Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Archive 3

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

WikipediaWikiProject Scouting/Archive 3 is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

This page is not an article and does not require a rating on the quality scale.

Archives
1. 21 Jan 2006 – 03 Jul 2006 2. 6 July 2006 - November 2006 3. December 2006 - ...

Inviting Participation

I am aware that there are people on Wikipedia who are likely to be/have been Guides, based on their posts. I was wondering about inviting them to join the Scouting Wikiproject, as they may not know we cover Guiding too. Does anyone have any advice on how to do this successfully? Kingbird 17:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

We are listed here, and I listed Guiding specifically: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory/History_and_society#Social_organizations. I'll look for other ways to advertise. The portal also lists that we cover Guiding, etc. Rlevse 18:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I've now put a goals and scope section at the top of our project page. Rlevse 22:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

KINGBIRD-I'd be honored for you to write an article about us for: Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/About. Rlevse 22:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for inviting me to write about the project in this way. At this time, I'm afraid I must decline due to lack of time. I have recently committed to doing work on Girlguiding UK matters, both programme details and regional information, plus I was already researching information for a few new articles when I made those commitments. I want to keep on enjoying being part of the Scouting Wikiproject, not feeling hassled by being over-committed.

No problem, it would be a good way to advertise the project, so I'll do it sometime this weekend.Rlevse 15:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Added a blue Guiding link on the project talk page template. Rlevse 11:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

130th Glasgow Company, The Boys' Brigade

If we are interested in the Boys' Brigade, this article is up for deletion. It is not straight forword as it does seen fairly notable and old. --Bduke 21:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't find anything that notable about it - apart from the names of the various leaders involved, that could be a fairly generic article on other BB companies. Horus Kol 08:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Caio Vianna Martins

I just started a stub article on Brazilian Scout and national hero Caio Vianna Martins, if anyone has anything to contribute to it. -- Writtenonsand 05:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Page redesign

I've been working ideas for improving our project page layout for some time--I for one am tired of all that scrolling! I started working on Scouting WikiProject Navigation box a few days ago. Over the next several days, I'll be working this and at various points playing with the page layout. None of it is chiseled in stone, so if you have ideas, please leave talk here on this talk page. Rlevse 23:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Could I mention the instructions for placing the Scouting Portal tag? The How you can help section and the Templates section indicate different places to put it. I haven't liked to change either section as I haven't been around here too long. Also, if using the WorldScouting Infobox, should we omit the Scouting Portal tag, as for the BSA box, or not? I don't mind the what the answer is, I'd just be happier knowing the standard. Many thanks, Kingbird 16:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Fixed the portal discrepancy, it should go in See also, BUT if you use the info box, since it has a portal link builtin, you'd don't need to use the standalone portal tag. Rlevse 16:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've just dropped in the first version of the navigation pane. Constructive feedback and ideas for improvement are welcome.Rlevse 18:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting colour scheme... it was a little too bright for viewing before my first cuppa of the morning... Horus Kol 10:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I went with green, gold, and ivory....ivory to offset a tad from the white background of main space, green and gold as they are good Scout colors. I'll check for a tad darker green, but before when I used one particular darker green, it was too dark. Rlevse 10:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)....try the one I just changed too. Rlevse 11:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Its a bit easier on the eyes now... good work with the reorganisation. Horus Kol 08:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm now putting this on all project pages. Rlevse 03:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Is this original research?

I just came upon History of the Scout movement in Poland and don't know what to to with this article in need. It names only one unpublished source for the whole text - to me this is quite near to original research. Waht should we do with it? --jergen 09:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, quite interesting, but it says it's based on a memoir, which we can't verify as it's not a web reference. I'd say it's not original research, but more likely a copy vio, but we can't verify that. I'd hate to lose this interesting info on the other hand. Rlevse 11:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks like most of this was added by User:Andrzej anonimus. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Explorer Scouts

I've been following the recommendations of the peer review I had made, and I think I've taken it as far as I can... could anyone else do a copyedit and see if there are any more links we can get in there? Horus Kol 10:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Boy Scout Vespers

Hello, I have added a comment at Talk:Boy Scout Vespers. Carolynparrishfan 23:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

UK Scout County Style

I'd like to come up with a standard style for the UK Scout County articles - I've been developing one with Scouting in Royal Berkshire (trying to get the relevant information in the article for anyone interested in the County)... firstly, I'd like any suggestions about it... and then how do I let people know about it? Cheers, Horus Kol 15:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Images of World Scout Bureau document

I have some images of a certicate and a letter from World Scout Bureau for accepting a new member. Could I upload to commons or here? If yes, What kinds of license could be written down in their comments? — HenryLi (Talk) 22:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

wikisource is probably a better place. I think GFDL is automatice for wikisource and wikicommons.Sumoeagle179 02:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

It's an image, not text. As the copies of document are written by World Scout Bureau, I'm worry about copyright. Is it in fair use or public? — HenryLi (Talk) 13:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, try User:Wimvandorst, I'm not sure.Sumoeagle179 12:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. — HenryLi (Talk) 00:53, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Return to wiki

Many thanks to all who supported me during my MUCH NEEDED WikiBreak. Now I FULLY understand why they are needed. What an intense year! Man, did I need that break. Many thanks to you all for supporting the project. You are all fine Scouters and editors. Let’s keep improving our articles. Scouting is still a FAC (not sure if it’ll make it or not on this round) and the Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting Task Force was recently started—please support the GG/GS Task Force if you can. We really want to beef up our articles in that area. I myself ordered a book on Our Chalet and have started an article on that. Yours in Scouting, Rlevse 21:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:56, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Lead coordinator

I am sure that all participants in the Project are delighted that Rlevse has returned to WP and the Project. When he left he resigned as lead coordinator. He has asked me, as coordinator for Project mediation to seek consensus whether the Project wants to hold an election, where I understand Rlevse would stand, or just to ask him back as coordinator. I therefore ask you to give your views below. Please vote for Hold an election or Ask him back, although of course other opinions, comments etc are welcome. I will start the process. --Bduke 23:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I should have added that I will close this discussion in a week or sooner if an overwhelming consensus develops. --Bduke 00:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Ask him back. I sense that the Project is more than delighted with the leadership that Rlevse has given over the last year and simply wants him to continue with the minimum of fuss. --Bduke 23:20, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Return to duty --JohnDBuell 23:32, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Welcome back, your seat's still warm Chris 02:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Ask him back I feel he performed very well and would continue to do so.Sumoeagle179 02:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Ask him back he's done well in the past, and I know he will continue to do well in the future. Darth griz⁹⁸ 02:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Ask him back, but it is his choice, not his duty.--Egel _Reaction? 15:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Ask him back; he needed a break and I don't want to do it :-) --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
He wasn't gone: going on a wikibreak, even if you make a little bit more fuss about it, doesn't change any informal status the lead coordinator functionary has. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 15:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

This seems a pretty solid consensus with all comments agreeing and no new contributions for over a day. I am therefore closing this discussion. Rlevse, put your coodinator's hat back on and get to work! Actually you seem to have been working very hard on the Project since your return. Well done, we look forward to more excellent leadership for a long time to come.

Having said that, I suggest we do discuss whether there should be a term for the appointment of the coordinator, say one year, or whether we just leave it informal. I think I am an appropriate person to raise this question, since, for reasons I will not discuss here, I have absolutely no intention of ever being coordinator of this project. Let us discuss this broadly below, and see whether a consensus develops. --Bduke 22:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The advantage of a term with, say, a call for interest early in December and then a debate or vote, might allow a smooth transition with one coordinator mentoring the next for a short time. The alternative might be the total departure of one coordinator in a stressed out condition. I therefore support a year's term. --Bduke 22:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for everyone's support. I support a one year term with no limit on being reelected. Let's do it every Dec and close in early Jan, like we just did. Bduke is in charge of overseeing it. This will give folks a chance to openly voice concerns, if any exist. MILHIST does it this way and has had the same lead coord for some years but they still hold the election.Rlevse 22:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I am taking it that people agree with Rlevse, so let us do it as he suggests. --Bduke 23:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Hey, all, the very best wishes for 2007!!! Wim van Dorst (Talk) 15:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

You too, brother, and to all sisters and brothers in Scouting! Chris 07:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

al-Mahdi Scouts

Fox News on January 1, 2007 had a report on the al-Mahdi Scouts, a youth wing of the Hezbollah in southern Lebanon. The really interesting thing is, outwardly, they look very much like traditional Scouts, with the normal uniforms (light and medium blue, white, yellow and purple for different groups) and badges and all. The flags being flown from cars and along the roadside showed the emblem, again a traditional fleur-de-lis, whose petals are left-to-right green/white/red, and in the top center of which is a hand with an out-turned palm, possibly the Hand of Fatima, and supported on left and right by single scimitars. Can anyone support/document this? In itself it would be a most interesting article. Chris 07:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

It's clear that this organization exists but it's status in Scouting is unknow: There are no reliable sources on the members of the Fédération du Scoutisme Libanais - according to some sources this militant anti-zionist organization is a member of the federation and of WOSM. We had hot discussions on this topic in some German Scouting boards resulting in questioning WOSM about this organization. This was in last August, but there is no final answer yet. Quote: We well received your message and we forwarded it to the Lebanese federation through Georges Ghorayeb, also member of the World Scout Committee (Cc to this message). Please understand that our brother scouts are currently busy with relief work. I hope we will be able to give you the accurate information very soon.

Some links:

The official homepage at http://www.almahdiscouts.org is not available.
Press:
- Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Center for Special Studies, Israel - main source for all reports and blogs
- Time magazin: Photo Essay: Inside Hizballah
Board Discussions:
- DPSG Bundesforum: Al Mahdi Pfadfinder
- The far longer and deeper discussion on http://www.pfadfindertreffpunkt.de was removed because of to many personal attacs

Hope this helps. --jergen 09:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Jergen! I am pretty sure, based on the news report, that this is more a political organization which has taken on the names/symbols... of Scouting, but in truth is probably more of a Political or military youth organisation. I'll get to work on it as I get time. Chris 10:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

If someone knows Libanees: al-Mahdi Scouts in the Internet Archive --Egel _Reaction? 10:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sites of Jamborees

Is it appropriate to put articles on sites of Jamborees, such as Arrowe Park, in the Project with the big template on the talk page, when the Scouting content is one sentence in quite a large article. Several have just been added. I doubt it is appropriate. If it is, Sutton Park should be so tagged. --Bduke 22:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, Arrowe Park is listed as Low Importance, as it is indeed merely touching on the subject of Scouting. And I don't think that is it so very wrong. The Arrowe Park is just a stub anyhow: perhaps when it is enlarge to FA quality, the Scouting part will be more? No big deal, I'd say, with appropriate importance (Low). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
- I almost took the tags off, but went with leaving them, but Low imp. I agree with Wim. Let's make this a defacto rule, or an official one if you guys want.Rlevse 22:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
  - It already is a rule: (from the Importance Assessment table): Subject is not particularly notable or significant even within the field of Scouting, and may have been included primarily to achieve comprehensive coverage of another topic (such as a subcamp of a Scout reservation). Just to avoid extra rules and regulation (read: work for our well-rest (albeit already again nearly overworked ;-) lead coord. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

That does cover it in my opinion, it just doesn't explicitly say "cities where jambos were held"-;) Rlevse 03:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It did last time I looked :-]. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

That's because you looked right after you edited it-;) Rlevse 01:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Image:AlbaniaScouts.jpg

The image deletionists are at it again, will someone please help me save this graphic? Chris 02:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Listed this on the "delete" section of the project page. Rlevse 03:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Chris, but this is really a copyright infringement, as well as a privacy violation. But easily solved, I guess: just ask the Spanish the webmaster of the site where you grabbed it from whether he would can give it into the public domain. The 'Contact Us' is on the home page of their website. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 10:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC).
- Yep ... the new(er) interpretation of the policy is that if the person is living or the building is standing, it's replaceable. I really wish that old photos had been grandfathered in (kinda like was done with images missing rationales or uploaded under a non-commercial license) so that they could be replaced gradually ... but that didn't happen. I don't think the discussion on the talk page is really going to matter - when an admin reviews it in a week, it's gone. Please see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for instructions on seeking permission. Specifically, if they are willing to release the image under the GFDL or into the public domain, that permission needs to be emailed to "permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org". --BigDT 10:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand the privacy bit, but I have written to the site master, turns out I know three of the five contacts listed. Thanks for the heads-up. Chris 10:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

That policy makes no sense at all. If there's only one known copy of a person/building, then it is not replaceable. What are people supposed to do, like in this case is to fly to Albania to get their own. This is expecting too much of people and another case of extremists getting control of wiki.Rlevse 13:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It may not be easily replaceable. But it is potentially replaceable. I wouldn't be overly inclined to fly to Albania ... but there is an Albanian Wikipedia where someone who speaks the language could make the request. [1]. Category:Wikipedians in Albania gives five en Wikipedians who self-identify as being from Albania. One of them - User:ProgressiveΛeternus is active here and on the Albanian Wikipedia. If contacting the owner of this image falls through, I would suggest contacting User:ProgressiveΛeternus to ask for help. --BigDT 15:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, 5 isn't much to work with, especially for an area like Scouting, but maybe one will come through.Rlevse 15:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

See also Category:User sq - that gives 41 users who speak Albanian and Category:User sq-N gives 24 who speak it as a native language. That may give a few more to work with. --BigDT 16:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons

Hey everyone - Randy asked me to mention Wikimedia Commons here. Commons is another Wikimedia project whose mission is to store free (no fair use) images that may be used on any project. Only images that are unquestionably free can be uploaded there. Any image on Commons "automagically" comes through to Wikipedia. For example, if you take a look at Image:Virginia Tech War Memorial Chapel sunset.jpg, both the image and talk pages are redlinked. But anywhere that the image is used, it shows up and pulls the image from Commons.

There is a built-in security feature such that once an image is uploaded to Commons, you are prevented from uploading an image here with the same name. That means that once the project logo is deleted locally, nobody can vandalize every single Scouting page by uploading an unScoutlike picture.

Commons has articles like Commons:Virginia Tech or Commons:glasses that are essentially galleries of images that can be used for articles on a given topic. There is already a Commons:Scouting article. If you contribute an image to Commons, you can add it to that article and then it can be used by anyone on any WikiMedia project.

Many projects consider it a goal to enhance Commons coverage of images dealing with their topic. I think that would be a good Scouting goal as well. We could create articles for camping, or other Scouting topics.

Please keep in mind, as a general warning, that they are, out of necessity, more restrictive than enWiki. For example, even things that nobody on en Wiki would really mind - like a photo that prominently displays a copyrighted logo - should not be uploaded there to be on the safe side. (See Commons:Commons:derivative works for more than you ever wanted to know about this.) --BigDT 20:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest we use WikiCommons as much as possible. Whether you agree or not, Wiki is increasingly moving towards free images. This option will give us an easy place to find free images (PD, CC, and GFDL) that can be used without question and on any wikipedia. BigDT is a Scouter and image tag expert, so I suggest we follow this suggestion here. His knowledge of Scouting and image tagging will help us navigate the often mystical world of image tags. He is listed as our image coordinator on this article's page and is ready to help us all. Many thanks to BigDT here! Rlevse 22:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

If anyone is interested in moving an image from here to Commons, please see Wikipedia:Moving images to the Commons. There is a great tool that you can use - http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/commonshelper.php - that does 99.999% of the work for you. You just point it to the image that you want to move and it adds the text for the Commons description page. You need to create a Commons account first. Then open this tool, enter the name of the image that you want to move and then when it asks you to, save the Wikipedia version of the image to your hard drive. It will take you to the Commons upload page and it will already be fully decked out. Then, you come back to Wikipedia and tag the image with {{subst:ncd}} so that the Wikipedia copy of the image can be deleted (the Commons page will "show through"). If you have an image that is potentially useful, but isn't being used in an article right now, moving it to Commons is a great way of making sure that it doesn't get deleted as an orphaned image. Wikipedia isn't free webhosting and if an image is orphaned and we can't figure out at WP:IFD what it's supposed to be used for, it will be deleted. But if it is put on Commons (and preferably add it to an appropriate gallery or category), it's safe. --BigDT 22:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Then don't you have to add it to the Scouting article/gallery to get it to show there?Rlevse 23:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

If you upload an image to Commons, it will automatically be available for anyone on any Wikipedia to use ... if they know the filename or can find it when searching. But it makes it a lot easier to find if it's categorized or on an article. If you look at the very bottom right hand corner of en Wikipedia's Scouting article, there is a link to the Commons Scouting article. So anyone working on another language's Wikipedia can put a similar template on their Scouting article and everything is instantly readilly accessible to them. --BigDT 23:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

You missed my point, I meant don't you have to manually add the image to the Scouting gallery on Commons? Commons won't automatically know it's a Scouting image. Rlevse 23:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok ... yes ... the Commons:Scouting article is an article just like one on Wikipedia ... any image that you want there, you have to add to it. --BigDT 01:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, dumb question-do Scouting logos count? We have over 300 (see Gallery of Scout and Guide national emblems) that would be nice to share between wikis. Chris 23:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No ... only free images can be uploaded to Commons. Anything that is fair use can only be here. --BigDT 00:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Please note that commons has other restrictions as well. For instance, they frown upon candid photos of people becuase in some European jurisdictions it can be legall construed as an invasion of the person's privacy to post such a photo (this depends on a complicated set of circumstances). Furthermore, commons is very strict about copyrighted images as well as images that show copyrighted images. A close-up photo of a merit badge or merit badge book is not OK. A poised photo of a scount wearing a merit badge sash is OK. A candid shot of a scout is probably OK.

One more point, it is true that you have to manually add the image to the Scouting gallery, but there is also a Scouting category that works just like the categories here - just add the right text to the photo description when you upload it (or anytime after-wards).

All that being said, I totally agree and support putting pictures on commons. I put all my photos there if they fit the criteria. I also sometimes go looking for suitable photos on the web. Essentially all photos taken by the US govt are public domain, so they qualify. Some people on Flikr release their photos appropriately as well. If you need a photo for an article, searching flikr is a good step to take. Johntex\^talk 04:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Scout image naming

Okay, this may be a horribly bad idea, and unworkable, but I will throw it out to see what you think. Since we do have so many Scout images with so many names, which do not match each other, perhaps we should resave them under new names which specifically state what they are and where they're from? My idea is that they should use the Country code top-level domains, like is done at Flags of the World, like so:

A badge from the German Saint George association would be labeled like

Image:de.wosm.dpsg.1986 Image: de. (for Germany) wosm. (for supranational affiliation) dpsg. (acronym of organization) 1986 (something to describe it in the event there are several images for one organization)

while a badge from Japan may be labeled

Image:jp.wosm.saj.Scouts at camp and so on. Please no flames, just an idea. Chris 01:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

As a software engineer, I love that idea. Keep in mind, though, that there is no way to rename an image - they would have to be downloaded and re-uploaded. For the "free" images, this could be done as a part of migrating images to commons - move it to commons under the new name ... then delete the old image here. For the non-free ones ... I don't know ... flip a coin there. It's an interesting idea. Going forward, though, having a naming convention wouldn't be a horrible idea. --BigDT 02:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Nice, but it'd confuse the non-computer geeks.Rlevse 03:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I did say, "as a software engineer". Of course, I think things like grep are straight forward, so it may be a good idea to ignore me. ;) --BigDT 01:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Chris, always good to provide fresh ideas, and for this one, I think you correctly estimated the horribleness and unworkability. ;-). Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

article rename proposal

I propose that Scouting in breakaway and non-aligned organisations be renamed and moved to Breakaway and non-aligned Scouting organisations, it's just way less cumbersome in English. Didn't want to make this a voting matter for all of Wikipedia, we can figure it our ourselves. Chris 22:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter to me. I'll go with the majority vote. Let's allow this to run for 5-7 days.Rlevse 22:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

support moving. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
support - I agree it is a little smoother and more consistent with general naming practices on Wikipedia. Johntex\^talk 04:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Project logo - SVG version

Several days ago, I asked at Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve if someone would look at making an SVG version of the project logo. SVG graphics are completely scaleable. In other words, it doesn't matter at what resolution the image is displayed. If you display [[Image:Scout logo2.svg|20px]] or [[Image:Scout logo2.svg|1000px]], it will completely scale.

current project logo

SVG logo

Recoloured SVG logo

Consider the userbox and the portal logo:

This user is a member of WikiProject Scouting.

Scouting Portal

I think User:Time3000 did a great job with it ... if anyone would like to suggest some tweaks, please see Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve. Obviously, there are no policy issues here or any such thing - either or both versions of the logo can be used as desired - whatever is desired by everyone here. For a minor change (tweaking colors), I can probably do it myself. (SVG files can be edited by anyone in a text editor.) For anything major, we can ask at the graphics lab. --BigDT 17:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not good at creating/editing graphics except simple stuff, but I like the SVG version. I'm giving Time3000 a wiki MB (black and white one). I'm putting into our portal, project, etc. Rlevse 17:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The scalability of the original PNG file wasn't bad, although it definitely gets grainy when scaled beyond +100% or so, downscaling is better. But a nice SVG is good too. Would it be possible to re-add the embroidery look of it? Now is looks rather flat, even when there's the colour gradient. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
- I wish it were, but I don't think textures work in SVGs. --BigDT 23:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

This is one of the coolest collaborations our Project has produced-I was asked to create the original free non-specific logo, then Gadget Ed modified it, now this one, it just gets nicer each time. Next suggestion-can we plug it into the Commons to add a little color to our brother and sister German and French Scout WikiProjects? Chris 06:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

In addition, we have our own resident logo creation and cleanup genius in User:Zscout370, the work he's done on Belarusian and post-Soviet articles is vibrant and phenominal-I wonder if we can nominate folks for the Graphic Lab? Chris 06:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

ps-there are several images in the Gallery that could use some cleanup, so I came up with the half dozen in need of most help and asked Zach to look at them when he can. Chris 06:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I've already put the SVG and PNG versions in Commons.Rlevse 10:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Scouting Ireland

the scouting ireland article seems to be lacking of much information. and in other articles i can find hardly anything about scouting ireland, there are no mention of promise etc. could this be added to the project or sumthin?Daniel625 19:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but we need someone familiar with Irish Scouting. Try User:Stevecull. Rlevse

Proposed Changes to {{user vigil-n}}

I have created a proposed change to the {{User vigil-n}} user box at User:Z4ns4tsu/Sandbox2. It removes the options to change the box's colors, image, and text and instead uses options and parser functions to allow you to add your Vigil name and it's translation. Examples are at User:Z4ns4tsu/Sandbox3 and on my user page. Please look them over and then let me know if anyone else is interested in this at all. If not, I'll just leave it in my sandbox and use it myself. If so, we can discuss putting that code on the template's page. z4ns4tsu\^talk 17:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

OK with me. They can be added to Scouting user templates cat when adopted.Rlevse 18:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks like this will make the {{User:UBX/vigil}} and {{User vigil-n}} userboxes redundant. However, the coding is the same for the new vigil-n and the old vigil, so I would suggest that the new code be placed on vigil and a re-direct placed on vigil-n. Does that sound about right? z4ns4tsu\^talk 19:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me ... I was actually going to suggest that. When I originally made {{user vigil-n}}, I was a new user and didn't know about optional parameters. There's no real reason for two different ones. ;) --BigDT 19:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've made the changes. I spot-checked about five users pages to make sure they didn't break, and it looks good to me. I guess the next step would be to get the users who are pointing to vigil-n over to vigil so that the other can be deleted, but I don't know how to do that or who to talk to about that (I think it can be botted?). z4ns4tsu\^talk 21:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I have updated all transclusions and nominated the redirect for deletion at WP:RFD. --BigDT 18:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What Scouting really is

Scouting is too often confused with an association or the outdoors. That is not Scouting, those things are just veils to cover what we really do. Scouting (Girl Guides, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Ventuers, Explorers, etc) is really a program, system of beliefs, a way of living and thinking, all grounded in the same root, that we use to instill things like character, honor, and integrity. And for many of us, such as me, it's also an extended family. Let's stop worrying about how we're different and focus on how we're alike and what we're really about. (pasted from a thread at GSUSA talk) Rlevse 11:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Well said.Sumoeagle179 20:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Tin Tun

Would you please watch over this article? A biased newbie keeps editing out what I verified and documented. As a Scouting bio I don't want to see our pages violated. Chris 20:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Layout of wikiproject page

As Randy just reverted my alteration of the wikiproject page, I'd like to mention here that personally I find the page very cluttered. Finding the Table of Contents in the middle of section 2 doesn't help either. And I tried to find an obvious place for wikiproject announcements, but couldn't. Anyone else having an opinion on this? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 21:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Forcing actionable items way down past the nav pane isn't the answer either. Rlevse 23:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not doing away with the TOC then, and improving the navigational pane to actually do navigation?? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 23:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'm all open to improvement, but we shouldn't test on the live project page. Feel free to use my sandbox to testing, that's what I did when I made the nav pane. See email too. Rlevse 23:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  - WP:BB. Other answer via mail. Wim van Dorst (Talk) 00:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
  - likewise.Rlevse 00:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

invitations of great resources

Administrators and friends, I have sent invitations to join our project to two of the greatest Scouting resources on the net, http://www.troop97.net (maybe later) and http://n2zgu.50megs.com/ (no thanks). I must be doing it wrong. Would someone else take it upon themselves to invite the webmaster of http://pinetreeweb.com/ ? Thanks, Chris 03:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Pinetree web was asked before and said no, but anyone can try again. Rlevse 04:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Do we have something specific in mind we would like them to contribute? Also, have they made any specific objections as to why they don't want to help us out? Johntex\^talk 04:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

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