Talk:Van Morrison

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[edit] Attack?

I'm not sure how to include this in a encyclopia fashion way, but Morrison reportedly has "Launched an attack" on the music industry and the Internet. I could not find for certain the original source for the quotes, but different sources seem to be taking it from contactmusic.com. The stuff he is quoted for is interesting and I think it should be included. I'm just beggining to understand Wikipedia, so I wasn't sure about putting all the information on the article page.

Here are the links to the two stories

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/van%20morrison%20slams%20internet_28_02_2006

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/van%20morrison%20slams%20commercial%20music%20industry_01_03_2006

[edit] Needs more

This article remains kind of thin, especially from 1977 on — unfortunately I don't know that work well enough to contribute. And I don't think the article really captures what makes Van so special ... the Astral Weeks article actually does a better job of that, I hope readers find it. Wasted Time R 03:48, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The phrase "Many consider his performance of "Caravan" to be the climax of The Last Waltz, Martin Scorsese's 1978 film of The Band's farewell concert." sounds odd. It either is the climax (ie in popular parlance, the end) or it isn't. I would suggest "high point".--Attila the Pooh 11:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Done and done - Akamad 04:49, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

But do many consider that ? Or is just many Van Morrison fans who think that ? -- Beardo 15:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

That's a valid point. I might try to look for some reviews of it. - Akamad 01:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I changed the line after reading some reviews. Some state it as a highlight, but not enough to warrant the previous statement. - Akamad 02:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irish/Northern Irish

He isn't an Irish singer, he is Northern Irish. They are different countries. It is like calling a Scottish singer an English singer.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.110.223.243 (talk • contribs).

"I'm Irish and a British subject."[1]

"I'm Irish, American and British. I don't think I'm any one of those things. I think I'm Irish. I think I'm American. I think I'm British."[2]

Van frequently describes himself as "Irish", so while it seems to offend you, it apparently doesn't offend him. Camillus (talk) 03:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Northern Ireland is not a country, nor is it a province: it is a region within the UK. Van Morrison often refers to himself as Irish. I have reverted back to Irish as Van has described himself as Irish. Iolar

Irish can refer to anyone from the island of Ireland, not just those from the country (Republic of) Ireland. -- Beardo 15:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I've just placed his place of residence into the intro as I think that is important and the fact that his partner is Michelle Rocca and they have a child together. Also, I have corrected the reference to Them as a British band - citation: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:vx1ibk596akc

The catagories "British Musician" and "British Songwriter" have been added. Is this correct?BuffaloBob 00:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it is, technically. Though he also considers himself "Irish". One can be a Scot and British, Welsh and British, English and British and those from Northern Ireland (who agree) can refer to themselves as Irish and British. Stephenjh 01:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scientologist?

According to the Guardian, he is [3] yet there's no mention of it in the article? --Hn 13:04, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I added a reference to it on the article. He mentions it on an interview: http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/reviews/1985newage.html. - Akamad 13:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

This is absurd, Van Morrison was not formally affiliated with Scientology, but like William S. Burroughs had a passing interest in Dianetics. Van Morrison is formerly a member of the Church of Ireland.

The two cited references prove nothing. The Guardian ref says that he said he was in an interview in the 80s (presumably the interview cited in in the second ref). In the interview itself, van gives the idea short-shrift, just something that he was interested in at the time. Hubbard was "credited" on his 1985 album. Big deal. Van is a very ecletic, complex individual. You could easily say he was a Buddhist, a Jehovah Witness, an existentialist etc. etc. The idea that these refs "prove" that he is a Scientoligist is just tosh. Camillus (talk) 22:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The line I added to the article was: "Despite stating that he is a Christian, he was linked to Scientology, after he gave a special thanks to L. Ron Hubbard on his 1986 album, Inarticulate Speech of the Heart." WIth this reference given: [4]. I certainly believe this is a fair statement to make, but perhaps you don't, any comments on how to improve it? - Akamad 00:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Well let's see: your ref gives this one sentence where Scientology is mentioned, in passing : Morrison has stated that he is a Christian, but he admits his involvement in Scientology, transcendental meditation, and assorted New Age practices.. First, it's unacceptable, as - where does Van "admit his involvement with Scientology"? Perhaps the interview in 1985, where he gives it short-shrift? This is just an example of a writer putting words in Van's mouth. Van hates to be categorised, and can even be quite mischevious about it, throwing gullible interviewers off on wild goose-chases. If it's got to be mentioned at all, I would suggest something like : "Morrison is a complex individual, who has cited many eclectic influences on his life and music. He gave a special thanks to L. Ron Hubbard on his 1986 album..., although he has never been formally associated with Scientology or any other Church." Something like that. Anything more is just pure speculation. Camillus (talk) 09:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I incorporated your text on to the article. - Akamad 10:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Church of Ireland

In a 1989 Q Magazine interview conducted by Spike Milligan, Van Morrison responds to a question about his religious affiliation with "Well theoretically I'm Church Of Ireland". http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/reviews/1989august.html

It is however interesting, that no matter what evidence of Van's Anglican roots are put forth, there will always be doubters and hecklers.

"Growing up in a Church of Ireland (often wrongly described as Protestant) family ..." This seems odd. I don't know anyone in Northern Ireland who wouldn't describe the Anglican church as Protestant. Can someone explain?

The Church Of Ireland is part of the Anglican communion - strictly speaking Anglicanism is not a Protestant church but a reformed Catholic church. Basically Anglicans accept apostlic succession (the church and it's history is the source of the religion) - true Protestantism is a revealed faith - each member comes to God individually. Of course historically Anglicanism has become seen as a protestant faith but some members are much closer to the Catholic church than Calvin.

[edit] Guitar? ==

I'm curious, what kind of electric guitar is played during the first few bars in 'Wild Night' and 'Gloria'? (PS- excuse me if I haven't quite gotten the hang of editing Wikipedia)

[edit] Nothing like starting out an entry with some racism.

"No white man sings like him."

If the observation that "no black man sings like him" were placed in an article on opera singer Paul Robeson, the howls of "racism" would be loud indeed.

The observation that somehow Morrison is elevated to a realm where whites, inherently limited due to their race, are unable to climb is explicitly racist and has no place here.

I am sick of the casual anti-White racism epidemic on Wikipedia. BulldogPete 10:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's a racist comment. But if you feel it is, feel free to remove the line. - Akamad 21:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not going to take it upon myself to remove it, but I think "Bulldog" arguably has a point. 24.6.66.193 00:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

How is the term "No white man sings like him." racist? I don't understand. It's a bold statement that could be open to many interpretations, but refers to no other 'race', nor makes any comparison with any other 'race'. I don't read any racism here. Stephenjh 19:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It means that Morrison can sing black music like no other white man (and if someone wants to dispute the existence of black music, then I'll be happy to debate). Morrison's tone, and especially when singing Blues, has conjured many statements that he "sings like a black man". There are accounts of people mistaking him for a black man before actually seeing a photo of him or being told otherwise (sorry, I can't cite that directly at the moment). I don't think that it is a racist sentiment at all, and if it is then it's one that is shared by many. I defy anyone to have listened to Elvis Presely without seeing a photo of him and say he wasn't white, or James Brown and say that he wasn't black. It does seem that tones carry differently between both "races". If humans have different racial physical attributes, what's to say we don't have different racial vocal attributes?--Bentonia School 11:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"Morrison can sing black music like no other white man". No offence meant to the above wiki' editor but if that is what it means, then I think that's utter tosh and a completely POV statement that should be removed. Stephenjh 09:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Janet Planet

As far as I can tell (from Johnny Rogan's biography) that Janet Planet was never a musician, but rather an actress.

Steve D.

[edit] Wavelength

You say Wavelength was not well received by critics. I recall it being named one of the top 10 rock albums of the year by Time Magazine. I think they said something like "More Morrison magic"

[edit] Horribly POV

"The new decade saw Morrison following his own muse regardless of the commercial consequences. In 1980, he took a group of outstanding musicians with him to Super Bear, a studio in the French Alps on the site of a former abbey, to record his most daring and unclassifiable album to date. The album, Common One although not well received critically is perhaps one of Morrison's greatest achievements and began his journey in an entirely new musical direction in the 1980's.

"The last four songs show Morrison almost completely free from self-consciousness and at his innovative best, lyrically and vocally.

"He gave his first performance as a child with a spirited rendition of Lead Belly's "Goodnight Irene"." Pure POV. anybody want to take a stab at rewriting it? — User:ACupOfCoffee @ 03:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changed POV questioned parts

I hope that the changes I've made will be sufficient and would like to remark that I have taken special care to only include material that can be cited by other sources in reference material I have. (5) books written about him and also I've read numerous interviews and reviews. The article before I started working on it, was POV in the other direction and also had numerous inaccuracies. So if anyone has any suggestions about how it can be improved, I hope you will respond to me at my talk page. I've always been a person who studies subject matter extensively and than moves on to something else. I've formed no opinion of Van Morrison other than he has made a great contribution to music, and sometimes has fallen short of his talents, probably because of personality flaws. (I think anyone familiar with his work would agree with this) Thanks for any suggestion anyone can offer..... Agadant 13:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you've done a great job. --Dweller 13:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Further Thoughts on Horribly POV (?)

The remark about Van Morrison's "spirited" rendition of "Goodnight Irene" came from Johnny Rogan's No Surrender and was from interviews he had with neighbors and childhood acquaintances of Morrison's. He did use the adjective "rousing" and I changed it to "spirited" because I was more comfortable with that word. So I've now taken out any adjective but it was his first performance as a child and I can't see why I should remove that. The use of the word "outstanding" in referring to the musicians on "Common One" is an adjective I think they have earned, but I removed it. I think anyone who has heard "Common One" would have to agree that it is daring and unclassifiable and Morrison would have had to know it would not be commercially successful. I do think he can be said to be following his own muse, or if not, what was he doing? The remarks about the second side of "into the Music" being free from self-consciousness and innovative...lyrically and vocally.. is also something I've often run across worded differently in several reviews. (Also would have to be agreed to by anyone who has listened to it. It's rather startling at first listen, because it's so different from what we've heard before.) Once again, Morrison had to know these songs were not "radio friendly." I've tried mostly to be unbiased but "fair" to Morrison and also to write an interesting, informative article, showing how he has been truly unusual and influential as stated in the opening of the article. (Which I did not write.) The parts I have written ( everything that was considered POV) have been in keeping ( I thought) and consistent with the rest of the article. I always kept anything that someone else had written, (if not inaccurate or inappropriately lengthly) and wrote around it. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? In reading articles about other musicians, (Graded GA) I honestly can't see why this is considered POV. Especially now that I've removed the few adjectives or sentences that might be questionable. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?? Agadant 02:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I would agree and am going to boldy remove the POV tag as it appears that the issues raised above have been addressed. Good work. -- No Guru 02:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concept of compilation

Concept of "compilation" seems a bit incoherent/inconsistent. It doesnt make any taxonomic sense to make Live at Austin City Limits Festival a "Compilation". Its a live show. To be consistent you would have to make other live Morrison albums compilations " Live in Belfast, Night in San Francisco, Skiffle sessions etc. Philosophers Stone is not strictly a compilation either its a fresh album of unreleased music recorded at disparate times. A better schema would be Studio Albums, Live Albums, Compilations, defined as assemblages from pre-existing recordings, and even then you are going to get the odd hybrid, like this forthcoming film music compilation which includes an unreleased live version of Moondance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.97.213.86 (talk • contribs).

Seems sensible. --Dweller 09:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Does making Live at Austin City Limits Festival a Limited Edition category seem like a good solution at least for this album? Hopefully he will continue this trend. I think this makes the compilation category more clear as the Live at Belfast etc. albums were recorded at one time period and the Best of etc. albums incl. VM at the Movies were different time periods. Does anyone have more experience than I do (none) in adding photos etc. to new pages? VM at the Movies has a new page but there is a photo available to add. Would Live at Austin ever qualify for it's own page? The newly released DVD Live at Montreux does not have a page, also.---- Agadant 12:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

203.97.213.86 Sorry to have changed your entry w/o discussion (put it under compilations)--I would have but you didn't have a user page. Hope you'll make one. And hope you'll continue to be interested in this article and improving it.----Agadant 13:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Common One

Does anyone have any thoughts on the importance of Common One in Morrison's career? Is the longer paragraph maybe a better description of why one of the more obscure albums he recorded also one of the most important in terms of his development as an artist. Nothing is my own personal opinion but the combined opinions of biographers and critics. Into the Music is often called his last great album or masterpiece and I've tried to correlate why the overwhelming critical acclaim on that one may have caused Morrison to overreach with Common One and then retreat (to more common ground) when the reviews on it were so brutal and even sometimes personal. Appreciate any feedback. I'm not an accomplished writer, only trying hard. Thanks, Agadant 14:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of references

First off, I would like to say that this article reads really well. But for it to become a Good Article or Featured Article, it really needs footnotes. For information on how to add footnotes, see WP:FOOT and WP:REF. Right now, that is the biggest thing preventing this article from being really great. Cheers. – Heave n's Wrath ^Talk 04:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

Can some kind soul (which is everyone who edits wikipedia) help enter the footnotes? I'll admit I don't know how, and have limited time right now to learn. Or if someone wants to write me a crash course on it to my talk page, I'll try. ....Agadant 15:21, 25 January 2007

The References/footnotes will be out of order for a while till I can get them all done. Hopefully, everyone will be patient. I'm having a time understanding how to do the citation footnotes so I may save them for last...Agadant 21:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Need Reference: Van Morrison said years later in an interview, "Of my whole career, the shining moment was when I sang "Gloria " on stage with Jim Morrison. (71.194.249.161) contributed this but so far, I haven't seen a source.....Agadant 21:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Footnotes are almost finished with great help from MAL. Agadant 00:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Auto peer review

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[edit] John Minihan

Does anyone have a source for the John Minihan reference. Don't know when it went in article or by whom. I've seen enough photographs of Van Morrison by Minihan to feel it has credence but surprised to find it hard to verify. Can someone help? Thanks, Agadant 20:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Ive tried googling it with no luck. I think it is going to be a difficult sentence to source and wonder how valuable it is to the article. The John Minihan article itself makes no claim about being Van Morrison's official photographer. I think the Minihan section could be safely removed without harming the article. Just my thoughts. -- No Guru 23:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, No Guru, I had come to that conclusion myself but glad to see someone agree. So I'll remove it now. If someone comes up with something, we can always put it back. Agadant 02:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main Image was deleted on 03-09-07 but replaced on 03-10-07

Main image has been replaced with a very current, really great photo of Van Morrison. This is a tremendous contribution to the article.

[edit] Song articles

Would like to note that I've started to add some more song articles that need additional information, if anyone is interested in adding to them. (with cited sources, of course, if necessary) Agadant 17:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

- If the material is readily verified or apparent, it doesn't need sources.

[edit] Albums deleted?

Much of Van Morrison's Mercury/Polydor catalogue (70s through 90s) appears to be out of print - only used copies are available on Amazon.com, for example. Does anyone know why this might be?

I think that when he went to a new label, Manhattan EMI, he had all rights to the albums in question and took them with him. (I believe this is true but can't find anything online about it.) I've been waiting to see if they'll start being reissued by the new label. Maybe there's a time limit before this can be done. Someone else might know more. I'm very curious about this myself. Agadant 22:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It appears that in June 1997, a lot of these albums were deleted from the previous label, and reissued. So this is probably what will happen again. Agadant 20:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Until such a time as there is an actual announcement of a reissue project to be undertaken by whatever label Van is signed to now - his last disc came out on the Lost Highway subsidiary of the Univeral Music Group - the discography should list that the majority of his albums are out of print, indeed an indefensible position from a standpoint of cultural heritage. Not that record companies are necessarily concerned with such things.PJtP 21:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

"The post-Bang era has seen Van gain increasing control over his music, to the point where he is now essentially his own independent label (Exile Productions), retaining full production control of each album, and delivering the completed product to the record company (until recently Virgin) for marketing and distribution. A far cry indeed from the days when Van felt himself at the mercy of and ripped off by "the music business", as reflected in the lyrics of several songs including "Big Time Operators", and "The Big Royalty Check". 2002 saw the release of Van's album Down The Road, and an announcement that Van was once again "a Polygram artist". This marks Van Morrison's second spell with Polydor, having been with the label previously from 1989 through 1997." (This is from the Van Morrison Unofficial Website) I think it shows that the record company Polydor is probably not to blame....His last album Van Morrison at the Movies - Soundtrack Hits was issued by Manhattan, which is his new label.Agadant 22:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Found this question about the deleted albums on ask.billboard.com Vanished Morrisondated February 9, 2007.Agadant 16:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I removed the phrase: Obstensibly to be close to the area where Bob Dylan was residing

This has been a part of the article for a long time, and I did find that it could be referenced to a 1998 interview with Janet Minto, Morrison's ex-wife. But further reading revealed that Graham Blackburn says he persuaded Morrison to move with him to Woodstock, and that Van was very keen because he was a big fan of The Band who resided there. So due to conflicting accounts, I took it out of the article. The Blackburn account is in Steve Turners book, Too Late to Stop Now p.95.Agadant 00:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changed influences

I changed one of the artist who was said to be influenced by Van Morrison, James Morrison. The one that is influences (in his own words) is Paolo Nutini who is sometimes confused with James Morrison.

Thanks for your contribution. I added a reference source for him but also put James Morrison back as he is often said to be influenced by Van and others too. Watched a video clip of Paolo and thought him to be amazingly talented.Agadant 02:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

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