Talk:LGBT-welcoming church programs

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[edit] Reason for this article

This article was created as a result of a longstanding impasse at Talk:Welcoming Congregation. That article, for a long time, equivocated in its subject, sometimes talking about the UUA "Welcoming Congregation" program and sometimes talking aboutthe general category of "welcoming churches" that that welcome LGBT info fellowship but that are not neaceearily affiliated with UUA. As of today, these will be separate topics with separate articles. MPS 03:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dropping fuel in the fire

I'm probably going to get burned for this, but is there cause to broaden the scope of this article to encompass non-Christian religious groups? Obviously Jewish or Islamic associations with LGBT-friendly programs would be related, theologically, but there may be others. Maybe this is already well covered in other articles, though... *shrug* -- nae'blis 17:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason not to broaden the scope. And change the title accordingly to something like LGBT-welcoming religious groups. —Angr 17:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah go ahead if you want to. I am sure if the article gets too long we can always fork it back out. I would recommend that it be divided by religion though, to keep all the Christian groups together and all the , say, Islamic groups, together. Come to think of it, this could be a long and confusing article structure if you do all the permutations of (Religion X level-of-officialness). Official Islam. Official Jew. Unofficial Islam. Unofficial Christian. Unofficial illegal Sufi. etc etc etc MPS 21:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what does "official" mean?

I see no distinction between the status of More Light vis-à-vis the PCUSA and that of AWAB vis-à-vis ABCUSA. And some of the other groups listed as "Official" are even less tenuously tolerated by the actual "official" denominational leaderships. (E.g. the Mennonites, or the Reformed.) As a Baptist I see a POV problem here, but it may just be a nomenclatural one. It seems to me that UUA and UCC (and of course MCC) are the only Christian denominations of any size in the USA that are really "official" about welcoming TBLG folks and the congregations that affirm them [possibly I need to add DOC Haruo 09:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)]. But I do appreciate this article as a step up from linking all denominations to a UU-centered article. I was going to do something like this, now I don't have to... --Haruo 09:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'd see a distinction on if:

a) The denomination's website/bylaws/handouts include mention of the GLBT program;

b) The denomination has ever taken a vote/issued an edict with regards to the program (this is trickier when you've got congregational polity);

c) The program's website/bylaws/handouts explicitly state that they are a sanctioned/official program of their denomination.

It's not an exact science, but it might be a start. I agree this is a big step up from simple inclusion on the Welcoming Congregation page, and we were starting to have the "what's official?" discussion there just to trim the list. Here, it's somewhat less important, but might make for a logical organization of the page (official programs first, then tolerated grass-roots, then outlawed grassroots?). -- nae'blis 17:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

As the creator of this article, I just want to say that the section headers I made are somewhat arbitrary based on a schema I made up. If there is a better way to lay out the programs then be bold and do it. This article is young and flexible. MPS 14:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed -- I think sanctioned/tolerated/outlawed is a useful distinction, but I'm not sure all the programs listed are currently in the right section. Definitely move any you see are in the wrong place. --Alynna 00:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links and general scope

Before the external links get too bloated... what exactly is supposed to be there? Currently we seem to be adding any Christian LGBT-affirming group. Is that appropriate? For those already listed earlier in the article, should their websites be in external links as well?

Somewhat relatedly, what is the scope of this article? Is it about associations that a congregation [or similar applicable term] can affiliate with to show support for LGBTQ inclusion? Or is it about any LGBT-welcoming religious group? --Alynna 00:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)