Talk:Toll road

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Archive I

Contents 1 Structure of article 2 Photo request 3 Proposed Merge to Road pricing 4 Proposed merge with Private road

[edit] Structure of article

This article has become too long. I would suggest that most of the USA section should be moved to a separate article on 'Turnpikes (USA)', leaving a relatively brief account of the subject here and a cross-reference. Similarly the section on the UK, which is largely historical and partly concerned with other issues of road maintenance would be better as a separate article Turnpike Roads (Britain). I have written a brief article, but the account fo the subject here is more detailed. Accordingly some fo the section here needs to be merged with that. I have not attached a merge templete to the section, because there seems to be a fault in Wiki at present. Peterkingiron 23:28, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

My article referred to appears to ahve got lost! Peterkingiron 21:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought the same thing. I've made a start on reducing the size of the article. So far I've split the US section into a new article, Toll roads in the United States. The article is still too big and overwhelmed by the National toll-road differences section. Maybe this whole section should be split out (leaving a summary). I'll continue to split the article up. Instead of picking through this talk page to split it accordingly I've archived the lot. The Talk page(s) of the new article(s) can link to this archive. Jimp 15:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've split the article up further into two more new articles: Toll roads in Europe and Toll roads around the World. Jimp 01:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo request

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

It would be cool to have an 1800s-era photo or illustration depicting an early turnpike. -- Beland 13:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Merge to Road pricing

Against - Egads no: they are nothing alike! I suspect this to be vandalism on the part of an anonymous contributor, particularly as he/she left no explanation of his/her intentions. I will remove this tag tomorrow barring any legitimate issues in support of a merge. --Thisisbossi 04:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism? No, not at all, merely a legitimate but anonymous post. (Please Assume Good Faith, eh? - WP:AGF) I am honestly curious to know why you think these topics are different enough to justify separate articles. -- 201.50.248.179 14:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC) (I originally added the merge tag)

Something that possibly affects this discussion: In the U.S., the term "toll road" is used, however AFAIK the term "road pricing" is never used. As far as I can tell, both of these articles are discussing effectively identical subjects. I think we should merge them. If there is some difference, I think we sould clarify what it is for the Americans. Thanks for your consideration. -- 201.50.248.179 14:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the proposal to merge with Road pricing, and I accept the need to clarify the road pricing article to explain why it is different to toll roads. However, I cannot see the need to distinguish between private roads, private highways and toll roads. --RichardVeryard 16:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I most certainly disagree. There really is no point for the two articles to merge, if you think logically. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.236.104.36 (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

In order to get correct answers by thinking logically, one has to have adequate information to work with. To repeat, why do you, 24.236.104.36, think that these topics are different enough to justify separate articles? Thanks for your help. -- 201.50.248.179 10:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I have now amended the Road pricing article to make clear that the topic of road pricing is not restricted to toll roads. In Europe, most of the current debate is about charging for road usage across an entire zone. --RichardVeryard 14:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Against merger - Clearly the subjects are related. That does not justify merger as they are also different, a toll road is a type of road pricing, is generally used for financing rather than management. The articles should have appropriate discussion of similarities and differences. dml 19:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

(response copied from Road Pricing talk page) Sorry, but I am extremely wary of such merge tags given the circumstances of the tags insertion. Thank you for your explanation. You may wish to register with Wikipedia so that such a misinterpretation of your intentions does not happen again -- anonymous posters tend to have some bad connotations.

Toll roads are a form of road pricing, but road pricing is not specifically a tolled roadway -- a similar relationship could be that a square is a rectangle, but not vice-versa. There are numerous types of road pricing schemes that would not naturally fit into a "toll road" classification. One such example would be the aforementioned congestion pricing. --Thisisbossi 03:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Against -- as per previous discussions. A toll road is a type of road, whereas road pricing is more of a concept. This would appear to be another example of an unnecessary merge. Incidentally, the merge banners were place on 9th Feb and it will be possible to remove them at the end of the week, since the concensus would appear to be 'against merge'. -- EdJogg 13:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Against -- Again, they are nothing alike. Road Pricing is the idea of pricing the road at certain times, or for certain features, as per say, possibly in the case of California State Route 91. Rmsuperstar99 01:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge with Private road

• as strongly opposed as one can be I live on a private road that is, in no way, shape, or form, a toll road. Such private roads are very common in rural areas. i kan reed 20:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
• Against because the two articles and subjects are nothing alike. --Thisisbossi 01:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
• I accept that not all private roads are toll roads. The problem I'm having is that based on the definitions in the articles I can't see the difference between Private road and Private highway, and I also can't see the difference between Private highway and Toll road. There may be an argument for two (improved) articles here, but surely there is no need for three. --RichardVeryard 02:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • A tolled road can be publicly or privately maintained. A private road is privately-maintained, but is rarely tolled today (though in the earlier days of the automobile, such private tolls were commonplace). Private highways are the increasing trend of leasing publicly-maintained highways to private entities through a contractual agreement -- these are often tolled, but not all toll roads are not private. I cannot recall at the moment if the articles indicate these differences or offer some alternative viewpoints, but I'll see if I can clarify each article whenever I get a chance to do so. --Thisisbossi 04:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Against -- as per Thisisbossi. Another unnecessary merge request. In particular, Toll road and Private highway are both large articles already, and benefit from being kept separate. --EdJogg 13:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Very Against as the first person said, usually, private roads are not toll roads. In northwestern Maine, there are many long, gravel private roads that are not tolled. (The only tolls in the state are on or around the Maine Turnpike). Rmsuperstar99 01:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)