Talk:Varg Vikernes

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Contents 1 Mixed marriage? 2 Notes on timeline 3 From the trial 4 Moving misplaced links 5 Random edits 6 Music 7 Varg and NSBM 8 vargsmal 9 Scumbag 10 Vandalism 11 Majstorovic 12 Category: Anti-Semitic People 13 Reference to the Porvoo cathedral arson

[edit] Mixed marriage?

One fact that Varg and all the others who interpret the Lore in a Fascistic manner is that, according to that very Lore, the Thunder God Thor is the son of a racially mixed marriage. That is, Odin, his father who is Aseir and Jord, his mother who was Jotun (Giantess).

Neo-Nazis, Fascists and others of similar ilk are, in my experience, opposed to 'racially mixed marriages' but here, right in the Lore, is an important figure, a God no less, who is the product of a marriage between two races who are at war...

Also, the Havamal, from whence Varg took his inspiration re: Vargsmal, it says:

2. Gefendr heilir! Gestr er inn kominn, hvar skal sitja sjá? Mjök er bráðr sá er á bröndum skal síns of freista frama.

3. Elds er þörf þeims inn er kominn ok á kné kalinn. Matar ok váða er manni þörf, þeim er hefr um fjall farit.

4. Vatns er þörf þeim er til verðar kemr, þerru ok þjóðlaðar, góðs of æðis ef sér geta mætti orðs ok endrþögu.

Or in English:

2. Hail, ye Givers! a guest is come; say! where shall he sit within? Much pressed is he who fain on the hearth would seek for warmth and weal.

3. He hath need of fire, who now is come, numbed with cold to the knee; food and clothing the wanderer craves who has fared o'er the rimy fell.

4. He craves for water, who comes for refreshment, drying and friendly bidding, marks of good will, fair fame if 'tis won, and welcome once and again.

It says nothing about what racial background the guest should be.

Neo-nazis who seek to use the Lore to support their racist ideas are contradicted by that very same Lore.

Nik Warrensson

according to "VÅRGSMÅL", Varg's 'manifesto', he views giants as being personifications of the earth, so Odin being born to a giant mother is a metaphor for people being children of the land they come from. As to the lore regarding guests, it doesn't say that the guest would be regarded as a member of the host's own people, which is what Neo-Nazis would object to.

It must also be said that in the time when e. g. "Havamal" was written, they did not know of any other cultures, so why should they write that you should guard yourself from other cultures? If you do not have these so-called Neo-Nazi/Fascist ideas, there would be nobody left to keep the Norse culture alive! That is the Scandinavian Neo-Nazis' point with using the Norse culture's symbols etc. and the German Neo-Nazis' point with using whatever ancient culture they belong to's symbols and texts. --Erkekjetter 13:16, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Is that really true, wouldn't they have some contact with for instance Celts, Romans and Slavs? I read that Havamal was written in the 9th Century, and then already Ansgar, the first Christian missionary has travelled to Scandinavia.

A number of scientists believe that christianity and norse beliefs coexisted in Norway for several centuries. In the later part of the national romance period it seems like a lot of people fancy the idea of a viking warriors with heathen rituals in strange looking temples, although it is difficult to qualify such claims. It is a lot easier to explain the later norse beliefs if christianity and heathen beliefs coexisted.

To claim that the norse beliefs existed without any influence from abroad should be readilly dismissed anyhow. A lot of places in Norway trade goods are found, and a lot of this comes from places far away. The number of roman swords alone should be enough to dismiss any claims that Norway was an isolated nation.

— John Erling Blad (jeb) 04:16, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

What the hell does this have to do with everything? So you dislike Racialist Odinism? Doesn't have really give you the right to rant on about it here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.197.45.126 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Notes on timeline

September 17, 1993, Kriminalsjef Truls Fyhn tells press Varg Vikernes is to be put to trial for the killing of Øystein Aarseth, as a fingerprint in blood is connected to Varg Vikernes

— Bergens Tidende, September 18, 1993

September 27, 1993, Politiinspektør Sveinung Sponheim at Oslo Police tells Bergens Tidende that the church arsoning group is finished its work about Varg Vikernes. Sponheim says further: The killing of Øystein "Euronimous" Aarseth, arsoning of Åsane church, Holmenkollen chapel, and Skjold church in Vindafjord, attempted arsoning of church tower in Storetveit church, excessive explosives theft, (gravskjending) and collaboration to (murder by arsonning) in Stocholm. Only the arsoning of Fantoft stave church has been difficult for the police to proof.

— Bergens Tidende, September 28, 1993

May 13, 1994, "The court has found it beyond disbelief that Varg Vikernes is found guilty in arsoning Fantoft stave church. This is what the three juridical court members (juridiske fagdommere) said, førstelagmann Agnes Nygård Haug, ekstraordinær lagdommer Tor Holmøy, and herredsrettsdommer Torolv Groseth i Eidsivating."

"Still, the juridical court members accepted the jurys "not guilty" in the case if Varg Vikernes did commit arsonning of Fantoft stave church. The courts juridical members found that the verdict "not guilty" was obvious wrong, but because of (prosessøkonomiske hensyn) accepted the verdict."

"Because of this Varg Vikernes is found "not guilty" in a strict sense but found to be guilty by the judges."

— Bergens Tidende, May 14, 1994

October 19, 1994, High court rejects Varg Vikernes (anke) and the judgement is standing. That is maximum imprisonment for one (overlagt drap), three arsoning of churches, one attempted arsoning of a church, five burglaies, and one attemted burglary. Eidsivating lagmannsretts judgement of 21 years imprisonment is standing.

The verdict against 22 years old Snorre Ruch which been convicted in the same case to 8 years for collaborating in the killing of Øystein "Euronymous" Aarseth is also standing.

— Bergens Tidende, October 20, 1994

[edit] From the trial

A short excerpt from the trial as printed by Verdens Gang on May 6, 1994

A 18 years old swedish girl, had written in her diary "My Count is named Grishnack. He has bitten me. He has drunk my blood. I have drunk his. I shall be his Countess." This was later confirmed in court May 6.

— The count had told me he arsoned Fantoft stave church particularly because of the buildings age. Because it was so old, an imense power resided in the walls. By burning the church to the ground, the power should be transfered to him, told the now 20 years old girl in court.

That the church should be arsoned, the swedish girl claimed to know a long time before. As late as two and a half hour before the fire the count called the swedish girl.

— I was tired when he called. The count said he should arson a church before the dawn of light. In the morning I went to Oslo, and there I visited Øystein Aarseth (later to be killed, red). Together we watched TV and the news that Fantoft stave church was burnt to the ground during the night.

— I thought it was good.

Agtfjott 21:21, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

This girl has obviously misunderstood Vikernes' meaning of the title count.

Quote from Vikernes' Vargsmål (1994) (poorly translated by me from Norwegian to English):

"Count Grishnáckh". The reason for why I chose this name, was not to have a "cool" name. The word "count" derives from the Latin word "comtes", which means "partner" or "companion". I am the pure German people's partner and companion, and with that, I chose that title! One of my ancestors was named "Susanne Malene Qisling" (not "Quisling", but "Qisling"). "Qisling"/"Quisling" means "the one who derives from a side secion of the king's lineage".

This means that using an aristocratic for me, is not a that bad misuse as it would be for many others.

--Erkekjetter 12:54, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

This is a quote from a statement read from her diary, in the court. Agtfjott

- During the murder case, the 22-year-old Snorre Ruch was put on trial together with Varg Vikernes and sentenced to 8 years of imprisonment, although he had nothing to do with the killing of Euronymous.

This implies Ruch was either wrongly convicted, which is very serious claim to make without a reference, or he was convicted for something completely else, which would need either a reference as well or a removal. 194.157.87.200 08:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I fixed it. The speculation has been removed.

→ P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 17:23, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving misplaced links

A reference placed under external links, and vica verca. A band site should be an external link, a newspaper should be a reference.

Also going to add back a removed reference.

The reference to Metal reviews is removed because there is no way to qualify that this is the same person

User:Agtfjott

[edit] Random edits

It seemed kind of pointless to have the only picture of Vikernes smack in the middle of the article, so I moved it up. There wasn't a specific reason it was down there, was there?

I'm also making some spelling corrections as I see them.

I removed the following until I can figure out what it's trying to convey: As of 1999 Varg Vikernes has a debt to Oslo municipality and Gjensidige insurance company (now DnbNOR) of NOK13.5 million, after a trial in 1998, and at that point additional debts for other arsonings of about NOK23 million [1], although some sources use other figures. Is is Is 21:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

There should be a newer image of him but the one used was without a source or lisence.

His debts was in the original article but without references, and the figures was in error.

I beleve this is part of the complete story as it is describing one of several trials.

The lesser felonies isn't the church arsoning but a long list of additional felonies. As it reads now it seems like the church arsonings and the death of the fire fighter isn't important at all, yet this is what he is known for.

— John Erling Blad (jeb)

I just changed his current location, as the burzum website revealed on the 12/6 that he has been moved to Tromsø Prison 137.166.4.130 16:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I have edited this page to include Varg's criticism of J.R.R. Tolkein, the importantce of bathing in ancient Paganism, some translations for his book titles from Norwegian to English, and removed the reference to his tentative release from prison in April 2006, which did not happen. Fahle

Burzum's second album, Det Som Engang Var, was never released on DSP. Varg was originally going to let DSP release the album because the police took all of his address lists and Euronymous had just gotten a deal with Voices of Wonder to help with the release. However, Varg ended up starting his label, Cymophane, and releasing it himself.[2] I edited the appropriate sentence.--69.183.163.97 14:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

What is this nonsense about some guy in Wisconsin burning over 100 churches? That name doesn't show up anywhere else on the internet and has no source. Deleting.

This "Lord of the Rings" section is idiotic, and not even required...I'm tempted to delete the whole lot of it, but for now im just going to change this: "Vikernes has been fascinated with the fictional realm of Mordor from J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings from a very young age (his stage name is taken from that of a minor character in The Two Towers), claiming to have mastered the Black Speech from which he took the term Burzum:" "Ash nazg durbatulúk, ash nazg gimbatul,ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul." ("One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them.")" Who put that there... Isilioth 05:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music

There needs to be MUCH more about his music in this article. Could someone with the knowledge help us? 85.166.243.23

- There is no need for more music. There already is an article "Burzum" although i can agree there has to be something more to do with his music. but not in the way like, album releases, session musicians etc. I also believe the lyrical themes can be discussed in the page < but still, i think that belongs to Burzum page. it's about the person himself, not his music.

I know it's old but i wanted to clarify things a bit. Darksteel 13:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Varg and NSBM

For the record, Varg was not a key organiser of NSBM and that site is false. From a semi-recent interview.

In the recent years there has been a great raise of so called NSBM (National Socialistic Black Metal) bands which base their ideology and music upon NS, Nazi, Pagan/Heathen and Aryan ideas. What is Your opinion about them?

I don't know much about this, but what I do know is that at least these guys have the guts to be different and politically incorrect, unlike the spineless poser-bands in the "Black Metal" scene. At least NSBM has a point other than the brain-dead "sex, drugs & rock'n'roll" attitude in the rest of the metal scene.

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/interview01.shtml

Also, I don't think he was responsible for the formation of the Swedish Heathen Front.

[edit] vargsmal

OK i have added something about vargsmal, i hope some of you expand it.

[edit] Scumbag

I added the fact that he was a scumbag but someone removed it.Does anybody dispute this?

Yes, unless you can prove otherwise (not Mayhem fanboy/girl-ing) --XdiabolicalX 14:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

he is a scumbag because he is a neo-nazi who burned down churches and killed a man for which he has never shown remorse.

Quite possibly but Wikipedia is not the place for that.--XdiabolicalX 20:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course Vikernes is a scumbag. But Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and an encyclopdia must have neutral point of view, and thus using such loaded, POV language is innapropriate for an encyclopedia article. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view 4.156.24.192 20:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I dispute this. I don't think he is a scum bag at all

You dispute someone's opinion? Because there is nothing in the article about it. I think he is a mis guided young man. & sign comments. XdiabolicalX 19:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a member of the wikipedia family do I'll sign anonymous. Someone added that Varg was a scum bag and asked if anyone disputes this. I replied that I dispute it. - Anonymous

If you actually believe that Varg is a neo-Nazi, then you don't know the first thing about him nor about the nature and evolution of the Black Metal scene in the mid 90s. Do your research before you open your mouth on such a subject. It is so easy to randomly throw either the race card or the nazi card around and expect people to not say anything in fear of being accused of support of such ideologies, but some of us have a spine fortunately. Your ignorance, weak liberal views and your socially engineered beliefs are laughable. Climb into a hole and rot away. As for the article I will attempt to get it changed so that it properly displays his ideaology rather than being the victim of baseless name calling. - -Reaper-

Ok then what constitutes a scumbag? how many more people does he have to kill based upon his own twisted demoraled views? 4? 6? 6 million? You really do need some psychological help. 218.101.64.45 17:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Whatever anyones opinion is, be it he is a scumbag, he is a neo-nazi, he is a blah-blah, WIKIPEDIA serves the anonymous in a NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW WAY. Everyone can have their own opinions, but not on Wikipedia articles, how hard is it to understand that? no reason in debating whether or not he's this or that, Wiki is neutral and no one can insert an opinion. That's why it's an encyclopedia, there is no bias on these articles. Please, remember that. - Anonymous wiki user, 3/30/07

[edit] Vandalism

Looks like Varg's also a target for vandalism - I just removed references to his belief in unholy gnome armies and Varg's being a Celine Dion fan. I notice that before this he was rumored to be starting a project with Glen Benton and David Hasslehoff. 144.135.138.156 13:35, 26 August 2006 (EST)

I wish people would also stop putting Fascism Fascism Fascism in because Varg makes little or even no references to Fascism in his books or whatever else. Since no one can call him Nazi anymore, it seems like they're branding him with this. Fascism originated in Italy and it seems to be a political ideology putting race above culture with little connonations to Scandinavian or Germanic culture, no matter what the Nazis did. Varg even said he believed in a form of Norse democracy which is completely the opposite of autocratic fascism.

Removing "nazi views". according to www.burzum.org : "What makes me different from the "nazis" are basically three things; unlike them I am not socialistic (not even on a national level), I am not materialistic and I believe in (the ancient Scandinavian!) democracy. So, since I am not a "nazi" I began to use another term, in the late 90ies" Marxmax 17:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Majstorovic

Novak Majstorovic of Schwarzreich did not burn down the last two churches on the list. He has been released but into police custody. Please find a relevant news article to support any claims for that reference to be there.

• I don't even know why we need these on this page, they have nothing to do with Varg' XdiabolicalX 02:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The media seem to think otherwise, they blamed Vikernes' 'influence' as the reason for Majstorovic torching the church.

• as you probably know the media think a lot of things wich aren't true in order to sell more. XdiabolicalX 22:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

and they are super powerful. it influenced his case greatly

I read about this guy, he's alright and I think an article should be created about him n his band —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.107.182.227 (talk) 04:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Category: Anti-Semitic People

Does anybody have evidence Varg's anti-semitic? He maybe against Judaism and Christianity as religions, but I can't see any proof that he hates the Jews as a race. (or atleast he doesn't hate them more than other Non-Germanic races). Anti-Judaism/Christianity ≠ Anti-Semitism.

It's just over-zealous leftist people putting another person in the Anti-Semitism category because they criticise Judaism or Israel or whatever. Varg never makes a reference to Jews as a people, only to Judeo-Christianity. I've removed it because it's completely stupid.

[edit] Reference to the Porvoo cathedral arson

I am removing the sentence "According to District Attorney Petri Vaaja, the motivation of the arsonist was 'virulent hatred towards Christianity'" and the link to the Iltalehti website from the reference to the 2006 arson of the Porvoo cathedral in Finland from the "related news" section. The sentence violates the neutral point of view policy of Wikipedia. The attorney's claims were based on a misinterpretation of the suspect's statement: "I am critical about religion but not hostile." Also, a complaint was made to the Council of the Public Word about the biased point of view of the news concerning the case. [3]