Talk:Thing (comics)

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Can someone say exactly *which* issue was this "recent issue" of FF?

(People, seriously, this is the second time I stumble over a "recently" just tonight... dates, folks, dates! Remember, this will be here in 10 and 20 and 100 years (one can hope ;-)) Jae 02:25, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)

I am fairly (but not completely) that the issue is #56 (of the series started in 1997). Here is the MHC link - http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=30933846944%2056 Luis Dantas 06:36, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Yup. - SoM 19:28, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

To say nothing of "recent interviews." Kirby's been dead for some time, so they can't be that recent. Snowspinner Apr 18, 2004

Contents 1 Ben Grimm's Jewishness? 2 Wolverine vs. The Thing 3 strength level 4 House of M 5 "The Amazing Guys" 6 Height 7 Powers and Abilities 8 Character background 9 Blackbeard 10 Blurred Picture 11 Speed 12 Protection 13 Publication history

[edit] Ben Grimm's Jewishness?

Is Ben Grimm's Jewishness religious or cultural? 惑乱 分からん 19:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Or racial, for that matter.

See this quite enlightening article on this very topic: Beliefnet: "Comic Faith: The Thing's Religion Revealed" (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/113/story_11303_1.html) -- Jalabi99 03:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

He's Jewish in every sense of the word, but not very devout or pious. As he's leaving the USA because of the Civil War, will he go to Israel? Spider-man once teamed up with Israeli agents. Das Baz 20:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Sue Richards and her brother Johnny Storm have also left Reed (Civil War #4)and have joined the Rebels. Reed is left all alone of the group. Will he recruit three replacements or go solo? Das Baz 15:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Instead of going to Israel, Ben decided to move to Paris, France. He's Jewish, but no Zionist. Das Baz 17:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I guess it is a good thing that the mutations are due to an accident. Otherwise they would have needed a belt sander for the bris. Sorry. I could not resist. Slavlin 22:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wolverine vs. The Thing

I seem to recall an old comic, back during the 1990's, where the two heroes did battle. It ended with Grimm's face being horribly disfigured, forcing him to wear an iron mask for some time. I don't recall how this eventually reversed or what more happened in this situation. Can anyone provide comic information or details for a possible Wiki inclusion? --AWF

Uhmmm, The Thing isn't exactly a supermodel to start with. That "Iron mask" thing sounds more like Doctor Doom to me, but I'm passing on the request... 惑乱 分からん 22:48, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't remember enough about it to write up personally, but I DO know what you're talking about. For some reason they fought, and Logan entered a berserker fury and slashed him full force across the face, drawing deep furrows across his face. That's why he wore the iron mask for a time. His face may not win any prizes now, but the injury was pretty bad and he looked worse than normal. I remember most clearly that Logan snapped out of it and tried to see if he was ok, and Ben backhanded him through one or two buildings. Onikage725 14:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] strength level

I remember seeing the things stregnth level to be Class 85 - the ability to press 85 tons. The page says 100 but i am not 100% sure.

The Thing can't lift in excess of 100 tons. I'm about to look over the powers and abilities section to see just how much in there is opinion and how much is actual accepted canon. Officially, he can lift 85 tons. Odin's Beard

Doesn't he have a 100 ton training weight?

I dunno about the 100 ton training weight, it's possible. But, according to everything I've read, the Thing can lift, lift as in military press, about 85 tons. Now, as far as bench press goes, I'm sure he could bench press over 100 tons. But, since Marvel measures strength by the amount of weight a character can lift above his or her head with their arms fully extended, hence military press, I'm going by 85 tons. I think that the Ultimate Thing is listed at being able to lift in excess of 100 tons. Odin's Beard

Yeah that's true, they do. I remember the old compendiums measuring in terms of "lift/press." Onikage725 01:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

In the article, it's been mentioned that the Thing has been seen to lift weights greater than 100 tons while exercising. How was he lifting the weight? Was it military press, squat, bench press or what?Odin's Beard 00:29, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is the 100 ton level again listed? As of 2005 Marvel still puts his strength level at 85 tons. Am I missing something? Scrapper 19:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)Scrapper

I've removed this sentence: "Through, more intense training, The Thing is now capable of lifting roughly 100 tons over his head." It seems to be controversial so I suggest that it remain deleted unless a solid source can be provided for it. Metamagician3000 04:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House of M

Shouldn't something be written about the House of M in the alternat versions section. I personaly do not know what happened, but I'm sure something must have. Can someone please write something about the House of M.

[edit] "The Amazing Guys"

Is there any kind of verification or proof to back up this section? It sounds silly and makes me wonder if someone's playing a joke. I'd like to delete it if no one can provide references to it actually exisiting. Sprngpilot 00:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm suspicious of it as well. I've never heard of it, and it sounds like something that would be well known considering all of the various characters involved with it. It's not a video game, I'm pretty sure that it's not an animated show, and I don't believe it's a comic. I think it's bogus. I'm deleting it until it's validity can be verified. Odin's Beard 00:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Height

How tall is Thing? Son of Kong

Depends upon which version of the Thing you're curious about. In the Earth-616 continuity, which is the maintream Marvel Universe, he's 6'0" and weighs 500 pounds. The Ultimate Marvel version of Ben is 7'5" and weighs 1,650 pounds. Odin's Beard 00:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Powers and Abilities

I did a rewrite for the P and A section. I thought it looked familiar and I found an old issue of the OHOTMU the other night. The previous writing of the section, at least the vast majority of it, was taken word for word out of the OHOTMU. I also removed some info that sounded very much like POV. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, and if I have then I apologize in advance. I'm no expert on Wikipedia's policies, sometimes they're a pain, but I'm pretty sure that POV and stuff taken right out of the OHOTMU is prohibited from inclusion. Odin's Beard 00:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character background

This needs to be incorporated into the article, which only relates the current version of his story: Fantastic Four #11 (Feb, 1963) has the characters narrating their pre-cosmic ray-ified lives "to the fans" in a sequence that seems to break the fourth wall—Ben and Reed first meet as roommates at "State U," which Ben attended on a football scholarship and went "All-American" (whatever that means, football fans). Shortly after graduation, Ben becomes a "Marine fighter ace" during WWII, flying over Okinawa and Guadalcanal. Reed says "You were the hero of every American who could read a paper, Ben!" Reed is depicted as an OSS officer on the front lines during the war, btw, thinking of Sue at home. This might be trivia for a footnote depending on how quickly they changed all this (probably quickly, because either Sue was pushing forty in '63, or Reed coped with his front line duties through pedophiliac fantasies), but it needs to be documented as part of the character's history. Postdlf 03:34, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 09:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blackbeard

Blackbeard the pirate? Is that for real? --KeypadSDM 13:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is actually. I remember reading something about it, maybe out of an old OHOTMU entry. I'm not really familiar with the storyline, but it involved time travel and all that kind of stuff. Odin's Beard 00:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It happened in Fantastic Four #5 (http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/ff/ff005.html). Dr. Doom takes Sue hostage and sends the rest of the FF back in time to retrieve Blackbeard's treasure. Disguised in a black beard and eye patch Ben inadvertently becomes Blackbeard. It's really actually very silly and was re-told in the first cartoon series, abliet with Herbie. --AGiES001 15:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blurred Picture

What is with the picture from the 2006 animated series? If we need a picture from that cartoon shouldn't we get one that's a bit more focused? The one we have now is much to blurry to work effectively for this article. --208.127.64.127 19:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speed

Ok I would like to put to rest this argument over the Thing having superhuman speed. Personally I agree that Ben Grimm has superhuman speed, just obviously not in the league of beings such as Quicksilver or Flash. His combination of superhuman stamina and endurance show this.

It appears to me to be mostly anon users who continue to change the hero box over this. Unfornunetly on that side I havent seen a very good argument to for there support. My assumption is that they see the Thing as being big and heavy and think of Quicksilver or the like and think that the speed cant be right.

If we can come to an agreement and maybe make a note for future reference it maybe will make things easier. Just an idea. Thefro552 21:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I believe that there are some editors that are judging the Thing's speed by comparing him with characters that are well known for their primary superhuman ability being superhuman speed. Just because the Thing isn't portrayed at being able to move so quickly that he appears as a blur means nothing. For instance, say for the sake of argument that the fastest that the finest human athlete can run is 35 miles per hour, in the Marvel Universe. If the Thing is able to run faster than that, then he is superhumanly fast. Doesn't matter if he can run 40 mph or 400 mph because the issue isn't whether or not he's a world class speedster. In the original versions of the OHOTMU, his speed is listed as "Enhanced Human", which is considered a lower level of superhuman. Even though OHOTMU stats are against policy, the information provided on the character regarding his powers can't be ignored simply because it might conflict with someone's personal interpretation of a character. If there's a canon source that retcons the Thing's speed, providing it will end the conflict altogether. However, constantly removing it from the superhero box without any explanation just looks like POV. Odin's Beard 00:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

But guys I have an old comic where Spider-man and The Thing team up. They are chasing a magician through Central Park, and Spidey goes, "Come on Ben, hurry up". The Thing is lumbering behind and he yells out to Spidey "Alright already, this chassis aint' exactly built for speed you know". Now personally I don't really care what's put up there, but I will admit the constant changing back and forth is getting annoying. I've only added video game tidbits to that page, but it seems every day there is a change with people adding and removing the word 'speed".Giantdevilfish 01:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Was the comic published before or after the first version of the OHOTMU was published? If it was published before, then the addition of the Thing's speed was probably retconned. If it was published afterward, then it could be an example of the OHOTMU's claim being retconned.Odin's Beard 01:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the OHOTMU is, but this is the comic I'm talking about. http://www.samruby.com/OtherTitles/FantasticFour/marveltwoinone090.htm Giantdevilfish 01:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The OHOTMU is short for the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. Wikipedia has an article on it. Basically, it provides much of the same information as Wikipedia does. All of the general info on the characters can be pieced together from all the various regular monthly comics that Marvel has put out over the decades. However, included in the OHOTMU are vital statistics and various stats used to measure a character's physical, mental, and energy manipulative capabilities. These stats are found only within the OHOTMU or by other publications with Marvel's permission. We don't include the vital or power stats in the article because they'd be taken directly from the OHOTMU, which violates copyright. Even if someone saw them on a website and decided to add them, then whoever placed them on the website would have gotten them from the OHOTMU to begin with. Anyhow, sorry I've rambled on. The Thing is listed in Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe as possessing some degree of superhuman speed. It doesn't specify the exact level, only that he possesses it. Odin's Beard 00:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Giantdevilfish, you do provide a good source, but I think Ben's statement needs to be taken in context. He could simply mean that he can't keep up with Spidey. I'd like to see a citation that clearly says he's moving faster than a normal human or, alternatively, one saying he can't. Since this is comics, I wouldn't be surprised if both exist :) CovenantD 20:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Ehh, if the OHOTMU says it, okay, that's one thing (I'll believe it when I see it, btw...I have to track that down). But as a lifelong FF reader approaching middle-age, I can't think of a single instance where Ben Grimm is clearly moving, or is said to be moving, appreciably faster than a normal human being. Ford MF 21:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

Given the amount of vandalism that occurs in this article, some protection is certainly required. Most of the vandalism is committed by anonymous users that couldn't care less about Wikipedia policy and insist on having the article reflect their own personal view and interpretation of the character, which includes removing information without explanation or justification.Odin's Beard 01:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the history, I do not see enough clear vandalism to justify protection. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 05:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Publication history

I think this more properly belongs after Powers and Abilities (i.e. right before Alternate versions). Right now it's the first thing you hit after the lead, and as such I think it's kind of misplaced. What should happen after the lead and table of contents is the Fictional character history.

Would anyone have any objections against me moving it? Or arguments for the soundness of its current placement? Ford MF 21:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, since this went a week without comment, I'm going to assume there are no arguments against and go ahead and move the section. Ford MF 07:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't particularly care where it's placed, but the consensus among other articles does seem to be: Publication history; Fictional character biography; Abilities and Equipment; etc. 204.153.84.10 13:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)