Talk:Tristan und Isolde

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Something needs to be said about this opera's importance. It is a fact that Tristan und Isolde was the most discussed artwork of the 19th century and had an absoulutely revolutionary effect on the history of Western art. 21:02, 18 October 2005

I think this would be very worthwhile if you can find and quote supporting evidence for this claim. Tristan had a huge impact on western music, true - and I think this could be expanded upon. But did it influence other art forms, and if so, how? --Dogbertd 10:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Page move 2 Historic Recordings 3 Spoiler warning 4 Karajan 1952 performance 5 Contemporary Critics 6 Anecdote 7 Copyright violation?

[edit] Page move

This page appears to have been moved in contradiction to the policy Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). Hyacinth 21:42, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I don't really understand why someone has removed the Shepherd and Steersman from the cast list? They are usually cited in any cast list when you see T&I in the opera-house , and will also usually be included in the cast list for a CD recording. Unless there's a strong objection, I'm minded to put them back. Dogbertd

[edit] Historic Recordings

I added the reference to the Karl Elmendorff 1928 recording at Bayreuth. An interesting note: In 1929, when this album was released on phonographic records, it cost $28.50. In 2005, that is equivalent to $300. Heck, you can buy an iPod for that kind of money and, besides that, the same recording can be currently purchased on CD for $20. We live in fine times indeed to be able to enjoy this music without having to spend our life's savings.

This is the original review from the 1929 issue of Time Magazine:

TRISTAN UND ISOLDE, recorded at the 1928 Bayreuth Festival (Columbia, $28.50†)—Wagner's love opera recorded for the first time in accordance with sacred Bayreuth tradition. Able Karl Elmendorff conducts the Bayreuth orchestra; Nanny Larsen-Todsen, recent soprano of the Manhattan Metropolitan Opera, sings a clear, well-styled Isolde.

†Prices listed are for entire albums, which include several records. Where the price is not given, it is 75¢, standard rate for popular 10-inch records.

Dtaw2001 03:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler warning

I hardly think that an opera written over 150 years ago, based on a story known for hundreds of years prior to that requires a spoiler warning. Most of the other opera plots on Wikipedia do not include this spurious warning, and I don't see why Tristan und Isolde should have it. You would hardly be reading the plot if you were scared of finding out the ending! I have removed it (again) and will continue to do so unless I hear a good reason why it should be there. --Dogbertd 16:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Karajan 1952 performance

Sorry to be a bore about this, but Tristan und Isolde was not performed at the 1951 Bayreuth Festival (Der Ring and Parsifal were the only operas performed at the first post-war festival). It was performed 5 times at the 1952 festival, under the baton of Karajan, who refused to come back thereafter (Jochum conducted the 5 Tristan performances in 1953). I can cite several references for this (have a look at Frederick Spott's History of the Bayreuth festival), but mostly it's because the Orfeo recording I have - which is published in conjunction with the Bayreuth Festival - says quite clearly that the recording was made in 1952 and not 1951.--Dogbertd 20:20, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

There's also a link to a MIDI file of the Tristan chord on the Tristan chord main page... it might be a good idea to add that link here, but I don't know how to do it.

Done.--Dogbertd 15:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contemporary Critics

The first paragraphs mentions what 19th century critics thought about the work , shouldn't the article include what 20th century and contemporary critics thought.... if no one objects I will be adding those opinions.Amfortas 14:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Good idea: the more the merrier!--Dogbertd 15:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

• Ok , I'll start working on that... Amfortas 02:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anecdote

I recall hearing at a lecture on Tristan und Isolde that there was one performance in which the soprano singing Isolde "wore out three Tristans in a night" — that is, a different tenor sang Tristan in each act, so exhausting was the part. If anyone knows anything more about this anecdote (and has a reliable source for it) it might be worth adding to "Trivia". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation?

I think the synopsis sounds very familiar to me. Might it be taken word to word from liner notes of some CD release of the opera? Böhm's version had similar synopsis, I recall. Probably the same text appears elsewhere too. Can somebody check it? --128.214.205.4 15:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I made a special effort to rewrite what was (to me) an old-fashioned synopsis previously on this page ("the treacherous Melot" and so on). I can assure you I worked essentially from the original German libretto, and at no time did I crib from any liner notes or other version of the text, precisely because I wanted the Wikipedia version to be free of copyright issues. If you think I've stolen text from elsewhere, I'll be interested to see it, and will be happy to change it into a form of words that does not infringe anyone else's copyright. --Dogbertd 15:21, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I believe there's no problem. I just felt strongly that I had read the same text before. --128.214.205.4 13:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I know that there are other opera sites online which take their synopses directly from Wikipedia. Perhaps you saw it there. Incidentally, I checked the synopsis from the Bohm Tristan CDs, and it's nothing like mine, so at least there's no possibility I unconsciously used phrases I'd read elsewhere.--Dogbertd 15:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)