Talk:Viking Age

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Archives Archive 1(What is a viking?) Archive 2 (Rollo debate)

Contents 1 Wales 2 Expert needed 3 Viking heritage of the Rurik dynasty 4 Did Rurik found Novgorod? 5 Merge "Vikings" and "Viking Age"? 6 Lot's to improve in this article

[edit] Wales

How can you found a city through raiding? Inge 15:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

To clarify; the text tells us that "Wales was not colonised", but that "The Vikings, did, however, begin to settle in the southwest around St. David's and Haverfordwest, most of Gower and Glamorgan and through raids Sweyne Forkbeard founded the modern city of Swansea."

This will depend on how you define colonising, but when vikings settle in the area and no doubt they had trade connections with other viking settled territories that comes very close. I feel categorically stating that Wales was not colonised might be out of place. I also think it would be very difficult to found a city through raiding. A raid is a short engagement and a city is a very permanent institution. If a king is to found a city he has to have permanent control of the site. I would certainly like that part to be explained more. Did local people migrate to sites comonly raided by vikings? Not very likely. Or were they sites for seasonal marked places established or used by vikings? In that case raiding is the wrong word. Inge 18:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. I've amended the paragraph to this:

Wales was not colonised by the Vikings as heavily as eastern England and Ireland. The Vikings did, however, settle in the south around St. David's, Haverfordwest, and Gower, among other places. Place names such as Skokholm, Skomer, and Swansea remain as evidence of the Norse settlement. The Vikings, however, did not subdue the Welsh mountain kingdoms.

By the way, I don't believe that Sweyn Forkbeard founded Swansea in the slightest or indeed that he ever went there. The derivation is undoubtedly from "Sweyn's ey" (Sweyn's island), but it's not as if the Vikings were short of other Sweyns to name settlements after. I should think Swansea was founded long before Forky's time.qp10qp 17:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I've just added a section on the influence of Viking settlement on the English language. This may go some way to helping show that Norse settlers in England were assimilated by the local population, which they wouldn't have been if they were all marauders and pirates.qp10qp 19:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Nicely done! The article Viking has those paragraphs as well including the problems you have corrected here. If you have the time maybe you could take a look there as well? Inge 11:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expert needed

The article has previously been subject of reverts wars. Now it would need serious reference check and inline quotations. There are also a lot of ^{[citation needed]} tags. / Fred-Chess 19:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Viking heritage of the Rurik dynasty

The Rurik dynasty's Viking heritage, alluded to here, is a topic of substantial controversy amongst Russian historians. I am not qualified to speak out on the subject but a professional historian of Russia should craft a more nuanced and informed statement on the subject.

[edit] Did Rurik found Novgorod?

Rurik most certainly did not found Novgorod in 859. In fact, archaelogy seems to suggest this town existed before Rurik was born. Goliath74 17:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge "Vikings" and "Viking Age"?

The articles Viking age and Vikings cover almost identical issues and should be merged. Any comments? Cheers Osli73 21:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The article "Viking" should only short describe what a Viking was, Modern revivals and Popular misconceptions and stuff like that. --Arigato1 22:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Nooooo Viking age covers most of the attempted destruction of Western Europe by the Northmen not just the Svens and Ronalds themselves. Brendandh 20:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Disagree. They should not be merged. Vikings should be about the people. Viking Age should be a historical discussion that focuses on the events. --Einar 20:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll add another Nooooo and agree with Einar. Brendandh 21:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

No merge, but there is allot in "Vikings" like historical event witch should be deleted and removed to "Viking age". --Arigato1 21:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear all, Let me explain the reason for my proposal again. The reason I suggested a merge is that the Viking Age is typically the name given to the historical period (roughly 800-1050 or so) in Scandinavian history. So, if the article is to discuss the Viking age it should really be discussing the history of the Scandinavian countries during this period. However, as is, the article Viking Age currently focuses mainly on events during this period in the countries they 'visited'. In my mind it would be a lot better to just have a single article called Vikings, explaining who they were and their effects on other European countries. The article would then not deal with the Viking Age in any of the Scandinavian countries. I doubt most readers will see the fine line between Vikings and Viking Age. I'm sorry if this upsets a lot of people who have put a lot of work into either of the two articles. However, I think that 'specialist topics' (effects of the Vikings on a specific country, such as present day UK) can be covered more in detail in separate, linked, articles. Regards Osli73 10:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

When i think again, i agree with you. There is no such thing as the "Viking age", you can say the "Viking time" (witch only is a term), but not "Viking age" -that's only make the hole article confusing. Vikings were people from Scandinavia during a period of the "Iron age". I have never heard the expression "Viking age" before i readed en.wikipedia.

I agree in merging with Vikings. --Arigato1 20:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, technically I guess the Viking age was a part of the Iron age. However, at least in Sweden, the Viking age is an accepted term for the period 800-1050. However, I'm not so sure it was an 'age' in European history. Cheers Osli73 21:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Disagree-- The "Viking" article covers a completely different aspect, and as such, should not be merged. Nol888_(Talk)^{(Review me please)} 21:14, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lot's to improve in this article

Even for an amateur historian of the Viking age it is quite apparent that this article generally is of rather low quality. Some of the more striking faults:

1. the introduction fails to give the generally accepted time period of the Vikinga age (800-1050)
2. the 'Viking Age' as a historical period is really only used to describe the period in Scandinavia. Eg while the 'Viking age' is a period is in Swedish history it is not so in say French, German or Russian history.
3. A lot of what is written in this article fits better into the Vikings article. In fact, I would suggest merging the two articles.
4. There are relatively few sources/references to the text.
5. The article is too Anglo-centric with very little mention of the effects of the Vikings on Russia and the Baltics.

Osli73 16:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)