Talk:Treaty of Accession 2005
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[edit] References
I have added references and links to almost all parliamentary results. In all cases possible I have used primary data from the parliaments themselves. In some cases in order to understand the result (record of the sitting) one needs to know some details on the specific parliamentary procedures. They differ, but it will take ages to describe them all here. In addition I have checked the number of members of parliaments present on each voting, whenever it is possible. As of 19th December 2006 all links are active with the following exceptions:
1. Dutch Chamber of the Deputies. In this case the document from the plenary vote (it took place seven days after the debate) is found via Parlando (the search engine for Dutch government documents). It can not be linked (at least by me), because the link is dynamic, this is it depends of the search performed. I am trying to fix this. If the link does not work (which will be the case for the next few weeks I think) the document you look for has ID HAN7948A11. It is published in Handelingen 2005-2006, nr. 46, Tweede Kamer, pages 3053-3053
2. Slovenian parliament. The link is generally active, but a bit erratic. It usually works, but their server is funny and sometimes it takes time (1-2 minutes to generate the page), sometimes it just does not connect. But as I said it is usually there.
So I expect soon after 1st January 2007 to have finished the “History of the Treaty” section, with verified and referenced information and running links. OK, that is it. If you have any questions ask.
Herzog Tryn 00:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Agreed without a division - what does it mean
I took the liberty to copy here a message from User:Dbiv from another's user talk page for clarification of a few cases of votes:
- For example, in the British House of Commons, the European Union (Accessions) Act 2005 approved the treaty. At no stage during its Parliamentary approval were there any votes on it: it was always approved on a 'voice vote' in which all the voices supported it. Therefore there are no numbers, and will never be any numbers in the future.
- The Austrian Parliament does things in a similar way. They raise their hands, and if the proposal has a clear majority, they simply note the number of members against without counting the much larger number who are for. Your insistence on putting in question marks is misleading - it implies that there is a number which has yet to be found and added. The real situation is that there is no number and never will be.
-Mihai -talk 11:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] European Parliament
I think European Parliament vote should not be in the table. They have no right so ever to vote such a treaty. They can only give assent Bulgaria and Romania to enter the Union. Then the counsil votes as well. This is very brief summary the procedure. The Treaty as such is between souvern states. So by very nature EU has little rights there. In general it has s special status. So I remove the European parliament vote from the table, so it does not give a wrong impression that they have actually approaved or ratified the treaty. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.174.111.250 (talk • contribs) .
I see where your point of view is coming from but the vote was taken on the treaty and i think in the fullness of the encylopedia it should be included in the table.I also do not think that it gives the wrong impression because there aproval my only be ceremonial but it would be impossible for the treaty to proceed if the EU parliament rejected the treaty--Lucy-marie 15:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, its ok with me really. The results of the vote in the European parliament are shown earlier on the page. I can't agree that they actually voted on the Treaty. Although the treaty in reality is prepared by the institution of the European union, it is a treaty between 27 states. For this reason no official of the European union have signed it. I am not sure about this technicality, but it might be that the countries could have agreed even without refering to EU. For this reason I removed the vote of the European parliament, changed the section title to Ratification, re-ordered the countries according to the date of completion and made changes in the text. Now in the text there is an introduction to history of the treaty with the pre-liminary steps. Here in the discussion I made a proposal for the changes in the page. let me know what you think. Regards. Herzog Tryn 15:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Re-organization
As the treaty is going to enter into force on 1 January 2007, I think the page should be reorganized a bit. I think th efollowing sections might be good 1. Itroduction 2. Summary of the treaty and additional documents 3. History of the treaty, where the ratification table and other voting results will go. I will try to authenticate the vote results, using the data from individual parliaments, but it will take a bit. Please let me know what you think. Herzog Tryn 15:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I have started the reorganization of the page by adding references about the ratification procedure where ever possible. The section about the history of the treaty will be modified further considering that the treaty enters into force on 1st of January. I will as I am not an native English speaker and I do this in my free time (when I am pretty tired) it will be nice if you can check the language and style. Herzog Tryn 14:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
