Talk:Women in the Qur'an

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This is the real hadith: Where the husband beats his wife the matter is not so serious. Many women have come to the family of Muhammad, complaining about their husbands. Those (husbands) are not the best among you. [Abu Daawood] (Source:http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=9712&Option=FatwaId) The reason why the brackets (husband) is because in Arabic there is a male and female word for the word "those".

There are many translations of the Quran; however you have chosen to quote the only well known translation that has the 'softer approach' to dealing with women. Here's the Yusef translation and two others (same surah/ayah):

4:34:

Yusef: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Pickthal: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Yusef has made translation errors, which I wont put here. Mohammad has also stated things like "No man will be asked why he beat his wife." and regarding women complaining that their husbands beat them, he stated "Those are not the best among you." Were these also misquoted?!!

I do not believe that 4:34 should be changed.

Rach 06:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Ayah 4:34: When Allah(swt) says to 'beat' you wives this is mistranslated. Someone should change the Ayah to:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.” For more information go to: Islam Tomorrow [09:44, 5 June 2006 Farouk92]

004.034

YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I do not see that as a mistranslation. The words in brackets have been added by Yusufali - who is of course preaching to a Western audience who might not want to know Islam teaches the beating of women. But it is clear from all three what it means. It does not say "guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior". It says "nushuz" which means "rebellion" or the like. So the passage says, if you fear, notice it is fear not if she does, disobedience on the part of your wife, tell her off, try a bit of emotional cruelty and beat her - in no particular order. All at once if you like. Lao Wai 10:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't thin this should be merged.

The other article is about women in Muslim society, which is not the same thing as Quran. Furthermore, women in quran can also talk of female figures (like mary and asyia) that women in Islam couldn't talk of.Bless sins 11:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Vint 03:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Surely there should be some mention of the full 4:34 here? "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great."

It's a pretty vital one for women, no? Bert Preast 19:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll put it in as a continuation of the financial bit. Not really where it belongs, but I'm new here and major changes scare me. Bert Preast 19:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I took the "domestic behavior" part of 4:34 out of the Financial rights section, and placed it within the Right to Safety? category that I just created. But I also included a link to the former section within the latter, in order for one to read the whole verse (if need be) as opposed to just parts of it. Silver crescent 01:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a very good an interesting article, although I feel it is slightly biased towards putting the Quran in a good light with regards to women's rights. Maybe Im wrong though... --Burgas00 12:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I made the "Right to Safety" section a little more neutral, by adding Shakir and Pickthall's translations of 4:34, instead of only leaving Yusuf Ali's "more tolerant" interpretation there. Aside from that, I personally don't find the rest of the Rights of Women category within the article, to be biased in favor of the Quran in some manner. In the sections relating to inheritance and bearing witness (for example), it's stated that individuals criticize the fact or belief that the ratio is 2:1 on a female to male basis. Even in regards to divorce, the man seems to have somewhat of an upper hand. Following these statements are interpretive responses and explanations of certain Islamic scholars. So not only are some gender based imbalances within the Quran revealed in the article, but both sides have a say. At least that's the way that I see it. Silver crescent 01:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Burgas00 is correct in my view - the article is biased towards putting the Qur'an in a good light with regards to women's rights. For example under Womens rights -there is no mention of the Cairo variant of the Human Rights convention - which exludes the 'equal rights for women' that is part of the main human rights convention - the Cairo variant is used by Qur'an-influenced countries. anon 18 October 2006

To Silver Crescent - I don't understand the basis of why you reverted the section on marriage - you went back to a paragraph that fails to make clear the different rights men and woman have in marriage - uses unclear language. Eg, this sounds vague: "Although, the Quran does give the husband the primary responsibility to dissolve his marriage.." - is that not a right (that the woman does not have), so why do you revert to 'responsibility'?

According to the sources that I placed within parts of the divorce section ([1] and [2]), a woman may dissolve her marriage through a court or "Khula" (under certain circumstances). So although the husband "usually" has the authority to end the union, on certain occasions the wife can do the same as well. I'll change 'responsibility' to the word 'right', in order to make the sentence sound a little more balanced. Silver crescent 01:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)