User talk:Walton monarchist89

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This is the talk page for Walton_monarchist89. Note: Please leave AMA-related messages on my AMA desk. Only personal and content-related messages should be left on this page.

Archives /Archive 1 /Archive 2 /Archive 3

Contents 1 RfA oppose votes 2 Caligvla is always here 3 :D 4 Editor review 5 Ed rev 6 RfA query 7 AMA 8 AMA suggestions 9 Re: AMA suggestions 10 It wasn't you! 11 Follow up 12 Editor assistance 13 Editor assistance userbox 14 No thanks 15 Hugo Chavez picture 16 Thank you! 17 Re: Discworld 18 Editor assistance sign-up 19 Barnstar 20 Majorly's RfB 21 User page 22 RfA 23 re: Another question...sorry! 24 Thanks for your answer!

[edit] RfA oppose votes

Regarding your comment here: I noticed that here, BenAveling said that neither is the case. I still agree with you, though, that any oppose vote should be based on good reasons, providing diffs for any allegations of disqualifying behaviour. On the other hand, take a look at the different RfA votes 4kinnel made so far: [1], [2], [3]. Regards, —KNcyu38 (talk • contribs) 02:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Caligvla is always here

Hi Walton, I haven't gone for good, just too busy with work and travel... to be dealing with edit wars. When I have time I edit, but I around and keeping an eye on things... How have you been?

Caligvla.

[edit]  :D

Hola, Walton! The Mfd is finally over! Thanks so much for all of your support! And, here is something for you...

(Barnstar from DTD moved to userpage) Walton ^{Vivat Regina!} 17:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editor review

[edit] Ed rev

Hi Walton, sorry about that, I've been slightly inactive lately. I will check it out right now. Thanks for the reminder! – Riana ^ऋ 05:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfA query

Hey Walton, thanks for your message. I will have a look through some of your edits and let you know what I think. I won't say if I will support or oppose a possible future RfA, though, and I'd encourage you to be careful how you phrase that when asking people's opinions. It doesn't bother me personally and wouldn't affect my !vote either way, but, like you, I'm sure, I've seen some strange reasons to oppose candidates and the most benign comment misconstrued into canvassing or something untoward. As I said, it doesn't bother me at all, but personally, I'd be careful asking people directly if they will support you because someone might misinterpret it as canvassing. Anyway, I'll have look and get back to you. Thanks for asking for my opinion. Cheers, Sarah 10:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AMA

I did not mention this Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/November 2006/Mattisse (which is still "under investigation") especially the following request:

"I am curious about all the information that was gathered about me by my Advocates, especially by SilkTork. I would like to receive some sort of feedback, since I have received none, except the comments made earlier today by the AMA coordinator who indicated that all my Advocates disliked me and felt all my problems were my own fault. (I am paraphrasing here, as I cannot remember the exact words, just the gist.)" (end of quote)

I cannot get feedback nor can I get the case closed. Postings and emails to the coordinator have been ignored, or he has called me a pest. I have appealed to another AMA person who says he will close it in a few days if the coordinator does not. Meanwhile, the coordinator is posting on that AMA editor's page, right above my question about how to get the darn thing closed.

So maybe I do feel increasing animosity toward AMA, though I recognise individuals like you, User:Addhoc and Neigel von Teighen are very good, kind people. Addhoc did help me for a few days, but apparently had browser/technical problems and could not communicate with me so nothing was ever explained to me. This experience alone would not have let me to have an opinion one way or another about AMA.

It is the defending of the sock puppets that is so disruptive and dangerous to Wikipedia. I noticed User:Mongo posted a diff about how an AMA advocate aided a sockpuppet against him.

In my case the advocate was just plain irresponsible. He got the sock puppet out of the Arbitration, and in the Arbitration asked another sock puppet to email him if he wanted to know the sad story about me. Once the sock puppet was out of arbitration, he proceed to cause trouble Link. He filed another AMA request on behalf of his blocked sock pupped to get him unblocked. This request was accepted by AMA. Opening request for another user That case also is now "under investigation" as that sock puppet is blocked indefinitely. Shortly after the opening of the second AMA case the two are accused of being sock puppets. The first sock puppet defended by an AMA Advocate "leaves" Wikipedia before he is blocked/banned because of Suspected sock puppets/Jefferson Anderson on Feb.5. A week ago the Arbitration was finally closed and the sock puppet's AMA Advocate posts a note of congratulations on the sock puppet's talk page.[4], apparently not having paid any attention to the subsequent behavior of his advocee, nor that the advocee's talk page was the subject of a heated AFD because of the many accusations, nasty remarks etc he made.

In the Arbitration the major sock puppet User:Hanuman Das "retired" at the beginning and the AMA Advocate asked how frequently did this happen. He was told very frequently, as persons who feared the Arbitration decision might result in a ban would retire or "leave" first and wait for the outcome. The AMA Advocate failed to notice that his advocee did the exact same thing when he saw the direction his sock puppet case was going.

How can this sort of advocacy be defended? Sincerely, Mattisse 15:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AMA suggestions

I did send a list of suggestions to User talk:Wooyi and if you like, I will send it to you. I agree with the direction of you thinking. I am not against the whole idea if it is possible to reform it.

What bothers me is that the AMA Advocate involved in the Starwood case is an experienced Advocate. Somewhere on that Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates he offers a diff from an Arbitration case from February 2005 where the Aribrators compliment him on his help.

If AMA is merely ineffective I would not be so concerned, although I also was shocked at the lack of standards, monitoring etc. I have had my own saga with AMA: Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/November 2006/Mattisse. But the sock puppet issue is a very serious one. That an experienced Advocate goes into Arbitration and gets an obvious sock puppet off the hook is shocking.

And even more troubling, I just answered a post he left on Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates regarding my insistent focus on his behavior in Starwood Arbitration (which I do feel bad about because he is a very kind, helpful person). However, his post shows that even now he does not understand the Starwood Arbitration case. He misses the whole point of what happened in that Arbitration -- that the case was about the sock puppets, as the Arbitrators clearly recognised, and when the sock puppet ring was shut down there not much left to arbitrate.

The Arbitrator who recused himself in the beginning of the Starwood Arbitration so he could go after the sock puppets had seen instantly that the sock puppets were the whole problem. He was brilliant and very focused in how he approached that task. I don't think Advocates have nearly enough sophistication or experience to get involved in the layers of intricacy going on in Arbitration and easily mistake the dance for reality. An Advocate cannot go into Arbitration with the attitude of AGF. There is a difference between acting "as if" you are AGF and actually ignoring signs and indicators in the name of AGF. That is very naive.

I agree with people who see AMA as a sock puppet enabling service. Can you figure out a way to prevent this?

If you can I would support your suggestions. Sincerely, --Mattisse 17:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: AMA suggestions

• My first reaction is that 500 edits is really puny, but maybe I don't know what an average Wikipedia edit count is. I would say minimum 5000 but maybe I am being totally unrealistic. Also, I know with admins it really matters how many edits they have done in the mainspace. A person who has written articles and had to deal with the feelings of "ownership" and compromise over a work product etc. has had much more valuable experience than someone who has racked up edits arguing on various talk/discussion/Mfx pages.

• Also, I think more of an "internship" than just one case working with an experienced editor would be better. I have never been an Advocate but I am assuming it takes some degree of skill and that it would take time to encounter a good sample of the variations of editors and problems.

• I really like the idea of two advocates working together during an Arbitration. I know in my line of work in the real world, after years of practicums and an internship and then some years of supervision, one still asks another experienced practitioner for consultation on occasion, especially if there is a problem in distancing oneself from the client.

• I like the idea of no secrecy but I bet there will be resistance to that. I get the idea, just from the comments over this, that there is a certain renegade mentality that is not pleasant. In fact it is getting very unpleasant.

I just noticed that there is an assumption that the Starwood Arbitration was unsuccessful, when it was highly successful. Perhaps I will bow out now. I don't think many advocates really read comments and that this is a waste of time. They appear vested in their own point of view rather than in learning and in doing a professional job. It would be better for my frame of mind if I just stay away from AMA.

Sorry, but this is becoming a huge downer. I don't want to read any more of their comments. I'm needing to fill my head with something more pleasant. Sincerely, --Mattisse 19:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It wasn't you!

You didn't alienate me at all! In fact, I appreciate your conscientious approach. And in truth, I don't know anything about AMA except my own experience. And I do know that many good people, User:Imaglang (whom I have been beating up on so and who doesn't deserve that at all), you, User:Addhoc (who I very much value), User talk:Iamunknown (who is working hard to keep things on track), User:Wooyi (who gave me a barnstar for collecting information for him) and I am sure many others.

There are some bad apples though. User:Mongo complained about one, and although I have at times been very angry with him for being so abrupt, he does not deserve to be treated badly and harassed by a sock puppet with an AMA advocate.

And I do think the idea AMA is a good one if it's goal is to assist editors to understand what is going on and how to adjust to the Wikipedia culture. It took me a long time to figure out the little I have, and many mistakes. Maybe I am just over reacting to the whole thing. But certainly not you! You give me faith. Sincerely, --Mattisse 20:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Follow up

Since you provided a link to WP:ADOPT on my talk page I went over and checked it out, since I have been thinking about asking for that service myself after the AMA debacle. I saw the 500 edit minimum. That is appalling. Does that program work? I have around 20,000 edits having been here eleven months. I am finding it difficult to believe that a person with 500 edits could be of any benefit to me. After reading a few of the "suggestions" today being put forth by AMA Advocates for reform, it seems they are not addressing any of substantial the underlying problems like the enabling of sock puppets. My feeling is that there is something deeply wrong with AMA and that AMA should be shut down in it's current form. Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't use bots or anything like that. I just write and edit articles plus copy edit for editors trying to get Feature Article status for their article. It's only in the last few weeks I've even had a computer powerful enough to use popups, so I am just getting used to them. (I have no interest in running bots.} Except for the advice you gave (I believe it was you) to an editor in an editor warring situation (which we talked about before, if it was you) I have not seen one instance of AMA being useful. Glancing over Wikipedia:Editor assistance, it seems much more reasonable in its goals and not so geared for battle. I find the Arbitrators the most reasonable people, and the most friendly and accessible, which is quite the opposite view than the one AMA appears to hold. I noticed some Arbitrators posted useful suggestions on the AMA page, which appear to have been totally ignored by AMA. I would like to get help from somewhere as there is so much I do not understand at Wikipedia. Maybe you could help me. Do you think you would be willing to discuss some things with me? Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that seems to be the problem exactly. I am "exopedian", as you say, and need help with the other side of things. For example, probably it is some "exopedian" trait of mine that has resulted in the AMA Coordinator refusing to close my "case under investigation". I am a very "by-the-book" kind of person. I have tried to mitigate this aspect but apparently not enough in certain situations. When I went to AMA originally I asked for feedback on my behavior, how I might be contributing to my own problems. On the Starwood issue, it turned out that the problem was mostly not my behavior but my lack of sophistication and lack of ability to defend myself against sock puppets. (So I need instruction on those sorts of things as well.) But on the AMA coordinator issue, I don't understand (although recently I have become increasing hostile toward him). How should I approach him in a way he will respond? I would like some honest feedback so I can be a little more "exopedian". Sincerely, --Mattisse 17:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, well. You are right, of course. I have over reacted. I would never leave Wikipedia over AMA specifically. But is a sign of the direction Wikipedia is going. The Essjay thing, then I noticed User:Hipocrite retired or semi-retired again. And the User:MONGO thing, as he and I are friends here. And what User:Salix alba said about the massive Wikipedia community failure at all levels regarding Starword (although he and I disagree over the Arbitration outcome). And I came across a page with a gravestone on it of one of the founders of AMA, also disillusioned. It's possible to have wonderful working relationships like I do with User:Dineshkannambadi and his Feature articles, but then when a dear friend leaves over guilt because he was the one that recommended Jefferson Anderson to AMA (after a discussion we had over whether he should continue AFG in this case) then it breaks my heart as I still miss him. I need to be able to deal with the community at large and not just the specific relationships I have developed, the people who have stepped in to protect me. So now I am in a protected status, but instead of feeling better about Wikipedia I see the worst as exemplified by this whole AMA discussion (not my treatment specifically) but the way AMA has reacted to the challenge. I like your idea: Editorial Assistance. Can you help me become communitified? Sincerely, --Mattisse 23:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editor assistance

Nope, not designed to replace or compete with AMA, the two are different enough processes that they can certainly coexist. As to any "prohibition" on being part of both, of course not! If people can help, why should we restrict where and how they do it? Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 16:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editor assistance userbox

As you're a participant in Wikipedia:Editor assistance, I thought you might be interested in this new userbox that I've designed for the project. You can add it to your userpage with {{User Editor Assistance}}. Walton ^{Vivat Regina!} 17:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Very nice, thanks! Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 17:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I was in the process of adding it to my userpage when you posted that to my talk page : p

Also, do you have any issues with playing with the colour scheme?

Anyway, thanks, this was a cool idea : ) - jc37 17:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Play with the colour scheme if you like. If you prefer it in a totally different colour, you could make a copy of it in your userspace and edit it accordingly. (Or alternatively, use substitution rather than transclusion, and edit the resulting copy on your userpage.) Walton ^{Vivat Regina!} 17:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Look at my user page and see the colour scheme. I matched it to the other Wikipedian templates. What do you think?

I like it! And you're right, it's more consistent with other similar WP project userboxes. Walton ^{Vivat Regina!} 17:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Glad you like it : ) - jc37 17:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't see why not. That would also let people set it up separately from using the userbox, some people don't like userboxes. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No thanks

As you might have guessed from my userpage, I don't do userboxes. >Radiant< 07:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hugo Chavez picture

Hello Walton monarchist! I've noticed that you used Image:Hugo Chávez (2000).jpg on the no-Hugo Chavez userbox. However, the image is a fair use image, according to Wikipedia's Fair use policy, they should never be used in user pages. So please remove the picture and replace it with a public domain image of Hugo Chavez, if you'd like to. Thank you! Wooyi 16:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but I found a picture Image:Chavez CASA cropped 1.jpg which is in public domain and you may use it to oppose Chavez. When I first made some userboxes I made that mistake too, an admin removed it and after that I became very careful about copyright of images. Wooyi 16:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Thanks for the smile and editor review :) However, please do not nominate me for adminship now, because I just did it myself not long ago in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Wooyi 2 and and it failed due to inexperience and a misconduct allegation (some unintended wrong reverting during my RC patrolling). But you are welcome to nominate me in several months though. Thanks again! Wooyi 16:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Discworld

Just out of interest, is your account named after the Discworld character Samuel Vimes? Walton ^{Vivat Regina!} 18:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Neat character, even though I personally have little in common with the man. :) Sam Vimes | Address me 19:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editor assistance sign-up

Hi,

Perhaps I am missing something, but I attempted to add myself to the list at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/list without much success. The link (which was once blue) is now purple. Are there any additional steps which need to be taken? --Aarktica 19:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Thank you! Your help is very much appreciated as well, I think this thing's actually going to work. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 23:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Majorly's RfB

Hey Walton monarchist89, thanks for your kind support in my RfB. Sadly, it didn't pass, but I appreciate the support, and I do intend to run again eventually. Happy editing! Majorly _{(o rly?)} 03:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User page

Is your user page reflective of you? Just wondering, as the page strikes me as unusual. Sincerely, --Mattisse 13:56, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

Forgive me for being nosey but I saw you enquiring about being an editor. I must say I don't think the edit count is the main obstacle but losing one's temper and making rash comments are near-fatal unless you are very experienced. I would check on the most acrimonious exhang you've had and run it by a few folk. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 14:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Aha. I had a read of your old RfA. Something else important is to appear balanced and impartial. A casual observer, having seen where your politics and loyalties lie, may be somewhat taken aback if you only chose to watch right-wing pages for vandalism (which is what one of your opening comments on the RfA seems like, even if you didn't intend it to appear that way) - i.e. concerned about POV. These things are tricky, I'd also scan over articles for deletion and maybe do a spot of chores at the community noticeboard. Have you gone to SuggestBot's talk page? That's always a bit of fun....Anyway, good luckcheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 22:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe its nothing. Anyway, good luck whenever you run. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 11:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: Another question...sorry!

Hi Walton, not bothered at all :) Yes, I think another month might be sensible. Also, it's important not to focus on adminship as a goal or something like that. Adminship is more about helping other people than attaining some sort of status for yourself, so it's important to treat it that way. Cheers mate, – Riana ^ऋ 16:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Aw, thanks! :) – Riana ^ऋ 16:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey Walt, I just wanted to apologise for the delay in getting back to you about your adminship questions. Unfortunately, I've been having laptop problems and both times I started looking at your contribs, it crashed and acted like a troll. :) I will try to have a better browse over the weekend, probably tomorrow, but you do look like you are doing well. The only thing that has really jumped out at me is that you are still relatively "young" (but looking at Riana's comment, it sounds like that may have been mentioned to you already). Your monthly edit count was quite low until January, I think (from memmory, it has been a few days since I looked at your edit count, so apologies if I've got that wrong). Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten about my promise. Have a happy and safe Easter. Cheers, Sarah 12:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. thanks for the smile!

[edit] Thanks for your answer!

It's refreshingly outright and uncomplicated (your answer that is -- your page another story). I think it is the only "conservative" page I have run across. So I'm guessing that you feel safe within your self. Maybe that is why you are so calming. Thanks! Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)