Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Euromalays

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, default to keep. Many contributions here were unhelpful for AfD consensus purposes (see WP:ILIKEIT). The term "Euromalays" is admittedly original research, but the article has now been moved to European Malays. Sandstein 22:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Euromalays

Euromalays (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

While I do not deny the presence of Malays with European descent, the title of this is a neologism. It only garners two hits on Google not including the Wikipedia link. Furthermore, Eurasian (mixed ancestry) already exists.--Chris S. 07:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. --Chris S. 07:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. In addition, the article is poorly sourced. Contributions from the anonymous editors of this article also leads me to believe that it was written by someone from Malaysia who, for some reason or another, has a deep preoccupation to human races (what Hitler would have termed as "racial sciences"). Take note that one of this article's sections is titled "Can the Euromalays be accepted as part of the Malay community?" which appears to be unencyclopedic and, in my opinion, biased. --- Tito Pao 08:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. MER-C 08:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, but improve --User:Matthewprc 13:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for giving me a chance to keep and update my article. I'll try to improve the website the best way I can. --Fantastic4boy 01:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Upon explaining the differen between Eurasians and Euromalays, Eurasians refer to the broader aspect and involve all types of Eurasians (Anglo-Indian, European-Filipinos, Filipino mestizos etc.) - it's more like generalising all types of Eurasians. Like Indos and European, this article specialises information relating to those who are a mixture of both European and Malay races. Furthermore, this article does not only relate to those who have Malay and European parentage, but also including those who have more dominant European genes (e.g. a person who is 1/4 or 1/6 Malay) - an example of a person who is of such descent was Maria Hertogh. This is what makes the Euromalays article stands out from the Eurasian (mixed ancestry) article.

The article could be improved by making a separate section for Euromalays who are from Malaysia, Brunei, etc. However, Euromalays (as proven by genetic research) can't include Filipino Mestizos, since Filipinos aren't Malays in the first place. Same goes with the Indonesians. However, if you still want to include Filipino Mestizos as well as Indos, one suggestion would be placing a tagline that "Euromalays can refer to people who are of mixed European and Malay Archipelago (not necessarily ethnically Malay, but living in the Malay archipelago) descent". -- User:Matthewprc

• Comment: please explain how this differs from ms:Serani, which is a far more widely-known term. cab 14:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, as it has been stated in ms:Serani, refers to those of partly European and Asian descent (it doesn't specify 'Malay' as the one and only term). That's why I've decided to use the term "Euromalays" (abbreviation for "European Malays") to distinguish this group of people from other Eurasians (i.e. "Serani" refer to Eurasians of whatever racial backgrounds - partly Chinese, Indians etc.). Note that the Malays are an ethnic group, not nationals of Malaysia (Malaysians are nationals of Malaysia). Therefore, to use the term "Serani" just specifically for someone who has Malay and European admixture would then be an incorrect usage. Do you understand what I mean? --Fantastic4boy 17:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, that Tony Fernandes man looks partly Indian and partly Portuguese, he doesn't look Malay at all. --Fantastic4boy 18:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I am also Malaysian and well aware of the difference between Malays and Malaysians. What you seem not to be aware of is that Wikipedia has a policy against original research, which, among other things, advises that we should not be inventing new words. You state That's why I've decided to use the term "Euromalays" --- however this is not your decision to make. The name of the article should be based on what these people are referred to in newspaper articles, scholarly works, etc.

In any case, creating an article for every possible type of mix seems like the wrong way to go about subdividing the topic of Eurasians. Those of the same descent, but in different countries may have very little in common with each other anyway. I'd suggest Eurasians by country instead. So I vote to Keep the article, but only on the condition that it's renamed, refocused, and most importantly, sourced. cab 01:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your helpful advice. I find you to be a generous person. I now understand that Wikipedia does not allow us to invent new terms since that they have not been shown on newspaper, magazine etc. as solid evidence yet and that they consider doing such thing as talking nonsense and making arguements without proof - Wikilawyering. Do you then think the term "Eurasians with European and Malay lineage" or "European Malay descendants" be appropriate for Wikipedia? --211.24.155.43 09:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Merge into Mestizo or keep and rename as Malay mestizo or similar. (I personally am not aware whether the word mestizo is used in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, or Brunei.) The article contains a lot of useful information pertaining specifically to people of mixed Malay and European descent. —Lagalag 12:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and Improve - if the article cannot be improved, Merge it with existing related articles. --RebSkii 18:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.