Talk:Tomorrow series

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Contents 1 Time/Date setting 2 Category: Children's book/series? 3 Logic? 4 critics 5 HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MOTHER A TROLL! 6 RNZAF 7 How could we be invaded if we have JORN 8 copyright infringement 9 Baby, Pram, etc. 10 Criticsm 11 More spoiler-free material

[edit] Time/Date setting

The original book was published and set (i assume) in 1994 with the kids being around 15/16 and year 10/11 at school. but i just finished reading circle of flight and it is CLEARLY set in 2006/07 with ellie still not having finished high school, and still only being 17. anyways just thought id point it out. 219.90.144.242 02:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It states in The Other Side of Dawn that Ellie and the other characters would go through a special education program for children whose studies were disrupted by the war. Not sure about the age thing though. --Scottie theNerd 03:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

well she has to be 17 because she is still a minor in the eyes of the courts thats why she has so much trouble getting authority over gavin.

Yes, and I believe it states that she is 17 in Circle of Flight (couldn't be bothered finding it but I believe it's in there somewhere). As to the original point, I agree, in Circle of Flight there are mentions of iPods and a few other things that have only been in existence in the past few years.

[edit] Category: Children's book/series?

Looking at some of the other articles in the category, the Tomorrow series doesn't seem to fit specifically into that category. The series is more geared towards young adult and younger readers, but I wouldn't exactly compare a story of war and death with, say, the Magic School Bus. --Scottie theNerd 16:36, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

There's a proposal boiling right now to rename the varied children's books categories to children's and young adult books categories, because of the difficulty in drawing that line. Right now most of the books in there are for younger children, although the category also contains the Gossip Girls, and the Song of the Lioness series (that begins when Alanna is 10, and continues until she's a serially monogamous sexually active woman). And there are certainly plenty of young adult, middle readers, and even books for younger children that are stories of war and death. Deborah-jl _Talk 18:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

"Returning to Hell, they explore the surrounding bush further and discover another group of partisans led by Major Harvey, an officer of the Australian Army Reserve."

Incorrect, firstly it is stated that Major Harvey was formerley in the Reserves, many years ago, and secondly it never mentioned he was an Officer.

If he is a Major, he must have been an officer.

It is also established in the series that his rank while in the Army Reserves was not a Major at all. Synystar 12:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Logic?

If the group had a radio that could pick up broadcasts form anywhwere in the World, why did they only use it once? Logic anyone?

If you've actually read the book, you might recall that the kids didn't realise its capability until right before it ran out of batteries. --Scottie theNerd 08:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh thats likely. And why didnt they THROUGHT THE WHOLE BOOK(S) find/get/steal anymore? How can no one understand any language that the ememy solders are speaking? Fiona is speaks like 5 different languages? How do detailed Sex scenes enrich the minds of young readers?

First of all, if Fiona speaks five different languages, what languages would you expect those to be? Oh, the usual of course. She definitely speaks Persian, a little bit of Pashto, she's very familiar with Indonesian, she loves Mandarin, and Thai is the best language in the world to her—yeah right. It was obvious that a European country was not the aggressor in the book, and I doubt any of those languages would be the ones she spoke. Does it not appear more likely she would speak Spanish, French, or Italian? I don't think they offer all those languages out in Australian high schools and she certainly didn't take trips to those countries, learn them for the fun of it, and come back. And I don't remember anything about the sex scene being designed to enrich the minds of young readers. By the time the kid is reading that, it's too late. Stop acting like reading about sex is going to corrupt the kid because it won't. If the kid is reading it, the parents aren't previewing it, and the kid is overly into a scene that wasn't even all that erotic, something is wrong at home. Don't blame the breakdown of the Western family unit on a book for young adults. If it is for a young adult, by age 13 the kid should be mature enough to read about sex without emitting even a single chuckle. If they can't contact their school to learn about their sex education program and stop complaining. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.35.11.39 (talk)

yes i agree. i am sure they could of got batteries somewhere why didnt they just get them from some house. Unless they didnt want to know why there country had been invaded and what is happening. Who wouldnt want to know. not them!. (i think they were to busy repopulating the australian race if you hear me loud and clear)

I think the book also trys to teach people to hate america and portrays them as fat, evil liars that refuse to help us but in truth i am sure they would as we are one of their closet and most loyal allies in the war against terror.

its evil. evil i tells you

F 22 06:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That's wonderful. However, that has nothing to do with the article. If you have nothing relevant to add to the article, then please leave the article and its talk page alone. This is not the place to throw your opinion. --Scottie theNerd 08:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And how are your comments relevant to this encyclopaedia article?

They did get supplied with radios by the New Zealand SAS. What are you on about? --Scottie theNerd 17:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] critics

It's been a while since I've contributed anything to this article, my last additions being the "tomorrow movies" part and the "chief characters" thing. I want to draft a new section, something like "critical reaction". If anyone knows of any reviews of the series, specifically the first book, could you please post it here?

Here:

Tomorrow When the War Began (1993) By John Marsden is without question the worst piece of fiction I have ever had the unfortunate chance of reading. The storyline is nonsensical and the plot is scripted like an episode of McLeod’s Daughters. The book would be “frighteningly real” as is stated on the front cover, but the problem is, this is Earth. I may yet write to Mr. Marsden asking why he has seen fit to poison a generation of young and impressionable Australians. The events that take place in the novel are impossible for many reasons: How could a "non-specific" country invade Australia in a week? There would need to be a massive supply chain already in place, and an impossibly large number of men and recourses committed to the task. Training schedules would have to be stepped up, vehicles put in for maintenance, and someone would notice the preparation for a full-scale invasion, as things like that never go unnoticed. Secondly, for the "non-specific" country to have aircraft and aerial capabilities they would need to have a Fleet of Aircraft carriers, which are both huge, expensive, and extremely powerful, how could someone not notice something like that moving at a country? Who doesn’t have radar? Not even the Eskimos! Also in the later books, the New Zealand Air force comes to Australians aid. How? Their air force is a man with a rake! They have only Heavy-lift aircraft and small helicopters. How could these launch an offensive strike from hundreds of kilometers away? The most valid piece of evidence against this book is the existence of the ANZUS treaty, which ensures the United States Defense force comes to our aid in the event of an invasion/conflict.

Dfrg.msc 08:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You sounded like you knew what you were talking about until you got to calling the U.S. Armed Forces the "U.S. Defense Forces". And what sense does it make to put the vehicles in for maintenance for an invasion? They should already be ready to go in the event that the non-specific country was attacked by an aggressor. Everything else made sense though.

I don't see how this one can fit it. It's simply a troll review. --Scottie theNerd 08:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HOW DARE YOU CALL MY MOTHER A TROLL!

Yes those Trolls writimg their reviews. I will have to write to the Board of Fictious and Mythical creatures and aske them to geet their review writing trolls in order.

Owned. With a three? OWN3D!? Dfrg.msc 08:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

"The enemy soldiers in the Tomorrow Series is merely a plot device the author uses to explore the relationships and personalities of the characters; they are a blank and unimportant template like the aliens in Independence Day." Someone else said that, I forget who, but it sums it up perfectly. If you're going to quibble over minor details, you obviously missed the point of the books. Battle Ape 17:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

"Someone else said that, I forget who"

might have been richard simpson on his excellent tomorrow page. Flage 07:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RNZAF

How the HELL could these:

   * Six P-3K Orions are operated in the maritime patrol mission. Five were originally delivered in 1966 as P-3Bs. Another was purchased from the RAAF in 1985, following which all were upgraded to their current standard.
   * Five SH-2G(NZ) Seasprites were purchased in 1997 for operation from the RNZN's new Anzac class frigates. Although these are navy aircraft, they are operated and maintained by the RNZAF.
   * Three Beech Kingair B200 were leased by the RNZAF in 1998, with a further two leased in 2000. These are used in the multi-engined training role.
   * Two Boeing 757-200s are operated in the fast air transport role.
   * Five C-130H Hercules are operated in the air transport role. Three were delivered in 1966, with a further two in 1969.
   * The UH-1H Iroquois is currently the most numerous operational aircraft in the RNZAF inventory, with 14 units in service.
   * 13 Pacific Aerospace CT-4E Airtrainers were leased by the RNZAF in 1998 to serve as the air force's basic flying trainer.
   * Five Bell 47 Sioux are in service as basic helicopter trainers.

Launch an offencive strike on forces on Australias mainland? Tell me How Damit!

Also ,in 2001 the Labour Government, citing a benign security environment, cancelled the purchase of 28 Block 15 F-16 Fighting Falcon fighters, and disbanded the existing A-4 Skyhawk and Aermacchi MB-339 squadrons. One of the units disbanded included the famous No. 75 Squadron, an ex New Zealand squadron unit in the Royal Air Force that transferred to the RNZAF due to that unit's meritorious service during World War II and last flew A-4 Skyhawk fighter bombers. The other disbanded squadrons were No. 2 Squadron flying A-4 Skyhawks and No. 14 Squadron flying Aermacchi MB-339CB aircraft.

HOW!!?

Dfrg.msc 08:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

 i think it says somewhere in the first few books that the Kiwis are being supplied by the USA

[edit] How could we be invaded if we have JORN

The Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) is an over-the-horizon radar network that can monitor air and sea movements across 37,000km2. It has an official range of 3,000 km but depending upon certain atmospheric conditions has a range up to and including the Korean peninsula. It is used in the defence of Australia and can also monitor maritime operations, wave heights and wind directions.

The system allows the Australian Defence Force to observe all air and sea activity north of Australia to distances of 3000km. This encompasses all of Java, Irian Jaya, Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands, and halfway across the Indian Ocean.

significant use of the JORN is the detection of boats landing on the northern shores of Australia.

How could we be invaded if we have such powerful radars that dectect it coming, such as JORN explain that!

F 22 06:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Too right Mate! Another gaping inconsistency in the plot! Woo hooo! Bing bing bing! Another 10 points!

Fiction or absurdity? It's like mouldy bread to a hungry person. Are you hungry? Dfrg.msc 06:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's how--Bigkev 10:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] copyright infringement

i'm fairly sure the entire plot summaries section is plagiarised from 'the tomorrow series web companion'. i haven't got a link to the site right now, and i won't tag it for copyvio because it's very possible the owner of this information put it up. did whoever put it up have permission. if not can someone obtain it or else rewrite the summaries. i may or may not draft a rewrite of the summaries: otherwise they should be deleted.Flage 07:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I wrote all the plot summaries from my own memory (I may not have been logged in at the time, though; can't remember.) I don't think I used the "web companion", though. In fact I'm not sure I've even heard of it. Battle Ape 12:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baby, Pram, etc.

Could I suggest to all editors and people commenting on this article to keep in mind that it is fiction and, as such, the author was quite entitled to make their own decisions about what was or was not possible and what the reactions of others may or many not have been. Please be civil to other users but also refrain from posting edits unrelated to improving the article. Thankyou! --AlisonW 16:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

It's called artistic license, people. Get over it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.35.11.39 (talk)

It wasn't so bad before the talk page got vandalised. Flage 08:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticsm

I havent read any of these books but could you write a criticsm section both literary if there is any. and if there is any weight to the invasion like why they could be invaded I mean really Australia is an island you would find any ships that would be comming months ahead of time and the only logical invasion would be from Indonsia. Jamhaw 20:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)jamhaw

Oh don't join in with the trolling too. Criticisms are based on literary style, not on content unless outrageous. A fictional invasion by a fictional (and unidentified) enemy is hardly grounds for criticism unless you really want to hate the series. It's a plot device, and as far as I'm concerned, it's a very effective plot device in order to emphasise character development. This is a story about individual survival, not global conflict. --Scottie theNerd 22:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Look scottie you have no idea do you. The entire plot is circled around the invasion otherwise it would be 200 pages of hard core sex, orgys and nudity with nothing else. The book is about war not them having some picnic in the bush.

I keep asking you this but you never answer. How could this invasion happen?

PS Why is there a critical reaction part on the page but is is full of nothing but good. Isnt that a bias? I suggest putting in a plot holes section or criticisms part(with WP: NPV).

KRANDOR!? F 22 09:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Again, stop dragging your displeasure of the story into this Talk page. You've been blocked once before, and it would behove you to drop this issue before the administrators take more decisive action against you. If you have nothing constructive to add to the article itself, keep your opinions to yourself. Just because you can't draw a direct line to current-day politics doesn't mean it's a plothole. As for criticisms, see above: if there's a professional, documented source you have, feel free to cite it. Do not throw in your own opinion. You haven't asked me anything, and I do not intend to play along with your game. Either you edit, or your leave this page alone.

And in case you've forgotten, the Tomorrow series is about survival, not war. --Scottie theNerd 14:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The critical reaction page is "full of nothing but good" because there weren't any reliable sources that could be cited. As you can see, the "critical reaction" section is clearly a work in progress, at the moment, unless someones edited it, there is only a short list of some of the awards. Awards a good because they are a documented source and they allow for a quantative assessment. A critiscism, especially one sourced to a book review on Amazon or a MySpace page, is subjective anyway and unless it's from a professional, it's pretty much original research. Especially if you wrote it. Flage 08:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Why doesn't someone just block this dumbass? Battle Ape 07:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Because the process isn't that simple. Please refer to this page for details and more. --Scottie theNerd 09:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More spoiler-free material

Any ideas?Flage 03:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It's hard not to include some form of spoiler material once you've read the entire series. It's a good idea but somewhat unrealistic. The books tend to merge together in your mind ~Sushi 10:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)