Talk:Excel Saga/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Does Hyatt actually die? I kind of got the impression that she just fainted a lot. -- Darac 18:08, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

My mistake. In Episode 5, Excel wonders about Hyatt's habit of dying. -- Darac 08:27, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Somebody else has already corrected it, but for the record: Quack Experimental Anime Excel Saga really is the series' actual title, not a value judgement by the author/s of this article. --Paul A 04:35, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

On a related note, no one had any comments so I went ahead and added some information about Weird Anime Excel Saga. It's not clear where the other name came from (I think it was from fan translations but I couldn't verify this), but it is definately widely accepted as an alternate title for the series and many people know it exclusively by that name. Jared Grainger 17:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

ACROSS vs Across

Does anyone know if the organization's name is ACROSS (i.e. an acronym of something) or simply Across (the word)? If it's an acronym, an ideas on what it stands for? --Darac Marjal 09:30, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It isn't an acronym, but it is properly ACROSS. According to the footnotes in Viz's english release of Excel Saga Volume 1 (manga), it is a pun on a organization called ACROS (if memory serves). MardukZero 03:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Correct. From TFA: ACROSS itself is named after the ACROS (Asian CrossRoads Over the Sea) Jongpil Yun 07:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Gundam?

In the episode guide, it says that Episode 22 is of the same vein as Gundam. Admittedly, I haven't seen Gundam, but to me Episode 22 seems extremely inspired by Captain Harlock. Can someone who has seen Gundam comment on this?

I see that the page notes it is in the vein of Gundam and Leiji Matsumoto (at least now, it does). While the Matsumoto parodies were more obvious and common, there were numerous Gundam references and parodies as well (such as the Puuchu Gundam Excel pilots and a handful of character/event references). Also, it's the same general tone. MardukZero 03:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

As far as I can tell (I haven't seen any of these), they just grabbed a buncha different references and clummed 'em together with Excel and Hyatt running around beneath it. Kinda like Spaceballs, or just about anything by Mel Brooks for that matter, except more ... direct. --Yar Kramer 05:28, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are many Gundam references in this episode. Lines from Char, Amuro and other scenes from Gundam are parodied. These are quite direct and obvious references for anyone who has watched Gundam in the original japanese. Gundam is also parodied in the Excel Saga manga. --Schopenhauer7

But don't forget the masks! --maru (talk) contribs 19:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I was under the influence this episode was parodying Star Wars :p (X-Wings, Death Stars), like when Excel is leaving on the fighter you see the white haired puuchu saying good luck. That scene is reminiscent of Star Wars when luke first flies the fighter plane. Although I am not disagreeing with the blatant Gundam references --Genjix

Actually that very scene (the one with the white haired puchu saying good luck) is also a Gundam reference. Excel gets in the puchu gundam and after jumping around a bit looks up, gets this melancholy look on her face and says the following:

でもこうやって戦いに慣れていくのね。

demo kouyatte tatakai ni nareteikunone.　

As I have never seen the translation I am not sure how AD Vision did this but it should have read something like "but this is how we get used to battle"

This is parodying a line spoken by Sayla Mass in Gundam (I don't have the ep number off hand)

Right after that Excel says what must seem like nonsense to someone who hasn’t seen Gundam but makes perfect sense if you have:

わたしはあの人に勝ちたい

watashi ha ano hito ni kachitai

ADV should have went something like "I want to beat/win against him"

This is parodying one of Amuro's famous lines (I believe Amuro actually said "ぼくはあの人に勝ちたい"). Amuro was actually talking about Ramba Ral but Excel is probably just whipping out famous Gundam lines for comedic effect. Although it is also likely that they chose this particular line on purpose because of the Pedro side story. The person who Pedro ends up fighting against is referred to as "ano hito" (once again not sure what ADV did here "him" "that person" something like that)

Now we are at the "good luck" scene. The white puchu comes on the screen and says:

あなたならできるわ。頑張って。

anatanara dekiruwa. ganbatte.

ADV prob went something like "you can do it. good luck"

This is actually a parody of (once again) Sayla Mass who says the very same thing to Amuro (Amuro liked being told that about as much as Excel)

OK after that scene the puchu fighters are launched and then we switch to Excel once again. She is sitting in the cockpit and says:

エクセル、行きます！

EKUSERU, ikimasu!

(Really not sure what ADV did here as this line just doesn't work in English but maybe they said something like "Here I go" or "Excel is going" or "Excel launch" or something (you just can't do this justice in English))

Now this is THE Gundam reference. It is what Amuro says when he launches out of White Base in Gundam (although not every time)

Next: Excel is launched into space and after telling the other fighters that they will have to invade the base she flies off to the side and suddenly gets this very serious look on her face. Then all of a suddon we see this kind of "lightning" flash of light. This is a parody of Amuro when he gets his special intuition from being a Newtype. This intuition really comes in handy when Amuro is fighting his rival Char Aznable. Which brings us to the next parody. Suddenly Excel is faced with a giant puchu version of the very last mecha that Char rides in the original Gundam. Char is one of the most popular characters in Gundam and his most recognizable feature was his mask/helmet that he insisted on wearing everywhere. So we then find ourselves looking at a puchu version of Char who says:

認めたくないものだな、若さゆえの過ちというものを

mitometakunai monodana, wakasa yue no ayamachi to iu mono wo

something like "we don't want to admit mistakes due to our youth" (once again awkward in English, wonderful in Japanese (also awkward because I am just rushing out the translation on the fly here))

This is also a one of THE Gundam references and it is one of Char's first and most memorable lines. Now Excel responds with a line that must once again have seemed to those who don't know Gundam like the laws of causality had disappeared. She says:

なぜあの人を巻き込んだんですかって誰だよ！

naze anohito wo makikondandesuka tte dare da yo!

(maybe "Why did you involve her/that person in this. ... Who are you?)

This is a line from Amuro turned into a little joke. Now the who are you is simply a joke from the fact that Excel really shouldn't know who she is talking to but the rest is what Amuro said to Char in the battle after Amuro

(*******SPOILER ALERT*********)

killed fellow newtype (and Char's girlfriend) Lalah Sune accidentally when they were fighting. Although Lalah was fighting for Zeon and not the Federation Amuro was deeply wounded by her death and held Char responsible for allowing her on to the battlefield.

Now once again this line may have been chosen because of the use of "ano hito".

OK all that being said there are still even MORE Gundam references in the episode but I don't have the time right now to get to the rest.

--Schopenhauer7

While I don't doubt that there are Gundam references, I've been told by Japanese natives that the "Star Wars" episode draws heavily from Space Battleship Yamato, which is one of the oldest and most influential sci-fi animes of all time. Someone did mention Leiji Matsumoto but they neglected to say that he created Yamato. Jared Grainger 17:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Not a major issue, but Matsumoto Leiji did not create the Yamato: the project was already well underway before he joined it. He was unquestionably a heavy influence on what eventually came out, but it was not entirely his original creation. Elric of Grans 21:46, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, don't take my post as trying to say that that episode was mainly a Gundam parody, it is most definitely Leiji Matsumoto's work which is being parodied with Gundam and others on the side. That much is made very apparent when Excel takes out her copy of "宇宙戦艦なんとか" --Schopenhauer7

Episode 5 (Interesting Giant Tower) question

An older revision said that episode 5 had references to Resident Evil in it; I've never played RE and the plot summary on its Wikipedia page doesn't ring any bells, so I took that part out. Can someone with more experience with the game help me out here? -lee 16:35, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'd say it's the fact that an unusual substance (in this case, the drinks Hyatt was handing out) is turning people into zombies, but this is tenuous at best, which is probably why it's only in an older revision. Yar Kramer

Well, actually, the video culutural notes say that the RE reference is in that the clues are written on the bathroom stall walls, similar to how, in RE (I'm only assuming, I haven't played the games), clues are written in bizarre, out-of-the-ordinary places. I believe that's what the original author of that excerpt had in mind. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:28 (UTC)

Ilpalazzo vs. Il Palazzo

Now I'm not sure, but last time I checked Il Palazzo was spelled as Ilpalazzo in the DVD subtitles. Am I just imagining things, or should we be correcting something?

I dunno... compared to Hyatt, he's merely Slightly-Under-The-Weather Palazzo. ;) --Yar Kramer 05:24, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've always seen it as "Ilpalazzo." I've never seen it spelled as two different words. You might as well write that his name is spelled "Iruparatso" as long as you're on the train of thought that it's two words. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:29 (UTC)

Alright, I've looked into the matter and have come to this conclusion: His name is Il Palazzo in the manga (since it's meant to be the name of a hotel), but is Ilpalazzo in the anime (since the hotel pun is absent from the animated form). I'm sure this conclusion is completely wrong, but it will have to suffice to explain the difference in spelling. Kakashi-sensei 5 July 2005 23:40 (UTC)

Removing Shioji

12.76.171.15, why are you removing Gojou Shioji from the list of characters? I think he's significant enough to warrant mention. Certainly a more significant character than Cosette, whom I note you did not remove. At least put comments on your edits as to why. --Yar Kramer 02:50, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

They removed it from the other characters list as it was already included in more detail further up. I have removed it again but included a comment this time. Garglebutt / (talk) 05:48, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Upset Audience

I think that the phrase "This was the first episode that actually upset audiences." at the end of the description of episode 22 is a little odd, is there some kind of refrence to a protest or pulling from air in japan or some other kind of outrage to back this up? Certainally there may be issues of controvertial content or parody to the point of plaugarism, but this could easily be said of many other episodes before this point. I'm just getting the feeling really that these "audiences" may just refer to the poster themselves, ie. non neutral point of view, but I didn't want to delete it incase it was something I wasn't aware of. - Mancubus

... Y'know, now that you mention it, I'm wondering that, too. It certainly doesn't say how or why they were upset. --Yar Kramer 15:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and delete it since there's no apparent source, nothing I've found on google, and it just seems out of place. Jongpil Yun 07:03, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Significant Revision Desired

Hello, all! I'd like to significantly revise this article for style (and also some for structure). I've already prepared a revised Overview, but I wanted to see if there were any objections. I can post an example of what I'd like to see, if it's desired. --Monocrat 22:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

... Yeah, that sounds like a good idea, actually. Why doncha go ahead and post it. --Yar Kramer 04:17, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's the meat of what I propose for the Overview:

Both the manga and the anime follow the trials and tribulations of the secret, ideological organization ACROSS in its quest to conquer the world and rid it of corruption, starting with just one city, "F City, F Prefecture" in the anime; this is short for Fukuoka City, Fukuoka Prefecture. ACROSS is lead by the Lord Ilpalazzo, who justifies his one-city-at-a-time strategy by saying that "[c]onquering one city is a reasonable plan that allows some leeway for setbacks." However, ACROSS consists merely initially of only the Lord Ilpalazzo himself and Excel ("First name 'Excel,' last name 'Excel'"), a quick-but-dim witted blonde, whose main virtues are loyalty, energy and determination. Excel is joined in the second episode by Hyatt, who is much smarter than her sempai, but who has an unfortunate tendency of suddenly dying and reviving for no medically known reason. Excel and Hyatt are often accompanied on missions by their pet and emergency food supply, Menchi (known in the manga as Mince). In the manga, ACROSS is further augmented by Elgâla, whose lack of internal monologue is often a source of tension with her coworkers. Although there is very little continuity between episodes for the first and second thirds of the series - each episode being an "experiment" in parodying various genres of anime and other media - elements from the experiements build slowly into the main story, which culminates over episodes 22 through 25 in the battle for F City.

All of this would go under a sub-heading "Plot," and the rest of Overview would go under "Nature of Excel Saga." Additionally, there's some material in the Overview referring to Rikdo-sensei that mostly repeats what's in his character description below, material which could be deleted or removed. And since the consensus seems to be that "Ilpalazzo" is prefered in referring to the anime, I'd like to change instances of "Il Palazzo" and make a note of the discrepancy. I'm so enamored of Excel Saga that I'd love to see its page be of a quality similar to Eva or Blackadder.--Monocrat 14:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Hakusa - Wiki addict: 00:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC) I think a revision that needs to take place is, many of the characters aren't in the manga, or are substantialy different in either version, but are listed as practicly the same person. The best example is the Dr. who is described in this article as a horrible docter, but not distinguished from the anime, inwhich he never exercised malpractice.

I was thinking of revising some of the article, but wanted to run my suggestions here first.

For charactors only in one version, to have (manga only) or (anime only) next to their name to help differenciate.
1. For charaters in both, but with substancialy different characteristics, to have two seperate paragraphs.
  1. Either get rid of the episode guide, or add a Manga guide.
    1. Anything else that needs further fixing.

In what I'm drafting, I'm trying to make the distinction between the manga and anime characters more distinct. And the Episode Guide could easily go in a separate article.

Also, I removed the "anime-only" note, since the creation of the episode guide obviated it. (Forgot to sign comment above.) --Monocrat 02:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Apologies, for some reason the computer wasn't logged-in when I did the re-write this afternoon (26 September 2005). --Monocrat 00:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Menchi

Do we ever learn Menchi's breed? The article states that she's a Chow Chow, but I don't remember the anime ever mentioning that. Also, doesn't the manga imply that she's actually not a dog, but a highly intelligent and highly valuable mammal akin to dogs? (Understanding that Excel often calls her a dog or mutt or some such - and I remember the Dog -> Animal -> Food text in Ep. 1 - but I never took Excel-kun to be much of a zoologist.)--Monocrat 15:19, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah ... my dad and his girlfriend have both said that Menchi's pretty fricking small for a chow-chow. --Yar Kramer 15:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Not only is he much too small; he doesn't look anything like a chow-chow. Unless this is explicitly stated somewhere, methinks it should be dropped. 82.166.54.68 23:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall now that in episode 18's preview for Menchi's second adventure (episode 19), Excel's subtitles say "I don't speak pomeranian!" I don't know what that's worth, but there it is.

--Monocrat 18:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure if I am helping things out much here either but if indeed that was the subtitle for the preview in ep 18 I believe that this was a contribution by ADV themselves. All Excel says in Japanese at the end after Menchi barks a little is "犬語わかんない" (inugo wakannai) or "I don't speak dog"--Schopenhauer7

I noticed that about a week ago. I've cut most of Menchi from this article, anyway, but I'll keep this in mind at Characters of Excel Saga. And even ADV's subtitle is better than wild speculation! :)--Monocrat 14:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Episode Guide

Is there any objection to moving the episode guide to its own article? As it is, it takes up quite a bit of space on the main entry. --Monocrat 17:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I just moved the episode guide to this page.

Minor Characters Page

In addition to kicking the episode guide to its own page, I'd like to consign some of the minor characters to a page dedicated to them: consider that if Cossette Sara and Tetsuko are included on the main Excel Saga entry, then certainly Red Beard, Zed, Antonio, and Key should be as well. These characters do not need to be on the main page, but they deserve mention. Those last two could conceivably go on the main page, since Antonio is based on one of Rikudo-sensei's assistants, and Key represents a major plot development. In order to eliminate confusion, I'd like to propose the following rules for characters' inclusion on the main Excel Saga page:

They must represent major plot or sub-plot elements or developments, and
They must have appeared in at least three episodes.

The first eliminates characters like Dr. Iwata and Pad, while the second eliminates one-off characters like Key, the Puchuu overlord, and Nabeshin's pals. Essentially, this is a way to keep the main page reserved for the prinicpals of the ACROSS-Daitenzin and Nabeshin-Ano Hito-Pedro stories.

Yes, there is an obvious bias towards the anime in the second rule, but the first criterion I think rises in importance - Dr. Iwata and Nurse Fukuya appear more often in the manga, but they're still relatively unimportant. It's a little subjective, but better than nothing. --Monocrat 15:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Is Excel Saga bizarre enough to...

...be included in the category Category:Absurdist_fiction? If so, could you please add? Certain elements of Excel Saga remind me of FLCL by the way, especially the parodies of Lupin III in both series. --Geopgeop 08:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd say if Terry Pratchett makes the list (his works are mostly parodies of other fantasy books), then Excel Saga probably qualifies. However, Excel Saga is pretty non-notable in that the number of people who have seen Excel Saga compared to the number of people who've read Pratchett or Douglas Adams, or even seen FLCL, is pretty small. Jongpil Yun 07:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Really? Okay, in the English-speaking world, I can understand Pratchett and Adams, but, uh, where are the numbers comparing Excel Saga and FLCL? --Yar Kramer 17:49, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Dr Iwata in Excel Saga Anime

"He is a more important character in the manga than the anime."

Which episode is Dr Iwata actually in Excel Saga? Genjix

I need to rewatch it for the episode number, but when Excel and Hyatt are working on Christmass, and Hyatt dies and it taken to hospital, the doctor who declares her dead is Dr Iwata. He makes another appearance or two later on, but that is all. He does appear more often in the manga.Elric of Grans 01:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

F県F市 - "F City, F Prefecture"

This may seem like a minor gripe but the Wikipedia entry states:

"F City, F Prefecture" in the anime; this is short for Fukuoka, Fukuoka.

While F City F Prefecture is most definitely Fukuoka City, Fukuoka Prefecture I think it is slightly misleading to say that it is "short" for this. This is more like a kind of nudge nudge wink wink Rikudo Koshi is doing with his readers and not some sort of abbreviation for Fukuoka.

--Schopenhauer7

Manga/Anime Separation?

As I continue to read the manga as it is released in the US, it seems that the plots of the anime and manga are becoming further and further separated, I am wondering how people would feel about having separate plot sections or maybe a full separation into Excel Saga (Anime) and Excel Saga (Manga); we could use the character separations previously suggested if so. I am not skilled enough to do so myself, and at any rate I hope there is some consensus first. In the meantime, I will add info from the manga where applicable.

--Idleeccentric

I don't think a full separation is really needed, at least not at the moment. However, I think your concern is valid. It could, methinks, be mostly addressed by moving the Characters section to its own page (as I note below). But the Plot section would require some work to try not just to disentangle the two, but to speak more about the manga. A formal separation in the Plot section might be useful, but I fear they would be too small. --Monocrat 20:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Great Will

Since in the anime it is a plot point does anyone know who voices pederos wife and IZ chan in the japanese and english versions? Ive searched up and down but cant find it.--82.42.191.189 13:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the voice of the Daiuchuu no Ooinaru Ishi (大宇宙の大いなる意思) was Yuko Mizutani (水谷優子) who btw was also the voice of Mihoshi in Tenchi Muyo. --Schopenhauer7

Further Proposed Changes

My ultimate objective is to make Excel worthy of being a featured article, but it's not quite there yet. To that end, I propose the following:

That the "Characters" section be moved to its own page, leaving brief synopses for Excel, Hyatt, Elgala, Ilpalazzo, Menchi, Kabapu, and Nabeshin;
That the "Overview" section be reogranized and moved into the article's lead;
That the TV series infobox be replaed by an animanga infobox, and
That the prose be cleaned up a bit.

These are fairly major changes, and the article has been stable for a while, so I think seeking consensus is the way to go.--Monocrat 20:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

No. 2 done. No. 4 partly done. Understanding that it goes against Wikipedia preferences, I deleted many of the shows that the introduction previously mentioned as being lampooned in the anime. There were just too many, and not all of great importance to the plot. --Monocrat 17:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pedro's surname

Where do we learn that Pedro's family name is "Dominigo"? The Japanese Wikipedia for Excel Saga simply lists him as ペドロ.

I have found he's mentioned by surname in his review episode.--Monocrat 05:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

GA

Excel Saga is now a Good Article, congratulations. H ig hway ^{Rainbow Sneakers} 22:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes congrats. Looks much better than the other day too I might add.--SeizureDog 23:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A quack editorial experiment?

I've attempted to make the article more consistent and logical by merging the plot and character sections, consolidating and deleting overlap whenever possible. Major plot developments have been moved to the end of the new section under "Storylines." I don't know if this will work, but I figured it's worth a shot. One can always revert!

Minor notes

which aired on TV Tokyo at 1:45 a.m.: Needs a time zone.
Replace use of hyphens, "-", with true dashes,"—", where appropriate.

I told you they were minor. Well, it's going through the FA process so I'm allowed to be anal ;) --SeizureDog 03:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Minor changes are always welcome. The ACROSS–Daitenzin instance was the only one I thought really warranted a dash, but let me know if you have other thoughts. I changed hyphens in the External Links to colons, just to cut the knot of which dash to use.--Monocrat 04:26, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Citation Spot Check

Here are the results of a citation spot check on this article.

Footnote 4 (a): "The English-language reception of Excel Saga, the anime, was generally positive, likening the humor in nature and quality to the works of Tex Avery and Monty Python."
- Checks out. From site: "Featuring an engaging cast of oddball characters in an anything-goes action/adventure/comedy/sci-fi/romance/tragedy/horror tale, Excel Saga will be treasured by anime fans who also appreciate Monty Python, National Lampoon, and Tex Avery. Much like their works, Excel Saga is the sort of thing you will be showing to your friends repeatedly at get-togethers for years to come."
Footnote 21: "The first fourteen volumes of the manga have been translated into English and published in North America by VIZ Media, who have announced a December 2006 release for the translation of the fifteenth volume."

Checks out. From site: "Release date: 2006-12-12"

Footnote 24: "A contrary opinion is expressed by Pearce from DVD Verdict, who says the series is "occasionally clever and funny," but that "much of it is gratingly obnoxious.""
- Checks out. Both quotations appear on site.
Footnote 5 (e): "Regarding the English vocal track, reviewers note that Calvello and Wolcott were each able to capture Mitsuishi's Excel."
- Checks out. "From site: Speaking of the voices, this volume marks Larissa Wolcott's debut as the English dubbed voice of Excel. Jessica Calvello, Excel's original American voice, threw herself so wholeheartedly into recreating Mitsuishi's screechy chatter that she promptly damaged her vocal chords and had to retire mid-production. Wolcott is as good a replacement as can be, but somehow manages to makes the character even more grating than she already was. There's something of Project A-ko's C-ko in this new Excel. Still, the voice is supposed to be annoying, and Wolcott and the other new cast members are worthy additions to an already stellar ensemble."

My major concern with this is the heavy reliance on citing episodes of the show. It appears that this has been fairly heavily documented and reviewed; could secondary sources be found for the statements cited to episodes? --Robth^Talk 15:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, most of the content attributed to the show itself (i.e. the plot) needn't be cited in the first place, at least not with footnotes. -- grm_wnr Esc 15:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

It's been several days since any material actually cited or even quoted the primary sources. All references to them were directed to the commentary/notes provided by ADV and VIZ. I had a note to this effect at the beginning of the references section, but people seem not to have seen it. I have clarified this matter by making the attributions in the citations themselves. And how is "December 2006" misleading? The full date is fairly unimportant in this article, but is given in List of Excel Saga media.--Monocrat 17:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, my fault about the December thing; when I was writing this up I originally had a comment about how I expected to find a note explaining the translation of the other fifteen there; then I thought better of it and realized that there wasn't any way to make it clearer what the footnote was referring to without altering the text, so I pulled the comment, but left that bit. And I did indeed miss the disclaimer at the top of the notes; thanks for clarifying that. --Robth^Talk 18:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Layout suggestions.

I have a couple of layout suggestions which I haven't made myself as I think they may be unimportant in getting the article to FA status. The Other characters and Going too far sections wrap at higher resolutions against the pictures. Perhaps <br style="clear: left;"/> could be used. Also should the Excel Saga template be in the external links section? They are internal links and could be moved higher in the article, perhaps just before external links. --Squilibob 03:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your concern about wrapping, and I thought nav-templates went at the bottom of the article. But please make any changes you think would improve the article. :) --Monocrat 04:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

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