Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/Images and logos

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Contents 1 Images 2 a nasty line cutting logo 3 Proposed logo A 4 Proposed logo B 5 New Image 6 Minor issues

Images

I think the images would look better in an antialiased form, rather than one bit representations they are now. —Ben Brockert (42) UE News 01:05, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

They're just thrown together on short notice with Paint and the best font I could come up with that had the suitable Gothic-typeface newspaper-masthead feel to it. I would be grateful to anyone who has the capability to improve them. --Michael Snow 03:03, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Blankfaze made a new one, which looks good to me. Now, if he'll do Image:Signpost_vertical.gif... —Ben Brockert (42) UE News 22:26, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

Done, Image:Signpost vertical.png, There's also Image:Signpost-vertical.png as transparent, but it looks weird with the Monobook skin because of the way section title lines are rendered :/ iMeowbot~Mw 00:19, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Good job! BLANKFAZE | (что??) 05:47, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

a nasty line cutting logo

I like signpost, but I have a little layout problem : in articles, the line under the title (must be a box bottom border) cuts the logo-pic on the right. Maybe a white background could be sufficent. I use Firefox. gbog 08:01, 2005 May 23 (UTC)

what text size are you using?Geni 15:30, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it's related to text size. It occurs here too, with the top HR bar intersecting the vertical logo on the individual story page. -- Longhair | Talk 15:43, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok then what skin and screen res. I can't reporduce it with my setup.Geni 19:08, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I use 1024 x 768 and monobook. -- Longhair | Talk 03:32, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm getting the same thing, 1024x768, firefox on linux, monobook skin. I'll have a look at work on my much larger resolution monitor later. Thryduulf 07:45, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Same here. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:46, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

-- Longhair | Talk 11:09, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

That's how it's supposed to look I think. It could be "solved" by

1. Putting the image below the title, so it doesn't start until under the line.
2. Replacing the transparant background of the image file with a white one.
3. Putting the image in a div with a white background.

1 has my preference, as it doesn't break on skins with non-near-white backgrounds, and it looks prettier anyway, even without the transparancy issue. --W(t) 11:17, 2005 May 24 (UTC)

I agree that aesthetically, it would be nice to clean this up, but I have hesitated so far because it's relatively minor and I'm not completely satisfied with any of the alternatives. I agree with Weyes that the best alternative is simply moving the image below the headline's section header. I'm certainly not going to use a div; The Signpost is accumulating plenty of markup as it is.

My hesitation about moving the image down is related to another layout concern. The image is rather long—or tall, I suppose, but I think of it as "long" because it's almost always longer than the article. Moving it down will make it even longer, just adding to the useless whitespace below the text. I'd be happy to hear from more people on how they might balance these issues. --Michael Snow 17:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

To be honest, although I've noticed the line cutting across the logo I have never thought it was worth worrying about, and would have thought a lot of people wouldn't notice it at all. When I'm writing articles for the Signpost I tend to try and make them about as long as the image is, so if it was put below the line, my articles might be a paragraph or so longer! We could always resize the image slightly if it was to be put lower down. Worldtraveller 17:34, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm at this page primarily to read Signpost articles on Wikipedia, then be amazed by the page design. It's not a big deal, but it'd be nice to correct it to add that professional flavour. -- Longhair | Talk 17:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

the problem doesn't appear with the classic skin.Geni 18:17, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

How about using level 2 headers (=== ===) instead of level 1? It might be a misdemeanour against logical markup, but to be honest the horizontal rule under titles doesn't really do it for me anyway. --W(t) 03:01, 2005 May 25 (UTC)

Try previewing "[[Image:Signpost vertical.png|frame|right]]". The frame is similar to a white div but doesn't use html. Make sure to remove the alt-text. It takes a minute to get used to it, but it kinda looks like a old fashioned shop sign. I don't like the look of nontransparent images without a border so I prefer this over whitebacking the actual image. —Teknic^Talk/Mail 07:16, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the frame tag to this article so go check it out if somebody hasn't reverted it already. —Teknic^Talk/Mail 07:27, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Such a simple solution, but I like it ;) -- Longhair | Talk 07:31, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

On second thought I don't think it looks very newspapery. But besides that the border should just be added to the actual image file to allow more control and also to fix the archived stories as well. Another option would be to have no border but a blue background that blends with monobook (because that's the skin all the cool kids use) until the mediawiki bug is fixed then go back to transparency. —Teknic^Talk/Mail 08:09, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I figured out that it's not an easily fixable MediaWiki bug. There is no <hr> tag, just a bottom border on the <h2>, so some very messy <div> work would be necessary to ever fix it. —Teknic^Talk/Mail 09:51, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it is very easy. What needs to be done is a slight change in tactics. Currently, Signpost articles use the Mediawiki == markup to generate <h2> tags. However, if this code is used instead of ==, the problem is solved, without any "messy divs": <h2 style="border-bottom:none;">. This is due to the fact that Mediawiki does in fact allow h2 tags into text. Incidentally, it would also render the NOTOC line redundant, as Mediawiki doesn't count them. Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 13:07, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, Smoddy -- I think I found an answer using h2 rather than ==. I inserted <h2 style="margin-right:60px;">section title</h2>; since the graphic is 40 pixels wide, the 60px margin gives it lots of clearance. Go ahead and adjust if it looks poor on other browsers -- looks good on Firefox. Check the live result at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2005-05-23/Radio show; and I went ahead and added it to Worldtraveller's Template:Signpost article. — Catherine\^talk 18:46, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I think I prefer your version. It looks very good! Smoddy (Rabbit and pork) 22:49, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Perfect! That's beautiful.   —Teknic^T-M-C 23:09, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it's the best solution so far, and this week's issue uses the new format. While I prefer not to increase the use of HTML at the expense of wiki markup, in this case the aesthetic concerns can justify a small exception. Thank you, Catherine. --Michael Snow 04:24, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome! — Catherine\^talk 05:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Proposed logo A

This is my modification of http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Drachenweisheit.png by Meta user Susan.r which I assume is GFDLed; my version is at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Signpost_with_text.png and has the "Wikipedia Signpost" text added.

Image:Signpost with text.png

Would this be a better logo than our current one? --unforgettableid | talk to me 02:59, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Two questions from me, Harro5:

1. What is that thing?
2. What's wrong with the current logo? I love it! It looks a bit like the mastheads for the New York Times, The Times, the Washington Times (sensing a theme amongst the world's best papers...), The Age. The current logo brings class and a bit of parody (the whole Signpost has that feel) of a big-time broadsheet. Harro5 03:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

FWIW I quite like it, the current logo reminds me too much of 1940s newspapers! (Tho perhaps the text could be changed a bit; different font?) Mikkerpikker ... 03:08, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I like the new one. nice job! But what about combining the image from the new one with the font from the old one? -Bindingtheory 03:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The image is striking, yes. I would favor replacement of the snake-griffin-transformer-beast with the Wikipedia puzzle-ball, leading to a logo of the puzzle ball on the blue navigational backdrop. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly interesting. My gut reaction is that it's a bit too busy though. Does it really need the globe, arrows, and creature all layered on top of each other? And what exactly is the creature about anyway? Does it symbolize something? I would prefer to see something that incorporates the current logo in some way. Kaldari 04:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia puzzle ball + Current font? — Ilyanep (Talk) 04:12, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I might be old-fashioned, but I think I prefer the current logo. The proposed one is very good, and the creator quite talented, but I prefer the simple, elegant, newspaperish one we have now. — Knowledge Seeker দ 08:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I too prefer the current logo, for the same reasons as Knowledge Seeker. Thryduulf 10:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

So do I. Less is more; my kudos to the creator, but I like the "traditional" logo. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Combining this image, resized and in greyscale, with thecurrent logocould be interesting. We could extend the rightward arrow across the lettering. What you think? (unsigned comment by User:Circeus)

I think the logo is cool, though I don't think it shows what the signpost is about. The things I really like about it: The new font, and that it has color. I think the current font is cliched, and that the signpost page needs a bit 'o color. -Ravedave 04:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe the exsisting logo is better than this one. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I really like the icon, and believe the current logo should stay; but that the Signpost does need an icon which should be more modern. So I propose focusing on creating an icon; not a new logo per say. And even though I like the icon above; it needs tweaking... I'm just not sure what needs to be tweaked. - RoyBoy ⁸⁰⁰ 00:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed logo B

I don't want to use the puzzle ball because it shows up on every Wikipedia page already. Two puzzle balls on one screen would look weird.

Also, a mixing a modern logo with an Old English font would look weird. I do not think it's worth trying, though any of you with a copy of MS Paint or The GIMP (free and open source) or IrfanView (freeware) are welcome to try.

Below, I have mixed the current logo with http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Dixie_Highway_across_RR_in_Dania.jpg to create a new logo, called WikipediaSignpostHead2.png.

Image:WikipediaSignpostHead2.png

Is it yet time for us to vote on a logo: old, new A, or new B? --unforgettableid | talk to me 07:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't like the addition of the picture; as I stated above, less is more. I prefer the simple, "traditional" logo. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 16:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I feel the same as Flcelloguy. As far as I am aware, there has not been any discontent with it. - BanyanTree 16:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

If a picture is needed (and imho it isn't), then it needs to be one that is carefully thought out - most road signs are specific to a geographic area, potentailly appearing to be biased. The one used here doesn't look anything like any I've seen in the UK/Europe - the writing on it is also very distracting as you only just can't read it. Thryduulf 17:12, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I am not a professional logo designer in my day job, as you can see from the two logos I designed. :) I think a more colorful logo would be better, but if everyone else is happy with the current logo, I am not offended. --unforgettableid | talk to me 21:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'll definitely keep you in mind if we ever need a new logo to be designed. It's a great logo for a web site; it's just that I like the Signpost to pretend it's a print newspaper. — Knowledge Seeker দ 04:44, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I like the existing logo more. The additional picture may have aimed to make some humour, but I don't think it looks good in the signpost. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the existing logo. Nice and simple. -- Longhair 04:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

So do I; I doubt it's going to happen. A newspaper's logo is supposed to be simple and preferably text only. In short, I think the one we have is fine. Ral315 (talk) 19:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I also prefer the simple, traditional old style logo. -- Ianblair23 (talk) 02:16, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Keep the current one. enochlau (talk) 02:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Yup, the old logo is the best and most "newspapery" of the three. -- Derek Ross | Talk 05:38, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Prefer the current logo, but what about a more contemporary German blackletter font? I could browse what's available at my school, if an investigation was wanted. -- user:zanimum

New Image

What you guys think of this image for [1] . I just feel its more crisp looking. Tutmosis 23:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I personally find the version you link to to be a bit too ... filigreed. There is already available a crisper version in a similar but not identical font; I went searching in Wikipedia Images and found this ...

Compare to the image that is used for the present cover...

User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I like the current logo. Flcelloguy (A note?) 00:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

On my screen the current logo (second picture) looks better. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

What you guys think of my proposed logo? Tutmosis 01:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You should say "What you guys think of my proposed logo, pictured right below these words", and then append the picture. Then we may think. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to refer to them as first (proposed), second, third. I'd say the proposed is a bit too fancy, and the second one is way too pixelated and generally really ugly. I think the best logo would be a sharper version of the current logo; it does seem to be a bit blurry. - Pureblade | ^Θ 02:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, the logo's fine. Changing it's a bit premature at this point. Pureblade made a decent point; recently, Stevertigo added a grey outline to the letters. Did it look better before? I'd appreciate input on this, but at this time I'm not looking for a new logo, nor for an improvement on the current one. Ral315 (talk) 02:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Minor issues

1. WP:SIGN/N and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Tools were in an odd state (technically), I tried to fix it, and while I was at it I've added WT:SIGN to this page.
2. See Image talk:WikipediaSignpostHead.png for a proposed smaller image with better backwards cmpatibility, I can't judge if the output is really 100% identical:

   Image:WikipediaSignpostHead.gif

3. Image:Signpost vertical.png is a bit annoing from my POV, because my browser doesn't support inline PNG, what I get is a "broken image" icon. It also doesn't support CSS for floating, what I get is the "broken image" icon in an empty lead section with enough room to display an image of its (considerable) height. Fixing the latter might be as simple as

   {| align="right"

   || [[image:Signpost vertical.png]]

   |}

The inline PNG would still not work, but in that case it's okay, align="right" is (unlike "left") fragile wrt to wide tables and other elements not designed to float with something pinned at the right edge. Just using "left" is probably no option (?), no vertical image at all would be ideal as far as I'm concerned. If desired I could also create a GIF. -- Omniplex 21:24, 28 May 2006 (UTC)