Talk:Secret of Mana

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	To-do list for Secret of Mana:	edit · history · watch · refresh
fill in citations needed spaces using primary sources- 10 plot and setting section, fill in small parts expand reception section, talk about sequels expand development section fair use image sources, replace character images with group photo general copyedit for flow

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1 TV-Series?
2 Screenshots
3 Elimination of Trivia
4 Flammie - Mana Beast
5 Mana Goddess?
6 Title Theme Title
7 Advertisement
8 Popoie's Gender
9 Cleanup
10 New Link
11 Oh come on...
12 POV
13 Blue Face in Water.
14 Handheld
15 ghost sprite
16 Original Soundtrack
17 Regarding the plot
18 Oh come on... Revisited

[edit] TV-Series?

Can anyone tell me anything about that?

I never heard of a TV show of SoM. Do you have any info about it? ImmortalDragon 00:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Uhm, I was asking about it. The "Legacy" sections mentions something about a television series...

Outside of Wikipedia would be preferred for information. I'm curious, too. -LichYoshi 07:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I read articles on IGN referring to Squaresoft releasing a whole line of Mana related products, I'll put a link in the reference section.Judgesurreal777 18:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

My bad, actually it would be movies, not television, please see link Judgesurreal777 18:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshots

I can understand the want of removing the screenshots section, and that's okay; however, would screenshots of discussed points, such as the ring menu system and/or Flammie flying, be more appropriate, perhaps? I think it would be good to show what the game itself looks like, as a picture can speak a thousand words about graphics. -LichYoshi 09:57, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

I think that would be more than suitable. That is the sort of screenshot that truly improves the article. And those are also relevant enough to be placed sidealong the main article's text, also. Cheers. --Sn0wflake 13:53, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Elimination of Trivia

Should we even have a Trivia section? It seems like most of those comments can either go in the Overview heading or a subheading (like Graphics) of the Gameplay heading. ~ Hibana 21:55, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

The Trivia heading is basically a way of saying: "this is useless, but let's keep it... for now". The only relevant information there are trivias 1 and 3. The rest can be easily discarded. --Sn0wflake 01:03, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I just feel like it'll get way too long after a while. And to have an article composed of "useless" trivia rather than "less important yet interesting" information seems less encyclopedic to me. ~ Hibana 02:06, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

I think it has pretty much reached its limit already, and won't expand further. There is only so much useless information one can add. Nevertheless, if you agree with it, let's kill the section and incorporate the info about the patch into the lead section and call it a day. --Sn0wflake 02:46, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I've incorporated part of the info in the section into the main body of the article - the rest could form the basis of a graphics section. -LichYoshi 15:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flammie - Mana Beast

Does anyone know if Flammie was the Mana Beast? Or what?

Flammie and the Mana Beast, despite their physical similarities, are not the same. As a matter of fact, somewhere in the game (not sure where, but it is documented in this very article) it states that Flammie and the Mana Beast are the last of their species. Nall 04:31, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I can't remember the exact quote, but the girl says something along the lines of "The Mana Beast is A Flammie!?" prior to the battle, which clearly states that it isn't Flammie. 130.232.131.47 22:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mana Goddess?

I've never played the japanese verison (nor would I begin to understand it) but the article says that SoM is the first game to establish the Goddess as the primary diety. In the US version, there is no Mana Goddess, just vague references to "gods."

I also noticed that the enemies said to be established by Secret of Mana were actually established back in Final Fantasy Adventure, such as the rabites and mushbooms. Also, moogles DID appear in later games. Characters could be transformed into one in SD3, as well as Sword of Mana. - ClaudeLv250

[edit] Title Theme Title

I know I've got the Kanji right for it as I have the book of Seiken Densetsu piano arrangements right next to me with it in there, and I've checked the Kanji against my copy of Nelson's character dictionary, but I'm unsure if I have the right Rōmaji translation or if that's the best English translation. Could someone make sure both of them are right, please? -LichYoshi 15:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, although "Fear of the Angels", while obviously the exact same thing, is the translation I've seen most often. 130.232.131.47 22:56, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

That's the question though. Are the angels fearing or to be feared? -LichYoshi 05:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I should say that it is the angels who are afraid, but the Japanese name seems to have the same ambiguity to it. Someone who knows Japanese better might know better, though. 130.232.131.47 14:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advertisement

I found this advertisement on gameads.gamepressure.com, and the version on the site is in German. I remember seeing an English version of this ad when I was kid in 1993, but without any actual footage of the game, just the animation of Randi finding the Mana Sword. Anyway, the art style is a bit cartoony to be considered anime, at least that's how I see it. I was wondering if anyone knew if it or a similar commercial aired in Japan before or after this one. ~ Hibana 02:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popoie's Gender

My version:

Popoie's gender remains undetermined due to references in the game's script of "he" and "it."

Anon IP's version:

Popoie's gender is male, though he looks female. It is explained by the one of the dwarves early on that his people's genders look the opposite of human standards. He is often referred to as "it" because his gender is confusing to some.

I don't recall any dwarf saying anything about gender, but if I can be shown (i.e. screenshot) the conversation in the original English SoM (not the Enhanced ROM version) then I am willing to change my mind. In the meantime, I feel my statement about Popoie's gender is neutral enough to avoid arguments, especially since the game is gender confused and Secret of Mana Theater has made Autumn female. Perhaps, though, if anyone has access to the Japanese Seiken Densetsu 2 and can read it (and provides screenshots so it can be verified), the argument will be sorted out once and for all. -LichYoshi 00:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I've played the game many times and I do remember the converstation with the Gnome, not dwarf. He did not say anything about his gender but he thought Popoie was married to Purim. If you search for the word "married" on the Gamefaq's SOM Script you'll find this conversation.

Gnome: Oh dear! Anyway, call me anytime, anywhere. Now, close your eyes...Both you and your wife may summon me.

Princess: What?! ME married to...THAT?!

Sprite: I like your style, Gnome!

ImmortalDragon 00:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Do you have to be male and female to be necessarily married? :) -LichYoshi 14:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

No, but I'm sure that if the user who changed it from genderless to male was taking it from this part of the script, they were going by 1993's social norms. Pff. ~ Hibana 22:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I would seriously doubt that Nintendo would allow a homosexual reference into the game. Nonetheless, the Sprite was sarcastically happy about it, I am pretty sure he is a male. ImmortalDragon 03:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, even though I don't really trust the translation of this game. I would have to play the original to see whether it sheds any light to the matter. 130.232.131.47 22:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

As much as I would like Sprite's gender to be female (simply due to his appearance), Sprite is indeed male. The one "He" reference and marriage reference should be enough to validate that Sprite is male. Nintendo, especially during this time frame (early 90's) had a strict policy on keeping games as family friendly as possible (just look at the Mortal Kombat dilemma), so I cannot even begin to fathom Nintendo giving the thumbs up to a homosexual reference in one of their more "family friendly" games. --Reverend r fish 20:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, in Germany the sprite was female. :) 84.182.122.145 14:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Eh, I always interpreted the marriage comment as being regarded between Purim and Randi, and Popoie was saying he liked his style for making fun of the two of them or just because he was so blunt, or something.. it's awfully ambiguous... I mean, gender aside, it'd also be an inter-species relationship. I don't think that's much proof. --User:Dazuro

[edit] Cleanup

Firstly, I am proposing a cleanup-expand of the graphics section - any more significant information for it would be useful. Secondly (and more importantly), is the Connections section appropriate to be on this page, or would it be better integrated with the Overview section in the Seiken Densetsu article? - Consider this first part done, and the second will follow shortly. Who knows, maybe we could aim for featured article status? -LichYoshi 13:52, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Integration complete. -LichYoshi 07:06, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

If theres anything I can help out with, let me know. ImmortalDragon 04:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Link

Site that has a lot of information on Secret of Mana: http://www.manaheavenly.net Perhaps it could be added to the links section?

[edit] Oh come on...

No mention of the parody, Secret of Mana Theater, which is probably the most prominent website related to the game? --141.152.68.149 03:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

There's an article on it: Secret of Mana Theater. Perhaps a fandom mention is in order within the Reception heading. ~ Hibana 03:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

This game is great on its own merits. However, this paragraph in the lead (and perhaps others) appears to consist of a subjective, unsourced description of the subject of the article, which would not comply with WP:NPOV. -- MarkBuckles 04:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

"very easy and approachable style of gameplay. In addition, with its brightly coloured graphics, endearing characters, rich and expansive world, and a renowned soundtrack by Hiroki Kikuta, the game is widely regarded as a classic and is highly collectible, having set a standard for the rest of the series' games to follow."

Oh dear, I think that's my fault. I was transcribing old text in the article, and I think my admiration outspoke my reason. I was also speaking from first-hand experience for the collectibility, since I've seen prices upwards of A$50 on eBay.com.au [1] for the cart alone. But, I don't think that's a credible source for collectibility. I can't really see through my haze of admiration to fix the contentious POV text above, so I would love it if someone else could and would sort it out. I believe it would be good to maintain some sort of summary of the game's merits and its popularity, but without the bias. I would like to fix it myself, but I can't see a way out, and that "this article may be biased" banner is kinda getting old. -LichYoshi 00:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I mean I pretty much agree with the description, but it's still subjective. I can't see an easy way to rewrite it. It seems to me that the section in question either needs to be cut, or all those points need to be back up by some sources. I agree that the tag is getting old. MarkBuckles (talk) 06:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blue Face in Water.

There is a blue face in the ocean water between the Ice continent and underwater continent in the USA version. The player has to use Flammie to find the samll blue face. I was told it was some sort of secret to get better weapons. Any informaton about the blue face?

Actually, it's south of the underwater continent, and directly east of the ice palace. As far as I know, you can't get anything from it. -- Buuneko 13:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hidden images of faces are displayed in quite a few Squaresoft games, I think that's about the only purpose behind it.

There's also a "stone" face. Use vSNES and a savestate from the Mode 7 scene to see it in the memory viewer. 84.182.122.145 14:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Handheld

Is there any handheld made game for this? That is like the first game except put into a handheld? Like Gameboy advance of DS?

There's no ports of this game at all. The strange face has also appeared in FFV & FFVII.

[edit] ghost sprite

is the apparition at the end of the staff roll really a ghost? i mean, can it not be indicative of the sprites beginning to return to the world, the sword being replaced? RyuBahamut | Talk 00:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original Soundtrack

A page has been created for the soundtrack. I put a link to it in the "musical score" section. Oops, forgot to sign. Happypal 07:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the plot

Holy smoke. Do we honestly need a novel-length blow-by-blow discourse on the game's plot? I thought what was written was fine and gave the plot's important points without spoiling it too much. I mean, a lot of it is valid, but I'm sure it can be summarised. Expect to see trimming taking place shortly. -LichYoshi 13:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have placed a "too long" template at the top of the page. I hope this is not too bold. Ripberger 01:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Not at all. :) -LichYoshi 01:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The plot was my primary concern and given that it has come down in size, I'm fine with the very long template being removed. I probably should've put it in the Plot section initially, but, alas, I did not do that :( . Ripberger 00:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I felt that the character section needed trimming too, so, all the better for it being up the top of the page. :) -LichYoshi 13:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oh come on... Revisited