Talk:List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven
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Okay, is Beethoven's op.44 variations on an original theme or on a Dittersdorf opera? I keep hearing different things.
It is a bad idea, in my opinion, to have links to titles like Piano Sonata No. 23 in F minor, Opus 57 (Beethoven) when there is nothing wrong with simply Piano Sonata No. 23 (Beethoven) or even Appassionata Sonata. It is unnecessarily complicated, and I can't think of any benefits over more simple titles, so I'm changing all these links (incidentally, see also Wikipedia:Naming conventions (pieces of music), which is where we should probably discuss this if there's any disagreement. --Camembert
OK, I've changed the links. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'm convinced it's better than linking to elaborate titles with keys and opus numbers always included - much better to go with a title that people can link to without having to look it up (if you see what I mean). In some cases, I think it's pretty academic what title we link to, because the chances of somebody in the forseeable future writing about the song "Der Mann von Wort", op. 99, for instance, is tiny; but for symphonies, sonatas, quartets and other large and well-known works, I do think it's quite important to make things as linkable and as simple as possible. So that (I hope) is what I've done. --Camembert
- I find it confusing to find titles such as Fidelio, Egmont, and Diabelli Variations mixed in with titles such as Piano Sonata No. 8 (Beethoven) and Symphony No. 3 (Beethoven). All works by Beethoven (I think) should be named under the same naming convention. What I was trying to do was create one naming system that would apply to all Beethoven's works. I think we should be true to the names under which they were published or under which they were given by Beethoven. Kingturtle 19:33, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay in replying - only just noticed this (must've missed it on my watchlist somehow). You say "I think we should be true to the names under which they were published or under which they were given by Beethoven". I'm looking at the title page of a score of his third symphony (Eulenberg edition, miniature score) and it says "Beethoven - Op. 55 - Symphonie No. 3 - Eb major - (Eroica)." I think we can agree that that wouldn't make a good article title. Similarly, I have a score of the fourth symphony which just says on the title page "Ludwig van Beethoven - Symphonie". This also isn't a good title.
There are probably dozens of reasonable titles one could give these pieces, but there's no need to make them more complex than is necessary (that's why we don't include the "(Beethoven)" unless its necessary - that's standard Wikipedia practice. We don't include "(movie)" after every movie either, unless there's something else with the same name). But as I say, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (pieces of music) is probably the place to discuss this if you want to continue. --Camembert
I recently heard | Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage at the Baltimore Symphony. Is anybody familiar with this piece? I've googled it, and it comes up as different things. Does it belong on this list? Taco325i 14:10 9 Aug 2005.
- Yes. The one by Beethoven is not done as often as the overture by Mendelssohn. Beethoven's version is for four voices and orchestra, Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt, opus 112, written 1814-1815, first performed Christmas Day 1815. It wasn't published until 1822 which is why it got such a late opus number. It's based on the poem by Goethe (and was dedicated to him). Hope this helps! Antandrus (talk) 18:21, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Do all of Beethoven's symphonies have nicknames? 70.152.141.226 00:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
- The only Beethoven symphonies with widely used nicknames in English are those given in the article: "Eroica" for the third, "Pastoral" for the sixth and "Choral" for the ninth. --Camembert
Contents |
[edit] Dates
I added the clarification that the dates listed in parentheses are publication dates, which I assumed because I know that the first six string quartets were not written in the same year. I hope this is correct. --Robert Turner 21:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sonata in E flat
I'm doing a presentation on some of Beethoven's works. Can anyone tell me anything about Sonata No. 33 in E flat? Especially the first movement. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
- He only wrote 32 complete sonatas. --Hesperides
- This is not the case, if one counts youthful works which are sometimes still played (the Electoral Sonatas). Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
- E flat is the key of the first of them (the Electoral or Kurfürsten Sonatas, WoO.47/1-3, written around 1783)- the movements are: 1. Allegro cantabile, 2. Andante, 3. Rondo vivace. ([1] for sound samples and a midi, from the first I think, at [2]) - and this may well be what was referred to. Some sources on the sonatas in general (on the web) include this - [3]. Schissel | Sound the Note! 16:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Folksong Arrangements
Added to the lists some of Mr. B's folksong arrangements. --Hesperides
[edit] 10th Symphony
Should this be mentioned next the actual symphonies, or somewhere at the end, or not at all? It seems quite out of place to mention a piece written by someone else on a page called "List of Works by Beethoven". Tiki2099 16:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Piano Trio in F minor
I've run across mention of an unfinished work, "Piano Trio in F minor" and looked here to see if it was included in the listing of Beethoven's works ... I don't see it or I'm not recognizing it as listed. If it would be appropriate to list this work, could someone knowledgable in the area add it? Included below are a couple of links with information related to this work. Regards, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 16:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
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- "First movement of unfinished Beethoven trio reconstructed by scholar". From the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign News Bureau; 3/23/06.
- "Beethoven's Unfinished Piano Trio in F Minor from 1816". Journal of Musicological Research, 25(1):1-42, 2006.
[edit] Sharps and flats
I'm planning to replace all the sharp and flat words with ♯ and ♭- can everyone read these symbols, and are they the best ones to use? Stephen B Streater 08:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think that's a bad idea. I don't think I've ever seen it done that way, and isn't as readily clear. --Milton 05:34, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Piano Sonata
Were not his first 16 Piano Sonatas really written for the harpsichord, and should not they be labled as such?
- I don't think they were. Beethoven was a pretty popular pianist in his day, and the piano-forte was invented almost 100 years before Beethoven got started. --Milton 05:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Violin/Cello Sonatas"
I know that in colloquial speech those sonatas usually are called like that, but the original titles are "Sonaten fũr Klavier und Violine/Violoncello" and not "Violin-/Violoncellosonaten", not even "Sonaten fũr Violine/Violoncello und Kalvier". Shouldn't that be translated accordingly? Not only for reasons of grammatical correctness - the original title gives a better impression of the roles of the instruments: the violin/cello are by no means solo instruments in this sonatas and the piano is not merely accompanying. All pieces are true DUOS (and not 'duets', which probably also should be changed) with both instruments being treated equally. I will not make these changes myself because I am not a native English speaker and do not want to mess with your language but all modern Urtext editions (and the German Wikipedia) list the sonatas in this way...
[edit] Piano Sonata Bar
Should this bar (below) be included on this page? Someone added it to the end of the piano sonatas section, and it seems that it miight be redundant, or that it should at least have an explanation. Asmeurer 02:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] What? No catalogue numbering system?
Aside from "Opus" and "WoO", why doesn't Beethoven have a *comprehensive* catalogue code, like Bach (BWV), Mozart (KV), and even Vivaldi (RV) ? Seems strange no musicologist has created one. I mean, it's Beethoven. Or is there some other reason? Just wondrin'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.62.212.69 (talk) 02:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC).
- According to Opus number, Beethoven added opus numbers himself, therefore eliminating the need for other systems. Asmeurer (talk • contribs) 04:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
