User talk:Palestine48

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Contents 1 Welcome 2 Slightly more personal welcome 3 Thanks 4 Welcome too 5 internal links 6 the [Jews] are excluded from conducting services there... 7 Palestinians dead 8 Hello 9 Palestinian dead 10 Dhabiha Halal 11 Please vote 12 since you display the picture 13 I've put an extremely POV article on AFD 14 Third holiest site in Islam AfD debate 15 Allegations of Israeli apartheid 16 Salam 17 Nurit Peled-Elhanan 18 Is it voting? 19 You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner 20 Note from Muhammad mediation 21 Arafat 22 Talk:Muhammad/Mediation 23 Thanks 24 Palestine-bio-stub 25 WikiProject Palestine

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Palestine48, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  IZAK 10:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slightly more personal welcome

Hi, welcome to Wikipedia. Nice to see that we have someone also who doesn't focus on controversial things so much. I've seen many of your edits, and they are generally very good. Welcome, I hope you'll stay here! --Daniel575 | (talk) 13:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Good cooperation on Orient House resulted in sensible compromises by both sides and factual descriptions in the article. Thanks! --Gabi S. 10:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome too

Though I want some credit on the user page which you borrowed from me somewhat, right ? :) Also btw on the Orient House my uploaded picture ;) . Btw, you haven't answered my question - is the arabic name for settlements include jaffa, haifa and so on ? Becuase if it does, it's not in the correct article which deals only with green line. Amoruso 15:09, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Amoruso. Thanks for the Orient House picture it enhanced the level of the article. Cheers for the user page stuff, it kick started me in the right direction (i no longer need it :P ). As to the answer to your question, the arabic name for settlements DOSE NOT include jaffa, haifa. The word Mustamaraat or Mustawtanaat deals only with green line. Palestine4816:14, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I see you changed the userpage, it's very nice. I see you also borrowed the "return" phrase :) nice twist. Thanks for the reply. If you come to Palestine/Israel again, maybe one day we can meet in peace. Cheers. Amoruso 16:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] internal links

You don't have to add a _ between words for internal links; a simple link with double [ and double ] will automatically end up right, with the spaces in it. (Concerning this edit) I agree that more pics might be nice, but on the other hand, Wikipedia isn't a photo gallery. We could add hundreds of pics... I would want to, but I doubt whether others agree. --Daniel575 | (talk) 12:59, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, too many pictures will spoil the article, I am just suggesting a wider selection of photos to widen the readers impression of the city. A limit to the number and quality of pictures should be set, inline with each subsection . Palestine48 15:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the [Jews] are excluded from conducting services there...

dear Palestine48,

you wrote "What about Western Wall and underground Synagogues (all part of al-Haram al-Sharif or Temple Mount)??)[1]" the Jews at the Western Wall pray in the large plaza (formerly mugrabi neighborhood) adjacent to the Haram; they in no way penetrate the area of the Haram. there are even those amongst the more strictly Orthodox that take care not to put their fingers between the stones of the Wall so they wouldn't enter the Haram even sightly.

and which "underground Synagogues" do you refer to? if you mean the Western Wall Tunnel, i know that it doesn't penetrate the Western Wall by even the slightest - i dug there, participating in the archeological excavations, and I'm generally very familiar with the area.

hope to read your reply,

Shilonite 14:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Shilonite, I think i was out of focus in regards to the underground tunnel [2]. My point is that you used the word "excluded". Is this true or not in terms of Israeli police/IDF? and can you provide a source? Is this true or not in terms of the Waqf? and can you provide a source? Also,those who are exluded why are they exluded?. I think the information can be better prsented in the Modern significance subsection.

Palestine48 15:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Palestinians dead

For some time now I am suggesting a site with all the names of killed palestinians since the stat of the intifada, do you have any soruces?

i suggest you browse through http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/Palestinian_intifada_fact_sheet.htm but what i found very informing is this site: http://www.pnic.gov.ps/arabic/shohada/shohada.html (if you don't read arabic i can help out).

Palestine48 03:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

r u administrator, do we have sites here, do you have in your land? Administrators? Ok, but that site should be on wiki. Can you find out, some people in israel told me, then lebanon israeli conflict, there are more than 119 dead israeli soldiers, can you find out how many for real died, especially from wounds later on?>

No I am not an administrator, if i understood you correctly i agree that an artice to the subject discussed above must be included in Wikipedia. As for the Israeli Soldiers killed i can get the number but what are your plans ? are you registered at Wiki and how can i help you more."إذا عندك أي مشكلة في فهم الإنجليزية يمكنك المشاركة بلعربية على هذه الصفحة."

Palestine48 01:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Sorry for the late response, but I just wanted to say hi and welcome to WP. As you probably noticed, a lot of articles could use a lot of help, so I'm glad to see you on board. While I'm unable to be as active as I used to be (for the time being), I look forward to working and collaborating with you. هل زرت فلسطين مؤخراً؟؟ Ramallite ^(talk) 14:17, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks mate, i was planning to start a list of palestinian dead from 1948-present and to expand the Westbank cities articles amongst other things. .لا، و لكن أخطت لزيارة في صيف 2007

Palestine48 16:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Palestinian dead

I just read article over 800 kids were killed by israelis... I like the truth, israel is not tellig much... and I need exact dead of israeli soldiers in lebanon, is it really 119, what about dead from wounds? I am a historian and somebody who likes to see truth told, I am neutral in this conflict but... after Arafat died your people are truly suffering, israel and usa said, it will be better, he was obstacle to peace, that is not so now, so where do you leave? You can call me George. Yea, do we have any websites on dead palestinians? I am otherwise historian. Let me know soon. We need to fight for truth and justice especially on wiki. I have found many incorrect things on Arafat and much more which I corrected and so far it seems to be ok.

Thank you for your intrest George, as for Israeli soldiers killed, the number i have is 119 (from IDF) and 130 (from Hizbulah sources). the websites i have on dead palestinian i listed above. Thanks for your kind words of support. Just out of intrest, where are you from George. I am British and I live in the UK.

Palestine48 22:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, i do not reply often, I am a historian, so anything of this sorts interests me, i have many friends in israel, but even they do not agree with this garbage what's sharon-omert doing, they are criminals, i wonder why nobody does anything against them. And yea, so far I have not seen anything about palestinian casualties, do you have any? Hows life in england, many immigrants, harder to find job?

[edit] Dhabiha Halal

Hello, I've found alot of the edits you've made to the dhabiha halal page to be non-neutral POV. Thus I am tagging the page.Starwarp2k2 21:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't see why you would do so, can you give me a reason to why you tagged it?

Palestine48 22:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll be glad to clarify

• Also the Dhabiĥa of Christians of the present age are lacking in Islamic methods and contradict Muslim belief, thus making their Dhabiĥa Haraam

That is a statement of opinion and of your interpretation. There are many people who can and DO beleive otherwise.

• As for the Jews, they too lack certain in Islamic methods and leave out the Takbeer (saying: God is Great) and change the method of Dhabiĥa, thus, even their slaughter is considered Haraam.

Who considers it haraam? You? Everyone? I know many people consider it halal, rendering your statement not only POV, but also incorrect.

Starwarp2k2 17:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

You have a valid point to some extent, the Jammah (Majority) Opinion state that if no Halal meat is available then, you can eat meat and poultry slaughtered by People of The Book (except for unclean animals).

What I am trying to say is that it is Haraam to consume meat slaughtered by present day people of the book (unless they are religious i.e. practising believers and they declare the name of God before slaughter of each animal).

As for People of the Book working in Islamic slaughterhouses, if they are practising Jews and Christians and they fellow the Islamic method of slaughter then there is no harm in that.

Palestine48 12:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I know exactly what you are trying to say, but what you are trying to say is your opinion, not undisputable fact.Starwarp2k2 07:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you on one point and agree with you on another. It is true that my contribution to the article is not a clear undisputed fact but at the same time it is not just my opinion, a considerable number of Muslims believe in what I stated in my previous posts. I suggest that both schools of thought should be clearly represented.

Palestine48 09:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I hold no hard feelings against you or your edits, and I hope that is mutual.Starwarp2k2 20:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please vote

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/16. It seems that some people want to remove any reference to Palestine. --Hossein.ir 12:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I put a comment in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam:The Muslim Guild too. Is there any wikiproject about Palestine.--Sa.vakilian 18:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Sa.vaklilian please spread the word. BTW, I edited some Islam related articles and i hope to join the guild soon to help out more ishallah.--Palestine48 00:59, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] since you display the picture

Since you have a photo of members of a small group called Neturei Karta with the caption "There is hope", you should know that they are being paid by the PA. It's well-known. [3] For some reason, the leadership feels it more necessary to use their billions and billions and billions to finance people like this or Arafat's widow in her Paris mansion rather than the Palestinian people. Furthermore, Neturei does support the idea of all Jews returning to Israel, but AFTER the Messiah comes. You should just know what their motives are as it is not that they think the Palestinians are a poor people who need help, but rather a tool for the dismantling of the State of Israel that their interpretations believe to be a violation of religious tradition. --Shamir1 22:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Shamir1, Well I don't only support Neturei Karta, there are a number of Satmar leaders who are against Zionism and the degradation of the Palestinian people. I am not against the Jewish People but I see no hope in the current State of Israel. Also, I have many points on Arafat’s internal dealings but I admire him greatly for his non bolstering position on three crucial issues:

• Position on Jerusalem.
• Right of Return to Refuges.
• 1967 borders, State of Palestine.

The dismantling of the State of Israel doesn’t correspond to the dismantling of the Jewish People. As it stands now there are two real options:

• A secular State for all (Muslim, Christian and Jew)
• Two states Palestine & Israel (Both Safe and Contiguous).

Occupation and Military law only breeds hate. I remember the stories that my father told us about his Jewish teacher and how our family used to invite his family around to visit all the time, and a close family friend used to tell us how his father protected Jewish families from the Arab rioters in Hebron. --Palestine48 00:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You hardly mentioned any of my facts. Secondly, all of Jerusalem is a vital part of Israel. Do you want to explain to my while the whole region was a province of the Muslim Empire they had not even been a thought of having Jerusalem serve as a capital? Or the various periods of religious neglect of Jerusalem until the Christians began competiting with them for it? Under Arab Muslim Jordanian rule:

• All Jews out of their Jerusalem or killed.
• no Jew, Christian, or Israeli Muslim to enter Jerusalem, the West Bank, or any of its holy sites
• Desecration of ancient synagogues, vandalism and looting of the Jewish Quarter, animal pens, toilets, and trash on holy sites
• All sites under Jordanian Muslim control

Under Israeli rule:

• Each religious group is awarded the administration of their holy sites. The Temple Mount, despite its older and more explicit significance in the Jewish (and thus, Christian) tradition, is under full administration of a Muslim Council, even though Jerusalem's significance in Islam is questioned.
• The Muslim Council has done nothing to stop unauthorized excavations of the Mount in a vicious attempt to rid the site of its Jewish roots.
• Holy sites are safeguarded

Arafat was a thief, liar, terrorist, and awful man to (forget Israel) the Palestinians. Why arent there any Palestinians demanding their billions and billions of cash under Suha's lazy @$$?! Israel provided funds and refuge for their people, unfortunately, the Arab states did nothing for theirs.

As for "Occupation and Military law" only breeds hate. No, sorry. There was hate and terrorism against Israel long before "occupation," now its just used as an excuse. Dont blame Israel, blame the ones who started the war: Egypt, Syria, Jordan,... What breeds hate is not this 'occupation'. The Arab League passed a resolution: "Continued war with Israel...1. No peace with Israel, 2. No recognition of Israel, 3. No negotiation of Israel. The military administration was done because the people of the territories had allies completely and utterly sworn to the destruction of Israel. The Jews have been oppressed, stolen from, discriminated against, forced to live in restricted areas, more taxes imposed, confiscation of property, mass murder, genocide, expulsions, forced conversions not just in the last century, IN EVERY SINGLE CENTURY IN HISTORY. In your theory, yes it would breed hate, but it didnt. They never desecrated churches or mosques, they never blew themselves up in a restaurant, and they didnt form terrorist organizations to "resist occupation".

I am worried about the Palestinians breeding hate to their children, where is the hope in that? The schoolbooks, the media, the intimidation of journalists, lack of free speech, the killing of those on suspicion of collaborating with Israel, come on. At least in Israel leftists are free to exist and promote their ideas against Israel's policy just like any other democratic society. I was in Jerusalem and a woman would not sell to me, not because I was an American like I thought, but for fear that she would be caught doing business with a possible Jew. I would have mentioned my Arabian ancestry, but i let it go.

Up until last year, I did not understand the Palestinian viewpoint at all. I do now, I dont necessarily support it, but I see it. I support the creation of a state with peace with Israel. I support the idea of a Palestinian embassy in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, and an Israeli embassy in Ramallah, Nablus, or Gaza. I support the ideas of Ismail Khaldi, Nonie Darwish, and Wafa Sultan. I find the idea of the right of return nice, but not practical, not just in this situation but for every conflict in history. If the whole world was based on a right of return, we would be a BIIGGG mess. I am not trying to diminish the idea, but the Palestinian right of return is not so special against others throughout thousands of years of history.

I support a reasonable, secure peace. --Shamir1 21:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

---

Please don’t pretend that what are stating in regards to Jerusalem Al-Quds is undisputed fact, it is merely a Zionist position adopted to get the oppressed Jews in Europe by European Christians. Those Jews sought refuge from European oppression in many kingdoms through out the Islamic world.Original post by:Palestine48

I dont get that...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

It must be said that my late night writings are not my best but I hope you get it now.

I write again: Please don’t pretend that what you are saying in regards to Jerusalem Al-Quds is undisputed fact, it is merely a Zionist position adopted to gain the support of the oppressed Jews in Europe. Those Jews sought refuge from European oppression in many kingdoms through out the Islamic world. Historically Muslims treated Jews a 1000 times better than Christians ever did. The 60 years of guilt from the Holocaust gives Israel the free hand in both Europe and America, despite any vacuous anti-Israeli quotes you might dig up by the Europeans. The Zionist will always hold the holocaust card up forever and ever but they are quick to lecture people about forgiveness and peace and other such sound bites. Reply by:Palestine48

As for “Arab Muslim Jordanian Rule” It was never a Muslim rule and it was partly Arab, as you well know Jordanian rule was secular. As for “Arab Rule” the occupation of the West Bank was approved by the British at the time and many High ranking British officers were still serving in the Jordanian army until the late 50’s. In the Jordanian period the West Bank was regarded as a frontier and military Rule was the norm. So, I don’t look at it as an example of typical “Arab Muslim” rule.Original post by:Palestine48

As for Israeli “Rule”:

• The Muslim Council fought hard to maintain it control over the Muslim Holy sites as for “… even though Jerusalem's significance in Islam is questioned.” I feel you need a lesson in Islamic Tradition. Just because a place is holy dose not mean it has to be the capital of the region (which Al Quds many Years even under the British) an example is Al-Medina in what is called Saudi Arabia, Al-Medina was the capital of the Islamic State at the Time of prophet Mohammed and after his death for some time, but as we all know Mekkah is the holiest city in Islam. For all we Zionist could have called Uganda the home of the Jewish nation.Original post by:Palestine48

No actually, Jerusalem is referred to over 800 times in the Hebrew Bible, and not even once in the Qur'an. And see, Mecca became the capital. What did Ramleh have to do with Islam? That was the capital they chose. Jerusalem had been important to Israel from the start.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

• As for Jerusalem’s Jewish significance, I doubt the majority of Israelis (who are secular) care who controls Jerusalem from a religious point of view if remember correctly Theodor Herzl Said "the city is not worthy being the back of my shoe". It is well documented in Muslim history that when Caliph Omar entered the newly liberated Jerusalem he granted the city’s inhabitants (Christian and Jew) their religious right as set in the Omari Covenant.Original post by:Palestine48

Yeah, he allowed them in because he knew the city was important to them. And it wasnt exactly the nicest invitation. they taxed them heavily and placed other restrictions. The al-aqsa mosque was built a century after the qur'an was received, giving a name to the reference in the quran from years before. As for Herzl, he was completely secular, and so was his philosophy. he wasnt religious at all. he didnt have his son circumcised (after his death though, his son had it done). but, i have never seen that quote ANYWHERE and I just searched it. it sounds like something that would have been made up later. either way, denying jerusalem in the jewish tradition is bogas, but i know thats not what u were inferring (i think). And yes, Israelis (even the secular) absolutely care about Jerusalem, but I find it quite funny that Arafat's decision to sign al-quds as the capital was coveniently done after the u.s.a.'s decision to relocate their embassy. Either way, in Israel, Muslims can go into their holy sites, and Jews and Christians are barred from their own Temple Mount.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

• As for the safety of holy sites under Israeli occupation in the West Bank including Jerusalem Al Quds, I think that you are delusional. A recent case of the digging up of Muslim graves in West Jerusalem proves my point. The Graves were desecrated and hijacked by the Museum of Tolerance of all people. No Muslim agreed to this or participated in the decision making process e.g. when they built a car park near it. Israel regards the Arabs existence in Israel as a privilege not a right.Original post by:Palestine48

You're right about the last part. They are a self-proclaimed Jewish state but for some reason there are plenty of people willing to jump the border for Israeli citizenship. They ment to cater to Jews but for many Arabs life in "oppressive" Israel is worth it. they can vote and they have representing political parties. Its not just Arabs, there a plenty of filipinos and non-Jewish russians. So, if they wish to live in a tiny Jewish state, so be it.

Yes, that was a bad act I was against it, but i dont know where my delusion comes in. yes its a cemetery, but its not a historical holy site. There are plenty of cemeteries that no longer exist, and this one was done for the sake of real estate, not out of hate for muslims. The excavations on the temple mount has a much more different intent.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

Yet again you never cease to amaze me when you wrote: the West Jerusalem Muslim cemetery was not a “historical holy site”. You really need some books about Islam and Palestine mate! That particular cemetery is at least a thousand years old and non-Muslims entering the cemetery for anything other than visiting craves is regarded as a desecration. Muslim cemeteries are sacred and the sites are only built over after a set period of inactivity usually 80-100 years (for normal cemeteries), even then, the cemetery has to be purged and cleansed in order to build over it. None of which was considered by the Israelis. But I don’t expect you or the Simon Wiesenthal Centre to know anything about that.

As for your racist remarks regarding people jumping the fence to get Israeli citizenship. Well, for your information the Israeli government forced Israeli citizenship on Palestinians living within the “state” after the 1948 war. People only jump the fence to see their wife, relatives or destroyed villages and even work, all of which is their right not privilege. I think Ramallite drove a more accurate point than me.

Peace, love and happiness!Reply by:Palestine48

Occupation always breeds hate; just because the Palestinian had a period of relative calm in the West Bank dose not mean they loved Israeli Military Rule over them.Original post by:Palestine48

maybe you think so, but 59% of palestinians want hamas and islamic jihad to war with israel even if a palestinian state is established. so is that occupation driving them to that? where does "safe and contigous" come in?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

As for the Arab League and Suha Arafat both their support towards the Palestinian People is limited and not practicalOriginal post by:Palestine48

Absolutely, the arab league could have easily provided funds or attempt to relieve the crisis, but they didnt. meanwhile what does that witch in her paris mansion do to deserve your money? you have fellow arabs and others making donations to fund you guys (no doubt you need it), and instead its funding her chandeliers and curtains. whens the last time she even visited "her people"?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

You wrote: “at least in Israel leftists are free to exist and promote their ideas against Israel's policy just like any other democratic society” well, historically Palestinian Politics are Leftist or Socialist and as Hamas showed the world, Islamists are free to hold offices in government despite leftist disagreeing with them and despite random violence aggravated by the siege enforced by the US and Israel.

Even the most liberal and sympathetic EU cut off aid to the palestinians and consider hamas a terrorist organization. yes, hamas has showed that but the world does not like the idea of islamists "free to hold offices." secondly, that doesnt respond to my remark. also, a survey found that most palestinians see a gov't based on shari'a not such a bad idea, which doesnt sound too leftist.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shamir1 (talk • contribs).

As for the right of return I regard it as an essential pilar to the Palestinian national identity which encompasses more than 5.5 million people living in exile, more than 2.5 million living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and more than 1.2 million living within Israel since 1948. As a person of Palestinian origins I support the right of return and compensation to all Palestinian refugees. In the majority of cases repatriation is practical and in some it is very difficult. The Palestinian right of return is important and can not be compared with other tragedies such as the one between Indian and Pakistan because each conflict has its own unique characteristics. Original post by:Palestine48

Listen, its sounds great, but its not practical. Even those peace organizations between the two groups do not acknowledge a palestinian right of return into israel's proper territory. If the world went by your rules, the Jews may be rewarded a pretty generous percentage of the world's property, and all of Europe and the Middle East would be in major debt. I don't think that's what you really want. --Shamir1 07:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Shamir1, I don’t have a magic formula to resolve the problems between the Israelis and Palestinians but I wish through dialogue we can reach a solution.

I too support a reasonable, secure peace. --Palestine48 23:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

---

I'm really disappointed to see that Shamir1 has really no concept of the reality in Palestine, all of his thoughts and accusations above are almost verbatim tirades from the most hateful anti-Palestinian literature around, and almost all are either completely false or purposely exaggerated. I wouldn't argue with you Shamir1 because I can't argue about something I know about and you don't (and you don't, okay?) Unless you are willing to go yourself and see for yourself (without making excuses not to), it is really of no use (or consequence) discussing this with you because again, it's like me arguing with you about the contents of your kitchen cabinet - you would know but I would not. Same for Palestine, you just don't know, especially as you think you know, which is the biggest piece of evidence that you don't. :) Ramallite ^(talk) 02:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Ramallite, the only hateful literature Ive seen are Palestinian schoolbooks. As for your "false, and exaggerated" stuff. Ive read both sides. You want to know what I hear from pro-pal sites? No mentioned that the arabs rejected the partition plan, no mention that the arabs nations attacks in 1948 (some just say it "happened"), no mention that the majority of the dead in jenin had been militants, no mention that they had initially lied about the numbers,... it goes on. If you dont believe me, reporters without borders and freedom house gave israel the best ranking in the middle east. As for "going for myself and seeing for myself", what makes you think I havent? or that i won't again? ive met israelis, palestinians, israeli arabs, filipinos in israel,... I didnt make any excuses, during the peak of the intifada i went into both west and east Jerusalem despite protests. And if you think I am exaggerating, the graves of hundrends of palestinians during this last intifada (at least 118 reported) who were killed by fellow palestinians should speak for themselves. Are any of these Israeli leftists being killed?

I find that Palestinians dont care about their own freedom as much as they care about israel suffering. "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism." -Zahir Muhsein, PLO leader

Not my words, but something you two should keep in mind. --Shamir1 07:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Peace. --Shamir1 07:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, as soon as you possibly can, I'd like you to forward me text from the schoolbooks - in Arabic please, and not from sites like PMWatch that actually uses Saudi books and tells the world that they are Palestinian. Please do me a favor and send me the original Palestinian literature, the schoolbooks, you've seen. If I can do one thing to you, it would be to show you that you are wrong about the schoolbooks. (And you are assuming that Palestinians have to be taught in schools to hate Israelis, when it's actually on the way to and from school when the army forces hatred on them with their practices). The "Pro-Pal" sites are not going to talk about things of the past because most of us were not alive then. You continue to lump all the Arabs together in one basket, and blame me (a Palestinian) for something an Iraqi or a Jordanian Hashemite did, recently or 60 years ago!!

You have every right to think whatever you want, but you have not convinced me one bit that you have actually 'read' the Palestinian POV, or that you are actually interested in anything positive coming out of Palestine. You only seem to look for the negative, and even then you look at the wrong places like StandWithUs or other such garbage. You can't even get yourself to SAY Palestine, as I've noticed you've changed a lot of "Palestine"s into "Palestinian territories" or the like (and I don't want to hear your excuses why, including diplomatic excuses). I don't know if you read Arabic, but if you do, why don't you spend a few days on real Palestinian widely read publications, such as Al-Quds or Al-Ayyam (which has published two op/eds by a Hamas spokesman calling the Palestinian propensity for violence a 'disease' and lamenting the way the Palestinians have acted recently, among tons of other daily similar opinions - not that anybody has any love for the occupation though, would you?). You won't find those in garbage sites like PMWatch, which is actually a pretty deceitful (not to mention racist) site.

You mention you've met Palestinians is Israel - have you met Palestinians in Palestine I wonder? Have you gone to the other side of the wall and lived as a Palestinian for any amount of time? If not, I stand by what I said: you just don't know. Listening to people like Wafa Sultan (whose outspokenness I actually admire too, even though I think she's very misinformed about a few things but at least she's not an outright liar like Brigitte Gabriel), won't give you much of a clue. I've never heard of Zahir Muhsein. I'm not disputing he exists, I'm just saying that if what he said above is contextually true, (I'm sure he said the words, but what was the context), he nevertheless remains too irrelevant to make any impact. What year was that anyway? Was it recent? Couldn't be because I would have known who he is. So no, I don't keep words of people who have no impact on my life in mind. In other words, this person is not a Palestinian living under occupation right now - my generation - so I have absolutely no reason to take his words over the daily humiliation and bombardment of the Israeli army. Somehow, the latter makes a more realistic impression. It's funny, you really think teenage Israeli soldiers have the right to kick and harass Palestinian school children, slap their parents, bust into their homes at night, and shoot at them randomly, and you think waving a statement by an unknown named Zahir Muhsein would make Palestinians say "Oh, okay then, sorry for resisting you, please please, do continue to kick me in the balls, and don't forget my gut while you're at it. I apologize for not being familiar with Muhsein's statement, I should have known better" ????

Lastly, yes in revolutions collaborators meet nasty fates. As Sari Nusseibeh (now THAT'S somebody you should be listening to, not PMWatch) once said in the late 80s: "It's unfortunate, but it happens in any freedom revolution in history. It may not be the right thing to do, but it is the normal thing to do". Israeli leftists are attacked constantly, for example google "Bilin protests". And are any Israeli 'leftists' being killed? Well certainly not as many as Palestinians (but you cannot compare the mentality of a people with a state of their own and a rule of law, with people with no state of their own), but I can think of at least one Israeli: His name was Yitzhak Rabin. Ramallite ^(talk) 14:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I've put an extremely POV article on AFD

The article Policide gives is very POV on the Arab-Israeli conflict. Please let know your opinion! Count Iblis 13:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Count, the article mentioned above surprised me because the term policide or polycide is closely related to engineering not politics and it can be confused by the term:Policied (from policy). I think accepting this term will cause confusion. I suggest you maintain the article but replace the term with civicide which would be a more appropriate and established term. i define civicide below:

• " civicide : The willful and intention destruction of a great city, including murder and exile of its inhabitants. Policide, the willful and intentional destruction of a nation, can be used as a synonym — polis is the Greek word for "city."

Rome's destruction of Carthage is an ancient example of civicide; Washington's abandonment of flood- and hurricane-ravaged New Orleans is apparently a modern one. see the Urban Dictionary

-- Palestine48 10:51, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Third holiest site in Islam AfD debate

I've nominated this article for deletion Third_holiest_site_in_Islam, and would appreciate your comments on the matter.--Amerique 04:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

My reply was as follow:

• This is extraordinary; again the same gang of Pro-Israelis is misusing wikipedia for their own agenda. The article in question is very dubious and serves no good faith purpose other than doubting Al Quds-Jerusalem’s place in Islam. It is widely accepted between Muslims (Sunni and Shi’a) that Al Quds is the 3rd Holiest city of Islam even the vast majority of Shi’a state this loud and clear and they regard the Mosque of Ali (AS) as the 4th holiest mosque/city. Now, a few point towards the facts:

• It is the Place where Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) ascended into the Heavens ("Israa and Miraaj).
• In the Holy Qur’an, in the first verse of Chapter 17 entitled 'The Children of Israel / Bani Israel. '

"Glory to Allah, Who did take His servant for a journey by night, from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless - in order that We might show him some of Our signs. For He is the One who hears and knows all things." (17:1) Qur’an

• Jerusalem was the first "Qibla" for ALL Muslims.

• Prophet Mohammed said: “"There are only three mosques to which you should embark on a journey: the sacred mosque (Mekkah), this mosque of mine (Madinah), and the mosque of Al-Aqsa (Al-Quds)”.

• Since Muslims believe in Prophets Moses, David, Solomon and Jesus, then they also recognise the sacredness and importance of Jerusalem in Islam.

• The site of the Haram al Shareef (temple Mount) was a garbage dump, a dunghill for the people of Jerusalem. But Caliph Omar, upon learning this was the site of the Masjid of Al Quds-Jerusalem cleaned the place with his own hands and put his forehead in payer on that ground.

• Muslims rule of this city was longest out of the three faiths (Islam, Christianity and Judaism), this proves that Muslims regarded the city with respect and sanctity.

• Many Muslim scholars also migrated and settled in the city.

• Add to that the Google search experiment it becomes clear that the only SANE option here is to delete this article.

As for the other supposedly third holiest sites, they can be mentioned (if referenced thoroughly) as part of Jerusalem’s religious significance or as a foot note in Al-Quds article since the other sites significance represent a largely non Muslim misconception. The points I listed above distinguish Jerusalem from the other suggested sites. Palestine48 06:40, 25 October 2006

Please help resolving the disputes at Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock articles. You may have a look at the discussion page to have an idea on what has been going on recently. Thanks! Almaqdisi 06:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, inshllah i will give it my best. Palestine48 07:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allegations of Israeli apartheid

Hello, please keep an eye on this talk as User:SlimVirgin is attempting to skew the article. Thanks Arniep 14:09, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, i will keep an eye on it, however, I will be busy for most of November. Palestine48 19:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salam

Welcome to Wikipedia. Nice edits you did. Cheers. --Thameen 10:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam. Thank you, i try my best to keep things even in wikipedia and represent Palestine in a fair way, I hope to see you around. --Palestine48 19:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam, would you mind entering an email address in your preferences so I can contact you? BhaiSaab ^talk 05:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Salam, I've added a gmail e-mail which i can be contacted on by wikipedians (take a look at my user page) --Palestine48 08:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nurit Peled-Elhanan

Hello! I would appreciate your feedback and help on the above article. Thank you. Tidaress 08:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello there, I've read the article, it is very interesting. I will try to find more information about this woman, I would even consider a page about notable Israelis criticising the state of Israel in detail. --Palestine48 08:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is it voting?

Look at this: [4]. Is it it a force deployment or voting? Please give your opinion about this. --Hossein.ir 20:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention I gave an opinion to delete I hope we agree on this one. --Palestine48 14:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

Dev920(Mind voting here?) 15:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note from Muhammad mediation

Hi there, I am just dropping you a note because you signed up to participate at Talk:Muhammad/Mediation. We have not heard from you since we started, so I'm just asking whether you plan to participate further. If so, we need you to agree or disagree to the criteria for including images we have developed. Important note: The criteria will be used only if the group decides to include images, which will be later in the mediation. Agreeing to the criteria does not mean that you agree to including any images. Thanks! --Aguerriero (talk) 23:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for informing me. It did slip my mind for a moment but i will add my thoughts in the next day or two. I have read what was written so far and i wish to contribute to the mediation. --Palestine48 05:13, 18 November 2006

[edit] Arafat

It is a shame that wiki can never be truly a correct place for information. Y Arafat, some people, including me, tried to put the link which explains his death and death certificate, that he was possibly born in Jerusalem, certain anti palestinian people are reverting that, something needs to be done about that...

[edit] Talk:Muhammad/Mediation

Just to notify that mediation has renewed at the Muhammad article, after a delay due to Ars Scriptor's leaving, in case you still wanted to participate. I'll be the mediator, but I may call in help from someone more experienced later. | AndonicO ^{Talk · Sign Here} 13:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi Palestine48,

Let's all join the discussion of the Antisemitism page and solve the article's POV problem. It is an important article. --Aminz 09:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It is a serious topic that requires accurate information. I will post my thoughts on the talk page as soon as possible. ~Palestine48 09:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This is a thread of discussion. [5] Cheers, --Aminz 09:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Palestine-bio-stub

The {{Palestine-bio-stub}} stub is currently being discussed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries/Log/2007/March because it was not created via the proposal process at WP:WSS/P. It risks being deleted because it is not transcluded on many pages (currently 10). You might want to participate in the discussion. Typically a stub category needs 60 stubs to survive, otherwise it gets merged into the next level up in the stub hierarchy. — jmorgan (talk) 23:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

May I ask you why you are adding stubs to big articles like Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Do you mind if I remove them from articles > 5kb ?? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Palestine

Hi, How about putting together a WP Palestine? I found that there was already a project page, but with nothing much on it. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine Are you interested in bringing it to life? --Fjmustak 20:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)