Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Perth

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Archives March 2005 - September 2006

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Contents 1 Perth Streets - an opinion 2 use of clarifier (xxx ,Western Australia) 3 "Buy WA First" 4 Native title 5 Kings Park, Western Australia - help please 6 Project directory 7 "Western Australia's 100 most influential people" 8 Events that should be included 9 WikiProject Western Australia 10 Perth Street Article Titles 11 Shopping Centres 12 Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia 13 Anyone who wants to make it a better article.. 14 Wikipedia Day Awards 15 Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 3#Perth 16 Category:Local Government Areas of Perth 17 SFD notification 18 House values 19 Similar WikiProjects

[edit] Perth Streets - an opinion

I recently received this message on my talk page after asking SatuSuro if he could provide a reference for the information he added to Forrest Place. Some interesting ideas are brought up, and I thought you guys might want to comment. Thanks, --Ali K 14:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

"Hi Ali, thanks for the message. I was accidentally cruising the Perth Street entries on Perth Stubs. I will refrain what I think of most of the entries. Someone needs to set a much higher standard - if not a template example- just compare St Geos Tce with Murray St and Forrest Place - As for the Forrest Place entry, refs are the last thing I am thinking of when I check the other streets, the inconsistency and mess is more important to cleanup at this stage, it's as though they are not in the same city. One: someone needs to do a template map of the cbd. Two: someone needs to check books rather than links to web pages with almost irrelevent info. There is a very strong need for a very strong editorial broom through the weird and wonderful collection of Perth Stubs. Unfortunately I have neither the time at the moment, or the sufficient sense of humour to cope with issues that will no doubt arise. Maybe someone else will take up the call. Refs later, consistency and thinks to tie it all together like a map or box for each entry.SatuSuro 13:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)"

I personally don't think we need to get too anal about articles about streets. Two to four paragraphs should suffice in most cases. I do feel strongly however that we don't include meaningless lists of "attractions" and every building and church that's situated on them. Perhaps a good place to start is some good existing articles which we can use as references. A few I like are Queen Street, Melbourne, Elizabeth Street, Sydney and best of all Rundle Street, Adelaide. These are about the size and scope I feel comfortable with. George Street, Sydney is too big - I'd drop the attractions section. -- I@n ≡ talk 15:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

If we need a sort of sharing of opinions, the quotes from above - queen Street and elizabeth street are too skeletal to serve purpose, I agree with Rundle, but I think there is a place for a shorter attractions on George Street - having walked it many times, and understanding its context historically I would vigorously defend the attractions section. SatuSuro 15:22, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] use of clarifier (xxx ,Western Australia)

I came across this article Perth Airport, its on a redirect from Perth Airport, Western Australia. Places using "Perth" like this should have the clarifier(DAB) added in every case, with redirects coming from the general title. When other Perths add articles the rediect page can become a DAB page. Gnangarra 16:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Why? Unless it is a seperate suburb as well as an airport, there's really no need. Rebecca 03:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

There a wider discussion about standardising naming conventions to Australian article taking place at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Australian_places#Lakes.2C_rivers_and_mountains.. please participate there. The concensus reached there will set the requirements for this article anyway. Gnangarra

FYI, Perth Airport is a landmark and Perth Airport, Western Australia is a suburb, and M Johnson made a redirect to the Perth Airport landmark article. However, I think it is necessary to make a seperate article for the Perth Airport, Western Australia, please see also the Newburn, Western Australia article.--Shinjiman ⇔ ♨ 05:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Buy WA First"

I have seen several supermarkets have a "Buy WA First" label for some products, and anyone knows how this was introduced? thanks and regards. --Shinjiman ⇔ ♨ 09:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Been around for a while - worth going to the WA Government page and trying search in there, probably a department of development or primary industry campaign - I think it has gone in varous forms for decades.SatuSuro 09:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I remember TV ads for it in the 1980s, especially around the time of the America's Cup, complete with the little "birthmark" symbol. Orderinchaos78 01:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Native title

The Noongar federal court ruling should get a mention somewhere, Perth people are probably in the best position to decide where to put it. Thanks. --Peta 23:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

At the moment its more a news item, there is most likely going to be further court actions and legislative changes. if anything it warrants its own article. At the moment most of the available information is polarised scary mongering most notably from the real estate industry saying its going to prevent new housing developments and push land values up 20-30%pa until its resolved. Other stories are of access to beaches and rivers being block or restricted to non Noongar people. Besides the decision, mentions of probable appeals and the scary mongers/hysteria theres not enough good information available. Gnangarra 00:57, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

thinking aloud the wikiproject Australian law would be a better group to build this article as its more a court event. Gnangarra 01:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally any beach or park covered by a Town Planning Scheme is not vacant crown land. Therefore the beach at Scarborough and Trigg and a heap of other places would not be open to claim by native title. I think the change that will ultimately arise is that each individual group will have to claim each individual parcel of land within the scheme, and of course that only relates to native title (i.e. traditional usage) rights, it does not confer ownership. Just an opinion from a non-lawyer who has read Mabo and Wik and the native title act when studying about 10 years ago :) Orderinchaos78 10:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

At the time of my reply that was a comment on the information generally available and that with such information being the mainstay of the details provided an article would develope into farce of misinformed information, that once correct infomation became available edit wars over such details could evlove. Its now subject to an apeal reason being in that the decision is different from those mentioned decisions as it conveys rights over resources, and the ability to restrict useage with requirements for portions to be reserved. Gnangarra 11:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kings Park, Western Australia - help please

I've been cleaning this article up, I would appreciate some feed back and suggestion for further developement of the article. Thanks Gnangarra 08:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 16:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Western Australia's 100 most influential people"

(cross-posted at talk:History of Western Australia) The insert in todays West is good reading if you're interested. Wikipedia is quoted as one the references. — Moondyne 05:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Events that should be included

Red Bull Air Race Rally Australia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Smbarnzy (talk • contribs) .

I struck out Rally Aust as there already an article Gnangarra 10:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a Perth section at Red Bull Air Race World Series. Nachoman-au 11:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Red Bull Air Race has existed as a redirect to the above since 29 July 2006. Btw welcome Smbarnzy! Great to have more people on board here. Orderinchaos78 01:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If you are interested in the Red Bull Air Race, please join Wikipedia:WikiProject Red Bull Air Race World Series. Thanks--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 08:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Swan Valley and the Caversham wine festivals? Music festivals are no doubt being added to the Perth Music article. Hopman Cup? where do we stop petedavo 11:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Western Australia

Am I the first to suggest that this project become for the whole state. Australia project is too focused on Eastern states and this one gets too detailed. It would also help in reaching consensus on a 'national gauge' re. general australian articles with t'othersiders. Fred.e 20:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I think there's a good call to start a new one, rather than use this one. This one is and should be focused on the city and urban area of Perth. Not sure how to gauge support for such a move though? We have plenty of active WA Wikipedians including some admins and a lot has been moving in the last 2-3 months (I've been working on the Harvey-Waroona and Wheatbelt regions as well as Perth suburbs and some fringe Victorian areas that the Melbourne project have hung up to dry) Orderinchaos78 23:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I would definately support WikiProject Western Australia! that is a great idea. I don't know how you would get the 'right' to do it though. But your idea is great in theory, and if you need support from me, you have it. Smbarnzy 01:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for comments. We can have both projects, silly of me to say change. As well! I'm sure if editors don't have 'right' we can ask an admin. If there is more support I'll lobby the ones I have found so far. There is a lot of WA pages that can be neatly linked together but I don't want to do to much without consensus. Templates coud improve lots areas, for instance, as they have already on this project. Fred.e 17:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

You have the right; you don't have to ask anyone's permission. And I have no doubt the project will be well supported. It's just a matter of someone having the gumption to actually make it happen. Hesperian 22:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

From one who has suggested more projects than he could handle, its all a matter of focus, time, energy and commitment - just look at the australian history guy - clearly one obsessed - one way to go! SatuSuro 23:00, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Street Article Titles

Following a recent change - it is obvious a consensus is needed ( possibly with explanation of background - to refer to editors who might not have been part of the extensive issues in the formatting of names of places and things in australia in general) and a policy needs to be made about how Perth streets and article titles fit into the greater scheme of things before we have divergent title usage. SatuSuro 06:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Basically this is asking for a consensus for the restoration or addition to all Perth Street names in the CBD to be restored to xxxx, Perth - on the basis that all other capital cities in Australia use this convention, and the potential for confusion is not wanted.

• Support and propose the qualifier 'Perth' to all CBD street names to avoid dab issues and establish a consistent usage.SatuSuro 07:50, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I kinda agree though it should be applied to all metro area streets, including borderline cases like Thomas Road. Wellington and Hay street already need the qualifer anyway. Gnangarra 09:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support for Perth streets. I'm unsure if its documented, but there does seem to a convention which we should follow. See Category:Streets in Sydney, Category:Streets in Melbourne, Category:Streets in Adelaide, Category:Streets in Brisbane. — Moondyne 10:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support for streets as per Moondyne, and roads as per others above. I'm wondering what an Englishman or Canadian would think keying in "Thomas Street" or "Hay Street" and getting something at the other side of the world. I'm less decided on very major roads - eg Mitchell Freeway, Roe Highway - but given that WP:Australian Places adopted the full name convention for all placenames irrespective of disambig issues, I don't see why roads would be any different. Orderinchaos78 10:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. What will you do if someone writes an article on a street in Perth, Scotland, or Perth, Tasmania? Hesperian 10:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
  • We could disambibuate then, as Hay Street, Perth, Western Australia. Lets not worry about it until it happens. — Moondyne 10:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. I've decided I oppose this proposal, although it does appear I'm horribly outnumbered. I don't think the comma convention works well for streets. I'd prefer to see Thomas Street, disambiguated only if necessary to Thomas Street (Western Australia), disambiguated only if necessary to Thomas Street (Perth, Western Australia). Hesperian 11:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
      • But there does seem to be a convention in other AU cities, no? — Moondyne 11:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Point taken. And also, I think, some evidence that the convention doesn't work. Hesperian 11:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

<-- (edit conflict)*Olive branch I think the bracket street (perth, western australia) convention is a lot cleaner. That also the reasoning for use at WP:Australian places. We also need to consider names like Queen st, Aberdeen st as I think it would be likely that our friends in Scotland will probably have those names. Gnangarra 11:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment I'm glad to see there's a good discussion going on this - what we all want is the best final result for WikiProject Perth, and there needs to be a balance between names which unnecessarily cause confusion in a worldwide encyclopaedia versus overly unwieldy names that start reading like a postal address. I don't necessarily think ", city name" is the most efficient, but state alone doesn't work if I ever get around to the Streets of Bunbury one (there's about five notables, including Stirling and Wittenoom Streets), while one of Kalgoorlie's most (in)famous is Hay Street. Curiously, the other Perth has a High Street something like our Hay Street Mall, while its other main CBD streets include South Street, King Street and Mill Street. The Tasmanian Perth is too small to have streets that need to be considered in this context, unless someone ever does an article on our now abolished Drummond Street (Leederville Parade). Melbourne, Launceston and Sydney (George Street no less)

So from all of this, what is to be done? I think the fact the other AU cities have reached a consensus should be considered but that we should be flexible enough to be able to cope with any oddities that may arise. i.e. more of a principle than a hard and fast rule. Orderinchaos78 13:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

So what do people think should be the way we move forward on Perth street/road articles? Orderinchaos78 00:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shopping Centres

I've just this morning located all the articles I could find on shopping centres in Perth and grouped them all into a master category. This has also been added as a sub-section to the main project page under Places. thewinchester 03:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I've also created a baseline template for articles in this segment that can be found at User:Thewinchester/Shopping_centre_base. thewinchester 09:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia

User:Fred.e has just created Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia. This will of course be aimed at coordinating and improving articles related to Western Australia, and fostering collaboration between Category:Wikipedians in Western Australia. The project is so brand spanking new that we haven't yet defined our goals or scope, let alone how we're going to achieve them. So this is your chance to be involved right from the start. Hesperian 10:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone who wants to make it a better article..

I created the well needed article Fremantle Town Hall. If anyone has information they can add, it would be of great use! Thanks, --Ali K 07:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 3#Perth

FYI: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 3#Perth. Hesperian 23:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

This change, proposed by a user for whom this is their only edit of any kind, proposes that every category with the word "Perth" in the title be disambiguated, when in many cases the categories will never exist for any other Perth and there's little to no risk of confusion. I am inclined to oppose in the strongest terms. (No point in replying to this message, reply to the Cfd as above.) Orderinchaos78 01:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

To provide some balance to this discussion, I have supported the proposal. I consider the Scottish category Category:Natives of Perth to be absolutely unacceptable, so I can't expect my Scottish friends to be much in favour of the Western Australian Category:History of Perth. Hesperian 01:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If the two Perths cannot separate themselves honorably there will be problems - I suggest the Perth in scotland and perth in wa to have qualifiers in the category titles rather than disambigs -sooner than later - notability issues are rubbish - we're on diff sides of this much abused planet... SatuSuro 02:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Local Government Areas of Perth

And while we're on the subject, I would very much like to see this category obliterated. There are no local government areas of Perth; there are only local government areas of Western Australia that just happen to be in the Perth metropolitan area. How do people feel about me depopulating this into Category:Local Government Areas of Western Australia and deleting it? Hesperian 23:12, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The distinction is useful (and should be maintained) but I agree the above category name is not the way to achieve this. Perth metropolitan area is not a level of government and as such, government units cannot pertain to it. Orderinchaos78 01:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Any ideas for an alternative?

Category:Local Government Areas of Western Australia in Perth?

Category:Local Government Areas in Perth, Western Australia?

Hesperian 01:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the above two - Local government areas are throughout the state - the Metro area (including Perth ) is as you say not really a level of government. Looking through the WALGA website - the more important term is metropolitan. I think this stuff is trying to reinvent the wheel when there is all this stuff outside wikipedia that points to this term rather than what we are talking about SatuSuro 02:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

To update this - we came to an agreement to extinguish the category and upmerge a few days ago, as a template and list already provide the distinction I was seeking in my above comments. Orderinchaos78 00:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SFD notification

This message is to notify you that a stub template and category that is associated with this WikiProject ({{Perth-road-stub}} and Cat:Perth, Western Australia road stubs) is up for deletion at WP:SFD. Please join the discussion. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 15:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] House values

The conversation has taken place in other forums as well, but I'm raising this specifically with regard to Perth. Is there a need for the housing value to be in each of the suburb articles? Reason I ask is that it has to be updated every 3 months, but updating 338 articles is actually quite a challenge, especially if the formatting on each article is not the same. I updated any marked (Q2 2006) to (Q3 2006) today. Orderinchaos78 03:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd rather see an external link to someone else who can provide upto date current economic data, such as the WA Dept of Treasury and Finance http://www.dtf.wa.gov.au petedavo 11:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Similar WikiProjects

If you want to include a list of similar city WikiProjects, you can transclude the following page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/List of city WikiProjects. ^BlankVerse 13:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)