quid pro quo between Eno and Collins, suggesting that one's contribution was done "in return for" another's seems a bit clumsy and unnecessary to me.

Yup, the swap was for Taking Tiger Mountain (both albums done at Island studios?)--feline1 09:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The majority of the music was recorded at Glosspant, a remote village in Wales, then mixed at Island, where Peter and Phil apparently recorded the vocals.--antster1983 00:54, 04 September 2006 (BST)

Eno on what he did on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "To be honest, I can't remember. It would have been treatments of some kind. I would take existing instruments and feed them through various devices to 'weird them up'. It wasn't something people were commonly doing then. Nobody does anything else now..." [1]

I think the "Detailed Description" section should be excised completely- like, seriously, "Like the Beatles' White Album, this double album gains in diversity what it loses in coherence, providing in fragments the various members of the band a chance to take risks, even if the final result is more like a quilt than a tapestry." That doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.

[edit] phil collins' vocals

i was listening to "lilywhite lilith" and thought, "man, peter gabriel sounds a lot like phil collins." but then, as i listened closer, i began to wonder if it was phil. the second part of the song, beginning at 1:45 is certainly peter, but before that it sure sounds like phil (or at least phil & peter). anyone know for sure? --Progjunky 10:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it. It's definitely Peter. Collins has never had a strong vocal in that range - he would have done some note skips during "I could only just hear some voice quite near, 'Please help me through the crowd." I believe the entire album is Gabriel + Gabriel overdub. Fantailfan 23:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

well, the whole album can't be peter, because phil is definitely singing solo for like 2 seconds during "The Colony Of Slipperman" (he sings the lines "now can't you see? where the raven flies there's jeopardy," and then later "some concern, ooh!"). after listening to "lilywhite lilith" with headphones, however, i'm starting to think it's peter + phil singing lead (with phil "ooh"-ing in the background). any other insights?

"Collins has never had a strong vocal in that range "

And your evidence for this is what fantail? Your personal opinion? Phil was more than capable...in fact he's hit similar ranges numerous times. I have examples if needed. Snowbound 22:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course it's personal opinion, based on having all Genesis' albums from 1969-1991 plus Archives 1, Gabriel's solo work 1976-2002 and Collins' first three solo albums. It seems to me that Collins' strong range starts higher than Gabriel's and is probably broader. On "Lilywhite Lilith," I firmly believe it's Gabriel+Gabriel overdub delay+Collins background. I wish I had more knowledge on vocal technique and style (or instrumental, for that matter), because I would be able to describe how Gabriel and Collins handle the same vocal, in technical terms.

One thing that I would like to know is whether anyone but Gabriel and Collins did vocals on Genesis in the studio or onstage (lead, backing or otherwise). Fantailfan 15:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Lamb Lies Down" or "Lamb Lies down"?

On 2 August 2006, User:Koavf moved this page from "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" to "The Lamb Lies down on Broadway". However, the text in the article continues to capitalize the "D" everywhere.

Which is correct? I have always seen it with a capital D. The original record sleeve uses all-capitals, but the name of the title track has a capital D, and the current CD booklet uses a capital D in the centerfold with all the albums listed.

I will move the page back unless there's a reason not to.... — Lawrence King ^(talk) 09:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: No one responded, and I discovered that User:Koavf has been banned from Wikipedia. So I moved the page back to "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" where it belongs. — Lawrence King ^(talk) 18:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Gilbert, Giraffe and The Lamb

So, I think - whoever written this - ment the programm Giraffe played during a ProgFest. Well, actually it was not the whole album played, but just some songs, to make the album 'fit' into one single LP or CD. I even got a recording of this evening and it's definitely NOT the whole album, which was played.