Talk:Tuareg

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This article is about a person, place, or concept whose name is originally rendered in the Berber script; however the article does not have that version of its name in the article's lead paragraph. Anyone who is knowledgeable enough with the original language is invited to assist in adding the Berber script. For more information, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Berber).

Contents 1 brought in material 2 anonymous additions 3 Map 4 Indigenous peoples category 5 Article Quality - Sub Standard & Tenditious 6 Targa 7 Social Stratification 8 White Guy 9 Dune 10 Ethnic classification 11 Gender roles 12 Occupations 13 Image 14 Population too low 15 Morocco and its Tuareg population 16 Citizenship 17 Cut potentially slanderous statement 18 The Salt Trade

[edit] brought in material

I've brought in material from the Italian and German and reorganized the article to follow Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic Groups Template. However, this still deserves a lot more work. -- Jmabel 03:07, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC) ...some of which I've now done. -- Jmabel 01:16, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] anonymous additions

Anonymous additions roughly 25-28 March 2004 look plausible, if sometimes ungrammatical, but no references are cited at all. I would expect this material is more accurate than not, but on a topic where there is much contradictory information on the web, this mass of information without citations worries me a little. -- Jmabel 00:33, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

In any case, I am going about cleaning it up grammatically, insofar as I can make sense of it. This article could really use a going-over by someone knowledgable, and this new material could use some decent citation of sources. -- Jmabel 23:53, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I have pulled the following out of the article, pending citation:

Important remark is to know that: Tamajaq, Tamasheq, Tamahaq, sometimes spelled Tamashek, all these are local names form the same Tuareg language. Therefore the Tuareg people are: Kel Tamajaq, Kel Tamasheq.., the ones who speak Tamajaq language.

Obviously, "Important remark is to know that" is not how an encyclopedia should read, but the reason I've pulled this is that there is no source cited and the generally reliable http://www.ethnologue.com seems to consider these distinct dialects. I do not know the facts of the matter, but would like to see a citation if an equivalent statement is to be restored to the article, contradicting ethnologue.com. -- Jmabel 00:09, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

They are mutually comprehensible; cf. Karl-G. Prasse, who regards them as a single language. However, while he is vastly more authoritative than the Ethnologue, there is no doubt room for dispute; there almost always is with distant dialects/closely related languages. - Mustafaa 00:13, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Map

I've created a map of the area where Tuaregs live. Sources are Sudlow 2001, Lhote 1984 en Bernus 1996. It is a beta version, please tell me what you think. - Mark Dingemanse (talk) 12:29, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'd recaption it as "areas where significant numbers of Tuaregs live"; I think it's useful, but the precise lines are liable to prove controversial. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:20, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

Indeed, my sources all differ from each other. That's why I hatched it and didn't give it an outline. As for the recaptioning, good idea. - Mark Dingemanse (talk) 20:47, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

(map is now in article) -- Jmabel | Talk 00:03, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Indigenous peoples category

I should like to add a few comments and references in support of my proposal to assign the category Category:Indigenous peoples (actually its appropriate regional sub-category) to this entry.

First of all, I acknowledge that the term indigenous peoples itself is open to a variety of interpretations, uses and misuses. However, there is a specific, well-documented and frequent usage intended here, and I have attempted to circumvent some of this confusion at some indigenous-related pages - please refer to these:

• Firstly, at the main indigenous peoples article itself, by explicitly refining and correlating the definition to those documented by recognised international bodies, governments and indigenous representatives;
• Secondly, at the Category:Indigenous peoples page, where I have attempted to define just what is meant by the category, reasons why the category can be considered a valid one, and proposed criteria by which to ascertain potential members of the category. See in particular the Category talk:Indigenous peoples page for a more complete exposition.

Without fully recounting these, the notion and term indigenous peoples has a valid, contemporary usage in national and trans-national social, academic and political contexts. As such, it is a notable feature of human society, study and politics, and therefore worthy of encyclopaedic mention in Wikipedia, particularly insofar as it can add to the overall understanding of a relevant people, state, event, and history. Many different groups are identified or seek to be identified as indigenous (or some other locally-used cognate term), many publications and studies concern themselves with indigenous issues, and many governments acknowledge (even if partially) or are under persuasion to acknowledge the indigenous identity and claims of some of their peoples in their legal and regulatory instruments.

This is not to say that all such claims are equally recognised, universally held or supported. Even so, where substantiated (ie, noted in independent sources) claims are made but disputed by some other sector of the population or government in question, they may still rightly be noted in WP. It is also somewhat irrelevant what one's own views may be on the validity or otherwise of a people's indigenous status - what matters is whether in the "real world" this debate takes place or not, and where events and entities in the real world concern indigenous affairs, WP may cover this - under its NPOV & other guidelines, of course.

The utility of having a category on indigenous peoples is that it is a method which will facilitate comparative study between and of the various peoples for whom the claim to indigenous status is made. Of course, not every single ethnicity or ethno-stub will warrant such a claim; indigenous peoples are rather a subset of ethnic groups if you like, and categorisation as indigenous will not interfere with any other category scheme, but rather complement them. Note in particular that indigenous does not mean the very first peoples who inhabited a land, but rather that the peoples' current context and relation to the wider society means that they, organisations and perhaps governments are motivated to assert their rights to practise and observe at least some of their own ways and traditions in their territories, without being totally subsumed into an overall, externally-imposed identity.

Now, as per the criteria documented on the Category page, to overcome difficulties and POV-based judgements on whether or not any particular group ought to be associated with an indigenous status, it should be necessary to seek and provide external and notable references to demonstrate that indigenous affairs and issues play at least a part in that group's status and interactions. In the case of the Tuareg, these are the references I used:

• Indigenous Peoples of Africa Coordinating Committee This recognised organisation of African indigenous peoples is active in coordinating issues for various groups, negotiating with governments, and the like. Tuareg individuals hold regional representative posts for the organisation. In its section on West Africa, they note:
  • Groups claiming indigenous status include the Tuareg, Bororo, Wodaabe, Tubu (Teda and Daza) and Mbororo...The claim for collective rights as indigenous peoples arises from the marginalisation of Saharan nomads, first under colonialism and then later by independent states, all of which are dominated by sedentary agricultural peoples living in the South...Following a new census, Nigeriens are acknowledging that the Tuareg are the second largest ethnic group in the country. Niger conducted long delayed democratic elections in 2004. There are now Tuareg controlled councils in more than 10 communes. The challenge for Niger nomads and agricultural peoples is how to find common ground to work together...Tuareg nomads from Mali and Burkina participated in CIDA sponsored follow ups on the World Summit on the Information Society in Ottawa

• 2002 UN Report of the Special Rapporteur on indigenous issues. Tuareg and other west and north African peoples have made frequent representations to the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues (UNPFII), and other bodies. This is but one example, an extract from which reads:
  • ' Case 12. In several North African countries (mainly Algeria and Morocco), the Amazigh people (also referred to as Kabyles, Touareg and Berbers), who consider themselves as indigenous to these countries, have been asking for official recognition of their language, culture and identity, as well as the full enjoyment of their civil and political rights (Communications addressed to the Special Rapporteur, Geneva, July 2001). After a rebellion in 1990, which actually started in Niger, the Touareg of Mali entered into a peace treaty with the Government in 1991, followed by one in 1992, to allow them regional self-governance and internal democracy, enabling the Government to grant autonomy to the northern areas of the country occupied by the Touareg.
  • ' Case 13. While in Africa there is no consensus on the use of the term "indigenous", the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights has argued for the protection of the human rights of specific sectors of the population... The African Commission argued that "language is an integral part of the structure of culture; it in fact constitutes its pillar and means of expression par excellence. Its usage enriches the individual and enables him to take an active part in the community and in its activities. To deprive a man of such participation amounts to depriving him of his identity …".
• submission to 3rd Session of UNPFII from association of Amazigh organisations, which requested:
  • ...[intercession] with the governments of North Africa and the Sahel to bring them to respect the fundamental rights of the Amazigh indigenous people by acknowledging their identity and their culture, and to take constitutional and institutional responsibility for the Amazigh language as an official national language
  • ...[intercession] with the government of Algeria in order to put an end to the crisis in Kabylia, which has existed since April 2001, by undertaking the claims of the Kabyle popular movement, as well as those of the populations of the Touaregs and Aures regions
  • ...[intercession] with the governments of North Africa and the Sahel against forced settlements of the Tuareg people under the pretext of the fight against terrorism.
  • ...[intercession] with the governments of Niger to take necessary steps to ward off possible health risks of the Tuareg people caused by uranium operations at the Arlit mine.

There are a few others, but this will do for now. In short(!), I maintain that (a)indigenous peoples is a useful and valid category, and (b) the Tuareg warrant inclusion in this category.--cjllw | TALK 09:03, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

As a postscript, I will be away/offline the next few days, so will be happy to continue any discussion upon my return, probably sometime mid next week.--cjllw | TALK 09:17, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

OK. I'm still doubtful about a. - I regard this term's use in most contexts, especially that of the Tuareg, as essentially political propaganda, little different from the use of words like "terrorist" or "freedom fighter", both of which have widespread international usage - but I'll grant that you have established b. - Mustafaa 19:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Mustafaa , for your consideration on the matter. In further support of (a)category validity & usefulness, particularly in the African context: indeed, the concept and acceptance of identifying indigenous peoples in Africa is perhaps a recently-evolving one, only now taking shape and gaining support from African governments in the post-European colonial period. Only as recently as 2000, the African Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights (instituted by African heads of state under the auspices of the OAU and continued by its successor the African Union) adopted a resolution on the Rights of Indigenous Populations/Communities in Africa, and thereby set up (in 2001) a working group to study and report on African indigenous issues. This working group delivered its final report in May 2003, which was then adopted by this resolution in November 2003. The full report can be found here, and it is a quite detailed survey and exposition of indigenous affairs in a modern African context. Specific mention is made of the Tuareg people as indigenous in several places, such as on p.11:

• The Tuareg are part of the indigenous Amazigh peoples (generally known as 'Berbers') of North Africa. They mainly live in southern Algeria, northern Mali and Niger, with smaller pockets in Libya, Burkina Faso and Mauritania. Their precise numbers are not known and published figures range from 300,000 to 3 million. The southern Tuareg of Niger and Mali probably number around one million and 675,000 respectively. The northern Tuareg, who inhabit the regions of Ahaggar and Tassili-n-Ajjer in Algeria number some 25,000.

and on p.36, where the 1992 National Pact signed with the Tuareg in Mali is cited as a positive example of status recognition.

The African Commission being sponsored by all but one of the 54 African states may be considered to be representative of governmental support for the concept, even if its resolutions are not separately enforceable.

(Partial) governmental recognition of indigenous claim is also indicated by instruments such as Niger's Code Rural 1993, where land-use differentiation is made for pastoral/herder groups such as the Tuareg.

Now, whether or to what degree African states actually practise what they have signed up to in adopting the resolution, is another matter altogether- but at least nominally, the concept of particular African indigenous peoples is recognised, and an increasing feature of the political and social spheres. --cjllw | TALK 2005 June 29 03:30 (UTC)

[edit] Article Quality - Sub Standard & Tenditious

Reading over this article, this appears to be very shoddy work with quite loose characterisations. For example, the connexion between the Tuareg and Garamantes, while plausible, is hardly well established. The assertion of ancient caravan trade operations for 2 millenia is a gross exageration (as well as unattested to). The article in general is in now way up to enclyopedic standards or even general scholarly ones. I removed the false Arabic etymology with respect to the origin of the name, but am a loss as to where to start otherwise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.204.242.254 (talk • contribs) 24 Nov 2005.

For the record the "false Arabic etymology" removed was "Tuareg may have come from a Bedouin pronunciation of the Arabic Tawariq ("abandoned by God", singular Tarqi)," removed with the comment "I removed reference to the clearly false etymology of a Bedouine pronunciation of Taouruq in Arabic, the TRQ root has no abandonment meanings attached, confusion w TRK root." I don't know Arabic, so I have no independent judgment here, but at the very least this is a widely reported folk etymology, so it probably should be engaged even if only to give a scholarly citation as to why it is wrong.

I want to reiterate something I said before. "There is very contradictory information about the Tuareg to be found on the Internet and elsewhere. Please edit with more than the usual care, and more than the usual concern for citing sources." This is an article where we really need a lot more scholarship and citation. I myself simply don't know enough about this part of the world, or its languages, to bring anything to this besides process. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I was the editor on the false etymology. While your note is well taken (and frankly the article contains much rubbish that needs correcting), in re the Arabic, I can only cite to Arabic dictionaries. I gave the proper roots, the false etymology is quite clearly taken from confusion from non Arabic speakers between the TRK root and the TRQ root. There is really no "scholarship" to cite, it's basic knowledge of the language. Widely reported folk etymologies may be of interest, but in this case it's pure romantic illiteracy on the part of some Westerners. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Collounsbury (talk • contribs) 11 Dec 2005.

Explicit citation would be good, this is bound to resurface. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Well this is a bit like citing that Cat means Cat and not Dog, it really is that basic. But see The Hans Wehr (English or German) or any other standard Arabic reference dictionary for the TRK and TRQ roots. Afraid there is no way around knowing Arabic on this. The reason I made this change and not the multitude of other corrections that need to be done is I considered and consider it not worthy of citation. The article itself is complete rubbish full of romantic rubbish myths and the like, but I haven't the time or inclination to pull up proper sourcing and the like (which does NOT include the internet). The arty should be marked as tenditious or whatever you wiki people do to mark substandard entries.

I tried to re-write the most accepted etymology among linguists (twareg = arabic plural of targi, ethnic name from Targa, ancient toponym embracing (part of) Fezzan. Targa itself is a Berber word meaning "channel". The problem with the root TRQ comes from the rendering as "G" of arabic "Q" by nomad Arabs, but forms like Tawaariq are but "reconstructed" forms of a non-existent "classical" word. (Vermondo, Italy)

I can confirm that this is one of the etymologies commonly cited by linguists (the 'tawariq' one is widely known, but considered erratic). Trouble is that I don't have a recent published source available either, only an unpublished Tamasheq course by Maarten Kossmann (Leiden University). I suppose it doesn't help either that I heard him saying it. I'll look out for a citeable source. — mark ✎ 09:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Not sure I follow our Italian colleague's comment re 'reconstructed' but the note seems right, although should be edited for clarity. Perhaps I will later. (Collounsbury 02:22, 31 January 2006 (UTC)).

I found a source for the linguistic origin of Twareg in Heath (2005) A Grammar of Tamashek... em zilch 02:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I hve no clue about the meaning or the etymology of the word, but the end result is an article that looks a bit ridiculous. In one section, there is a whole discussion about the possible meaning and/or etymology of the word, and in the next section it is baldly stated that "Tuareg literally translates to "God's Abandoned"". This is not consistent. It reads as though there were several different people writing this, and they did not bother to read each other's writing (which is probably, in fact, what happened). Ifdef 20:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

That is the same in the article Tifinagh, although there are many theories on the origin of Tifinagh. The article referred to a site discussing it, and commented that there is no need to repeat that discussion in the page. And soon, they decided it's of Phoenician origin, and it means the "letters of the phoenicians".

About the name Twareg, i can ensure you that the humans get headache when seeing a word with an unknown meaning. And they began with interpretting it like all the words are interpretable including the dead words, although many living names are indeciphirable, and that is valid for "tifinagh", "tawareg". Best regards! Read3r 13:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I cannot find "tenditious" in any of my dictionaries, and assume "tendentious" is the word intended. Seasalt 13:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Targa

I've just put a small change in the phrase concerning Targa, after a control in de Foucauld's 4 volumes and Prasse's 2 volumes Tuareg dictionaries. As a matter of fact, Tuaregs call Targa the whole Fezzan, not justa a valley in it.

Just a question to those who spoke of Hassaniya Arabic apropos to the broken plural tawareg: are you sure it's Hassaniya? I think that such a plural could belong to any beduin Arabic dialect. I feel that the specification "Hassaniya" is superfluous and possibly mistaken.--Vermondo 13:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who speculated re Taouareq/g being a particularly "Hassaniyah" plural, it strikes me as rather typically Arabic. The "G" as "Q" is of course typical Bedouin dialect, but also crops up in Maghrebine Arabic dialects (some settled ones prob. from bedu origin). Maghrebi usage does seem to like the broken plural for "peoples" - for example Meghrariba instead of Maghribiyine, Touanisa / Twanisa for Tunisiyine, Msaroua/Msarwa for Misriyine, etc. ; I agree with you that specificying Hassaniya is definately superfluous and I would agree, probably mistaken. (collounsbury 15:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Social Stratification

I am removing the statement that suggests the early nineteenth-century French Army had automatic rifles. It displays a level of ignorance that must only be attainable through sheer force of will. Drogue 01:00, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The article specifies the French invasion as "early nineteenth century", but refers to two dates in the early twentieth. French colonization of North Africa did not really start until the late nineteenth century -- should this be changed to either late nineteenth or early twentieth century? tomh009 14:00, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

From Susan Arritt's The Living Earth Book of Deserts (1993, Reader's Digest): "Around the beginning of this century, they {the Tuareg} battled French colonists for control of their desert empire. In one of their final and largest encounters, in 1916, the Tuareg were subdued by the rapid-fire rifles of a French force near Oursi in present-day Burkina-Faso." Early twentieth century seems reasonable from this information. I'm at work right now, but I'll try to remember to make the edit when I get home. Lintilla 00:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White Guy

Alright, who put up the picture of the white guy dressed like a Tuareg on the front page? Knowing full well, most Tuareg look nothing like that...if you click on te pic you can even see that he has blue eyes!!! What a rip off!!!

• That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read! Have you ever seen a Tuareg? Tuaregs and Berbers can be light or dark skinned. Also, it is not uncommon to see blue or green eyes among some Berbers and some have blondish traits. They are a Mediterranean people just like Spaniards, Portuguese, Sicilians, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.214.80.107 (talk • contribs) 15 July 2006.

I suggest you ask User:Anthere who took the picture. —Khoikhoi 00:35, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

While most Tuareg are indeed darker, that is not to say all are dark. http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=47813&SelectRegion=West_Africa&SelectCountry=NIGER If you looked closely enough to notice eye color, then you can also see that the nose of the person in the current photo has been dyed blue by his tagelmust, which at the very least suggests he has been wearing it for a while. I would suggest using one of the other pictures, such as Targui7.jpg and/or Targui8.jpg along with the current one. It might stave off further argument, since the "color" of Tuareg and Berbers in general seems to be a very hot topic of argument, both in their native lands and on the internet. Dalrymple 00:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed there is a lot of debate regarding the race of North Africans. As someone who has been to Morocco I can say that the Berbers do tend to have a Mediterranean appearance and blue eyes do pop up. The Tuareg though, by virtue of living in the extreme south and interacting with Sub-Saharan peoples tend to not resemble the majority of Berbers, but there are exceptions across the board. There was a similar debate over at the Egypt page over an African looking Egyptian girl being included, which I think is fine since some Egyptians do look African, but not the majority. I agree with Dalrymple that one might as well add more pictures rather than deleting some so as to show the range rather than try to go a stereotype or prototype. Tombseye 02:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

This "White Guy" argument is nothing short of uninformed and, at worst, plain stupidity. My experience in Iraq has shown me the folly of characterizing a race or nationality by a single archetype. In Iraqi villages, I have met with Iraqi citizens with blue eyes, pale skin and red hair. Interested, I questioned regarding thier ethnicity and was surprised to discover that they considered themselves to be Arab. It forced me to re-evaluated the way I visualized the Iraqi people and, by extension, the world. There ARE white Arabs, there ARE dark-skinned Britons and there ARE blue-eyed Africans. Just because the picture does not reflect the majority doesn't mean it needs to be changed; however, a notation stating that the majority of the Tuareg do appear dark-skinned may be appropriate.

[edit] Dune

Is it possible to add a cultural refrence section here? Frank Herbert's Dune might be appropriate since FH's Fremen are said to be inspired by the Tuareg.. --V. Joe 16:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this would be a good piece of information to post on the Dune page (for many Dune fans would find this piece of information interesting), but I do not think it should be posted here... --(Mingus ah um 19:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Agree with Mingus ah um (I like your username, BTW!). — mark ✎ 20:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic classification

"...and that predominantly Middle Eastern and/or Indigenous African Tamasheq speakers qualify as "Tuareg"" I don't really like this wording, as it would almost seem to imply that Tuareg are not indigenous to Africa, and cause confusion. I think I would prefer it either be reverted, or changed in some way to make it more clear that by indeginous they are referring to the people who were in a specific region before the Tuareg. Dalrymple 08:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gender roles

I recently saw this TV documentation about Tuareg or lets say Imuhaq, and it mentioned quite a few interesting things about gender roles, like that a woman is looked at as not normal if she has the same lover over a long time, and that the women are not covering their faces while the men are, only the bride is allowed to see her husbands face, and more that was generally contrasting the usual islamic, christian or jewish habits/morals, (and that even though the Tuareg are also called muslims). To find out how much this documentation says the truth i tried to read here on Wikipedia, but i couldnt find much on the gender topic, maybe someone who know more likes to drop a few lines with sources. thanks,would be inetresting

Where/when (channel, time, nation of origin, etc) did you see this documentary? --(Mingus ah um 19:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC))

It seems that a lot of this is "common knowledge", however I too would like a good source, at least a name for this documentary, or more preferably a proper article in an accredited anthropological magazine or similar before making any changes to the article. -- Dalrymple 22:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I was looking for a good descreption for wikipedia's content, and you had already found it "common knowledge". That is maybe a perfect descreption for wikipedia [Britannica ..]'s content. Read3r 20:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Occupations

Someone removed "camel breeders" from the list of traditional occupations that some still practice. Was this wrong? or just an arbitrary deletion? I can't find an apparently relavant edit summary, and there have been a lot of edits since I last checked the article 2 months ago, so I don't know who did this. - Jmabel | Talk 00:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

---

I removed this following statement, because it is not accurate since it a public thought not a scholars's opinion, and furthermore, it can be undertaken in the "tifinagh-article" to give the other opionions: its origins may lie with the Punic script Read3r 19:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC) I also removed the words "midlle easter indegenous african [Tamasheq]", because it is misleading since there are no middle eastern tamasheq, and because there are no unindegenous or non-african tamasheq.Read3r 19:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Why the recent change of image in the Infobox? I preferred the other one. The new one is a bit intimidating. - Jmabel | Talk 02:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population too low

J'aimerai juste dire que la population touareg au Niger se compte en millions, contrairement à ce qui est écrit dans votre article. Je ne peux pas dire exactement combien, mais déjà les chiffre donnés par le gouvernement du Niger, qui eux même sont politisés, disent qu'il y a 10% de touareg au Niger. Donc vous même vous dites qu'il y a 13 000000 de personnes au Niger, alors peuple touareg va être au moins 1.300.000 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.62.206.137 (talk • contribs) 21 November 2006.

Attempted translation of the above: I would just like to say that the Tuareg population in Niger amounts to millions, contrary with what is written in your article. I cannot say exactly how much, but merely the figure given by the government of Niger, which is, itself, politicized, says that Niger is 10% Tuareg. Thus, you, even you, say that there are 13 000000 people in Niger, so Tuareg people will be at least 1.300.000 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.62.206.137 (talk • contribs) 21 November 2006.

Translated by Jmabel | Talk; I'm not fluent in French, so I might have missed something, but I think I got it right. - Jmabel | Talk 21:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morocco and its Tuareg population

Morocco has a very significant Tuareg population inhabiting the southern portion of its country, near cities like Agadir and Ouarzazate. I heard that the figures were quite high. Can someone look into this? I also read that the total range of the Tuareg population is estimated at around 7 million (throughout Africa's Sahara/Sahel region). I'll try to find that link on the population figure. And I'll try to find articles on the significance of Morocco's Tuareg population. But if some manages to get information before me. Adding it would be greatly appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pinochii (talk • contribs) 11 December 2006.

One thing that does make numbers quite tricky is the lack of clear definition of who is a Tuareg: the degree to which it is a matter of ancestry, language, way of life, etc. This is a topic where good sources are hard to come by and (sadly) bad sources are sometimes easy to come by. But best of luck. - Jmabel | Talk 01:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The population in the Agadir region is not Targi as such, but is Berber, although for tourism purposes they go for the confusion. collounsbury 15:18, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citizenship

Being cross-border nomads, do they have citizenship? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.181.81 (talk) 06:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Yes. collounsbury 15:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cut potentially slanderous statement

I cut the following from the "arts" section: "They also dry camel feces and turn it to a form of jewerly." (sic) There was no citation. It seems somewhat unlikely, and, if false, could be seen as slanderous. If there is a solid citation, then I stand corrected. Otherwise, it should not be in the article. - Jmabel | Talk 07:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Salt Trade

I think this article should talk more about the Tuaregs' historical involvement in the salt trade, which is a primary source of income for them. Since for many Tuareg see the annual to semiannual migration to buy salt and sell it as a cultural identity, there should be more about it in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.231.127.15 (talk • contribs) 04:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)