Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel/Archive 1

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This Page is an ARCHIVE and appears as only as a matter of record. Please do not edit this page. All issues should be discussed on the main talk page.

Hello Everyone, I found a need (and support) for an Israel WikiProject. There are many pages relating to Israel on WikiPedia, and I think it is important that they are all kept to a high standard. I cannot do this alone, so please join in.

Contents 1 Wikiproject Israel Template 2 Hi all 3 Suggestion 4 Membership Rules 5 Translate please 5.1 Law of Return Article 6 Project award 7 The Foundation Stone 8 Israeli food 9 Yom Kippur War 10 Subcategory? 11 My concerns over Israel article 12 Israel Article Rating System 13 Israel Map 14 Israeli Portal 15 Wikinews 16 Project directory 17 Gay parade 18 Manual of Style 19 Establishment of Karmiel 20 Operation Summer Rains suboperations 21 CfD Anti-Semitic people 22 Massacres 23 Turning this into anti-Israel project 23.1 Who is Pco? 23.1.1 Accusations made by Pco 23.1.2 The Reality 24 Atlas 25 Hate education in the territories 26 Yasue Norihiro 27 World Heritage Sites in Israel 28 Wikipedia Day Awards 29 WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict 30 WikiProject Palestine 31 WP Israel Layout 32 Isreali Wine 33 Carter's book 34 made some big edits to binational solution

[edit] Wikiproject Israel Template

I am apparently not good at the template images thing. Could someone please link the image to an actual image of the flag of Israel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eric1985 (talk • contribs).

Fixed. This template should be added only to talk pages and not to articles themselves. Also please sign your posts at talk pages and fill out edit summaries. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi all

I'm in. Ask me for anything about the Chareidi world. Bnei Brak, Jerusalem etc. --Daniel575 | (talk) 13:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I suggest we use this page for project-related discussions. For general ones, there is WP:WNBI that many users already have in their watchlist. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 00:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Membership Rules

"Objects to the idea of creating a virtual Israeli state on Wikipedia that annexes pages - including those for Palestinian towns it ethnically cleansed - to itself, but if such a project is to exist, will monitor its development with the aim of ensuring as much balance as is possible in such a blatantly biased endeavour" (Tiamut)

What is this supposed to mean? Please clarify exactly what contribution you are going to make to Israel-related articles. If your main purpose is complaining about fictional POV issues, I do not understand why you register as a member of this project. --Daniel575 | (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think projects should allow members who are inherently opposed to the subject of the project, anyway. If the user thinks he can balance Arab-Israeli-conflict-related articles (which I doubt, but I will assume good faith), then he can just as easily do it from outside the project. In any case, the Arab-Israeli conflict is only a small part of the scope of this project. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Correct. I find Tiamut's remarks very weird and wonder why he wants to join this project (also nothing that he made only a handful of contributions since July). If no explanation will be given, I think we can safely delete his name from the list. Gmar chatima tova! --Daniel575 | (talk) 13:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

On a side note, User:Heckhgs may also need to be deleted. His own user page states that he isn't really into editing articles and only placed his name on this project page because he 'hates Israel'.
And, Gmar Hatima Tova, of course. Have an easy fast. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I deleted both and put up some rules. Do you agree with them?

Rules for joining

You must be an active editor, meaning that you are regularly on Wikipedia and not only once every few months. You must also be actively involved in editing Israel-related articles.

Agree? --Daniel575 | (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, these are the rules for several projects I frequent, such as WikiProject Ice Hockey. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I thought this Wiki group was open to anyone who had an interest in editing articles related to Israel in a quality, non-biased fashion. It seems as though you are contradicting yourselves when you purge the only two joiners to your project who obviously don't idolize the Israeli state. Perhaps we might provide some important balance, no? For your information, I'm a citizen of that state and believe that I have a right to participate in both its real and virtual democratic realms. You can't just edit the rules for joining right after I join up just so as to specifically exclude me. Or is your objective not as described? Please respond. Thank you! Tiamut 15:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, I've reviewed some of the other project members' histories. User:Gronkmeister only joined Wikipedia in mid-September. If I open a new account and write everyday from the first day forward, can I join too? User:Ilikefood took a three month hiatus from Wikipedia between June and September of this year, about the same amount of time I was out of editing. Additionally, I have edited a number of Israel-related pages. In fact, how I came to know of this project was when I went to page for Tzippori which I have worked on and found it associated with this group, which is why I felt compelled to join. I also edited pages on Nazareth and Arab citizens of Israel. And, I don't edit once every few months. I edit a lot when I do log on and take breaks between logging on. I think your newly formulated "rules" need some reviewing. They are not being applied fairly across the board and without a minimum time being an editor at Wikipedia being stipulated, they don't make much sense. Accordingly, I have re-added my name to your project list. If you want to remove me again, I would appreciate a full and detailed explanation as to why. But I would prefer that we put this matter behind us and get to work. Tiamut 16:39, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I would support removing any editor who doesn't edit much and just added their name to this project for the sake of adding it, whether pro-Israeli or anti-Israeli. I have not personally reviewed any of the users' editing histories and cannot say which users should be removed, but if someone is willing to do this work, feel free to do so. If Tiamut does start to actively edit Israel-related articles, there is no problem for him being in the project (Tiamut: I will reply to your question on my talk page ASAP). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Tiamut, I was looking at the contributions of Gronkmeister and Ilikefood also. They should, according to the rules which I put up, also be removed. However, you and Heckcgs explicitly stated an objective which is very weird. It is like joining Wikiproject Palestine and saying you support Israel. People would be looking just as weird. I did not know that you are Israeli. If you are Israeli, and you are indeed planning to become a serious participant on Israel-related articles, then please add your name again (but perhaps without a whole megillah behind it). --Daniel575 | (talk) 20:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there any point in knowledgable outsiders (and active editors) putting themselves forwards for membership of the WikiProject Israel? :PalestineRemembered

07:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC) Of course they are free to join! --Daniel575 | (talk) 11:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I would be in favor of anyone joining as long as they are willing to work with mutual respect and positive intentions. I think the participation of now Jews and non Israelis should be encouraged. I also don't think that the view of Israel has to be uniformly good, and if anything Jews as a people and Israel as a nation have/has a track record of accepting and engaging in self-criticism to their own improvement. It is part of our culture and just read the Israeli or diaspora Jewish press any day for numerous examples. I'm going to be honest here, what I do find unproductive and exausting, is working with people who harbor completely negative attitudes and intentions towards Israel, Jews, Judaism and who use the word "Zionism" as if it were a horrible curse and think it is perfectly OK to do this and still be operating within WP:CIVIL. (ie as if there are different civility rules based on who you are interacting with). PalestineRemembered has expressed a lot of open hostility towards Israel on Wikipedia. If she is going to participate in the Israel project in good faith, then sure she should join. If she joins with bad intentions, then the project will just turn into another place in the world to encounter hostility. Elizmr 02:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You were too kind Elizmr. I just noticed that PalestineRemembered has vandaliszed your page [1] in a way worthy of a ban no doubt. It seems PalestineRemembered should recruit to a Hamas/Hizballah project page (if they accept women that is) since it seems she wants Israel to be exterminated. Not a good canditate for the project I would presume. Amoruso 18:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think she meant to edit on my talk page, but didn't know the difference or something. But, yeah, the comments she left about Israel were remarkably vitriolic. Elizmr 19:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have apologised to Elizmr for posting my comment in the wrong place (I should really have realised my error when I found the page blank). He has my permission to delete that entry. If you catch me edit-warring in a POV fashion, I'm sure you'll feel free to make a right song and dance of it - in the meantime, I'd like to point you to WP:BITE, since I detect a concerted attempt to intimidate a newcomer (up to and including threatening them with a ban for a simple error).

I note your concern that the Wikipedia:Israel project be a fact-free zone and persons like myself excluded.

PalestineRemembered 19:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, PalRem, please chill out. "I note your concern that Wikipedia:Israel project be a fact-free zone" is a personal attack. If you are NOT here to disrupt, then this trolling is not a good wait to prove that. Elizmr 20:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You can post on user pages as much as you want, but please don't claim WP:BITE when you comment like this. [2] I really do think, respectfully, that from your comments you might be interested in opening up a wikiproject: Wiping off Zionism or Infidel Burning and discuss anti Israeli issues there. This page is not for you. And yes, it's perfectly ok to "bite at" rude people who have the audacity to wish for your and your nation's horrid death and then wish to participate in that country's "wikiproject". Amoruso 21:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I am wondering about the reasons for the PR's request. Why do you need to be listed as a member of the project? After all, that is the only benefit you get by joining. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa ... c'mon guys, what's with all the hostility here. I read PalestineRemembered comments, and while they may be difficult for some to hear, they do not warrant such miscahracterization, speculation, or vitriol. She does not "wish" that Israel would "die a horrid death," she merely expresses her opinion that that's where its heading if doesn't change the way it interacts with its neighbours. You can disagree with that opinion, you can say she's wrong, but to call the comments "vandalism", make libellous accusations of her being a member of the groups she discusses, or other such nonsense totally violates WP:AGF, WP:Civility and WP:BITE. She spologized for placing comments in the wrong place and she hasn't come close to responding with the same level of hostility towards individual statements here. Having experienced similar levels of hostility for totally benign statements that go against the majority opinion here (see my run-in, thankfully solved quickly with good faith on both our parts, with Lord Ameth below), perhaps it's time to reconsider the general attitude among members of the project towards those whose viewpoints differ from our own. Tiamut 23:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

If you support/will support her general support of terrorism/genocide as clearly written on Elizmr's talk page, I think you too should not participate in the project. Cheers. Amoruso 00:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I support her right to an opinion that is unfortunately being consistently attacked and misrepresented by you as support for the groups she discussed (and you're making a logical leap there. Any support is implicit, not explicit and you shouldn't jump to such conclusions. Just as you shouldn't use my defense of her right to an opinion to speculate about my own personal views). As long as her opinion does not impede her ability to abide by WP:Verifiability and WP:NPOV in her edits- which in my experience, her actual article edits have generally respected, as a newbie no less! - I don't feel the need to denounce her, or slander her, or otherwise make character judgements unrelated to the task at hand. You have written a lot of bigoted things in talk pages ([3], and [4]), without even being cognizant of how offensive you are being, but I have never let those statements affect how I view the quality of your editing work itself. Sadly however, your editing work too is characterized by repeated and hostile POV pushing, and your interactions with others, particularly on this page, are breaches of WP:CIVILITY and WP:BITE. Tiamut 00:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Tiamut, I think your case and PRs are completely different. I looked at your edit history and you are a good editor and stand up for what you believe in. PR's hostile remarks re: Israel on various talk pages notwithstanding, I don't find her editing is expecially exlemplary with regard to WP:V and WP:NPOV, but as you say she is a newbie. I don't see any reason for defending her civility, however. Today, she called me an "infidel" on her talk page. This is about the ultimate in personal attacks. I think she needs to treat her fellow editors with a little more respect. Elizmr 00:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I respect that that is your take on things (though, the "infidels" reference, while inappropriate, wasn't an explicit personal attack, as in "you are an infidel." Assuming good faith, it could just be a sloppy choice of language; e.g. she might have been trying to say that she is uncomfortable with non-Muslims editing a page about Muslim holy sites in a way that is offensive to her and other Muslims on a page that she feels strongly should not exist. But you are right that she could have avoided that kind of escalation. Upon review of her page, I have to admit that I am largely sympathetic, since she seems to have had a rough introduction from day one, with a lot of harshly worded comments from fellow older and wiser editors that could also had been delivered more gently. Tiamut 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

The infidels reference was completely over the top and inappropriate. I am willing to accept a lot of personal attacks, but that particular one (especially in the context of my trying to work with a Muslim editor and fix something that he had complained about to get it to NPOV) is unacceptable. Anyone who doesn't think a non-Muslim should be allowed to edit a Muslim topic page on Wikipedia and who actually calls those who do "infidels" are completely unable to abide by the NPOV policies of Wikipedia and should probably recuse themselves from editing. And to condone kind of WP:NPA doesn't really improve your reputation either. I'm 100% disgusted. PR should apologize to me and all the Jewish editors she called "infidels" Elizmr 20:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, whoa there ... there is no need to "yell" Breathe. :). As I pointed out in two examples above, Amoruso has written bigoted and offensive things as well in the heat of debate. I didn't bother asking for an apology, or making a big to-do about it, knowing I would not get one. I did ask Daniel575 for an apology for this [5] and I was not even answered. But in light of the very serious accusations you are making against my character while I am merely attempting to lower the level of hostility around here, I feel it deserves mention largely to highlight that my general approach to all racist statements is to point them out, ask for clarification or an apology, and usually let it drop while making a mental note in case the same thing becomes an issue in the future. (And by the way, I thought I was a "well-intentioned: and "serious" editor? Now all of a sudden because I disagree with you over the degree of seriousness of PalestineRemembered's statement, my credibility is suddenly in doubt and revealed as not having been great anyway?) . What I see happening to PalestineRemembered here and on his/her talk page is quite franklypsychological harassment. While I understand how the statement could be deeply offensive, it was again implicit, and you (and others) have chosen to take the worst possible interpretation. I might point out that you (and others here, with the exception of Okedem on the talk there) did not, when presented with Amoruso's bigoted statements. And it's fair to assume that I will see no similar bolded indignation after you read Daniel575's post provided as an example here. My point is, the degree of offensiveness is all in the eye of the beholder, and while I respect that you might be personally offended, there are better ways to express your dispproval then this. Tiamut 22:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you think would be an appropriate way to express my disapproval. I left her a note on her talk page which she did not answer and I took exception with your tacit approval of her attacks here. I don't think that's too extreme. OK I used bold, but honestly, calling someone an infidel is nasty and hostile and deeply offensive especially when it is someone who practices one religion saying this about someone who practices another religion. It is just not OK.

I meant what I said about your editing, it is good, but when someone goes around calling another editor an "infidel" and you defend them it is not a good reflection on your integrity. I don't see this in black and white. You might notice that I haven't defended anyone's personal attacks just because I agree with them on broad issues.

Finally, asking someone to be civil to other editors and to follow Wikipedia rules is not psychological harassment. People who behave without civility on Wikipedia get asked to be CIVIL. Respect. Elizmr 23:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Not interested in your attempt to protect Palestineremembered's disgusting comments but I am asking you to stop your lies (or innocent mistakes by WP:AGF something you violate all the time) immediately. How is conveying to someone your view of the conflict in light of 80% voting for Hamas, and explaining to him the nature of Hamas (listed as a terrorist organization by the entire western world) and the lynching in Ramalla bigoted ? And even if you do find it is, what does it have to do with calling other WIKIPEDIA USERS infidels, specific other users infidels. Again, you don't seem to understand or you seem to pretend to not understand what's WP:NPA. I ask you to stop your lies/innocent mistakes immediately, to stop trashing this page and trying to attack project users, and to apologise. Claiming that Arab states are not democraic is also a fact, not anything bigoted and I don't see Okedem telling me anything about it, which will seem another lie/innocent mistake by you. Thank you. Amoruso 22:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

This is getting out of hand. I answered your questions in the talk pages where you made the longer comment in question. Read it again. I am trying to lower the resorts to hyperbole and rhetorical accusations, not increase them. You are entitled to your opinion. Peace out. Tiamut 23:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC) PS: I had meant to write that Okedem had stood up for me against Daniel575's comments, not yours. In my editing of that paragraph before posting, the two thoughts got separated. But because you failed to assume good faith, you immediately seized on the opportunity to once again cast aspersions on my character by jumping to the conclusion that I'm a liar. Thanks for that. Tiamut 23:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually I never jumped at that conclusion. Read again. anyway you said "(and others here, with the exception of Okedem on the talk there) did not, when presented with Amoruso's bigoted statements." which is not true, if you made a mistake, you should have apologised, that's all. cheers. Amoruso 00:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Tiamut you might want to have a look at WP:NPA and understand the difference between calling other users by name and talking about the conflict in general. I disagree with your assessments on the issue, I think it's based on nothing in reality and a poor accusation also an incivil attempt to change the issue from palestineremembered terrible recent behaviour. While that's her business, she should stay away from here since it's obvious she can't contribute to the project. Amoruso 01:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Amoruso, I appreciate the more subdued and respectful tone in this latest post of yours. But saying "It seems PalestineRemembered should recruit to a Hamas/Hizballah project page (if they accept women that is) since it seems she wants Israel to be exterminated," is definitely not talking about the conflict in general terms, and seems very much like a personal attack to me. Calling her edit vandalism when she explained that she had posted in the wrong place and the content was a comment for a talk page doesn't seem fair either. Accusing us both of supporting terrorism/genocide, as in "If you support/will support her general support of terrorism/genocide as clearly written on Elizmr's talk page, I think you too should not participate in the project," is definitely a violation of WP:AGF and WP:Civility. It's just not nice and it is a personal attack on both of us. Finally, Wikiprojects should be open to everyone with a genuine editing interest, even if it comes from the total opposite spectrum of opinion. Remember that when I came here, I wrote a description of why I wanted to join the project that some people found offensive and incomprehensible and some tried to disqualify me from participating. Though we gradually worked things out, it would have been better and would be better for people to be a little less suspicious and hostile with one another and I include myself here too. It's a touchy subject for all of us and it doesn't help when we get rude or stubborn about things and breach Wiki guidelines and policies. Respect. Tiamut 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

What I wrote about Palestineremembered is an accurate description after reading what she said. It's quite explicit and obvious to any intelligent person and that includes yourself of course. I never accused you of the same and on the contrary hoped you won't support the same horrific notions of palestineremembered which have no place in this wikiproject or any civilized wikiproject for that matter. I'm always abiding by WP:AGF and that includes you. I also abided by this before PR's latest comments as you can see in the history of her talk page when I never "bited" but on the contrary was very polite until it turned out she believes in jihad of infidels etc. Btw, the vandalism is not because it was on the user page but because of the jihadic content. Obviously that's also clear. Cheers. And out, it's really not a blog. Amoruso 02:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I also find PR's comments disgustingly offensive and uncivil. Moreover, I don't see how AGF or civility should apply to the offender. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the question I posted earlier (what's the benefit for someone like PR to be listed as a member of the project?) I think I got it: wasting other members' time. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

It takes two to tango. Don't engage if you think it's a distraction. All I am asking for is a little self-reflection and a true abidance by WP:AGF. It's not too much. Peace. Tiamut 23:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Humus, turn the other cheek. After all, after all the appalling things the Jews have done, you really can't expect anyone to pull their punches, can you? Tiamut, realistically, there is a point when one can no longer assume good faith. PR has crossed that line. Elizmr 23:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translate please

It seems that this list didn't get much attention at WP:WNBI, so I'm copying it here (minus articles already created):

Here's a short list of articles about people which don't exist on EnWiki yet, but do on HeWiki:

• David Bloch-Blumenfeld (or David Bloch) (he:דוד בלוך-בלומנפלד) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
• Azriel Carlebach (he:עזריאל קרליבך) - journalist, founder of Maariv
• David Frishman (he:דוד פרישמן) - journalist, poet, writer
• Chaim Levanon (he:חיים לבנון) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
• Moshe Leib Lilienblum (he:משה לייב לילינבלום) - Zionist, member of Hovevei Zion
• Alexander Marmorek (he:אלכסנדר מרמורק) - doctor, Zionist
• Igal Mosinzon (or Yigal Mosenzon) (he:יגאל מוסינזון) - writer, playwright
• Mordechai Namir (he:מרדכי נמיר) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv and head of Histadrut
• David Remez (he:דוד רמז) - politician, head of Histadrut
• Israel Rokach (he:ישראל רוקח) - politician, former mayor of Tel Aviv
• Menahem Sheinkin (he:מנחם שינקין) - Zionist, one of the founders of Tel Aviv
• Yosef Sprinzak (or Yosef Shprintzak) (he:יוסף שפרינצק) - politician, head of Histadrut, head of Knesset

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 22:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Law of Return Article

I started editing the Law of Return article. Any feedback on changes I made to the first half of the article are welcome. I could also use some help in locating citations for places that are currently missing some. Thanks! Tiamut 15:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project award

While there is already the Barnstar of National Merit, I think we should introduce an award that is more relevant to this project and also to similar projects like Judaism, Jewish history, etc. How about something like the WikiStar of David, for all the aforementioned projects? If it gets approved, I will work on an image (and encourage others to do so). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Go ahead. --Daniel575 | (talk) 21:53, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Amoruso 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

In Israel, those hanging flaps on a uniform shoulder are a big deal, they show what brigade someone is a part of, maybe a Wiki should flap? --יהושועEric 03:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I made an IDF Barnstar. I am not great with photoshop or any like program, but I did my best. Feel free to make a better version. Here is my original:

--יהושועEric 06:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have made another image, see left. I think it is better and have arrogantly replaced the old image :P if you disagree, please say so and we will reach a consensus. As the image description says, blue was used as a background plus the sound emanation image in order to make it look kind of like Dover Zahal, who defends Israel in the media war. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Ynhockey, now they're complaining that you used the Wikipedia logo, which is copyright protected. Can you replace it with something else (and by the way, I think it looks wonderful the way it is)? Jeffpw 10:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Maybe just one piece of the puzzle with a language & letter of your choice? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 10:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure who's 'they' but I thought it was permitted to use the Wikipedia logo inside Wikipedia... in any case, I will attempt to change the image, but don't have any good ideas. Not that great with image editing software either. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

"They" are User:Striver &co. at WP:ANI#IDF barnstar?!. Perhaps we could reuse this image: ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I have since corrected the image in order not to use the Wikipedia logo. Please comment. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

• Looks beautiful. If anyone complains about it now, they would be doing so solely to be argumentative. Jeffpw 11:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
• Great! Incidentally, I'd appreciate suggestions or help for improvement of The Bagel of Zion. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 19:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Foundation Stone

The article on the Rock of the Dome of the Rock, the Rock on which Abraham nearly sacrificed Isaac, is currently listed under Sakhrah, the Arabic term. I personally have never heard of it being called "The Foundation Stone" before, nor am I familiar with the Hebrew word. But if anyone has any suggestions, I would invite you to contribute to a discussion on that article's talk page; we're looking to find a term, preferably in English, which accurately and specifically describes said Rock, and which will be acceptable to editors and readers of both faiths. Thank you. LordAmeth 22:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I have heard the term "foundation stone" before, but I am not sure if there is a standard name for it in English. --יהושועEric 00:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The even ha'shtiyah in Hebrew. Another example of an article about a subject which is both Jewish and Islamic, yet only an 'Islamic' article. Previously I encountered Peace be upon him (alav ha'shalom), which was also an Islam-only article then. I split that up in three articles: one about the expression in Judaism, one about Islam, and one disambig. --Daniel575 | (talk) 08:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, shalom alechem v'alechem shalom! --יהושועEric 03:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israeli food

I can't find a general article about Israeli cuisine. Does one exist? Israeli food is just a redirect to Category:Israeli cuisine. (This question came up because I was trying to figure out what would be considered the typical native alcoholic beverage of Israel.) --Metropolitan90 05:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Typical beverages in Israel:

Beer - (domestic) Goldstar, Maccabbee, (import) Tuborg, Heineken

Liqour - Sabra, Arak (domestic)

General Wines, domestic from the Golan

I am not sure if there are pages for those, or if they are spelled correctly, but that is what Israelis drink.

• Thanks for the information. I'm still looking for the general food article, though. --Metropolitan90 05:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

no it doesn't exist yet. I was thinking of writing one. Jewish cuisine exists and Israeli wine, that's it. Amoruso 15:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There is also Levantine cuisine, but it's not much. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I have some drafts on my pc. I hope to write it one day soon, if not written before. Amoruso 22:56, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yom Kippur War

I was wondering whether you'd agree we need to change the picture of the template at Yom Kippur War. Israel won the war and that picture may be misleading as it only represents the beginning of the war. I was thinking something could be made like the picture in the template of 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict that shows 3 pictures including bombed areas both in lebanon and haifa making it fair and balanced. Maybe one can add Ariel Sharon's picture with a bandage, famous icon photo of the war or some other photo next to the egyptian soldiers. If people agree, maybe someone with good photo and wiki skills can create that image and use it ? Amoruso 02:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subcategory?

Should there be a subcategory "Companies in Israel" or "Companies with facilities in Israel"? This would include Intel, Motorola, IBM, AOL, and a long, long list of other tech companies that have major operations in Israel.

purpose? Elizmr 02:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC) I don't want to be paranoid, but maybe this would just give the boycott movement a helpful list of companies to target. Elizmr 02:19, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking it could be useful for people who like Israel. They could see the good companies that have operations in Israel. Like Intel, Motorola, AOL, McDonald's, Burger King, Delta Airlines, etc. They are companies that have a significant effect on the Israeli economy. Seeing as they are significant to the economy, they deserve a subcategory. At least I think so. --יהושועEric 02:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You should just go for it. Maybe I was being paranoid :=) Elizmr 02:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My concerns over Israel article

See the concerns over Talk:Israel#Permanent semi-protection. I wonder how we can address the issue that Israel's article will be attacked fervently but it seems that nobody is concerned with articles concerning Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iran... I would have thought that the same amount of users, non Israelis or Jews or with Israeli past, who are concerned with the article, will also be concerned with other country articles - but it doesn't work that way... those articles are left dignified and under no attacks, no mention of controversies, no WP:POV warring. They are presented as normal country articles where the lead is always very factual and sympahetic. I wonder why and how can wikipedia have a standard format for WP:LEAD in country articles and try to eliminate the prejudice of haters of Israel in the Israel article. The main issue is that Israel is regarded by those users as not a normal country. The user Dainelos who is not an Arab or a hater but proposed many changes also claimed that Israel is a "unique country" etc. I feel that this line of thought is an attack on Israel's sovregnity as state and I just wonder if there can be some perspective or edits by us on other country articles in the region atleast to attempt to balance the heavy and undue bias. Amoruso 07:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The reason that the Israel intro keeps getting changed is that it is tends to be formulated in a fashion that is baised and contentious. Instead of merely mentioning that Israel is a parliamentary democracy, some users, like yourself, insist on making unqualified statements that "it is the only democracy in the Middle East". When faced with opposition by netural third parties, like Danielos, who as you point out is neither "Arab or a hater," you refuse to give ground, sticking to your propaganda line. The other articles you mentioned do not seem to be beset by those problems because they are not trying to prove some propaganda point in their intros. Though you are correct in noting that the Israel page will face problems because many people do view it as "unique"; indeed, this is partially because it posits itself as unique (i.e. "only Jewish state", "only democracy", etc.) but also because it continues to illegally occupy land, build walls, refuse to repatriate refugees, etc., etc. gravely offensive actions to people directly affected by those policies. No? Tiamut 11:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No. Needless to say I disagree with everything you said. In fact, I believe you're disruptive to the project with your extreme bias against Israel and do not belong in it. Amoruso 11:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, Tiamut, I have several things to say.

1. The Israel article needs to be semi-protected because of people like you who are extremely biased againt Israel. Articles on Syria, Jordan etc do not need to be protected because most people (including people who support Israel) are not prejudicial or racist vandals, and are the kind of person who sees no need to go out of their way to attack other people's countries or cultures.
2. Accusing Israel of illegally occupying land is like accusing any other country of illegally occupying land. The UK does not illegally occupy Northumbria, the US does not illegally occupy Arizona or Hawaii, China is not illegally occupying Manchuria, and Egypt is not illegally occupying the Sinai. Land gained by purchase, by treaty, or by other agreement is legal land. And building just about anything on that land is therefore legal, including walls meant to protect one's populace from repeated violent terrorist attacks.
3. Surely you won't argue that Israel is not the only Jewish state in the world? Israel is just as unique as any other country, and has a right to that uniqueness. If you claimed that Syria, Jordan, Iraq were all unique in their own ways, I would not argue against that. As for being the only democracy, that too is not a propaganda line. It is a fact. Can you name a single Middle Eastern country other than Israel that has the same degree of free elections, parliamentary procedures, and isn't controlled by a dictator or non-elected theocratic oligarchy? More to the point, can you name a single country whose citizens enjoy the same degree of personal freedoms that Israelis do? Are Jews treated as fairly and kindly in any Arab country as Arabs are in Israel? Muslims are as free as anyone else to practice their religion freely and openly in Israel - I doubt that Jews would enjoy that same freedom in most parts of the world.
4. Please be civil. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Your personal and cultural attacks are not productive in any way. I do believe I have warned you before, but I shall do so again. If you post this sort of biased, intentionally anti-productive comment again, I will take steps towards banning you from editing. Please take care to think about what you are going to write before you write it, and to put aside your own personal bias, for the sake of Wikipedia, which seeks to represent historical and contemporary fact, not bias. LordAmeth 13:13, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Ameth, I fail to see how my comments were "anti-productive". This is a discussion page, not an article, and one's opinion on a matter introduced by others is allowed to be expressed. Amoruso and I have been deeply engaged on the talk pages over the Israel article. He brought the matter to the attention of the members of the Wikiproject:Israel, where I am also a member. He expressed his opinion and I offered my opinion. I did not make any "personal" or "cultural" attacks. Nor do my edits to the Israel article show any evidence of being those of a "prejudicial and racist vandal." I am not attacking "other people's countries"; Israel/Palestine is my country. My family's roots here go back more than 800 years, I am citizen of Israel itself, and I live here. I welcome any and all reviews of my correspondence or editing content. Please do call for an outside mediator should you find it necessary. I believe that any impartial observer will find that I am serious editor, interested in accomodating other points of views and able to reach agreement with others when they are serious about NPOV. Thanks for listening. Tiamut 13:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I apologize... now that I re-read the discussion above, I see that I was jumping to conclusions. You and Amuruso do appear to be having a rather civil discussion, and I should not have leapt down your throat there. I do consider myself a serious editor as well, and try my best to be a non-biased one; I hope I have not made an irrevocably poor first impression. Nevertheless, I think the points I made about the legality of Israel's actions, its unique identity, and the freedoms enjoyed there are important and true. Surely as a citizen of Israel you must appreciate the condition of your own country. LordAmeth 14:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

LordAmeth, thanks for apologizing to Tiamut. You must have had a really bad mood when you wrote that whole attack on Tiamut. You were judging too fast, way too harsh and much too reckless. About the 'Nevertheless' part - that is correct. --Daniel575 | (talk) 15:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem my friend. I understand how touchy this subject can be to all who have emotional investment in the issue. I often have to breathe several times before responding and re-read people's posts to make sure that I am not overreacting. The points you brought up are difficult to address here since my viewpoint is very different than your own, and we are not likely to reach consensus.

But, On the legality of Israel's occupation and the wall, please see:[6].

As for your questions:

1) Can you name a single Middle Eastern country other than Israel that has the same degree of free elections, parliamentary procedures, and isn't controlled by a dictator or non-elected theocratic oligarchy? Answer: Lebanon and Turkey. 2) More to the point, can you name a single country whose citizens enjoy the same degree of personal freedoms that Israelis do? Answer: Lebanon and Turkey. 3) Are Jews treated as fairly and kindly in any Arab country as Arabs are in Israel? Answer: Yes. In Morocco, Jews hold high positions in the current government as ministers and legislators.

Finally, as a non-Jewish citizen of Israel, I do have a pretty good idea of the conditions in this country, and I do not think they are the best that they could be for someone like me. That's a wholly personal opinion, but one forged out of experience. If you want to know more, I would be happy to share. Thanks for listening. Tiamut 15:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israel Article Rating System

I think that we have enough articles that we should work on a rating system for Israel articles. We should strive to have the best quality articles representing Israel, maybe a few featured articles in there too.

I see no reason why we should not use the assessment scale used by many other WikiProjects and codified over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Assessment FAQ. I personally do not have a clue how to implement assessment classes into the project banner, but I'm sure that someone around here who's more skilled and inclined can modify the banner template and organize an Assessment section (or sub-page) on the WikiProject page here. Sorry I'm of not much help :( But it's a great idea, and I'd be happy to start assessing things once the system is in place. LordAmeth 17:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I am up for assesing too, but I don't know where to start. --יהושועEric 22:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I just started a rating system sub-page at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel/Assessment. The template needs to be edited to allow for the relevant changes, and is beyond my Wiki knowledge. Please help edit and complete this page to begin rating articles. We should have a large number of quality articles on Israel, and should work together to achieve more of them. --יהושועEric 03:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Israel Map

We're going to have to put an eye on it... see [7]. Perhaps we can use the maps that Encarta or National Geographic use. See discussion talk. We can't let the map of Israel be an extreme WP:POV version IMO. Amoruso 06:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israeli Portal

I was just looking, and the Israel portal hasn't been updated in about a month. I think we should put up a new picture and selected article.

We might also post something about rating articles as we had discussed earlier.

Just a thought, --יהושועEric 19:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The portal was half-broken for a while, I just completed the migration to a newer simpler framework, so now it should be a matter of clicking edit. I would appreciate some help there. Cheers. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering how the total area of Israel was calculated since Israel has no declared borders ?

[edit] Wikinews

I spend some time on that crazy stuff at http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category_talk:Israel . Check the bottom of that page. Need others to help me. After I said the guy is an antisemitic bigot who belongs in a psychiatric hospital (read his quotes before condemning me for saying such things), two other administratos immediately attacked me. Note that the antisemitic bigot in question, PVJ, is himself an administrator also. I already have three administrators against me on Wikinews, because I refuse to be polite against someone who calls for the annihalation of every Israeli and denies that it exists in the first place. Moreover, it is simply shocking that a person with such views is an ADMINISTRATOR there. --Daniel575 | (talk) 16:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

That was hilarious there. That guy from India cracked me up, I can't believe they kept his bull for so long. Amoruso 22:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 16:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gay parade

2006 Jerusalem gay pride parade. --Daniel575 | (talk) 21:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is project worthy, for now. Right now it's just an event (or a planned event, who knows, it might get cancelled) that is happening in Israel. I would include it perhaps in an article on Culture or Gay Culture in Israel. If this event turns out to be an EVENT, then it might warrant a larger article. For now, I think the article is OK as is without getting more involved. Yossiea 17:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Right now it has involved all politicians, Knesset debates, thousand of police officers have been scheduled to guard it, death threaths are flying around and people are preparing for a war. If this is not an event worthy of an article, nothing is. There are only two options: either the police will forbid the event (perhaps only at the last minute) anyway, or there will be dozens of deaths and hundreds of wounded. --Daniel575 | (talk) 18:01, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

So? The article as it stands now is more than enough for a planned event. Yossiea 18:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Correct. So what's the problem? I just posted it so that anyone who wishes can join in, and to inform others that there is such an article now, so that we won't get a duplicate. What's the problem? --Daniel575 | (talk) 18:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I thought that you posting it here meant that you want it to become a project. Like the ORBOTW, or something similar. Yossiea 19:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Hehe, no. Just to inform people of the article's existence. Also, I'm not the person to write anything positive about it. I can only write negatively about it. Recognizing that fact, I'm calling on the others here to ensure NPOV. The section on 'Opposition' is entirely factual and full of links. But I'm not the one to write a section called 'Support'. --Daniel575 | (talk) 19:45, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manual of Style

I'm wondering if there is a guideline for Israel-related articles, such as Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Israel-related articles) or something similar. —Viriditas | Talk 00:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Establishment of Karmiel

Hello. I'm not sure if HERE is the right place or WP:WNBI or someplace else, so let me know what you think, for future cases. :)

Recently I checked the article on Karmiel and noticed some info was added to the history section about Karmiel's establishment. This info is from a book by Sabri Jiryis (with a Noam Chomsky foreword), so it seems bias is likely. Can anyone shed more light on this from another perspective?

ehudshapira 23:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Operation Summer Rains suboperations

I need some help with the above entry. See the discussion on Talk:Operation Autumn Clouds. Thanks. El_C 00:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CfD Anti-Semitic people

Hi: See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 November 23#Category:Anti-Semitic people. Thank you. IZAK 10:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Massacres

Check out the list of massacres commited by Israeli forces. Although many of these events can undoubtably be described as massacres, some of them use the term in a highly debatable way. I suggest either changing the name of the article or (preferably) deleting the more debatable "massacres" from the list (Beit Hanoun and 2006 Qana are the ones I am most disturbed by). --GHcool 07:23, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turning this into anti-Israel project

There is an effort to turn WP Project Israel into WP Project anti-Israel by POV warriors like this [8]. Thoughts? ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 21:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's sad that one cannot have a project focused on Israeli culture or history without this kind of political, ideological battle coming up. I also think it incredibly sad that anyone believes a single word out of Mr. Chomsky's mouth. But then, that's just my own personal opinion. LordAmeth 22:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The stated "Goals" of WikiProject Israel are stated very clearly on the project page. Users who join the project are expected to "[c]reate and maintain fair and unbiased information on Israel, including history, culture, and geography." I interpret this statement to mean that both supporters and critics of the modern State of Israel are welcome to join the project, provided that they keep their opinions to themselves within the articles (what they say on talk pages is a different story). That being said, User:Pco fails this criteria by his/her edit on December 13, 2006 in which he called defined Zionism as "the separation of people by race or religion" and alleged that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's low approval rating within Israel is "due to his strict Zionist policies toward separating all Jews from all Muslims." This is a purposely devious, selective, and twisted perception of the Israel's unilateral disengagement plan that crosses POV and OR lines. By this logic, Likud would have been Pco's party of choice in the 2006 Israeli election because a major part of its platform was against the Gaza disengagement! I hope that as a member of WikiProject Israel, Pco will conduct him/herself more respectfully of in the future. --GHcool 07:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who is Pco?

[edit] Accusations made by Pco

• "To say that [racial discrimination] cannot be connected to the Zionist movement is false. ... By allowing the content in the intro [of the article on Zionism and racism] as it is, you want to have it both ways... first it says that discrimination is okay because the jewish [sic] people have suffered discrimination, then it says that it is not 'the majority view of Zionism.'" - Pco. Talk:Zionism_and_racism#Zionism_and_racism_Intro. December 2006.
• "With Israeli President Olmert's [sic] approval rating below 20% due to his strict Zionist policies toward separating all Jews from all Muslims, one must assume that the majority of Israel's citizens are not Zionist." - Pco. Zionism. 13 December 2006. User:Jpgordon was correct in reverting this edit for "either WP:NPOV or WP:NOR."[9]
• "Similar to George Bush's statement 'You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists', [Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert was quoted as saying 'Whoever believes in the right of the Jewish People to have a sovereign Jewish state in any part of the Land of Israel is a Zionist." - Pco. Talk:Zionism#Modern_Zionism_.28in_progress.29. 20:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC).
• "While most people have accepted Israel's right to occupy land in Palestine, the most vocal critics of Zionism base their criticism on Israel's failure to comply with the United Nations Resolution 242 ... that was mutually agreed upon in 1968 to divide the land equitably and return land to Palestinians that had been taken during the recent war and was being occupied by the State of Israel at that time." - Pco. Talk:Zionism#Modern_Zionism_.28in_progress.29. 20:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] The Reality

Like most proponents of the "Zionism is racism" UN resolution, Pco has probably never heard or read an NPOV definition of Zionism so she could decide for herself[10] whether or not Zionism is actually racism. According to Random House Webster's College Dictionary, Zionism is simply "a worldwide Jewish movement for the establishment and development of the State of Israel." Like any political ideology, there is a wide variety of interpretation of this ideology (Christian Zionism, Labor Zionism, etc.), but what they all have in common is exactly what Olmert said: the belief that the Jewish people have a right to a sovereign Jewish state in at least a part of the Land of Israel. It is doubtful that any reasonable, fair-minded person aware of the history of the Jews and of the Middle East would be against the development of a modern nation in the Middle East safe for Jews to live in (assuming that person is not from a nation that is in a state of war with that nation). Furthermore, Zionism is a term that more accurately reflects a pre-Jewish state mentality than for identification with the State of Israel in the 21st century. For a rebuttal to Pco's unreferenced, confused, and misinformed take on Resolution 242, you're welcome to read it here.

Luckily, unlike Pco, most Wikipedians play by the rules of reliable citations, no original research, and (for the most part) NPOV. Pco has also been warned for violating Wikipedia:Conflict of interest.[11] Although as far as I know, Wikipedia does not have a rule against wacko opinions (provided they are not included into articles as original research), its important to note that Pco has a funny way of defining what is and is not racist. Her defense of the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust in Iran in which she wrote, "I think that a holocaust deniers [sic] conference is a good idea" (emphasis added) speaks volumes about where her point of view when it comes to the Jewish state, Jewish history, and perhaps even Judaism in general.[12] For this reason, I urge honest Wikipedians not to take anything that Pco says seriously on any matter pertaining to the Jewish people. Perhaps its time for Pco to resign from WikiProject Israel ... --GHcool 08:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atlas

An Atlas of Israel can now be found at Commons. Electionworld Talk? 16:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hate education in the territories

I read this article on the Middle East Forum website and was surprised to find that there is very little on Wikipedia about the issue of hate education in the Palestinian territories. Of course, the title would have to be more NPOV than "Hate education in the Palestinian territories," but the phenomenon is an important factor in the Arab-Israeli conflict. There must be dozens, if not hundreds, of sources on the topic. As far as I know, there is no WikiProject Palestinian Authority, so should we build this page? --GHcool 20:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't know about a project, but see Palestinian textbooks. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 22:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

That's great, but do you think we can expand the article to include the media (such as the childrens' programming mentioned in the article above)? --GHcool 06:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

There is Category:Education in the Palestinian territories and article Media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:51, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yasue Norihiro

Hello all. I've just written an article on Norihiro Yasue, one of the Japanese army officers involved in formulating the Fugu Plan, which, while quite misguided in the reasoning behind it, did save many Jewish lives during the war. The article on him on the Japanese Wikipedia indicates that he was involved in founding Israel, which is impossible since he was in a Soviet labor camp from 1945 until his death in 1950. However, he did meet with Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion in 1926. Does anyone know anything more about this, and what role he may have had? The Japanese Wikipedia article also indicates that he was inscribed in "The Golden Book" as a person who helped make humanity great or something to that effect. A quick cursory search reveals nothing about this Golden Book at all, on the English Wikipedia. Any thoughts? Thanks. LordAmeth 01:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, interesting. Just a guess: "The Golden Book" may have some relation to Yad Vashem and Righteous Among the Nations. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 11:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Heritage Sites in Israel

Hello, I made this template {{World Heritage Sites in Israel}} based on the other World Heritage Sites navigation templates. Could anyone please review and possibly approve before I start adding it to the blue linked articles? Also if anyone would like to help start the two articles that aren't started, that would be great. DVD+ R/W 02:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict

It looks like WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict has now been reopened. It seems to cover similar ground that our WikiProject covers. Should we join it? --GHcool 07:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Palestine

Is there a WikiProject Palestine, for those editors who want to work on Palestine-related articles? Should we begin one?

I note this in the "NPOV" section:

"Do not be biased towards Israel, simply state facts. However, protect pages against other biases."

"Other biases"? Erm, hello? You have set up a project whose idea of "NPOV" is to protect pages against other points of view than a pro-Israeli one? Would you find it acceptable were there a statement of intent in another project that said "Do not be biased against Israel. However, protect pages against pro-Israeli bias"? Grace Note 05:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I see there is a WP of that name. A much poorer relative, aptly. Maybe you should merge? Grace Note 05:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Whatever NPOV section was there isn't there now and it doesn't look like they currently have any members. We shall see ... --GHcool 07:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The WikiProject Israel is the same as WikiProject Brazil or any other wikiproject, most countries have one. It has nothing to do with NPOV or POV etc. Amoruso 12:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP Israel Layout

While the new layout is pretty, I don't think it is very functional. I think having a one page project page would work better and keep WP Israel closer to other Wikiprojects. Before I do anything to revert it, I think it would be best to have a vote. Please vote affirm to vote for changing to one page or against to leave it the way it is. Sign your posts. --יהושועEric 01:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC) (Deadline to vote Wednesday at midnight Israel time.)

Affirm - More efficient, similar to other projects. --יהושועEric 01:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Affirm - per above. --GHcool 02:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Affirm. LordAmeth 19:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It looks unanimous. I will fix it up tonight. --יהושועEric 04:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Isreali Wine

I believe this article is not neutral i have left a point on the discussion board but no-one has replied.Squall1991 09:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carter's book

I'm hoping some of you might take a look at a dispute between myself and NYScholar at the bottom of the Palestine Peace not Apartheid discussion page (Section 19: "Criticism vs. Carter's response") and weigh in. To me it seems that the main article is very much not neutral and skewed toward's Carter's POV, but NYScholar is trying to reject my proposed changes. Any input would be appreciated. Gni 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] made some big edits to binational solution

I made a big addition under the premise that the situation under the british mandate was basically a "binational solution" without a state. I'm guessing it's likely to be challenged. Please check it out, --Urthogie 23:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)