Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed Drinks

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Add a new comment at the bottom of this page, and please remember to sign and date your submissions. Use the shortcut ~~~~ to do so automatically.

This mixed drink or bartending-related article is supported by the Mixed Drinks WikiProject, a project to improve Wikipedia's materials related to mixed drinks, bartending, and related subjects.

If you feel this page is substandard and are considering deletion—please don't. For GFDL license compliance, we need to keep the edit history intact in case there is any information worth merging elsewhere. Instead, please add or set the class of this template to MergeDel (i.e., {{WPMIX|class=MergeDel}}), and then note the reason below in a section titled "Removal Requested". This identifies the page as a high priority for review and likely removal through merging and redirection by our project participants. You may also discuss the matter on our project talk page. Thanks.

Shortcut: WP:MIXTALK

1 Archived Discussions
2 Possible resources
3 Wikipedia Day Awards
4 SFD notification
5 Proposed WikiProject Name Change
6 Measurement format
7 Mixed drinks and related drinkware?
8 Acceptable source websites & notability criteria

[edit] Archived Discussions

Older discussions have been archived:

April 2006 - December 2006
January 2007 - ?

Please start new comments below.

[edit] Possible resources

A couple sites that give information or history of or about cocktails which may be of use to the project,

-- Ari 19:36, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Very nice resources to have. Thank you! :-) --Willscrlt 20:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

A parallal bartenders wiki has been in development for the last year by the bartenders over at Webtender . Its major value can be found in the exhaustive research on the history and origins of classic cocktails, (200+ full articles now, heavy on attribution) while the spirit entries are just copies or built upon the wikipedia originals. Bits of a bartenders handbook are also in progress. I encouraged finding some way to merge or at least cross-reference our efforts there with the resources here, and maybe now that some structure is being put in place we can find a way for that to happen. any contribution the editors here may have to the webtender forums may be appreciated -- Dan (Melonman)

Sounds good. I will have to check that out. :-) Is all the information at Webtender GFDL licensed, or at least something compatible with GFDL? I suppose so if some of it originally came from the English Wikipedia. Thanks for the info. --Willscrlt 23:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SFD notification

This message is to notify you that numerous stub templates and categories that are associated with this WikiProject ({{cocktail-stub}}, Cat:Cocktails (stubs), Cat:Cocktail stubs, {{cocktail-expand}}, Cat:Cocktails (expand), {{cocktail-micro}} and Cat:Cocktails (micro)) are up for deletion at WP:SFD. Please join the discussion. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 16:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

For everyone's information, these are templates and categories that I created early on to help get a grip on the cocktails articles for the Cleanup Project. It was pointed out to me that properly assessing articles using established standards results in much better information that is more useful overall. To that end, I have started an Assessment Department based on the The Beatles WikiProject's version, but I could really use some help--especially from anyone with experience in esoteric template design and parser functions. The templates and categories above will almost certainly be deleted, and that is fine. --Willscrlt 02:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject Name Change

Proposal

Rename this WikiProject from WikiProject Cocktails to WikiProject Mixed Drinks to more closely match the scope of the WikiProject and update all relevant pages, templates, categories, links, etc. Proposed by Willscrlt 07:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Outcome

Voting was ended early due to input from all but two currently active Participants, with 100% unanimous approval of the proposal. The name was changed on January 17, 2007.

A clarification of the Project's scope included within the proposal is worth noting:

“

WikiProject Soft drinks and WikiProject Mixed Drinks would have some overlap among the non-alcoholic drinks, mostly when it comes to drink mixers, which include soda pops and other soft drinks. That could lead to turf wars, where Participants attempt to claim ownership or other rights over an article. Such claims of ownership are ridiculous since nobody owns any articles, whether an individual or a WikiProject. Further, the two WikiProjects are siblings, and are working for common goals. To avoid such disputes, ... any article concerning an individual drink product (say, lemonade or carbonated water) falls under the primary oversight by the Soft Drinks project, and any drink created by mixing any two drinks together, like sparkling lemonade (lemonade mixed with carbonated water) would fall under the primary oversight of the Mixed Drinks project. The same holds true for WikiProject Beer, WikiProject Wine, or any others.

”

This discussion has been archived. Please do not modify it.

The following is an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Background

When this WikiProject was created, the centerpiece article was the List of cocktails article. It was a long, comprehensive (or at least it included lots, and lots of entries), clutter-filled list of many drinks (including some fictional ones), some of which were actually true cocktails. It also included shooters, drink mixers, non-alcoholic cocktails, and garnishes. In early December, I thought I'd make an attempt at cleaning up the mess a little bit. Well over a thousand edits later, the list looks a lot better. Several new articles/lists have been created, each focused on a different type of mixed drink. Beer mix, Cocktail garnish, Drink mixer, Flaming beverage, Mixed drink shooters and drink shots, Non-alcoholic mixed drinks, and Wine mix are all forks off of the original List of cocktails. Additionally, there is a fair amount of information that I have located that ties together various mixed drinks and the drinkware in which they are served (see commons:Category:Drinkware for over 40 new images I created to illustrate the articles).

It is clear that "cocktails" no longer clearly or properly identifies all articles covered under the Scope of this WikiProject. In fact, it never did. I can't speak for the creator of the Project (hopefully she will chime in), but it appears that the name was chosen for the most recognizable member of the mixed drink family (cocktails), and also the largest list in Wikipedia within that same family. While there is something to be said for that logic, it does not address the fact that the Project is much larger than the name implies.

Some concerns I see are:

WikiProject Soft drinks and WikiProject Mixed Drinks would have some overlap among the non-alcoholic drinks, mostly when it comes to drink mixers, which include soda pops and other soft drinks. That could lead to turf wars, where Participants attempt to claim ownership or other rights over an article. Such claims of ownership are ridiculous since nobody owns any articles, whether an individual or a WikiProject. Further, the two WikiProjects are siblings, and are working for common goals. To avoid such disputes, part of my proposal is that, subject to agreement by the Soft Drinks project, any article concerning an individual drink product (say, lemonade or carbonated water) falls under the primary oversight by the Soft Drinks project, and any drink created by mixing any two drinks together, like sparkling lemonade (lemonade mixed with carbonated water) would fall under the primary oversight of the Mixed Drinks project. The same holds true for WikiProject Beer, WikiProject Wine, or any others.
Some articles, such as Amaretto, do not currently belong to a WikiProject (though WikiProject Alcoholic Beverages is under proposal, and it might apply), but they do contain information about several related mixed drinks. At this time, there would be no confusion if the Mixed Drinks projects adopted the primary oversight of this article.
When oversight is shared by multiple WikiProjects, the primary project should place its banner on the talk page of the article. Hopefully their banners will be able to also incorporate the mention of our project in their banner, just as we plan to include sibling WikiProjects in our banner. That way, it will be easy to tell which WikiProject is primary, and which other Projects are related, but avoids turf wars or excessive tagging.
We could lose some recognition by changing the name. Most people know what a cocktail is, but fewer people may realize that a mixed drink includes cocktails, punches, virgin cocktails, beer mixes, etc. It's more inclusive, thus more vague. I think we could include the current "Cocktails" neon sign logo in our banners to help make the connection stronger (I created the logo, so I am biased), but that might offend or turn away recovering alcoholics, children, or non-drinkers who do not wish to associate with such things.
I have been unable to determine exactly how a WikiProject goes about changing its name properly. I know there is an approval process to become created in the first place. Does a project have to also be approved for a name change? The last thing I want is to run afoul of any Wikipedia policies. I have posted the question to the WikiProject Food and drink discussion area, but there has been no response yet. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
There will be a lot of renaming and editing to update everything from WikiProject Cocktails' to WikiProject Mixed Drinks, such as links, templates, categories, etc. Assuming that the name change is accepted, some help from people really familiar with AWB or programming a bot to help with those changes will be very, very much appreciated if not absolutely necessary.

[edit] Agree to the rename

If you support renaming this WikiProject from Cocktails to Mixed Drinks place your vote underneath in this format: "* '''AGREE''' - Your reasons. --~~~~". Adding your reasons for agreeing is as important as the vote itself.

AGREE - Obviously. :-) --Willscrlt 07:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
AGREE - and I believe the Wikipedia:WikiProject Soft drinks would agree to the suggestion about scope above as well. Badbilltucker 14:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
AGREE - and don't see any complications with some overlap between projects on items that could be considered under various headings/categories/projects. SkierRMH 20:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree more accurate and sounds better. Rever e ndG 02:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
AGREE - Sounds better and more comprehensive than current title. Jacobshaven3 20:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree - Indeed, new name is more comprehensive, Brz7 23:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree - If it were a purely semantic issue I would oppose, as "Cocktails" is both more descriptive and more well known than "Mixed Drinks" (although, as demonstrated, not as accurate). However other reasons have been explained which overpowers this rather feble point. Agree. Happy-melon 21:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose the rename

If you oppose renaming this WikiProject from Cocktails to Mixed Drinks place your vote underneath in this format: "* '''OPPOSE''' - Your reasons. --~~~~". Adding your reasons for opposition is as important as the vote itself.

[edit] Comments & Questions

Please place comments underneath in one of the following formats: "* '''COMMENT''' - Your comments. --~~~~" or "* '''QUESTION''' - Your question. --~~~~".

COMMENT - The original suggestion to rename this group was posted to my talk page: "If Wikiproject cocktails also covers other alcoholic drinks, why not just rename the project and officially broaden its scope? Stevage 04:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)" This echoed my personal feelings, but I wasn't ready to suggest such a bold move at that time. --Willscrlt 09:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
COMMENT - As a result of the SfD, CfD, and MfD actions on the {{cocktail-stub}} (and related templates) and Cat:Cocktail stubs (and related categories), I mentioned the proposed name change, and requested that the stub and related category names should be updated to match. That all happened a little faster than expected, so they have been changed to {{mixed-drink-stub}} and Cat:Mixed drink stubs. The person who made the changes wasn't aware that the proposed name change was still under discussion. I just wanted you to know that I wasn't trying to jump the gun or anything. --Willscrlt (Talk|Cntrb) 12:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
COMMENT - On a related note, I have already setup redirects of WP:MIX (WikiProject home), WP:MIXA (Assessment Dept.), WP:MIXT (To-Do list), WP:MIXStyleGuide (Style Guide), and one other I forgot at the moment. This might be seen as jumping the gun (probably it was), but I needed the shortcuts for links within the new assessment template, and I didn't want to setup WP:COCK, WP:TAILS, or the longer WP:COCKTAILS when there is as much support for the rename as there seems to be. I also created the various Userboxes using the new name rather than the old one because it seemed kind of silly to make ones with the old names at this point. So, if for any reason the name change does not go through, I will cheerfully rename and relink everything that needs to say cocktails again. --Willscrlt (Talk|Cntrb) 12:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Measurement format

There is an ongoing consensus proposal to standardise the format of measurements across Wikiproject Cocktails. In essence, the discussion is between the use of absolute units (such as fluid ounces, centilitres etc) verses relative units ("parts", percentages etc). the brackets link to examples which are merely for clarification as to what "relative" and "absolute" mean. Comments and votes are encouraged in the discussion, which can be found here. Happy-melon 21:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mixed drinks and related drinkware?

Where did this name come from? Sounds like something only a committee would dream up :) What is "related drinkware"? Stevage 02:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I confess! I made it up, not a committee. Maybe I just have multiple personalities? :-) Seriously, though, it is because there are a lot of drinkware (a term I did not make up) that owes its existence to various cocktails (the cocktail glass is probably the most notable and directly related of the bunch). On the other hand, I didn't want to get carried away and pick up every stray piece of drinkware out there (do we really want to be responsible for drinking horns and several varieties of beer steins?). The wording might have been better -- but I couldn't think of anything else. And nobody offered any other suggestions (or complaints) during the voting, so I guess it wasn't too offensive. :-) I am creating a related WikiProject over at WikiBooks, and it is the Bartending WikiProject. The main reason for that name is that the related section there is called the Wikibooks Bartending Guide, so it seemed to work. It's at least a lot shorter. --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 15:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Your goal is admirable :) Could I suggest you just make the title "WikiProject Mixed Drinks" (which it seems to be in many places?) then just clarify in its description that you cover "related drinkware". With every WP you have to draw a line somewhere about what's in and what's out - it's perfectly reasonable to say that martini glasses are *in* but beer glasses are *out*. 202.10.88.139 00:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I have created a new task force (subdivision/department/whatever) called the Bartending task force. It actually ties in very nicely with the WikiBooks Bartending WikiProject that I just created over there. My idea with the task force is to move the drinkware into that task force, as well as bartending tools and bartender biographies. Then the Mixed Drinks WikiProject can remain dedicated to the drinks themselves, and leave the tools of the trade, the trade itself, and the practitioners of the trade to the smaller group interested in those topics. For those interested, I have created the following userboxes:

This user is a Bartending Task Force Participant

This user is a WikiBooks participant in The Bartending WikiProject.

If you are interested in joining the task force, it's as simple as adding your name to the Participants List and indicating that you are interested in the Bartending task force. For the WikiProject over at WikiBooks, use the separate Participants List there.

For those not familiar with WikiBooks, they have created a very useful Bartending Guide. If it looks a little chaotic and like there is a lot of clutter in it, don't blame the Wikibookians. Most of the cruft there came from Wikipedians, who sometimes view WikiBooks as their personal Wikipedia dumping ground for substandard article content. One of my main goals for the collaboration between the projects is to avoid that kind of thinking and work together to improve the encyclopedia of drinks here and the bartending guide there at the same time.

The Bartending task force would, in addition to focusing on bartending articles here, work on the trans-wiki collaboration between both projects.

And, since drinkware would be covered by the task force, I see no problem dropping it out of the formal name of the main WikiProject. :-) Thoughts? --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 05:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acceptable source websites & notability criteria

Background: Over at Guinness there have been a lot of additions of mixed drinks with Guinness and I've been removing or asking for citations for all but the "most notable" (i.e., ones I've heard of -- black & tan, Irish car bomb, Black Velvet).

How do I go about determining whether a particular mixed drink with Guinness is notable? Is Webtender a reliable source? It strikes me as impractical and unencyclopedic to have every name for a particular drink (maybe transwiki to Wikibooks Cookbook?) and I'm not a mixed-drink bartender -- all my experience is with beer-only bars -- so I don't necessarily know all the standard recipes. --Stlemur 14:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../w/i/k/Wikipedia_talk%7EWikiProject_Mixed_Drinks_de0c.html"

Categories: WikiProject Mixed Drinks articles | WikiProject Mixed Drinks pages