Talk:Falafel

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Contents 1 Etymology 2 Image 3 Israeli and Arab falafel 4 Indian falafel 5 Lebanese? 6 French fried potatoes, known as chips? 7 Bedouin origin

[edit] Etymology

The dictionary says falafel means "little peppers" and that it's actually derived from latin "piper" meaning pepper.

• In Arabic, that would be filfil (فلفل) rather than falafel (فلافل); there is one more letter in the word falafel. --Khalid 22:24, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

I've seen this etymology, however, in several dictionaries, such as the American Heritage Dictionary: "Arabic falāfil, pl. of filfil, pepper, probably from Sanskrit pippalī." I'm going to go ahead and add it. Unfortunately, I know neither Arabic nor Tamil. Lesgles 15:34, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

What I've seen is falafel <(Eng) felafel < fulaful*, the plural of ful. This always made sense to me, since falafel was traditionally made from fava beans. --Mgreenbe 17:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

No, falafel is the plural of filfil, I don't know if ful has a plural but if it did it couldn't be falafel. Falafel is almost always in my experience made with chickpeas, which are called "hummus" in Arabic. By the way, falafel as street food is surely almost always a sandwich (in pita bread or otherwise?) I think there is a little redundancy in the current way this is phrased. Palmiro | Talk 21:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation! Redundancy fixed, good point. --Mgreenbe 09:05, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image

The image here is probably woo non-free, so it should be recreated. If someone can cook up a batch and take a picture that would be great (I can't find any in my local shops) — Zeimusu | Talk 03:31, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

In this case I'll remove the link. When we will have a new picture we can add it again Matteo 14:01, 2005 Mar 9 (UTC)

[edit] Israeli and Arab falafel

This was bound to happen. I deleted 207.255.174.254's controversy section because it was poorly composed and (I may be POV here) inaccurate. I'm currently living in Israel and have never seen "Israeli falafel". There is, in fact a distinction between Israeli and Arab falafel -- I find the latter to be bigger and more richly spiced, often to the point of a piquant sourness. This might be something nice to mention.

No one in Israel is trying to say that Israelis/Jews invented falafel. In fact, my experience has shown that falafel (and pita, by the by) is seen as a uniting force, which brings many Israelis into the Arab communities and vice versa. I've yet to encounter 'dismay' on either side that the other eats falafel. I would be interested to see a source on the "dismay" and "theft" mentioned. --Mgreenbe 11:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

This is the person whose edits you have deleted. You claim that I appear biased in my edits. It seems amusing to me that you don't feel the same way about yourself, being a Jew. I'm not predjudiced agaisnt you or your people, but I am also not afraid to tell the truth. Many stores claim many Arabic foods as "Israeli". Imagine if someone marketed Haunukah as a Christian holiday. Don't tell me it wouldn't bother you. Calling Hummus and Falafel Israeli cusine is biased to begin with.

Well, perhaps you should give a source for this. Wikipedia policy is that you should cite sources for your edits. While this is often ignored, it really is necessary if your edit is controversial. I've certainly heard Arabs complaining the odd time about falafel being described as Israeli food, but is this really a major controversy? After all, many Israelis are of Arab origin, being immigrants from Iraq, Egypt etc as well as native Palestinian Jews, and it's hardly surprising that they should keep their native cuisine. Palmiro | Talk 22:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Then why call it by a different name? Why give credit where it isnt due? and why, WHY is there an Israeli cusine section on wikipedia with a bunch of Palestinian foods, and why is there not a Palestinian cuisine section?

I would like to see a source that Israelis call falafel by a different name. The modern Hebrew word comes from Arabic!

Who's "giving credit"? The Israeli cuisine category includes all food popular enough in Israel to be considered a national food. It does not mean that Israel invented the food. According to the article, falafel may have originated in India -- should it not be listed as Middle Eastern cuisine?

There isn't a Palestinian cuisine category on Wikipedia because no one has written it. Why don't you? I wouldn't be able to write too much about it, as my experience with Palestinian food is just with falafel (delicious) and the beer Taybeh (better than Goldstar!). Since many Palestinian foods with existing articles have entries in Wikipedia -- say, falafel :) -- the category could be quickly populated. If you create the category, I'll do research for a write-up on Taybeh. In fact, if I have free time later, I'll create the category and populate it as best I can. --Mgreenbe 11:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, there is a Category:Palestinian cuisine, though it's not adequately populated! Please look harder before launching these accusations. Other Palestinian foods with articles: Mujaddara, arak (liqueur), shawarma, baklava, knafeh. Palmiro | Talk 18:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't even think to check! Added what wasn't already in there. I'd never heard of knafeh; gotta go to Nablus! --Mgreenbe 23:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Nablus is largeley a destroyed battered city with dilapidated houses and broken spirits. One time they pioneered the delicious kinafa, now their lives are ruined after their land was stolen and their sons were killed. The joyful spirit of Palestinians is dead absorbed into the mist. Their hope is dead they don't want to make kinafa

---

Common guys, Falafel is no more "Israeli" food than Borscht is, both with obvious origins, in now Israel been such a community of immigrants it would be plain silly to claim 'inventing' such food. I think a more interesting fact, is the 'fussion' kitchen in Israel, notably about Falafel, the fact that one can buy Falafel with beetroot is probably such an example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.84.24.136 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

No one claimed Israel invented falafel. It is "regarded there as a national food". It's true, it is regarded here as a national food; I had it for lunch and felt very patriotic. There are even postcards, "Falafel, the Israeli national food". I think the beetroot may be a Persian-Jewish innovation; I think they're also responsible for the beet-pickled eggplants, which are, might I add, incredibly delicious. Care to find out and post cited prose? --Mgreenbe 14:09, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

In Italy pasta is a national food, it came from China. In Ireland potatoes are a national food, that came from South America (in some Jewish households potatoes are almost a national food. Blintzes are a typical Jewish food, but they came from Russia. --Brat32 21:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indian falafel

I was surprised by that the first time I saw it. That was one long-lived piece of vandalism, if so - a bit scary! Palmiro | Talk 02:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lebanese?

thats good that someone mentioned that the falafel brigns together the arabs and the jews.

but no one where does it mention anyhting about Lebanon. Lebanon is the ultimate falafel hub. falafel is typically known as lebanese food. we need some lebanese stuff on it.

yes israel has falafel but we need some arab country information on falafil —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.218.41.202 (talk • contribs) 10:13, 21 January 2006 UTC.

Be bold — while maintaining NPOV, of course. --Mgreenbe 11:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Best falafel in NYC, Bread from Beiruit on 45th St. If I also mentioned that Ess-a-Bagel has the best bagels, would that make it more POV?--129.252.176.46 21:23, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Yep; but I'll check it out next time I'm in the City. There's also Azori (sp.) on the Upper West Side; the Jewish "falafel nazi". Supposed to be good, but don't take my word for it. --Mgreenbe 00:50, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

In NSW Australia the best falafel in Sydney is at Fatima's Lebanese Restaurant, Cleveland St, Surry Hills. While up the coast the best in NSW is Yami Falafel, Park St, Brunswick Heads which is an Israeli vegitarian resturant. Good food is one of the scarce foundations upon which to build peace. Don't let food become another battle ground—Dananimal 03:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French fried potatoes, known as chips?

They're certainly not known by that name in Lebanon. Anywhere else? Palmiro | Talk 14:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Israel. Or, retrograde "chipsim". (Almost as hilarious as schnitzelim.) I think the sentence originally mentioned only Israel; when Lebanon and UAE were added, the user must not have noticed the clause. But regardless, in most of the world french fries are known as chips. I'll take it out. Out of curiousity, what are they called in Lebanon? --Mgreenbe 15:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Batata! or batata maqliyye, if necessary. I think most Lebanese would just call them potatoes in English, though I don't really know. It's very unusual to find potatoes cooked any other way in Syrian or Lebanese restaurants unless they are part of a stew or made dish.

Are you sure people put za3tar on falafel? OK, it's not at the peanut butter-in-hummus level, but I've never heard of it, whereas sumac is always added here in Syria at least. And it's the wrong colour! Palmiro | Talk 15:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Batata? That's Hebrew for sweet potato. Makes some sense: the German/French "apple of the ground" (tapuach adama) took hold for potato, but Ben Yehuda would have stuck with the Arabic.

I've seen it on shawarma, but never falafel; I was only correcting the extant link to sumac. --Mgreenbe 15:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

It looks to me like you changed the reference to sumac into one to za3tar. Did you mean to? As for schnitzelim, I seem to recall you remarking once that you didn't think it would be found in Levantine cuisine. And probably not as such, but we do have iskalúb bané in most restaurants - can you work it out? Palmiro | Talk 15:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. I've never seen sumac used on its own in the Middle East and assumed the usage was a mistranslation (a very common one here in Israel). If you've seen sumac on falafel but not za`atar, we should just change it back. As for iskalup bané, the best I can get out of it is some sort of "scalloped" piece of meat. (I mention schnitzelim because it's a Hebrew plural on a german word; my German friends find it beyond ridiculous.) --Mgreenbe 16:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Anon user is right, in Lebanese use "batata" or "batata maqlyeh", even in menus they may use "french fries" but rarely "chips", because it refers to potato chips. CG 16:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that's the first paragraph of Palmiro's post. --Mgreenbe 16:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

QUESTION ABOUT ETYMOLOGY: Is it common to have a quadrilitiral root in Arabic made up of a doubling of a two letter root? Of course, there is FLFL and ZLZL, but are there many others? It seems to me that in Arabic this is rare whereas in Hebrew it is more frequent. (David ; yishalom@sbcglobal.net)

[edit] Bedouin origin

My uncle works for the US Department of Agriculture and is quite familiar with the history of most foods including falafel. He says it's originally Egyptian. Some guy was wondering how they deep fried back then. To this day and age, some people in the middle east deep fry in large pots without electricity the same way that they wash their clothes. (unsigned post)

Yes, falafel is usually considered Egyptian (though that is hard to prove). And of course there is deep-frying without electricity -- that's not the issue. The issue is that bedouins are nomads. Deep-frying is not a typical cooking technique for nomads. It is more likely that it is a city vendor's snack in origin. Anyway, if it's not {{dubious}}, it is at least {{fact}} because no source is given for this theory. --Macrakis 02:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, up until the late eighties, we still did deep frying in Lebanon the way I described it. Up to this day, there are still plenty of people in the villages who still do so. And considering bedouins to this day still cook this way, and most historians agree that the falafel is quite old, then the fact that it is deep-fried today using an electric stove has no bearing on how it was cooked a long time ago. It could have been deep-fried then the old way, or it could have been baked and evolved over time for efficiency. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.48.69.100 (talk) 03:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Could you please re-read what I said? Electricity has nothing to do with it, and of course there are people in villages who deep-fry. Villagers are not nomads. But what evidence is there that falafel is of Egyptian bedouin origin? A source is needed. --Macrakis 13:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)