Talk:Union Pacific Big Boy

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[edit] Need to add a criticisms section

I have a fairly recent issue of Trains magazine that includes an intelligently written article arguing that most 'superpower' steam was more about marketing hype than anything else, and that many later steam locomotives were poorly chosen for the tasks they had to perform. It included criticism of the UP Big Boys. In essence, the argument is that by building an 80 mph locomotive when a 60 mph one would have done (given that the service requirement was for only 60 mph) the UP let hype and publicity overwhelm good sense. A locomotive built for a 60 mph top speed would have a horsepower curve that would have delivered more real power and tractive effort at the speeds that the Big Boys really operated at. The UP sacrificed low-speed lugging ability for a top speed ability they never needed.

Another criticism of the Big Boy was its use of an exhaust steam injector instead of a feedwater heater. The exhaust steam injector is more efficient in its steam utilisation than the feedwater heater, but it does not heat the water nearly as much and in the end is less efficient overall. In addition, the crews hated the exhaust steam injector and generally did not use it, using only the regular injector instead.

I'll add these to the article, but I think it needs more reorganisation first than I have time to do right now. —Morven 20:45, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

In response to "Morven" who cites the "Trains" magazine article:

While there may be something to say in connection with the designing of what could be said to be "an 80 mph engine for 60 mph service" I don't believe the author was addressing the correct aspects of the design. Not having the design data at hand, I very seriously doubt the mechanical engineers at American Locomotive Co. and UP's headquarters "Mechanical Dept." did not have the operating conditions of the Wahsatch fully in mind when putting together the main proportions of the design of these locomotives. Having not seen this article for some years I can't recall it in detail, however if it fails to note that what is actually meant by "designing the engine for 80 mph" is in actuality designing for the forces present at that speed (meaning counterbalance and other forces), not the point at which maximum power was to be developed. Another example is the second and third series of UP's 4-8-4's, the 820-844 groups. They were designed for forces existing at 110 mph. Not that they regularly attained anything near that, merely the factor of mechanical safety. The result was engines with few failures such as broken frames, rods, etc.

Again, it's possible a case could be made that these engines could have moved more tonnage if equipped with 63" driving wheels or if certain other characteristics had been adjusted to one extent or another. However, any attempting to make such statements today are only writing in conjecture as no one alive today knows exactly what was in the minds of the men working on that project. There is one thing which is certain: Union Pacific was developing power with National Defense traffic in mind, and speed was of the essence. A great deal of effort was put into the development of power which was going to be capable of high speeds. This was a joint effort of UP and Alco engineers. So, while someone may attempt to say these engines weren't optimized for this or that, they can only do so from the standpoint of looking at things outside the box. Some of the finest locomotive design minds in the nation produced the late UP power and it's highly unlikely mistakes of the sort mentioned by the author of this "Trains" article were made.

Regarding the exhaust steam injector, I have spoken with four surviving Big Boy and Challenger engineers. Each has told me they suffered little trouble with the Elesco Type TP injector fitted to both 4000's and big Challengers. Nor were they familiar with claims that these units were any less reliable than other locomotive water feed appliances. However, each did say that they liked the feedwater heaters better. In addition, I don't believe it's generally understood just how much influence costs bore in the selection of appliances and other elements of locomotive design, purchase and operation on Union Pacific. More, the influence of salesmen and their acceptance in UP mechanical circles was a factor. I have seen correspondence indicating the exhaust steam injector was considerably less expensive than the Worthington S-type feedwater heaters. Personally, I have no doubt the combination of cost, relationships and possibly influences at Alco resulted in the use of the Elesco Type TP injectors. As important as the Big Boys were, I also have little doubt the engines would have been re-fitted with Worthington systems had the TP's performed to the point the engines were regularly using the Nathan 4000 live steam injectors. UP changed feed water arrangements on locos with great frequency.

4-12-2

It should also be mentioned that there was for a short time in the 1950's a television show called "Big Boy" and this used a lot of UP film footage.

[edit] BIG BOY TV SHOW

In the 1950's there was a TV Show called "Big Boy." I understand that UP participated in filming and there was quite a lot of footage taken and a company called "Pentrex" has recently put a DVD out about it.