Talk:Vassar College

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Contents 1 campus media 2 Page arrangement 3 Male graduates before 1969 4 Bias 5 Bias ? 6 Academic List 7 Relevance? 8 Vague puffery 9 Famous Parents of Alumni/Alumnae 9.1 Famous Parents of Alumni/Alumnae 10 Relevance of Congressional Representation

[edit] campus media

Ok, so this is pissing me off, but I'll defer to others:

I added a new media section, thereby moving the section on the Misc to a more appropriate area (the Misc doesn't belong in the Overview of Vassar College). I also put in a mention of a new campus medium: Pink/Grey, a Vassar blog. Any mention of P/G keeps getting deleted. This is Wikipedia! This is a place where new media should be championed, not deleted.

If you agree with me, respond here and revert those changes. If you think I'm wrong, then respond here. Vcdevx99 03:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)Vcdevx99

I strongly disagree. The Wikipedia site is not about championing ANYTHING. While the philosophy behind Wikipedia may champion new media, this is still an encyclopedia, and not a forum for self-promotion. The blog should NOT be included, unless it is a notable and significant part of Vassar life. Djdickmutt 07:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, so keep a mention of the blog out. Fine. But what about moving the part on the Misc to a more appropriate area?

Or here's another question: Why not do a section on campus media and talk about the tons of publications on campus? Squirm isn't there, but it was cited by the NY Times Magazine as the leading college sex/porn publication. What about the MICA/ghetto controversy? What about "Felch" and the resulting conversations all over campus? What about OnCampus (now available online) or the new VSA publication mentioning what Council is up to? The Misc isn't alone out there! Vcdevx99 01:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)Vcdevx99

I think that's not a bad idea. If you want to create an appropriate section for official Vassar campus publications, go for it. But I'd stick with publications supported by Vassar and the VSA, and keep it strictly informational, and not promotional. Good luck! Djdickmutt 18:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page arrangement

I moved the "Faculty" section up above the "Famous Alumni" section, but it seems this page needs some further reorganization. Honestly, I find it embarrassing (as an alum) that the list of "Famous alumni" is so prominent in this article. There are certainly more important things about Vassar than who went there. The article should focus more on things such as faculty, academic programs, history, etc. I'd like to suggest that the "famous alumni" section be broken off into its own page, if people feel that it's necessary to list every darn one of 'em. Gsd97jks 01:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

i'd agree with simply cutting this list/section out and making it a new page perhaps leaving behind something to the extent of "Several well known names from the arts and sciences have graduated from or attended Vassar College. An (overly) extensive list can be found [link|here]." while perhaps deleting 'overly' Does anybody have strong objections to this or input on how best to do it, or what to say on the main page instead? --Jowe 00:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

also, vassar has a website here http://innovators.vassar.edu/gallery.html of vassar related innovators. could be useful to add to page as well. have link to seperate page on alumni and say, "Vassar also maintains a page of interesting accomplishments by alumni here" --Jowe 02:09, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd give it another week and if no objections just do it. This thread has been here for almost 3 months now. Gsd97jks 13:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that Wikipedia's verifiability policy, linked under every edit box, requires that all Wikipedia content must be traceable to a published source, and the source must be cited. In the case of alumni lists, this means that every name on the list needs to have a citation showing that the person attended Vassar. If the person is the subject of a Wikipedia article that says she or he attended Vassar and that article gives a source for the fact, that source should be copied into this article; the page link itself won't do, as WIkipedia articles are not considered reliable sources for other Wikipedia articles.

The policy applies to everything in Wikipedia, of course, but the reason I lay particular stress on alumni lists is that they frequently attract casual additions of carelessly researched entries. Most of the entries are almost certainly valid, but sources need to be supplied anyway. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Male graduates before 1969

I've added mention to the 'trivia' section regarding men who matriculated at vassar immediately after world war II on the GI bill. I suppose this could be classified as 'original research', not sure. My father was in that first graduating class that included men (eleven of them). A scan of the relevant portion of the program from the graduation ceremonies can be found here [1]. again, if this constitutes original research, i guess it can be pulled, though it is a rather fascinating bit of history. Anastrophe 22:30, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

There are many abundantly clear examples of bias in this article: “Vassar is often praised for its beautiful campus, a 1000 acre (4 km?) lot of land marked by period and modern buildings that is also an arboretum; since that time, it has maintained its reputation as one of America's outstanding liberal arts colleges, and is especially noted for its tolerant social atmosphere; the college is a member of the "Little Ivies," an unaffiliated group of elite northeastern liberal arts colleges; Vassar is a leader in producing doctoral candidates; Vassar students are well known for their individuality, creativity, and open-mindedness; many beautiful old brick buildings are scattered throughout the bucolic campus, but there are also several modern and contemporary structures worth noting." Did this come straight from the College’s website? Courier new 22:07, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias ?

I disagree with the above allegation of bias in the article. I found no similarity between the Vassar Web site and the article. The information in question - the attractiveness of the campus - seems fairly innocuous and is fairly similar to the type of information in Wikipedia articles about other liberal arts colleges and several universities. The article reads like synopsis of commercially available background information in colleges guide books. While I would have written the main paragraph differently, I hardly think this qualifies as biased, and without some criteria to differentiate this page from other pages on other schools, I believe the objection should be removed from this page.

The article violates Wikipedia's NPOV policy, clearly. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, a place to find innformation, not a forum for opinions. If you are unwilling to make changes, then I will go ahead and make them myself. Also, you should leave you name when commenting. Courier new 01:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, I realize that the article is not up to date and violates Wikipedia's policy against personal research (ie, students spend time doing ceratin activities on a certain lawn). Courier new 01:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I do agree that much of the information on this page is somewhat biased. And the architectural info came from me, not the college's website - so, my apologies for lack of "neutrality" there. However, if you edit the page to remove said "bias", please re-read your edits before saving the page. Simply removing phrases and not doing a little copyedit makes the page read poorly. I have made some minor edits just so that it reads a little cleaner, hopefully not restoring anything that you feel is biased. I think the bigger issue is that this page has become a series of lists (academic majors, famous alums, residence halls) with little encyclopedic content and is an embarrasment compared to other articles about comparable schools. Someone please help to fix this article! Gsd97jks 02:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Academic List

I deleted the list of academic departments as i don't see a need to say that yes, Vassar does indeed have biology and english and such - tho i did keep the other interesting tidbits. Sorry if i stepped on anyone's toes, please edit it and add anything of interest that i may have cut out, but please don't just revert the whole long list. or discuss changes here... --Jowe 01:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance?

Speaking as someone who didn't attend Vassar, is there any reason to list all the student housing here? I can't imagine that's useful information for any more than a couple of people.

• Dorm affiliation is an enormous part of being a student at Vassar, and from what I can tell, many other articles on colleges list their student housing. At Vassar and other colleges without fraternities, the residential houses act as communities more than simply a place to park your stuff.--tufkaa 15:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• I'm an alum, and I question the relevance of this as well. It's true that dorm affiliation is relevant for some people at Vassar, but I don't think it's really relevant to an encyclopedia. Personally, I would hope there are more pertinent things to say in an article about Vassar than "Josselyn had the distinction of being the first residence hall on campus to have showers."Croctotheface 02:18, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• The big problem I have with this section is that it is at least flirting with copyright violation, since most of the content is almost identical to the content at the cited web pages; e.g.
  • (Wikipedia)

Josselyn House was designed by Francis Allen and completed in 1912. It was the gift of Mrs. Russell Sage who named the building in honor of her mother. Josselyn had the distinction of being the first residence hall on campus to have showers. With its U–shaped construction and its battlements, Josselyn resembles Jewett House in style. Its current capacity is 237 students.

• • (http://residentiallife.vassar.edu/josselyn.html)

Olivia Josselyn House was designed by Francis Allen and completed in 1912. It was the gift of Mrs. Russell Sage who named the building in honor of her mother. Josselyn had the distinction of being the first residence hall on campus to have showers. With its U–shaped construction and its battlements, Josselyn resembles Jewett, sans tower. Its current capacity is 237 students

Dpbsmith (talk) 17:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Ack! That's CLEAR copyright violation and clear plagiarism. I'm deleting the section. Croctotheface 19:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you did the right thing. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for eliminating the copy-vio. Will someone re-insert this information in a non-controversial manner?--tufkaa 04:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vague puffery

• Vassar is one of the nation's leaders in producing candidates for graduate school, law school, medical school, and business school. It is known for having high-caliber students, an engaging and scholarly faculty base, strong alumni/alumnae connections, and small class sizes.

This needs to be reworded and given a proper source. As it stands, both of these sentences are good examples of peacock and weasel terms.

"One of the nation's leaders" is vacuously true. There's no way of telling whether this is supposed to mean "in the top three" or "in the top fifty." As worded, it's no more than a vague compliment to Vassar, and as such is a small but real violation of the neutrality policy and the academic boosterism guideline.

"It is known for having" all that good stuff can't stand on the personal authority of an editor. We need to know who, exactly, testifies to its being "known" for these things. The alumni association? The Vassar admissions department? The Carnegie foundation? Dpbsmith (talk) 20:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Parents of Alumni/Alumnae

This is far too subtrivial to be in the article. It tells us nothing whatsoever about Vassar. What next, "list of people that can be connected to Vassar by six degrees of separation?" Dpbsmith (talk) 17:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Parents of Alumni/Alumnae

Many current and former Vassar College students are children of famous people. Here's a list of some parents and students of Vassar College:

• Andrew Bergman, screenwriter/director
• Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City, businessman
• Bob Dolman, screenwriter
• Mike Farrell, actor
• F. Scott Fitzgerald, writer
• Tom Hanks, actor
• Carolina Herrera, fashion designer
• Samuel L. Jackson, actor
• Stephen King, writer
• Jim Lehrer, news anchor
• Andrea Martin, actress
• Rupert Murdoch, CEO of News Corporation
• Randy Newman, artist
• Randy Quaid, actor
• Regis Philbin, television host
• John Ritter, actor
• Meryl Streep (alumna), actress
• Wesley Strick, screenwriter
• Sally Struthers, actress
• Lisa Kudrow, actress

[edit] Relevance of Congressional Representation

Does it really matter who the congressman is for the district the college is in? The college may be liberal, but most college students don't vote in their colleges districts.