Talk:Yakima, Washington

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Contents 1 Name 2 Issues section comments 3 NSA Listening Post 4 Incorporation Date 5 Illegal Immigration 6 Edler vs Ettl 7 North Yakima??

[edit] Name

Is the name "Yakima" a native one? It doesn't sound European, so I assume it is! Maybe the origin of the name is worth mentioning? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sam Francis (talk • contribs) 14:50, December 24, 2003.

It comes from the Yakama tribe, which lived in the area. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.119.2.90 (talk • contribs) 10:34, June 9, 2004.

No good answer as to the origin of Yakima. Early spellings include Yookooman, Eyakima, Yacamah, and Yakama. No certainty as to the meaning of the word (uncertainty of native Indian names is common here) Probabilities include: "Black Bear", "People of the narrow river", "Growing Family", "Big Belly", "Runaway" and others. Sources:

• Beyond The Bend : A history of the Nile Valley in Washington State. Gossett, Gretta Petersen. Ye Galleon Press.
• Of Men and Mountains. William O. Douglas. Lyons Press
• [1]

(feel free to use the above in the main text if desired) User:Hikingbert 20:21, March 17, 2006

[edit] Issues section comments

Added the Issues and Interesting Links sections, as well as a list of suburbs Yakima has. Integrated the above comment regarding Yakima's name into the article. Added the Notable Roads section. I believe I am qualified to do so because I lived in the city for over 15 years and moved less than four months ago. -- Celestialnight 07:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure Toppenish and Wapato qualify as suburbs of Yakima, by Wikipedia's own definition of the term. Or, if they do, a few other Lower Valley towns should as well. (Zillah, for instance.) Anyway, my idea of a suburb involves, among other things, a place where people go after leaving a city's central core, and I don't think that's been the case for these particular cities. -- Simon 22:04, August 11, 2004

I am a Yakima resident and after reading this article I think it is basically well written, but the Issues secion includes information that the average reader may not find helpful and does not really add to the description of the city. Rest assured I agree with your conclusions, but I can't help but wonder if the reader would be better served with data and a listing of attractions, industries, statistics about is population (education, professions, economic levels) rather than a description of the most recent and most glaring problems the city has to face? I do not intend to adjust this article, but I just wanted to provide food for thought. Mtgops 09:48, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)

I changed the spelling of the Yakama tribe and linked the correct page. I was born and raised in Yakima and I have a few suggestions comments. No mention of the Yakima River. The Issues section dosen't touch on migrant workers. A lot of issues seem to be POV. Needs a "famous Yakimaniac" (errrrr, what would it be? Famous Yakimanians I guess) like other cities have. William O. Douglass, Supreme court justice; Phil and Steve Mahre, Olympic medalists in skiing; Scott Hatteburg, major leauge baseball player; Mel Stottlemeyer, major leauge baseball coach; Kyle MacLachlan, actor. Cacophony 12:54, August 22, 2004

I have addressed some of the issues from here on the talk page and made the article more NPOV although it is hard to talk about Yakima's economy without sounding 'sad'. Also cleaned up the article in general. If anyone knows any more famous Yakima natives please feel free to add... Jacob Buerk 07:32, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Removed link to NWinfo.net - someone added a bit of commercialism here since it serves no purpose to the subject and no other businesses (non-informative on Yakima) are listed. Also added other national TV affiliates - don't think any should be listed as now we open the door to list every TV and Radio affiliate. Maybe they should be removed. User:hikingbert 17 Mar 2006

Does anyone know the dates of the recent retail problems downtown? The present article just identifies is as being "the past five years". Obviously a relative measurement like that isn't going to be useful ten years from now, but I can't correct it myself. Could someone who knows the years for those events make an edit there? -- January 16, 2007

• The downtown retail problems started when Nordstrom left. After that the Bon Marche announced its intentions to move to Union Gap and that put the nail in the coffin of the Yakima Mall. Nordstrom closed in 2001. The Yakima Mall closed in late 2003 I believe and 'Client Logic', a call center that at its peak employed over 460 people in the second floor of the Yakima Mall closed its doors in 2004. The Yakima Mall used to be the home to Nordstrom, JC Penny, Mervyns and the Bon Marche but these stores either re-located to the Valley Mall in Union Gap, or left Yakima completly.Mrhyak 22:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NSA Listening Post

The New York Times recently mentioned Yakima, WA, as the location of an NSA "listening post" for the west coast. I think this merits inclusion, but am not sure where it should go. Below is the citation from the NYTimes.com site: THE NATION: Private Lives; The Agency That Could Be Big Brother; December 25, 2005, Sunday; By JAMES BAMFORD (NYT); Week in Review Desk; Late Edition - Final, Section 4, Page 1, Column 5, 1715 words. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.132.143.49 (talk • contribs) 12:44, January 3, 2006.

[edit] Incorporation Date

The table says December 1, 1883. The article says January 27, 1886. The former is when yakima was founded in present-day Union Gap, WA and the latter is the incorporation of the town after it was moved north 4 miles. Essentially both dates are correct, but I propose January 27, 1886 be the normalized date and the official date for the table because I can remember the city's official centennial celebration happened in 1986. Although January 27, 1883 could perhaps also be mentioned in the article Rupertg 20:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Illegal Immigration

Why isn't there a larger discussion about illegal immigration? Though not politically correct to acknowledge reality, every objective person who lives in this town is aware of the tremendous negative impact illegal immigration has had on our town. Our gangs? Not black, white, native american or asian, our gangs are mexican. The yakima public schools fail everyone because they are forced to spend so much of their resources on teaching english. The welfare office and emergency rooms? Overwelmed by illegal immigrants and their offspring. Illegal immigrants are not bad people, but they have certainly impacted our town in a negative fashion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.178.50.218 (talk • contribs).

Well, there are two issues here: scope and facts. You're right in that it is a "larger disucssion", out of the scope of an article about Yakima. The opinions range across the spectrum on this subject, and many of them are based on politics more than facts. Looking at your edits to the article, it seems that you might need to do more to separate the two. Most of the social issues you attribute to illegal immigrants are actually related to poverty (lots of cities that don't have a large number of illegal immigrants still have gangs, overcrowded schools, and low academic acheivement). Granted, the language barrier in schools poses another difficulty, but that's not because they are illegal, it's because they are immigrants.

Of course, I'm no expert in sociology or economics, so what I say has no particular weight beyond my own experience. So you go ahead and add whatever you want to this article that is: 1) factual (if you can find a study or well-researched paper that blames gangs on undocumented Mexicans, knock youself out - just be sure to cite it in your entry), and 2) directly related to Yakima. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.189.201.135 (talk • contribs) 20:36, January 16, 2007.

I have repeadedly removed such comments not some much because they are xenophobic, but because they violate all three content policies of Wikipedia. Namely they are "personal theories attempting to use Wikipedia to draw attention to their ideas", only presenting one side of the story, and most importantly unverified. If you would like to include a discussion about immigration in Yakima please cite reliable sources and balance the benefits as well as the drawbacks of immigration. For instance, consider the reliance of the fruit industry on migrant workers. The fruit industry (and with it the economy of the region) would crumble were it not for the availibility of Mexican immigrants that are willing to work long hours in the hot sun for next to nothing. Immigrants have also contributed much to the local culture of Yakima.

This essay gives a good suggestion. What do you say you write about the positive contributions of Mexican immigrants to the Yakima Valley, and I will write about the negatives? Cacophony 06:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The fruit industry would disappear without illegals? Mythology, and nothing more. Growers would (and probably will) continue the mechanization process to eliminate their unskilled workforce. Grower profit margins might decrease a little but the fruit and vegetables would still get picked just as it did in the many decades before illegals came. If you are from Yakima then you know that up until the late 70's local kids were still being let out of some school districts (West Valley, Highland) for a few weeks to work the harvest. All of my relatives in my parents generation and grand parents generation either worked in the fields, the warehouses or both at different times in the lives. The reality of the illegal immigrant is that they are used solely because the are an easy to exploit employee (much like children) because they often lack any skills and are extremely desperate because their own attempt at democracy has failed. And the growers are more than happy to exploit a desperate and unskilled workforce that they can use to fatten their bottom line (think Grapes of Wrath).

Poverty has nothing to do with gangs, bad parenting has more to do with gangs than anything. Yakima has always been known for its high unemployment and yet the gangs didn't start here until the illegals starting permanently settling here in large numbers in the mid to late 80's. Even now, our gangs are made up almost completely of mexicans, and anyone who watches the local news or reads the local paper is well aware of that. Obviously, that can't be acknowledged here because the very concept stands in stark contrast to modern American "thinking," namely that, even if all gangs are mexican (often the children of illegal immigrants) we must find a way to blame that fact on poverty or racism in America- not mexican culture. Of course, it's perfectly acceptable to blame America in general or more specifically so-called "White" America for the problems of others as they (white americans)are, apparently, the only culture on the face of the earth who can be held morally responsible for any of their negative actions-real or imagined. Everyone else is off the hook, so much so in fact, that white Americans can be blamed even for the idiotic behavior (gang activity, etc.) of other races and cultures. And yet, given the choice between the societies they have created (latin America,etc.) and the society Americans have created, people vote with their feet as to who gets the society building thing right and who gets it wrong.

• Also being a Yakima area native I would have to agree with what was said about the influx of illegals during the mid 80's and the rise in crime, drugs, and gangs. The late 80's the east side of Yakima was called 'The Hole' by the newspaper, and it was often noted how Yakima was a large part of the Mexican drug ring. Anyone who lived in Yakima during these times knows what happend.

The farmers did just fine before all of the illegal immigration as well. Before the late 80's the high-school kids were hired to do the work. Now high-school kids can't get a summer job in the orchards because there are too many illegals to do the work, not because they wouldn't do the work. As for the school issue, its not an immigration problem....its an illegal immigration problem. The Yakima school systems are in very poor shape because if this, and all kids are suffering. I don't mean to sound so negative, but the facts are the facts. I still like my hometown, but its not what it used to be.Mrhyak 15:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edler vs Ettl

I am changing: "Dave Edler, Former Major League Baseball Player, former anchor of KNDO evening news,City of Yakima Mayor, Pastor" to "Dave Edler, Former Major League Baseball Player, City of Yakima Mayor, Pastor" because Dave Ettl is the former anchor of KNDO evening news. Common mistake among Yakimaniacs. We in Spokane understand..... -- 67.185.75.97 20:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] North Yakima??

I've noticed there isn't anything about North Yakima - you know, what is now Union Gap? I'm pretty sure North Yakima and current-day Yakima is one of the most famous aspects of the city - the fact that the whole city was moved from one location to the other, and the hotel actually stayed open the whole trip! When I have time, I'll find the specs and edit it myself, but I was quite surprised that wasn't even in the trivia! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.189.199.180 (talk) 21:25, 6 April 2007 (UTC).