User talk:VerruckteDan

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Archives 1) Feb. 9, 2006 - Dec. 26, 2006 2) Dec.26, 2006 - Mar. 13, 2006

Contents 1 New York Template 2 George Shepley (and order in infoboxes) 3 Featured! 4 Locator map 5 Township set up 6 Making Maps 7 re: US county navbox

[edit] New York Template

Hi there. I notice you are removing the {{New_York}} state template from many counties and localities. Could you please point me to the consensus or WP guideline that says these should be removed? I feel that they add something to the articles, by giving a state-wide context to the pages. Thanks. -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 12:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, sorry if I stepped on your toes with these edits, but let me explain my thought process and reasoning. I removed the {{New York}} template for these reasons:

1. Per WP:NAV Paragraph 1 (after the bullets), the general advice is to avoid navigation boxes that are too big. While the {{New York}} template itself is not too big, when used in combination with the navigation box for a particular county, they take up a sizable amount of space. This is more important on articles that are quite short, where 2 navigation boxes would overwhelm the page and distract from the content.
2. My experience with navigation boxes is that they exist on pages in which they have a corresponding link. I feel the state-wide context that you are looking for is still maintained without the {{New York}} template by both the county template and the categories of the article. The county template includes links to the county's article, the New York article, and the article explaining the municipal units of NYS. Coupled with categories which link to the listing of all for example, a user is only ever one click away from a state-wide context. I feel that keeping navigation templates only on pages that they link to, makes the article neater, more consice, and easier to use.
3. I was aiming for consistency across New York municipalities. The majority of articles I've looked at on NYS cities, towns, village, etc. did not include the {{New York}} template.

So, that's my approach to the situation. If you still disagree, let me know. VerruckteDan 14:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I definitely know what you mean by the articles getting overwhelmed with templates. You're not stepping on my toes or anything, it just seemed like you had made a lot of changes and I couldn't see a discussion about it, so I had wondered if I had missed it. Could we reach some sort of middle ground, do you think? While I agree that localities (towns, cities, villages, etc.) are maybe too far down the hierarchy to warrant it, I think I would like to see it on the county articles. Is that an appropriate level, in your opinion? Thanks -- Alucard (Dr.) | Talk 14:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh definately, I totally agree that it should be on the county articles. If I removed it from a county, thats my mistake, as it was my intention to have the {{New York}} template on all NYS county articles. VerruckteDan 14:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] George Shepley (and order in infoboxes)

First, thank you for working on Louisiana Governors--it is nice to have company :)

Second, I appreciate your correcting the order of the offices of George F. Shepley because I was not sure;but can you point to the discussion where this consensus was reached. All I can find is questions on talk pages, but no conclusions. Thanks, again! Argos'Dad 03:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to find a written consensus as well, and have been unsuccessful. However, every article I've checked for both living and dead politicians, the infobox always has the offices listed in reverse chronological order. I view that as a defacto consensus. The logic behind such listing, at least in my mind would be that most politicians advance to more prominent positions during their careers, are known for those positions, and hence the reverse order places their most prominent role at the top of the box. Anyway, that's my take, I'd be open to a discussion on the infobox's talk page if you want. I won't be around much for the next couple days, so if you're interested in getting a firm consensus on the matter, what would you say to waiting until next Monday to start? VerruckteDan 04:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

PS. Let me thank you as well for your work on the Governors.

The logic you suggest makes sense and defacto consensus is fine with me, but we should formalize it somewhere (like the talk page on the infobox) so others will know why we are doing it this way. I am happy to wait till you are back, too. Thanks! Argos'Dad 15:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Shifting away from the infoboxes, I noticed you placed some more numbers in the order of governors. I had left them blank to resolve what the official numbers are. The problem is the Civil War era governors. Thomas Moore and Hnery Allen were the governors of COnfederate Louisiana and George Shepley and Michael Hahn were Union governors during the same time period. So I don't think its accurate to list these 4 as the 17th-20th governors and then start listing Reconstruciton-era governors as 21. Do you know of any resourse that has a listing of the governors with their official order? I've done some searching online, but nothing too exhaustive yet. So far, things I've found are contradictory, for example Huey P Long being the 35th Governor and Oscar Allen as the 42nd (even thought there's only one governor between them). Anyway, a topic that needs to be research more. VerruckteDan 15:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I also struggled with this for a while, but the National Governor's Assocation website] numbers them this way, so I went ahead and followed their logic.

It is confusing when you had two Governors serving at once, but I also see how each of them was a "Governor of Louisiana" and if you place them in ordinal series according tothe date they were inaugurated, it kind of works. If you have an alternative order, I would be happy to defer, as long as each of them is numbered. I tried to play with "1st Confederate Governor" or other constructions, but at the end of the day, Governor Kellogg has to be numbered and so a hiatus or a double numbering system probably doesn't work here.Argos'Dad 17:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured!

CONGRATULATIONS! Did you see the list is now featured? They don't leave a talk page message, just put the star on the list and the FL notice on the talk page. Anyway, Thanks for all your hard work on the list and articles. I will leave thank yous for Peer Review and FLC feedback folks (unless you want to - I have an idea for the template similar to what I did for LC and WDHC thanks). Congrats again! Ruhrfisch 17:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

	Thanks again for your contributions, support, and comments - List of Pennsylvania state parks made featured list! Take care, Ruhrfisch 17:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Locator map

Hope you don't mind this notice, I saw your posts relating Illinois State Parks … There exists the {{Geobox Protected Area}} template, which you might want to use for them as well. It uses the same logic as {{Geobox Settlement}}, the same field names and has the same layout, it can also make use of the same calibrated map. Actually, this is the basic idea behind the Geoboxes, to provide a uniform infoboxes for all geography related articles. – Caroig (talk) 20:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I had seen the Geobox Protected Area and was going to discuss it with Dincher and Ruhrfisch, the 2 guys that I worked with on Pennsylvania state parks. VerruckteDan 20:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted you to know it exists. I'm going to (well, hoping to get to it) cover the protected areas in the piece of Europe I live in so I'm following more such projects to tell me how to do that, I like reading about the protected areas in Pennsylvania. Ruhrfisch helped with a lot of resourceful ideas when I was creating the first Geobox, {{Geobox River}}. – Caroig (talk) 20:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Township set up

I have another question for you. I see that you were involved with the townships also for Penn. I was wondering, do you have a bot or know who does that can set up the rest of the townships for Illinois? I have been manually doing it, and I must say it is rough. Here is our list Wikipedia:WikiProject Illinois/Townships of stuff we still have to do, and what we have done already. Basically we have EIU and SIU still to do on this map [1]. Thoughts? Suggestions?--Kranar drogin 03:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know anyone that definitely has a bot, I should really look into the process of setting one up myself. But, all the PA township articles appear to have been create by Ram-Man who seems to still be active. The original PA edits included the geographic and demographic information. Another bot laster added in the categories. So you might try contacting him/her for additional guidance. I'd be interested in hearing the results of these discussions. VerruckteDan 03:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I tried once before, he ignored me. I will try again.--Kranar drogin 03:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess if the bot is not being regularly monitored by someone, you could start looking around Wikipedia:Bot policy and see how to create a bot yourself, or submit a request for such a bot. VerruckteDan 03:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Making Maps

Hi Dan, I made a Louisiana map for you - I have also made a Image:North Carolina Locator Map.PNG for User:Dincher in addition to the Pennsylvania and Illinois locator maps you know about (though I might redo the Pennsylvania map so it is cleaner). I plan to do an Ohio locator map next.

Here's how I make the maps - basically they are all from the Census factfinder web site here. I always use the 2000 census data and if I enter "Ohio", I get this. Next I go to the upper left corner under "Change", click there on "Boundaries and Features" and turn off all labels and all features except the state and county borders (boundaries). Then I get this. I copy the map (right click, or control and Print Screen) then paste that into MS Paint or Paint Dot Net and change the colors so they are consistent with the WikiProject Maps guidleines - I started with the Image:US Locator Blank.svg for its colors. I put a one pixel wide black line around the maps and save them in PNG format in Wikimedia Commons (I have an account there too).

What I like about the maps is that they are US Government work and so public domain (and I release my modifications under the GFDL). You can zoom in a lot, add streets and water and township and city borders in. Some other examples I have made starting with these are here: Image:Larrys Creek Watershed Map.PNG (started from county and township borders and creeks in the census map), Image:Fort Wayne Indiana Metro Map.PNG (several counties, left the urban areas pink), and my most ambitious county map Image:Lancaster County, PA.PNG. Hope this helps, ask if you have questions. Ruhrfisch 19:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation, I will give it a try this week. One quick thing on the Louisiana map (and maybe I'll give this a try myself), can you modify it so that Lakes Pontchartrain and Maurepas are shown (both are near New Orleans). A lot of Parish boundaries meet in both lakes, and its been brought up that maps not showing the lakes are misleading to the sizes of parishes that contain portions of theses lakes. VerruckteDan 19:36, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I will try - turning off the water bodies (rivers) also turns off the lakes, but I will see what I can do about putting them in. I know where Pinchartrain is, but will have to check on Maurepas. Ruhrfisch 02:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Lake Maurepas is directly to the west of Lake Pontchartrain, who can see it on the picture on Pontchartrain's article. Also, if you look at Image:St_Charles_Parish_Louisiana.png, you can see an example of a map showing both lakes. VerruckteDan 02:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I fixed it and added the crescent of islands in Gulf to the east (cut off before - sorry). For some strange reason Maurepas shows up on the Census maps with water bodies turned on, but Ponchartrain only shows at 20 mile across resolution. Thanks for calrifying, I knew about Lake Borgne (from Chalmette / Battle of New Orleans) but not the name of Lake Maurepas. I also made Indiana and Ohio locator maps. Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: US county navbox

No problem. Similar things happen to me sometimes myself.

Also, I might have make some modifications to the template so the map images are optional. In trying to test some for the California counties, the CA maps do not appear too well on a thumbnail scale, especially the smaller counties in terms of area. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 17:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean about the maps, especially with large states and states that have large north-south lengths (and of course California has both). I probably should have named the parameter image as opposed to map. Since the template is still used on a minimal number of navboxes, I was considering updating this to allow flexibility. Ideally, if maps are not used, I'd like to see county flags inorder to have consistancy with the state templates. Just my thoughts, I'm not even sure if all counties have flags or how long it may be to get images of them on Wikipedia. VerruckteDan 17:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)