Talk:Young Lords

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I started this one. I had some contacts with these folks circa 1970 in New York. Very interesting, very worth an article, but I don't have much special knowledge and would be doing web research just like anyone else. I've tried to write a stub and point to some uesful online sources. -- Jmabel 21:01, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

I've seen some stuff on them. They recently had a documentary on Puerto Rican Nationalism called "Mi Puerto Rico" (on WNET station of PBS of course). It was quite interesting and did some coverage of the Young Lords. I was surprised to learn that Geraldo Rivera was actually a Young Lord. After watching a Latino Public Broadcasting program called "Valley of Tears" I looked up the webpage for that documentary and saw that Juan Gonzalez (the journalist from the New York Daily News) helped produce it and in the little bio of him it said that he was actually the founding member of the New York Chapter of the Young Lords. It's always interesting to see what these guys were doing back in the sixties. I'll add some stuff to this in a few days. Jersey Devil 00:22, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm a researcher and teacher currently writing a dissertation, which will become a book, on the New York Young Lords. They were a very interesting and important organization that, unfortunately, too few people know much about. In the spirit of education, I need to correct Jersey Devil about a couple of things. First, Geraldo Rivera was not a member of the Young Lords. He certainly hung out with them and represented them in legal matters; but according to interviews I've done he was never "actually" a Young Lord. Second, Juan Gonzalez, while an important founding member and figure in the Lords, was not "the" founding member of the New York chapter. There were several other folks actively involved in that formative process. I hope that helps. A lot more deserves to be said about the YLO/YLP/PRRWO. JesusArocho 06:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I will volunteer to add some historial background and commentary on this topic - since I was the first woman on the Central Committee of the Young Lords Party, and was a part of the early history of the formation of the Young Lords Organization, New York Chapter.

The comment about Geraldo Rivera was correct - he was not a member of the YLO/YLP. He was however an attorney for the Young Lords, and as such was often a spokesperson in the media on issues that the membership could not comment upon for legal reasons. Geraldo gained local media attention via his link to the YLO, and shifted his field from law to media studies/journalism as a direct result of his contact with our organization and the issues we were organizing around.

Denise —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Denise Oliver-Velez (talk • contribs) 7 Dec 2005.

Contents 1 Lack of Ideology 2 Palante 3 Odd wording 4 So d'y'all want to smash the state after breakfast, or what? 5 Noncompliant? 6 A link

[edit] Lack of Ideology

This article provides no information on the Young Lords Party ideology. What was the point of their creation? What did they stand for? What work have they done to accomplish their goals? And what are they doing today? More information on these topics would be greatly appreciated.

Zigbigadoorlue 22:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

We do link to their 13-point program. But in my experience as a New York-area activist at the time, the Young Lords were not driven so much by genuine ideology as by emulation of the Black Panthers. There were some impressive individuals in the Young Lords, but they never achieved the Panthers' level of organization and coherence (which probably saved quite a few of them from the fate of Fred Hampton. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I think there are a couple of different issues here. First, in terms of ideology, Jmabel is pretty on target. The Lord's weren't driven so much by ideology in any orthodox sense; that said, they did articulate their "ideology" in a document called Ideology of the Young Lords Party. In terms of their level of organization and coherence, I'm not so sure that I'd agree entirely. When they split from Chicago and became the "Young Lords Party," they took on a party structure that was topically oriented (health, women, workers, etc.). Even before that point, however, they were divided up into ministries (defense, health, education, and information) and were "led" by a central committee. Even given that organizational coherence, the issue of individual leadership is a different matter entirely -- the issue of "impressive individuals" and group coherence or group ideology are separate. Does that make sense or am I being too cryptic? JesusArocho 17:25, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jmabel -I'd really like to know what you mean by "level of organization and coherence". Our organizational structure was similiar to that of the BPP, but there were differences. We were not driven by emulation of the Panther's, though the initial inspiration for the Chicago Lords came from Fred. The evolutuon of the YLO (Chicago) and YLP (NY and other locations) is too complex to discuss here in a short comment, but the ideology of the YLP was neither lumpen-based, nor CPUSA Marxist. The fact that we were dealing with the issue of Puerto Rico and a long history of both nationalist and independentista struggle made us clearly revolutionary nationalists - which is an ideological stance.

What saved the Lords from the fate of Fred Hampton was more than likely the fact that the Lords made it clear in public that neither our living quarters nor our offices contained weapons.

I don't want it to seem that I'm attacking you - actually I'm really overjoyed to find this discussion, and look forward to further dialogue. DeeOlive 16:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

My contacts with the Young Lords were entirely with the New York contingent and were not extensive; I had only the most minimal contact of with the Panthers while they were an active organization, so my impressions were mostly secondhand or by talking years later to ex-Panthers; so I could well be wrong in my impressions. Re-reading my remark above, I didn't really mean to emphasize "emulation": certainly the Lords' Puerto Rican nationalism was extremely genuine. But I still had the feeling, and I can't claim that it is much more of a feeling, that the Panthers just simply seemed to me to be more ideological, more dedicated to their broad program, whereas the Lords seemed more like they were simply driven by nationalism. Again, I could well be wrong: this all may reflect more whose path I've crossed thant the nature of the groups. - Jmabel | Talk 19:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Palante

May I assume that Palante is a contraction of para adelante? - Jmabel | Talk 03:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

That's an interesting observation that I hadn't considered. I'll be sure to ask around about that.... I know it was used because it was basically just slang connoting either progressive movement or "right on." The contraction makes sense, though ... and I *have* seen it spelled "pa'lante" (although not by the Young Lords as far as I can recall).JesusArocho 05:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes - Palante was a contraction of Para Adelante (Pa'lante) We dropped the apostrophe. DeeOlive 16:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odd wording

"While the Young Lords advocated similar armed strategies as the Black Panthers did, this rarely came out…" What is this last phrase intended to mean? Very unclear. - Jmabel | Talk 03:46, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

My fault. I was trying to give a reference to their support from armed self-defense and armed revolution just like the Panthers, but that it rarely played out like it did with the Panthers. - Bayano | Talk 9:32, 15 February 2006

I still don't understand quite what this rather convoluted sentence means to say. Could you take a shot at rewriting the whole sentence coherently, either in the article or here on the talk page? If it's easier for you to write it in Spanish here on the talk page, feel free, I'm sure I'll be able to translate. - Jmabel | Talk 04:32, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Let us not forget that Felipe Luciano was also a member of the young lords party as i recall from longwood ave. office.

as was richie perez.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Urbansurvivor (talk • contribs) 8 April 2006.

[edit] So d'y'all want to smash the state after breakfast, or what?

Having just mentioned Rat's articles on the NY Lords in an article on Rat (Newspaper), I followed my own link over here out of curiousity - partly because I've been admonished to write more objectively, and I wanted to see how you'd handle it. I too was immediately struck by this article's evasive and murky treatment of the question of armed struggle and all that. The FBI certainly considered it a central issue at the time! And in fact so did just about anyone who was serious about anything at that time - even if they opposed the idea strongly, it was ALWAYS a central concern. Either a group intended to challenge state power, or it didn't. If it didn't it was generally dismissed as sell-out, reformist, etc (even if the pacificism happened to be sound strategy - ML King being the best-known example; he was much vilified for refusing to entertain notions of arms even for self-defense.) The bloodshed of 1969-71 should put this in perspective - something like 38 (give or take a dozen) Panther leaders were gunned down by police and FBI - not always with return fire. No one became a leader or even a member of a group allied with the Panthers unless they were mentally prepared, at least a little, for war. The clinics and breakfasts were certainly not JUST a cynical ruse to give these groups a benign public image - they were audacious and authentic, as much as the more militant-looking activities were audacious and authentic. But to say ten or twenty things about the nice neighborhood programs and then slide over the warfare question is deeply misleading, and very typical of the sort of manipulative propaganda that has almost always characticized the extreme left, at almost all times and almost all places, no matter which sect or tendency is telling the public the story of their aims and programs. One reason that Malcolm X's reputation has stood the test of time and grown ever-larger is that he NEVER lied, fudged or prevaricated - or he sure gave a convincing show of never doing it. The same could be said of King, too, although he was firmly on the other side of the violence question. Let's try to follow the malcolm & martin example here - and tell the story of the young lords in a more realistic way. In fact I do want to know more, as I always found the YL impressive but never knew a whole lot about them. ON THE OTHER HAND (SECOND THOUGHTS): It occurs to me that it IS possible the YL actually were 90-99% focused on community improvement programs. That would be consistent with the general impression I have (from Rat articles, and radio interviews on WBAI with veterans of YL) - militant in principle, but really just more interested in human-to-human good works. Maybe you didn't have anything coherent to say about armed struggle because it genuinely doesn't much interest you? If that's the case, my apologies for accusing you of fudging. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.136.14.139 (talk • contribs) 25 June 2006.

I personally remember the Young Lords as being pretty militant in the sense of in-your-face, but I never particularly remember them talking about armed struggle. If you've got citations saying that they did specifically advocate armed struggle, that would belong in the article. - Jmabel | Talk 23:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noncompliant?

This article was tagged as "noncompliant" by an anonymous IP who offered no explanation either in edit summary or on the talk page about what might be noncompliant about the article. If this is not substantiated within seven days, I intend to remove the tag. - Jmabel | Talk 17:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A link

The site http://www.nationalyounglords.com was linked in the external links without explanation. I suspect that despite the name it is just someone's personal site; it also just seems to be a single web page. The information on the page looks accurate. - Jmabel | Talk 02:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

If, as looks likely, this page belongs to Jose Cha-Cha Jimenez, could someone suggest a way to verify that? - Jmabel | Talk 02:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

This is not Jose(Cha-Cha)Jimenez web site it is the National Young Lords web page and like our struggle, it is a work in progress. The Young Lords believe in self defense like any other human being.However, we feel it is our quantitative actions(our combined demonstrations,our door to door organizing,our education,our programs, our UNITY building and networks and coalitions,and our preparation of our People for Freedom Fighting)that are going to eventually lead to a qualitative change in our conditions. Today, we are not going to permit the C.I.A. and F.B.I. to trap us into promoting weapons or armed violence when it is they who are the terrorists.It is they who killed Chairman Fred Hampton,Manuel Ramos,Julio Roldan, and last year,Filiberto Ojeda Rios in Puerto Rico.This is not a John Wayne macho game my brother.Anybody can pull a trigger.Perhaps you would like to tell us about your big guns and your house where you have them stored.And I mean no disrespect. I just want you to see what it is you are asking us to do for your fudging fancy,in this Patriot Act time. At one time we were weapon slinging gang bangers and unclear of our need to make a People's Revolution.By working together with the Black Panther Party we learned that we are in a protracted struggle and that for self defense we also stand for peace.Those who stand for war are our enemies and we will fight them on our terms, and in any way that they choose.However,We are sane and the objective of any battle, is to keep yourself alive and to destroy your enemy.This means that we are going to kiss all the babies that we can until there are no more babies to kiss.Then we will try something else until we try all means and through our developmental actions eventually, we will achieve victory with the People.Continue to support the People's Struggle you give good feed back. It is also time, conditons, and where we are situated that determines what we should be about today.From the many struggles before us and those of today;from Cointelpro and other repressive campaigns with their misinformation and discreditation; we have realized that we haven't endured much yet, and that our fight is still in its infancy. The Young Lords as a human rights movement was founded in Chicago by Jose(Cha-Cha)Jimenez and other members of the then street gang,officially on September 23rd 1968.How more of a grasroots People's Movement could that be.Our mission has always been clear:Self determination for Puerto Rico,all other nations and for neighborhood empowerment.This is similiar to the Intercommunalism of Huey P. Newton.This is why Preacherman of the Young Patriots and myself joined Chairman Fred Hampton's call for a Rainbow Coalition.We realized early that we cannot do it alone and it cannot be done overnight.The beauty is that the world is with us and time is on the side of an oppressed People that are proactive. Our platform and survival programs are very important because they are tools for organizing and explaining our mission. We in Chicago and the Puerto Rican Nation are very proud of the Young Lords from the Big Apple, New York City.New York is where I first landed here and where most Puerto Ricans in the United States were forced to settle.Not to take nothing from the great work that has already been accomplished in New York;as Latinos first, we are also proud of the work of Nation building, for all of us in:Milwaukee,San Diego,Hayward,Grand Rapids,Los Angeles,Philadelphia,Newark,Hartford,Bridgeport,Orlando,Aurora,Racine, Boston,Waukegan,Rockford,Chicago Heights and other cities. We have always worked as revolutionary companeros or as true friends.We have all the same mission.We are all Young Lords and we will all uplift each other.Together, we will all strive for our primary revolutionary goal:to build unity with the many of the world inorder to Free Puerto Rico and others, and to defeat the few pigs, that currently are controlling the world and our communities.

Power to the PEOPLE!

Viva el PUEBLO!

Viva Richie Perez!

Viva Angela Navedo!

Cha-Cha

P.S.-Hello to Denise Oliver and other Young Lords and Friends