Talk:United States presidential election, 2008/Archive 2007

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Contents 1 Differences between templete & page 2 One question 3 It's official 4 Ron Paul 5 It isn't 2006 anymore. 6 New Hampshire Republican Primary? 7 1952 vs. 1928 "non-incumbent" election issue 8 a Grand Revision 9 Michael Charles Smith 10 Joe Biden filing 11 Pataki statement 12 47th Vice President 13 John Kerry 14 Go ahead and call the obvious states 15 Google and the wiki, and their own impact 16 Estimated cost of the 2008 presidential election 17 First election without incumbents in 80 years? 18 Obama's status 19 User names and anonymity 20 Al Sharpton 21 Archiving Al Gore 22 Please archive! 23 Giuliani 24 Nader 25 Drop-out candidates 26 Article is looking out of date 27 NM Governor Bill Richardson's comment 28 More official candidates

Differences between templete & page

For instance, the templete lists Al Gore as having serious interest in running while the page does not. Also, Bill Wyatt is listed as an official Republican candidate on the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hobie Hunter (talk • contribs) 22:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

One question

Does any candidate has a polish 'roots'? S. M. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.205.72.216 (talk) 21:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

It's official

Dodd is running for president. Check out http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16565744/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.8.3.9 (talk) 23:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Ron Paul

He's filed, but it's unclear if he'll be a Republican, Libertarian, or independent. I put him under the GOP because that's what he is now. Also, I only could find blog citations, so I put one of the more reputable blogs down, but feel free to improve the citation when one comes along. Zz414 21:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It isn't 2006 anymore.

This article needs to change the wording so it does not read like 2007 was still in the future. Don't know how to do it though. (scratches head) -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. 23:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

New Hampshire Republican Primary?

Article says it's supposed to occur on a Monday, is that correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.160.106.255 (talk) 04:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC). no.66.108.2.161 14:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

1952 vs. 1928 "non-incumbent" election issue

The last time a sitting U.S. President or U.S. Vice President did not enter a state primary or caucus (seeking election to the Presidency) was 1928. I revised the article to reflect this fact--although 1952 and 1968 were close (Truman entered the New Hampshire primary in 1952, but lost to Estes Kefauver and dropped out; Lyndon Johnson won the New Hampshire primary in 1968, but dropped out anyway). ProfessorPaul 08:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC) ==John Kerry==

I don't know if John Kerry is running for President according to this: [1] Carpet9 16:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

He still could, if Massachusetts law allows it. Remember how Joe Lieberman ran for the Senate and the Vice Presidency in 2000? Valadius 19:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

But Massachussetts law does not allow it. Carpet9 23:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

He just announced that he won't be running in 2008. [2] Macduff 01:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

a Grand Revision

With 2007 over two weeks old, there is something new to consider. Starting next month, the parties in a number of states are going to sponser candidate forums and debates. Invitation to these debates are extremely important to a candidate's status, so I think that the candidate section should start out with "candidates invited to at least ONE major forum." Being invited to a major cattle call is a form of recognition. Look at Larry Agren, he wasn't invited and that was the end of him as a serious candidate. Also, there's the listing of all the candidates in order of staus, front runners, middle tier, "what the hell are they doing here? teir. It's already happened: GOP:Rudy, Romney, McCain and everyone else. Dems: Clinton, Obama, Edwards, everyone else. usually one from "everyone else" manages to make it past Iowa, but the front runners are almost always the one's who go all the way.Ericl 17:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Michael Charles Smith

I've noticed that some people have been removing Michael Charles Smith from the Republican list recently. Is there any reason for this? Is there any way to verify that he has officially filed? Valadius 21:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It says so on his page, so we're not making it up. This article confirms it: http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2006/04/02/news/top_story/news01.txt Rowsdower45 15:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC) == Third parties?==

I read that the only parties on enough ballots in enough States to theoretically win the presidency are the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, and the Constitution Party. Should we limit the "third parties" listed to those, and include other candidates under "independents" or some other category? I don't think that the Reform Party, the Socialist Party, or the Prohibition Party merit the same attention as the other three, if that's the case. Zz414 18:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Joe Biden filing

Because I've been suddenly accused of "link spam," I'll post it here. Biden has sent out an e-mail announcing that he'll file with the FEC tomorrow, January 31. His official site will be joebiden.com. Just a heads-up as soon as it happens so we can move him. Zz414 21:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Pataki statement

It looks like Pataki is off the "interest" wagon, and someone has removed him.[3] He's in the Gore camp of "it's still a possibility," but it doesn't look like he's seriously interested. Zz414 21:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

47th Vice President

I've added the fact that the winning VP candidate, will become the 47th Vice President of the USA. The President & Vice President are elected together. If neither get a majority vote in the Electoral College, the House of Represenative chooses the president-elect & the Senate chooses the vice president-elect. GoodDay 23:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a good addition. We don't need to worry about "candidates" until it's mid-2008, but listing those details is helpful. Zz414 14:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

John Kerry

It's official, Kerry isn't going to seek the presidency. Just look at this [4]

It's on his website too. 9th paragraph down. [5]

Go ahead and call the obvious states

Everyone and his grandmother knows that SC, Georgia, Virginia, Tennessee, Texas, North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are going republican. And New England and California are going Democrat. Please put on there that "It is presumed, from political history, that the following states will go Democrat... Republican..."

Um, no. --Zz414 16:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Google and the wiki, and their own impact

In Google, searches for Edwards, Obama, Giuliani, Gingrich, Clinton, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee, and probably all other candidates return Wikipedia entries as the first, second, third or fourth hit. What impact will the Wikipedia have on the race? What impact will Google have on it, if they continue to rank us that near the top?

I believe that polling firms ask questions about where voters learn about the candidates. Is it possible to get such information for the Wiki? MrZaius^talk 06:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Estimated cost of the 2008 presidential election

Found FANTASTIC article in the New York Daily News, dated January 17, 2007, relating to the estimated cost of the 2008 presidential election. FEC Chairman Michael Toner stated he thought it would be a "$1 billion election" and that a candidate (probably) had to raise "$100 million" by the end of 2007 "just to be taken seriously." [6] The article has an excellent chart at the end. Have added the facts from this newspaper article and cited the source. ProfessorPaul 08:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Is this appropriate? What about the "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball"? Isn't this rampant speculation that the election will cost $X, or, alternatively, an insignificant assertion that, *gasp*, an election four years later may cost more than the previous one? I'm skeptical of the worth of this article, at least at this stage. Zz414 14:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The fact that this election could be "The most expensive election in American history" is (I feel) not worth stating because due to inflation, even if the candidates spent the same real amount, the nominal amount would of course be higher. Therefore, unless adjusted for inflation, these numbers mean nothing. Moreover, these numbers are merely pure speculation...futher questioning such importance or relavency. 須藤 19:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

First election without incumbents in 80 years?

The general election did not have an incumbent in 1952 and 1968. Whether the incumbent entered the primaries is really not the major issue. The fact that the two designated candidates on the two major parties is. Maybe in the US, the long primary season is interesting, but for the world, the general election is the key contest. In that spirit, the statement, "First election without incumbents in 80 years" is not correct.

To be correct, the statement should read, "First election without incumbents involved in the primaries or general election in 80 years" user:mnw2000 22:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• That section does say "The 2008 race will be the first time since 1928 (80 years) that neither the sitting president nor the sitting vice president will enter a state caucus or primary and run for president" which explains pretty clearly what it means. I don't think it is misleading, and it is notable that it is the first time in 80 years that a president or vice president won't seek election to the office. It gives a sense of how wide open the election is for all parties, not just the challenging party. Given that the section explains what this statement means, I think it should stay. Alienmercy 23:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Obama's status

It appears some people think Obama's "kickoff rally" on Saturday indicated that he'd filed with the FEC as a candidate for the Democrats. In fact, he's still only filed an "exploratory committee" and has simply held a "kickoff rally" as he begins down that road. Please do not move him until he's actually filed as a candidate with the FEC, and not merely filed in an exploratory committee. --Zz414 00:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Obama has announced his candidacy, transmitted live worldwide (e.g. in the Netherlands, where I live). His Website has lost the label "Exploratory Committee". The candidate's stated intentions should be more important than whether he has or has not filed the paperwork (even then: how could we check that? The FEC updates their filings page currently only once a week). Peterbr 15:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Simply "announcing" candidacy means almost nothing. After all, Clinton also "announced" her candidacy, but all that means is a kickoff rally even though an exploratory committee had been filed. I suppose we'll just have to wait until the FEC papers are updated laster this week, but I'm pretty skeptical, because not a single news source indicates that he's filed with the FEC as a candidate. The FEC report indicates he's still only in the exploratory committee stage. --Zz414 16:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I'll add that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and it relies upon sourced and cited data. If something can't be verified, then the default isn't to go with the unverified position; it's to go with the verified position and look for verification for the unverified position. --Zz414 16:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It looks like you only accept evidence from fec.gov, as if that is the Holy Grail. There are hundreds of newspapers around the world reporting (12,121 results) that Obama is officially candidate. The FEC needs some time to process and publish; while they're doing it, I suggest that this page reflects the position considered factual by most of the world's journalists, which is that Obama is an official candidate. You made three reverts yesterday, if I counted correctly, so I point to WP:3RR. I'm going to not modify this article for the next 24 hours and ask you to do the same; even though I just saw that Hillary is supposedly "official candidate". Let the others in the community have their say today ... Peterbr 08:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Voilà: filed. Peterbr 10:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Like I said, I'm not taking the FEC Web site has the "Holy Grail," but no media sources (that I could find) even announced that he'd filed with the FEC as a candidate. I was looking for the magic "FEC filed" words to appear on some media, and it never happened. But I'm happy to concede once he's listed somewhere. --Zz414 14:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, wait until Obama files with the FEC. GoodDay 16:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

User names and anonymity

After doing a little research, it appears that Hobie has been inflating the talk page by signing his own name to a claim, then signing out and making an anonymous IP comment. IP 65.8.3.209 has made edits to Hobie's own comments previously, such as here, and has made identical edits to Hobie in other entries. Please let me know your thoughts on this matter. Thanks. --Zz414 20:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

ZZ, you have been involved in heated debates with Howie, so I think it's of particular importance that you make a very clear case of (1) what you think is happening, and (2) why you think it is wrong. The edit you cite does not appear to indicate any intent to deceive; the most likely scenario is that Hobie edited his own comment, not realizing that he was no longer logged in. I have done that myself on several occasions, and it's always been a simple oversight, and one with no harmful effects. If there is in fact a larger pattern, you should spell it out in more detail, and you should look into Wikipedia policies on taking action in that kind of case. I'm no expert, but I'd start here: Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry -Pete 20:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I've done a lot of edits, but I haven't done a lot with dealing with the Wikipedia community. Thanks for directing me to that section. I meant particularly that a round of voting was occurring in the Al Gore III section on whether or not Gore should be removed from the main page if he hasn't expressed serious intent after Oscar Night. Hobie voted at 20:16 on 17 Feb a "No," and the IP that I think is associated with Hobie voted "No" at 20:19. That was an extra vote, and both had different comments. Then, in a comment at 15:36 on 18 February, Hobie counted votes, including both his own and the IP address's votes, in citation of the larger support. The particular section of Sock Puppet that I'm referring to now is Voting and other shows of support:

Wikipedia uses a "one person, one vote" principle for all votes and similar discussions where individual preferences are counted in any fashion (vote fraud). Accordingly, sock puppets may not be used to give the impression of more support for a viewpoint. This includes voting multiple times in any election, or using more than one account in discussions such as Wikipedia:Deletion debates, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, or on talk pages. In addition to double-voting, sock puppets should not be used for the purpose of deception, distraction, or to create the illusion of broader support for a position than actually exists.

Now it appears that Hobie has gone back and removed the "No" vote from that IP address. --Zz414 22:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Al Sharpton

He shouldn't be under the potential candidates secton. First off, he's a reverend, not a politician. Also, he dosen't have a political website, a campaign site, or an exploratory committee. He being listed sort of reminds me of somebody putting Howard Stern on the list. I beleive it would be wise to remove him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hobie Hunter (talk • contribs) 22:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Since the above is POV, can someone confirm Al Sharpton's candiate status? Anarchist42 22:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

There's already a citation indicating that he's seriously "expressing interest."[7] A candidate doesn't need a Web site to express interest. He's officially run in years past, so it's not as incredible as Howard Stern. Hobie, it had a citation, so it's perfectly legitimate. Here's a source from TODAY indicating that Sharpton has declined to endorse Obama because he is considering his own bid.[8] Sharpton stays, even though you may not like it. Zz414 23:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, Hobie edited his original comments, and I was responding to those: "He shouldn't be under the potential candidates secton. First off, he's a reverend, not a politician. Furthermore, he has no chance of winning the nomination, let alone the election. Finally, and most importantly, he dosen't have a political website, a campaign site, or an exploratory committee. He being list here has about as much credibility as Howard Stern. I'm removing him." Zz414 01:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The fact that Sharpton is a reverand, has no effect on his being a potential presidential candidate. Sorry 'Hobie', Sharpton stays. GoodDay 19:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Archiving Al Gore

Could somebody please create a subpage for the whole Al Gore discussion. I think that we should creaate a specific archive of this because it is much longer than any other topic discussed abou the 08' election. --Hobie Hunter 20:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Please archive!

Could someone please archive this page! For goodness sakes, the first post was from over a year ago! This page is becoming way too long. And besides, only the last three topics are still ongoing. --Hobie Hunter 21:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)Hobie Hunter, 8:29 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I dumped all of the 2006 entries into the existing /Archive1; maybe not a best practice? We probably need monthly archiving from here on. Peterbr 22:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I moved about sixteen topics into Archive 1. We should probably form a new acrhive about all the stuff that originally wasn't in Archive 1.--Hobie Hunter 02:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Giuliani

Check it out [9] --Hobie Hunter 02:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Rudy Giuliani is playing a game, which I think reflects a pretty sophisticated understanding of how to manipulate the media and sites like Wikipedia.

Essentially, there are 3 things a candidate has to do: (1) file paperwork with the FEC, (2) form an exploratory committee, and (3) announce his/her candidacy.

Giuliani has done (1) and (2), and is waffling on (3), with the desired effect of getting a lot of speculation in the media about whether or not he's "really running."

From the MSNBC article cited:

“

During a news conference Saturday after a speech in Sacramento, Calif., Giuliani was asked, "Are you in this for good?" "Yes, I am committed," he said. "This is something I believe I can bring something to, from the experiences that I've had." When asked a follow-up question about when he would make a formal announcement, he responded, "Well, formally announce? I don't know. If you go back to my speech, I think I may have. I'm not sure." He then alluded to making an announcement in multiple locations "so we get more attention" but provided no details.

”

So, let's not blindly play into his hand. I am going to rename the section headers to reflect the technical criteria (1) and (2), to remove the guesswork on (3).

Thoughts? -Pete 10:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

In my opinon, only the candidates who've filed with FEC should be listed in this article. The 'exploratories' and 'thinking about it' candidates additions, simply invite arguments about where who fits in what section. GoodDay 19:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. So Giuliani would stay, because he's filed with the FEC, right? I don't really care whether or not 'thinking about it' candidates or listed here, so long as it's consistent. They are listed in the "main" article linked, so removing them from here really does no harm. -Pete 21:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, Guliani stays. GoodDay 23:37, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Nader

Now that we've opened Pandora's Box by permitting Gore to be listed as a candidate even though he hasn't expressed serious interest, we've got to figure out what the limiting principle is for others. Nader has "left the door open," just like Gore, Bloomberg, and Pataki, but he has not expressed "serious interest" as of yet, and is not "actively considering" a run. It seems contingent on the Democrats, and it may change in the future, but again, until Nader expresses serious interest, he shouldn't be listed. --Zz414 20:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

We have not opened up Pandora's Box. Nonetheless, Nader shouldn't be listed. He's completely ruled out the possibility of running. It's just one of those people who put unknown politicians who aren't running. In short, it's an isolated incident. --Hobie Hunter 22:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Drop-out candidates

I added this category. We spent a lot of energy figuring out whether to list Bayh and Warner after they'd expressed intentions but hadn't officially decided to run. Now that we have a candidate who was officially running, FEC filed, and an announced candidate, I think we should place him in a new category of candidates who filed with the FEC and dropped out before the primaries. I imagine we'll have a couple from the Democrats and the Republicans who do so. Ultimately, we'll have three categories: the nominee, candidates who lost the primaries, and candidates who filed and dropped out before the primaries. Thoughts? --Zz414 16:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

We did discuss this, and came to the conclusion that we would create this category. Valadius 16:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, a user added Bayh, but Bayh only formed an Exploratory Committee and never announced his candidacy. --Zz414 19:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, now really isn't the time to have candidates who dropped out. This article is a place where people look to find out who's running. This category should be added when we get to primaries or the conventions. We don't have a section on this page for John Kerry or Russ Fiengold or Howard Dean. Vilsack should be listed with them --Hobie Hunter 21:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Kerry, Feingold, and Dean never announced their official candidacy; they merely explored the possibility of becoming a candidate. That's the difference. If you want to draw the line at "participate in a primary," please explain why that's more significant than "FEC filed and officially announced" candidates. I think (and apparently Valadius said that consensus previously concluded) that announced candidacy should be the line, not participation in a primary. --Zz414 02:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You make a good point ZZ. I believe that participating in a primary or two is more important than filing than withdrawing because the primaries are part of the actual election. Vilsack dropped out over a year before the primaries. The category Vilsack really belongs in should be added once the actual election starts next January. After all, we don't want the page getting too crowded. --Hobie Hunter 03:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Not to start a quarrel again, but 'Al Gore' has got to go (see my posting above, at Al Gore IV). GoodDay 03:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

To avoid further futile discussion, I'm willing to wait another month. --Zz414 15:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Hobie, please don't remove Vilsack, as consensus per Valadius and this discussion has indicated that it should remain. First, announcing candidacy and being called "candidate" is a big step. Allen, Bayh, Frist, Kerry, and Warner cannot say they were candidates for president in 2008; Vilsack can. Second, opinion polling for states like Iowa included Vilsack, not Allen, Bayh, Frist, Kerry, and Warner. Third, people actually endorsed Vilsack, like Sen. Tom Harkin; no one endorsed Allen, Bayh, Frist, Kerry, or Warner because they weren't candidates. Finally, the page won't get "too long." As discussed above, it will be broken into three simple categories: candidates who dropped out before the primary, candidates who dropped out during the primary, and the candidate for the party. --Zz414 15:04, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

First off, I looked for that discussion and didn't find any previous diacussion like this. Second, I meant right now the candidates section might get too long. Third, although Vilsack was a candidate, he was a candidate for less than three months and dropped out a year before any primaries. He didn't even make it to the most rudimentary debates. I think it would be more appropriate to have him as a note. --Hobie Hunter 00:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Consensus was reached here, as I originally stated, "Candidates who expressed interest, but then decided to back out and not pursue the nomination are not that significant. It's only when you actually enter the primary or official announce that it matters once you drop out." Or here, "Certainly I don't think he qualifies as a dropout candidate when he was never actually a candidate." The archives show exhaustive discussions of it. And making a "note" only makes the article longer, if that were actually your original concern. --Zz414 01:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, I couldn't find the discussion. The first post in the first topic proves my point exactly. To quote the topic I don't know that this is a meaningful category to have. It's not going to be significant in the future. Candidates who expressed interest, but then decided to back out and not pursue the nomination are not that significant. It's only when you actually enter the primary or official announce that it matters once you drop out. At this stage, it's so early and speculative that a drop out isn't really a worthy event because, after all, they've "dropped out" only from, what, exploring the possibility of running? I don't think it's a good category. My main point is that if you're a candidate for three months and didn't participate in a single primary, caucus, or even a basic debate you're just not significant. I think it would be best to keep Vilsack as a note until there are other candidates like him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hobie Hunter (talk • contribs) 14:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

If a non-candidate (Al Gore) is gonna be listed. Then a former candidate (Tom Vilsack) should be listed aswell. There'll be more candidates dropping out, before January 2008. Will they be eliminated aswell? GoodDay 16:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Vilsack should remain - this encyclopedia article should reflect the historical events of this race. -Pete 17:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I've said this before and I'll say it again, GoodDay, please don't talk about Al Gore here. It is a complete distraction to say Vilsack should be listed because Gore is. First of, Vilsack has not and will not be eliminated. He simply listed as a note. Furthermore, there are other 'non-candidates listed such as Al Sharpton, Michael Savage, and Wes Clark. Last but not least once there are two or three candidates who have droppped out before the primaries, there will be that specific category for that. Just as a note, I don't think anyone will remove Vilsack on the page. --Hobie Hunter 19:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Article is looking out of date

This article is begining to look out of date according to this article: [10] Casig10228 17:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

??? --Ai.kefu 20:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia should contain accurate information. No matter how many times the votes were counted and what some editors desire. incumbent Vice President Al Gore lost the 2000 election. The page should reflect this. Thanks. Steve

Huh????--Hobie Hunter 13:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Please specify what is out-of-date about this article. I've read the page you linked to, and I don't get it. Peterbr 15:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the user is joking or mistaken; none of his other contributions have anything to do with politics or current events. I really don't think his comment here should be considered further. Qqqqqq 02:31, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Valadius 17:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Am I missing something here? On the main page regarding the election, it was stated that the 2008 election would be the first election in 80 years (since the 1928 election) without a sitting President or Vice President. But the 1952 election had neither. Just wanted some feedback before I attempted to edit that section. Bujudude

Truman's VP ran in 1952. He didn't win the primaries, though. Frankg 14:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

That's right, Vice President Alben W.Barkley sought the 1952 Democratic presidential nomination. He was unsuccessful, due in part to his age (75 years). Therefore, 2008 is the first time (since 1928) no incumbent President or incumbent Vice President sought his party's presidential nomination. GoodDay 19:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

NM Governor Bill Richardson's comment

The Associated Press has reported that New Mexico Governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson has stated that the Democratic contest for President will be over in late January 2008 after the first four state contests (Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and South Carolina). The AP link is here: [11]. I have included it in this article and cited the source--but we can discuss Richardson's comment here, if needed. ProfessorPaul 00:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Isn't Richardson crystal-balling? Should we really mention his comment here? GoodDay 20:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

More official candidates

When did Jim Gilmore and Mike Huckabee announce that they were running? I see no reference to warrant their movement to the "Official candidates" section in this article, in Official and potential 2008 United States presidential election Republican candidates nor in the candidate's articles. They were moved during the last 24 hours. Peterbr 12:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)