User talk:James

Fram Wikipedian

I found an online dictionary. But thank you none-the-less. --Kikimora

Innungbred 1 Béoþ hál! 2 Keyboard Layout 3 Gewilnode Trametas 4 wucedæg vs. wuces dæg 5 Englisc geþéode oþþe Englisce geþéode 6 OE characters 7 Pronunciation of G 8 Rímcræft 9 George W. Bush 10 Date format 11 Tracking progress 12 Logo 13 Oops! 14 Dealing with foreign names or phrases 15 Landbox 16 Nama þae'm Englisce geþéode in óðrum wísdómbócum 17 G mid 'dot' 18 Longevity and credibility 19 Austria and Germany 20 Language names 21 Genitive plural of the definite article 22 Naman bryttiscra burga 23 Geþéode vs. Sprǽc 24 Rídungtorpedo 25 Gecynde for Gewritum mid Níwengliscum trahte 26 Flyhtscrid 27 GlobalWPSearch 27.1 ang:Template:Disambig and Image:Disambig.png 28 More on the date format question 29 Pages with macrons 30 Jeanette Biedermann 31 Ōðeru, Ōðru 32 Category moves 33 Category names 34 Upload images to Commons 35 Grammaticcræft 36 Some translations 37 Die Perfekte Welle 38 {deletebecause|?} 39 Kurów 40 Request 41 A little translation 42 Ban 43 Logo 44 Translation 45 CommonsTicker 46 Ang.wikisource 47 MediaWiki:Sitenotice 48 MediaWiki:Portal 49 Possibility to learn Anglo Saxon in Germany 50 Vandalism 51 Sysop 52 Some actions needed 53 Końskowola - Poland 54 Request for Article 55 ww2 56 ¡Cualli in Huēhue Inglatlahtōlli Anglo Saxōn! 57 Byrialbot 58 Folcmorðor / Folcummorðor 59 PipepBot 60 Image:Landcarte þæs Virginia mearcaþ Ēadweard Æðeling Scīr.svg 61 MediaWiki interface for Anglo Saxon 62 Translation (again! and again...) 63 Soccer 64 Request to block IP address 65.25.104.212

[ādihtan] Béoþ hál!

I couldn't get James on the English wiki, so I took it here, and will make this my main log-in name for the Anglo-Saxon wikipedia. Feel free to contact me about Old English, grammar, etc. Have fun!

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Wilcume, James. Ic eom for þancful. --Saforrest 12:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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[ādihtan] Keyboard Layout

I'm working on an Anglo-Saxon keyboard layout, so we can enter text using that. Any ideas on what the layout should be? Let me know. We have æ, þ, and ð to placre, and q, j, k to replace, as well as accented characters to use.

You mean that when you type q, j, or k in a form, you would get other Anglo-Saxon characters? How would you do that through wikipedia? --Saforrest 18:37, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's essentially a new keyboard locale, taking the place of one already on the computer, so that you can type in OE using your own keyboard. I'm going through the letter frequencies right now, and j, k, v can go away. Q and z are used, but not very much (foreign names/words). The big question is placement of þ, ð, and æ. I've already figured to keep the other characters (such as []-=!@#$%^&*( and the like) in the same place, no need to change those, but the accent character plus a vowel will give the accented equivalent, plus I'll stick the euro, pound, and yen symbols in there. --James 22:14, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm not a wikipedia superviser or anything, but I do know a potential solution. You can use the Icelandic keyboard layout, where the Ð symbol is on the right bracket key (]), the Æ symbol is on the semicolon key, and the Þ symbol is on the forward slash key (/). To make a macron, you press the key with the quotation marks on it, and then type the vowel. If you have Windows XP, you have to go to the Control Panel, then Language settings, then click "add other languages," then under the language tab click details, then click the "Add" button and click Icelandic. You can't use the macron with the Asc symbol, but for the other vowels you can. -- Geofriþ, 13:26, 23 Aug 2005 (EST)

[ādihtan] Gewilnode Trametas

Ic wille þás trametas: Foresittend, Crístemæsse, Éaster, Déra wudu, and Déprobane. Sume sind styccu, ac ic wille sumne tó wyrcenne þae'rmid.

[ādihtan] wucedæg vs. wuces dæg

Hi James. I trust your knowledge of Old English, but mightn't wucedæg be interpreted as 'weekday'? --Saforrest 16:12, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yep. There's wucdæg, wucedæg, or wicudæg. What sense were you going for? --James 18:16, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I was concerned with distinguishing "day of week" from "weekday" (the latter term excludes the weekend). But that notion may not exist in Old English, so I probably shouldn't be concerned about it. --Saforrest 16:25, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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What were you intending, by the way, with Template:Kingdom? I'm thinking most of the template names in this wikipedia should be Old English names. I attempted this with Template:Stycce. --Saforrest 16:25, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I liked the Stycce as stub...if you can change "Kingdom", go for it. I was simply trying to get it up quickly, while getting the ostrich article up. I wanted to make it easier to transfer over other animal articles. I'd like to get as many articles in OE as we can, so I was trying to lay some groundwork for that. By the way, I appreciate your and everyone else's contributions to this wiki. I hope everyone doesn't mind that I correct spelling/grammar so often... :)

    ---Actually, all the template names should be in OE.  We just have to figure out what those names should be.
              --James

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Hi again, James. I took the liberty of moving your talk page from User talk:JamesR1701 to here, I hope you don't mind.

--not at all. Though I'll probably still use both names, but this one moreso than the other.

With regards to changing þære wucedæg to se wucedæg: this makes sense to me from all other languages I know. But Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Primer states:

When a noun in the genitive, with the definite article, precedes another noun on which it depends, and which would also have an article if it stood alone, only the article in the genitive is used: æt þæs hálgan byrgenne 'at the saint's tomb'; contrast to tó þæm hálgan bodige 'to the holy body'. --Saforrest 17:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

--if it's connected, then "se wucedæg" but if not, then "in þære wuce dæge" makes sense. Depends on if you want to say "weekday" instead of "day of the week."

Thanks, makes sense to me. --Saforrest 18:42, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Hi James. Thanks for all your grammatical and spelling corrections. :) When changing the name of an article, for example from Hrodulf readnosa hrandeor to Hrodulf se réadnosoda hrándéor, you should use Move this article rather than blanking the original page and moving the content via the clipboard.

The reason is that Move has the advantage of preserving the edit history of the original article, and automatically moving along the Talk page as well. It also automatically creates a redirect from the original article to the new one. --Saforrest 10:27, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

With regards to your question about undoing your change: I wouldn't worry about it.

If you really want to, you could revert Hrodulf readnosa hrandeor to its previous content (making sure to include any changes made to to Hrodulf se réadnosoda hrándéor since the move), delete Hrodulf se réadnosoda hrándéor (you should be allowed to do this yourself since you're an administrator), and then use Move this page to move it.

But as I said, for a page with only a few previous edits in its revision history, it's probably not worth it. --Saforrest 04:23, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Hi again. I noticed there were two copies of the 'Community Portal' page lurking about, at Wikipedia:Gemae'nscipe Ingang and Gemae'nscipe Ingang.

The former is where I think it should be, since it's 'meta-information' about the encyclopaedic process, not an article unto itself. Only the latter, however, contained your revision about editing Crístemæsse.

I've added this revision to Wikipedia:Gemae'nscipe Ingang, set up both Gemae'nscipe Ingang and Wikipedia:Community Portal to redirect there, and amended the link in the main page. Everything should be fine, but you might want to take a look and make sure nonetheless. --Saforrest 11:40, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi James, I've given administrator access to this account, but not to JamesR1701. I don't think it's appropriate to have two accounts with sysop access, and "James" seemed to be your main account. Is there any reason you would need more than one account like this?

There are instructions on how to use your administrator powers in the administrators' how-to guide on the English Wikipedia. If you have any problems, let me know on my talk page at en, or leave a note on m:Requests for permissions. Good luck with the new wiki.

Angela 20:58, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Angela! I was wondering...I just edited the From Wikipedia message, and it doesn't seem to appear at the tops of pages anymore. Did I already break it? :) --James 23:28, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No, you didn't break it. :) You just need to tweak the CSS as suggested at MediaWiki talk:Monobook.css. Angela 01:03, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Tweaked, yet the message still doesn't show. Do I need to remove the small tags? Or is something else missing? --James 09:24, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It shows for me ok. Have you tried clearing your cache? Angela 17:37, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It's fine now. Thanks! --James 18:18, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Maybe we should have a page somewhere in the Wikipedia: namespace where we can post if we want to figure out how to say something in OE.

On that topic, what should the OE be for "science"? I know NASC uses gecyndwita for scientist, but then "science" would be gecynd, which is our word for "category".

I suggest witanscip by analogy with German Wissenschaft. It's an equivalent thing in almost every other Germanic language (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Dutch, East Low German, Luxembourgish). Seem reasonable? --Saforrest 10:48, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have found a few words on that topic. Check out Hú secge ic and we can make that our page for that. --James 15:51, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for writing that. FYI, I've moved Hú secge ic to Wikipedia:Hú secge ic because it is (debatably, I admit) meta-content (i.e. text about writing articles, not an article itself). --Saforrest 18:32, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Hi James, it's not something wrong with your computer. The page is just cached. This happens all the time with the mediawiki and template namespaces. You just need to reload the page to see it. This is often done using Ctrl and F5, but I can't say if that will work for you since I don't know which browser you are using. The en:Wikipedia:Clear your cache page will explain it better. Angela (en) 18:53, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Hi James. When you're adding or writing meta-content, such as Edit Conflicts, could you put it under the Wikipedia namespace, e.g. Wikipedia:Edit conflicts?

I think it's a good idea to distinguish between content and metacontent, particularly when a lot of our meta-content is going to be in Modern English. As well, in my skin (Cologne Blue), the background of pages under the 'Wikipedia' namespace is a different colour than normal pages, providing a visual clue that this is different data.

I'm not sure where you can do this, but in the settings somewhere it should be possible to make articles of the form Wikipedia:Article_name forward to Wicipae'dia:Article_name. This is what is done in, for example, the Esperanto wikipedia, where eo:Wikipedia:Bonvenon_al_la_Vikipedio is magically converted to eo:Vikipedio:Bonvenon_al_la_Vikipedio. --Saforrest 19:43, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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[ādihtan] Englisc geþéode oþþe Englisce geþéode

Hi James, I noticed your change to Template:English, adding the e to Englisc. Should Englisc be declined strong or weak in Níwe Englisc geþéode? --Saforrest 03:44, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

When we say "Níwe Englisc," we're talking about the language "New English," but when we say "þæt níwe Englisce geþéode," it's an adjective describing geþéode, instead of a noun in its own right. --James 10:29, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Right. Since geþéode is a neuter noun, we have the choice of englisce geþéode (with the adjective englisc declined weak) or englisc geþéode (with englisc declined strong). I was wondering which should be used for the article title; I'm guessing from your response that it's the latter.

Maybe this would be a good thing to say in the policies about article naming. --Saforrest 15:25, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I noticed you redirected Englisce geþéode to Englisc geþéode. So, which is it to be? Does the adjective applied to geþéode take an e or doesn't it? I'm happy to go with whatever you decide, but in any case we should be consistent. --Saforrest 17:55, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I need to create some kind of policy page on this. OK, When naming an article, use the name without "se, séo, þæt" - so, when creating a language article, the language is an adjective describing the noun "geþéode," so the -isc adjective does not have an ending. So, the article name would be "Russic geþéode" not "Russisce geþéode" (because (a) it's not preceded by 'þæt', and (b) it's neuter). Within the article, though, if you say "the Russian language" it would be "þæt Russisce geþéode." Does that answer the question?

Article Names: Russic/Englisc/Þéodisc/etc. geþéode Within Articles: þæt x-isce geþéode is/wæs, etc.

  --James 18:18, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That works for me. I'll amend the various languages pages I renamed, then. :) --Saforrest 18:29, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Argh, I didn't realize that the edit history of the pages I'd moved had been obliterated. Could you move all the languages in Category:Geþéode to their correct places?? Sorry about that. --Saforrest 18:37, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I see you've made these changes; thanks! Saforrest 04:06, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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[ādihtan] OE characters

Apologies for the onslaught of messages. The current system here uses the usual OE character set but substitutes accents for overbars in á, é, é, etc. It also uses the accented characters Ǽ and ǽ.

These last two (Ǽ and ǽ) belong to the Unicode Latin Extended-B character set. These aren't as well supported by browsers as the others, but any system that supports displaying them will probably also support displaying Ā, Ē, Ī, Ō, Ū, ā, ē, ī, ō, ū (from Latin Extended-A) and Ǣ, ǣ, Ȳ, and ȳ (also from Latin Extended-B). See [1] if you're interested.

If we're assuming people can read Ǽ and ǽ, we might as well assume they can read the rest of the ones I mentioned. So why don't we go all the way and use the characters with the overbars, since they're more faithful to the usual Old English spelling? --Saforrest 23:26, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've seen accent marks mostly, not the macrons ("overbars"), especially since I couldn't find æ with a macron when writing in OE. That's why it's macrons here. --James 10:29, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've thought some more about this, and I think it's much better to stick with accents for now. UTF-8 systems do not handle accented AE ligature symbols well, e.g. try linking to a page with an ae' in the title from English wikipedia, even specifying the character with an entity reference. It doesn't work; I wonder how this can be fixed? I've done it in a couple cases by creating a redirect using an unaccented ash, and linking the English page to that.

If we use the accented characters as we do now, the only characters that're troublesome are AE' and ae'. If we were to use the macron characters, which unlike the accented characters are not in Latin-1, we would be opening a much bigger can of worms. --Saforrest 13:50, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Not that I've actually been editing/adding articles (unfortunately I've been too busy recently), but here's my opinion if it's worth anything: Considering that the characters were never marked in 'real' old english, why mark them here then? As far as I can tell, they're just a tool to learn the language but I think anyone reading (or writing) Wikipedia in old english must already know it pretty well. If it's that important to know the long vowels in a word I'm sure there're other ways to find out (maybe you could even start a Wiktionary or something). --128.205.147.68 19:18, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

(BTW, I'm QVanillaQ on the english Wikipedia) --128.205.147.68 19:22, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Long vowels weren't marked in original texts, but most modern versions of texts do mark them, and whether a vowel was long or short does make a difference in the meaning of a sentence (verb tense, noun differences, etc.). And a wiktionary...maybe after we get about 500 articles (hint, hint). Feel free to contribute anytime...that's what we're here for. --James 16:35, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Sure they makes words mean different things, like modern english read (reed) and read (red) but we don't have to mark those differences in modern english right? I'm just saying if they didn't need them in writing, why do we? Context usually takes care of it. Just something to think about anyway, in the name of simplification. --128.205.147.68 01:04, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Pronunciation of G

You seem to know an awful lot about OE so I wanted to ask you a question about spoken OE. Do you know if there are any rules wether the letter G is pronounced like a Greek Gamma or like an Irish Yogh in certain combinations? When I want to speak in OE it's always a guess how the G is pronounced, but maybe there's a system? Harðor 15:48, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Not a problem. The combinationgs 'ge-' and 'gi-' are pronounced 'ye-' and 'yi-', but 'ga,' 'go,' and 'gu' are all with a hard g sound. In verbs, such as 'gán,' the 'g' stays hard even when in the 'gae'st' or 'gae'þ' forms. Hard 'g' also remains in words like 'gyden' (goddess). The problem is when people spell 'ie' like 'y,' then you have to guess. That's why this wiki keeps a consistent spelling. Also, the 'g' stays hard in umlauted words (gós to gés). So:

  like 'y' in 'ge' and 'gi'
  like 'g' in 'ga', 'go', 'gu'
  between a's, o's, and u's like German 'ach' (dagas, dogor, duguþ)

That does give an interesting change between 'dæg,' 'dæges,' and 'dagas' (all the same word!). Does this help?

 --James 23:17, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Yes, thank you very much. But what if the g is at the and of a word? And the æ, does it count as an a or e or even different? And with a Y, if a word spelled with Y is known not to be correctly spelled with ie, what sound does it have?

By the way, wouldn't it be a good idea to introduce the letter Yogh Z for DJ/Y sounds? I think this will be the same discussion as wether we should use macrons, but I think it would be better. I think we should as much as possible stick to the traditional spelling, so maybe we could even involve the Wynn? :Þ

Anyway, thanks so far, this has already proved to be of great help. Harðor 16:04, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Anytime I can help, man :) I wouldn't mind involving yogh and wynn, but most manuscripts simply use 'w' to avoid confusion with 'p' and I have no idea where yogh is in the normal font we use here.

G at the end of a word depends. Dæg has the 'y' sound, 'dog' has the 'ach' sound (like German 'doch'), 'eg' and 'ig' are 'ej' and 'ij', 'ug' is 'uch' as in German 'Buch'. Same back/front vowel alternations here. After/before a, o, u, it's a hard sound, and after/before e, i it's a soft sound (y). --James 14:40, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yogh is in the Unicode Latin Extended-B character set; you can see the full listing here (as a PDF). Its code is 01B7, and can be expressed in HTML and wiki as Ʒ. If your browser can read it, it should appear here: Ʒ.

That said, my own opinion is that it's better for us to go with the convention for most OE printed material, which is to use thorn, eth, and ash, but not wynn or yogh. Cheers, Saforrest 18:25, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Er, sorry, I misread the documentation. Here's the breakdown of the characters:

Uppercase yogh - 021C - Ȝ

Lowercase yogh - 021D - ȝ

Uppercase wynn - 01F7 - Ƿ

Lowercase wynn - 01BF - ƿ

Runic character wunjo wynn - 16B9 - ᚹ

--Saforrest 06:02, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Also, this list includes all unicode characters involved in OE and similar languages. It was created to go with the Junicode font (a special unicode font for OE etc) but can also be used as an unicode reference chart, with the added benefit that it is HTML so you can easy copy and paste characters and look in the source for other codes. Harðor Holtakarl Vilhjálmusson 06:11, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wynn and yogh and runes do not display properly on my Windows 98.

In Common Germanic "g" was pronounced everywhere as the "g" fricative, like German "ch" in "ach" but voiced. In OE, it changed to "y" or "w" or the plosive or "dzh" according to situation. But when writing came to OE England, it would ave been pronounced as "g" stop or "g2 fricative, ese it would not have been spelt as "g". The changes to "y" and "w" and "dzh" happened after that. When doubled, "gg" became double-plosive, and they spelt it "cg" to say "plosive like "c" and voiced like "g"". But later back "cg" was spelt "gg" as in "frogga" for earlier "frocga", and the spelling "cg" was reserved for "dzh". Anthony Appleyard 23:07, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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[ādihtan] Rímcræft

Hi James. I think rímcræft is maybe a better name for 'arithmetic' or 'number theory' (which were once synonyms in English) than mathematics as a whole. There are a lot of branches of mathematics that have little or nothing to do with numbers themselves.

Other ideas:

• Just adapting the Greek word literally, maþematic,
• Using a cognate of the Icelandic Stærðfræði.
• Using a cognate of Wiskunde, which is what mathematics is called in Dutch and in Frisian, which are incidentally the closest non-British cousins of Englisc.

What do you think? --Saforrest 15:54, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Dutch word Wiksunde literaly means "The art of that which is sure (archaic Dutch: gewis, OE gewisslic)", so perhaps a good name would be Gewissencræft or Wisscræft. Harðor 23:16, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just adapting the Greek word literally, maþematic,
In Ancient Greek "th", the "t" and the "h" were pronounced separately. Ditto with "ph" and "ch". Anthony Appleyard 22:59, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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I'm looking in on this, and there's a steorwiglere for mathemetician; so, maybe rímwiglungcræft? What does the Icelandic word mean? Maybe a cross translation from that? --James 23:41, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] George W. Bush

Hi James, see my comments on Talk:George W. Bush about protecting the page. If you'd rather not unprotect it, could you fix the link to English wikipedia? There's a typo which means it currently goes to Georeg W. Bush. --Saforrest 17:50, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for unprotecting the page. With regards to your comments about current political figures: I agree there's a potential for problem, but on Wikipedia in general there quite a high threshold of vandalism that has to occur before protection is used. See en:Wikipedia:Protection policy.

For example, if you look at Bush's page on the wikipedias in other languages (French, German, Italian, Spanish, Welsh), you'll see none of them are protected. I would be surprised if there had been no vandalism attempts against Bush's page on any of these wikipedias, but apparently the problem is not so severe as to require protection. Blair's page isn't even protected on English wikipedia. --Saforrest 18:30, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

By the way, in answer to your question on Harðor's talk page, the vandal added 'IQ: 20' to the info box on Bush. I still think the page should stay unprotected, unless the instances of vandalism really become a problem. --Saforrest 21:37, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just wondering what "IQ" would be in old english... Something like "brain-strength"? =P

[ādihtan] Date format

I'm wondering which of Géolmónaþ 11 or 11 Géolmónaþ is closer to the spirit of the original Old English text. Does the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle give any kind of precedent on this? My instinct is to prefer the latter, but I'm not sure why. It's closer to current British usage (e.g. 11 December versus December 11) and further from my own.

By the way, as an administrator, can you edit the LocalSettings.php file (described in meta:Help:Variable) so that, for example, {{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} returns the correct Old English month name? --Saforrest 19:59, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do about changing the month and day names. But when this wiki was set up, Tim didn't want do do any special interface customizations, nor install the LanguageAng.php file (which has the day and month names). --James 21:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Why was that (that this 'Tim' person didn't want to do this)? Is the discussion you had accessible anywhere?

I suppose I can see a rationale for some of this: as there are no native OE speakers, one could argue that translating all the meta-data into OE could just be a hindrance for contributors. I don't buy this line of reasoning myself, as one probably ought not contribute to an encyclopædia in a dead language if one can't at least read it. The day and month names, however, are not metadata, so it would be nice to at least translate those.

In any case, if any part of the rationale for not customising the interface was that the effort wasn't justifiable for a encyclopædia which probably wouldn't get anywhere, I think the impressive growth of this encyclopædia in the last few weeks has demonstrated that fear was unfounded. --Saforrest 21:32, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi James. Do you have any preference or opinion on which of Géolmónaþ 11 or 11 Géolmónaþ should be used in Englisc articles? I have a weak preference for the latter. --Saforrest 07:29, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Tracking progress

Hello, James,

I think it was you who asked about it on the list. You should find this useful after ang has been added to it (may need to request it): http://ang.wikipedia.org/wikistats/EO/Sitemap.htm

Regarding localization month names, etc.: I believe our developers are working on a patch that will allow them to be localized on-line. But I'm not aware of the state of progress. A-giâu

See [2] for the same stats page in modern English. --Saforrest 00:15, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Logo

Hi James

I fixed the logo.

I uploaded the new version as wikip.png so you can find it at Image:Wikip.png ; you'll have to update it yourself and should probably protect it, also if you want you can translate the description to Englisc.

Best, Node ue 23:33, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Oops!

Could you delete User:Nickshnaka and User talk:Nickshnaks - I made a typo when creating the account :) Nickshanks 00:57, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Dealing with foreign names or phrases

Hi James. One question we have to settle is how much foreign names should be translated or have their spelling adapted into English.

For any foreign word, name, or phrase, we can:

• Leave it in the original language, provided it's written in Latin script
• Adapt it to Old English spelling, but leave it otherwise untranslated (e.g. replace K with C, th with þ, etc.)
• Translate it entirely (e.g. France -> Francríce, New York -> Níwe Eforwic)

I think it would be a mistake to pick only one of these approaches and apply it to everything. However, it would be a good idea to establish some basic rules, perhaps for names of cities, countries, and people. --Saforrest 18:47, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

hmm. If we have an Old English name for it already, such as Edgar, Elizabeth, York, etc., I see no problem with translating it into OE, and with Germanic/Saxon names in general (New Zealand -> Níwe Sae'land, Níwe Hamtúnscír, etc.). Adapting spelling to OE spelling with names...no problem. I'm just wondering if that would be a good idea with people like John Kerry, etc. (Would you understand Iohannes Cae'rrig as being about John Kerry?). Let's discuss this one a bit further before setting down a policy, so we know what we're getting into by setting such a policy. Can we think of situations where this will be desireable/undesireable? --James 18:18, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If it already ends in -a or -e, we can simply add the normal endings to it (Australia, wé gae'þ in Australian, wé sind in Australian, etc.) and assume it as a masculine (Asia, America, male names) or feminine noun (if it's a female name, Simone, etc.). Can you think of any examples? --James 20:26, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I would prefer not to apply that level of translation (e.g. Iohannes Cae'rrig for John Kerry). This isn't done in, for example, the German wikipedia for English names (there he is 'John Kerry', not 'Johann Kerry').

However, there might be a few possible exceptions to this. Historically, names of nobles and kings tended to get translated a lot, e.g. Henry of Navarre, William of Orange, Czar Nicolas. By the beginning of the twentieth century, this was done a bit less less (Kaiser Wilhelm, Franz Ferdinand). The rule for Modern English is "what is this person usually called in English?", a yardstick we unfortunately don't have for Old English after 1100 or so.

I have no objection to using standard OE case inflections on names, and I think this is consistent with the way OE writers treated Latin names. --Saforrest 21:11, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Since I've been living in Germany, I've noticed that words, such as Fallujah, Yasser Arafat, etc. are transliterated from their English pronunciation. Would "Fálucga" and "Geasser Arafat" be understandable? --James 02:29, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I could see an argument for that. It's also done somewhat in French, e.g. 'Fallouja' for Fallujah. What should be done with sounds that don't exist in OE, though? --Saforrest 21:33, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Transliterated from english? Aren't "Fallujah" and "Yasser Arafat" arabic names, anyhow? P.S. I requote myself from the "Lox" talk page:

James' entry: "and for proper names in general, would you find it better to leave spelling alone, or change the 'th' to þ/ð as required, and j->i? --James 19:44, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC) "

My response: "I'm not a writer on these pages, but I guess if proper names should be transcribed PROPERLY, there's a need for quite an advanced system for historical pronunciation, sound shifts, etymology etc, so I guess a small þ/ð, j->i change is purely cosmetical, anyway... I would say that ordinary proper names, (at least written in the latin alphabet) wouldn't need to be transcribed, when there is a general international consensus."

Retrieved from "http://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lox"

---

[ādihtan] Landbox

I see you've added a new template for landboxes at Swéoland. I actually prefer the system that Harðor introduced for Englaland: instead of a single template with parameters, you have a collection of templates with a common prefix.

The advantage with this approach is that you can create templates even for information which isn't always available. If you know of some way, using a single template, to suppress the appearance of a row of information about a country when that template variable isn't defined, that would be great.

Until then, I think a collection of associated templates, such as Landbox_*, are the way to go. --Saforrest 21:38, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cool. If you want to use that, then let's go for it. I think the only way to suppress info in the one-size-fits-all template is to not include that information in the page referring to it. So, if on Swéoland we did not want to see the population, simply do not include it in that page, but leave it in the template. I think that'll work. --James 22:53, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't think it works like that; it would be nice if it did. Instead if you leave out a template variable foo it appears on the page as a red link of the form {{Template:foo}}. I wonder if there is a way around it that I don't know, since I would've expected someone on the English wikipedia to have complained about it by now. --Saforrest 01:30, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, darn. OK...let's simply use the Englaland template until the box gets fixed on en:, then we can switch later when it's fixed. What info is unavailable for a country? --James 06:52, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What I mean is that some stuff just isn't appropriate everywhere. For example, a lot of countries have royal anthems, so it makes sense to have a special Landbox entry for a royal anthem. But most countries don't have royal anthems, and it's not particularly useful to have an entry like "Royal anthem: none". --Saforrest 13:50, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Nama þae'm Englisce geþéode in óðrum wísdómbócum

So far we've been using Englisc as the name of Old English everywhere, and I think on this wiki that makes sense.

However, I think that in cases where this name is visible in alternate-language wikipedias, or anyplace where someone who doesn't know what Anglo-Saxon is might see it, that the name should appear as Ealdenglisc or Eald Englisc (I prefer the former), or possibly Engleseaxisc.

My rationale for this is that I think it would be confusing to people to see both "English" and "Englisc" in interwiki links. Currently it appears as 'Anglo-Saxon', but to follow convention we should eventually convert it to a name for the language in the language. --Saforrest 13:50, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That's perfectly fine. Makes perfect sense. --James 17:53, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] G mid 'dot'

What are your opinions on using Ġ and ġ (i.e. with dot over it) instead of the usual G, to indicate the y pronunciation? I could live without it, as the pronunciation can be inferred. --Saforrest 14:13, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm fine with that, so long as we do the same for c with a dot. There are general pronunciation rules, but using these marks can help people with pronunciation who are new to the language. We already distinguish þ and ð, when OE used them interchangeably, so I can't see why not. --James 16:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Longevity and credibility

Very intrigued to find the A-S Wikipedia exists!...I don't understand,speak,or write it well enough to contribute,though I am intrigued by certain things more resonant of Norwegian,which I do speak,than modern English.(The lack of special characters in my text browser also inhibits my working on articles).Doesn't mean I can't opine about it,for example I feel that "Anglo-Saxon" should refer to a slightly earlier era than "Old English" while others see them as synonyms.

However,in the context of my work on supercentenarians,I was noting the Mathusal article apparently makes no caveat about his age being a biblical claim rather than a scientifically proven one.Are you taking the viewpoint of faith and knowledge as they existed in the days of the Heptarchy,or are modern standards of longevity documentation and articles about the likes of Jeanne Calment of interest?--Louis Epstein/12.144.5.2/le@put.com 12.144.5.2 21:31, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't have the article fully edited yet. Sorry. --James 23:45, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Austria and Germany

Your proposed translations here might need further consideration. To take them in turn:

- "Éasternríke". The adjective meaning "eastern" ought to be "easterne" or "eastan". Existing compounds seem to be formed from the substantive "east", hence "éastland", "éasthealf", "éastseaxe". The term "eastríce" in fact already exists, with the meanings "eastern kingdom, the East" and (in Clark Hall's dict.) "East Anglia". My own view is that we should either (a) go with "éastríce" (and accept the ambiguity - sometimes even place names have multiple meanings, e.g. Georgia), or (b) use "éastanríce". A third possibility would be to use "Austria".

Done. Éastríce sounds a bit better anyhow. Thanks! --James 14:25, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

- "Þéodiscland". Again the Anglo-Saxons themselves seem to have preferred to form derivatives using the noun, "Þéodcyning", "Þéodfruma", etc. "Þéodland" is already a word, but means "country" or "the Continent" (which I take to mean "mainland Europe"). I am doubtful that we want to add an extra meaning there. On the other hand, "Þéodisc" means "Gentile" (as an adjective) or "language" (as a noun). "Þéodiscland" therefore doesn't make a lot of sense. So then I had the idea that we should call Germany "Greater Saxony" ("Greatseaxland") (or "Great country", "GreatÞéodland"), which is possible, although "Seaxland" means England (but we will probably use it to mean "Saxony" as well, unless Saxony becomes "Aldseaxland"). As you can see I am very unsure what the solution is here, but it's something that needs to be considered. Rjp08773 18:33, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Let's open this up to some more opinions. I went Þéodiscland since it is essentially a complete translation of Deutschland. If anyone has some ideas about this, perhaps what it was called back then (but that opens itself up to other meanings than we may want as well). --James 14:25, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I understand your argument here and you may be right. I'll go with your suggestion unless anyone comes up with something better. I'm not sure if a name for Germany (rather than the individual provinces) as a whole existed in those days, without resorting to Latin Germania. Rjp08773 18:20, 2 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Language names

Hi James. Should Neðerlendisc be Niðerlendisc? I'm not sure about Noren as a name for Norwegian. How about Norðwegisc? Rjp08773 22:16, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You're right. Niðerlendisc is more correct. There is no adverb neðer in Old English. As for Norwegian, there's either Norren or Noren (The country is Norweg). We could do Norwegisc and leave Noren/Norren for Norse (as a collection of all Scandinavians, but how would they feel about that?). --James 14:21, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I was going to suggest Norðwegisc for Norwegian, and Norðisc for Norse, for these reasons. Our word Norwegian wasn't used until modern times (later than 1500) but neither was our word Norse. In Old English, Vikings were often regarded indiscriminately, not as Norwegians, but as Danes - Dene and Denisc meant Northmen/Danes/Vikings and Danish/Norse. I think that for greater clarity, we should distinguish Norwegian from Norse, and Norðwegisc is a direct translation of the German. If we want a separate word for Norse, I think Norðisc because (1) our word Norse comes from Dutch Noorsch, but an earlier form of the Dutch word was Noord(i)sch, (2) the Scandinavian use of Norsk involves dropping the d of nord: the Scandinavians have words like (in Swedish at least) norr, but in Old English, the ð of Norð isn't dropped. Similarly, the modern Norwegian word for Norway is Norge, not Nordge (and we have Norway not Northway in modern English), but in Old English, the term was Norðweg, retaining the ð).

However, after I had finished writing the above, I discovered that Norren was used to mean Norwegian in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle circa 1100 - that is probably where you found it. So, although very late, this is obviously a very good argument in favour of your use of Norren. You also cite Norweg as the OE name for Norway, but Clark Hall and Sweet both give the form Norðweg - it's possible both were used, but the dictionary form should be regarded as better unless we have a good reason otherwise. Rjp08773 18:20, 2 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

A tentative proposal: I would still advocate a Norse/Norwegian distinction, because the language closest to Old Norse is Icelandic, not Norwegian, while the dominant written form of Norwegian (Bokmaal, originally called Dano-Norwegian) is derived from Danish rather than from Old Norwegian anyway. What would you think about: Norren = Norse or Norn Norðwegisc = Norwegian Norðisc = Nordic

I rechecked the dictionary, and it does have "Norþweg" (in addition to Norweg) - so that and Norþwegisc could be ok for the country and its people (Norþwegsǽtan)/language (Norþwegisc geþéode), and we can retain Noren/Norren for "Norse." There is also Norþmann for "a Norseman, Norwegian, or Dane." --James 20:31, 4 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to disagree, though. I would strongly favour retaining the ð in words such as Norðweg as it appears the ð form was the earlier one. Rícaheard 20:02, 4 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

Note that in this encyclopaedia we have taken the convention that þ is used for the voiceless th sound (IPA /θ/), while ð represents the voiced one (IPA /ð/). I'm not sure, but I suspect that the th sound in Norðweg is voiceless, so it should be written Norþweg. --Saforrest 21:12, 4 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

Thanks - I will correct it. Rícaheard 21:16, 4 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Genitive plural of the definite article

Wes þu hal, James. I was wondering about the þǽra in Foresittend þǽra Geánlǽhtra Underríca. I've noticed that in the Wikipedia:Tutorial_on_Old_English#Nouns:tutorial you use þǽra as the genitive plural for all genders. The only reference I have available at the moment (Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Primer) gives þára instead. As well, the grammar tutorials you have on your website give þára for the masculine genitive plural and þǽra for the feminine.

Is there any gender-specific information conveyed here, or are þára and þǽra simply variant spellings of the same word, which is the same for all genders? --Saforrest 02:21, 6 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

No gender-specific information. Simply variant spellings. Þára is the original form, so it would probably be best if all forms of the genitive plural were changed to that. Þǽra is a variant form with ǽ from þǽm. I've only seen one website refer to any masculine/feminine distinction in the plural, whereas everywhere else I've looked has given common genitive/dative plural forms. Þára, þǽm, and þá should be our plural articles. I'll make the change here as soon as possible. --James 13:02, 6 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Naman bryttiscra burga

Wes þu hal.

1. I noticed we have come up with different translations for some of the place-names. What sources are you using? I used the Popular Dict. of English Place-Names (cross-referenced with dictionaries to obtain genders). For Cornwall, you put Cornweal m - I had Cornwalas pl. Of course, it may that both are correct. The Dict. listed these forms: Cornubia (c.705), Cornwalas (891), Cornualia (1086). I went for Cornwalas because 705 looked unenglisc (it may merely be a Latinization) and because the etymology is given as OE walh plural walas (which suggests the plurality of Cornwalas and also its status as the older form). I don't use the 1086 (Domesday Book) forms unless it's really necessary, since it's a very late source in AS terms and because the DB has erratic spelling (I think Normans wrote it). Similarly you changed Cumbraland to Cumberland. I can believe both forms probably existed, but the dict. says the place-name means land of the Cymbre (gen. pl. = Cumbra). That suggests Cumbra might be preferable.
2. I'd only been adding the larger towns and cities - you've added some smaller ones. Nothing wrong with that. However, it does mean that the final list (if it ever became comprehensive) would run to tens of thousands. This raises the question of whether to move it to a new page. Rícaheard 08:08, 7 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

I was just adding what I had from the Clark Hall and Bosworth&Toller dictionaries. I didn't see any large/small difference (then again, I'm not British, so I wouldn't know). I used Cornweall, because Cornwealas was used for the people, people as a whole, and the region (in the sense of the people). Oftentimes, OE used the plural of the people to refer to the land itself, but we had a word for the land itself, so I thought it easier to use it. --James 11:59, 7 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough. I don't have the B&T (yet?), so use Clark Hall and Sweet. (In general I find they don't contain many place names - I expect B&T is better for this as it's so much bigger.) I suppose that some of the small places might have had importance then that they don't know, anyway. Sweet is quite rude about the other two dictionaries in his preface - that's why Oxford never made him a professor (in the British sense of that term): because none of the other professors could stand him! --Rícaheard 22:00, 7 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Geþéode vs. Sprǽc

As you may have noticed, the main page went to héafodsíde instead of "main_page". Also, some of the language links now go to sprǽc instead of geþéode. If ye could help finish moving all the geþéode to sprǽc, I'd appreciate it. We may wish to decide if there's any real difference in the two words, and let that guide our usage. The definitions are:

1. geþéode:[] n (-es/-u) speech, language; nation; translation; meaning
   1. geþéodan [] wv/t1b 3rd pres geþéodeð past geþéodede ptp geþéoded to engage in; translate
2. sprǽc: 7. a speech, language;

Input is always welcome. Tomorrow/later today, I'll be putting up some more changes on the main page, grammar corrections, perhaps putting up more articles. --James 02:11, 9 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

Presently I prefer sprǽc, because it is less ambiguous than geþéode, and the cognate of the word for 'language' in other Germanic languages. --Saforrest 01:42, 10 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Rídungtorpedo

I am sorry to revert your edit which changed month names :: your edit clashed with me editing to put more information in. Anthony Appleyard 23:13, 12 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Gecynde for Gewritum mid Níwengliscum trahte

I notice you created the category Category:Trametas tó áreccenne on Englisc for organizing all articles which contain modern English.

I had actually already created Category:Gewrit mid Níwengliscum trahte for this purpose. The nice thing about this category is that it is automatically added by Template:English, so all you have to do is insert {{english}} in an article, and you'll have:

• A notice stating that modern English is present and should be translated
• Inclusion in a category for finding like articles

There's no need to have both these categories: one will suffice. I like your name better. (Shouldn't it be Trametas tó áreccenne on Englisce though?) If you agree, then we can redirect Category:Gewrit mid Níwengliscum trahte to Category:Trametas tó áreccenne on Englisc and have a more complete list of categories. As well, you can just use {{english}} from now on to include pages in the category. --Saforrest 23:41, 15 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

That's cool by me. On Englisc is accusative, meaning "into English" whereas "on Englisce" is stating "in English." I didn't realize what your thinking on that was...I was making a list of "to be translated" and I thought you were simply collecting all those that had modern English. Oops. I'll remember that in the future. Also, I'm hoping we can get up to 1,000 sometime this year...hopefully by midyear if we're good. Also, I've put Beowulf into the wikibooks project. --James 00:10, 16 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

The fact that my intent wasn't clear is sufficient evidence for me to prefer Category:Trametas tó áreccenne on Englisc to Category:Gewrit mid Níwengliscum trahte, so I'll set the latter to redirect to the former, and we can just use {{english}} for inclusion. --Saforrest 07:38, 17 ÆGé 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Flyhtscrid

Hi James. Flyhtscrid works for "airplane", but I rather like lyftcræft, which was used on NASC in the past (e.g. in the article on September 11). Maybe we could use both, and 'flyhtscrid' could refer to an airplane or possibly a passenger airplane, while 'lyftcræft' refers to aircraft in general? --Saforrest 17:25, 11 Hré 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good, but every time I see 'cræft' I think "strength; skill" first. Now, how about helicopters? --James 16:58, 12 Hré 2005 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind my interjecting. How about something concrete, visual, and poetic, like lyftwægn, "air-chariot?" It's more natural. And lyftláca for "pilot?" (Would úpyppe work for elevator?) --Walda 05:17, 24 Sér 2005 (UTC)

Not a problem. Lyftwægn sounds like a nice OE word. For an elevator, you could do hebbend, úphebbend, úpáhebbend/hebbere, úpábregdend - any of those sound good? --James 07:15, 25 Sér 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I like your recommendations for "lift." Do you think something like úpcleofe (or úphæften for those who find them confining) might also work? --Walda 20:56, 25 Sér 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] GlobalWPSearch

• Halló James! I do not know if you met GlobalWPSearch developed by de:Benutzer:Aka. With the "&minor=1"-option it searches articles with the same titlles in 50 Wikipedias based on latin type alphabest. So far [[:ang:]] is not included. See GlobalWPSearch Alfred Nobel, GlobalWPSearch Mahatma Gandhi, GlobalWPSearch Wikipedia. I would be happy If you can start an article about Alfred Nobel and Mahatma Gandhi. Please make redirects if you use other titles.
• You can see a conflict at GlobalWPSearch Paris, GlobalWPSearch RSS, GlobalWPSearch Odin etc.
• GlobalWPSearch supports already templates similar to ang:Template:Disambig and ang:Template:Interwikiconflict. See de:Bild Diskussion:Logo Begriffsklärung.png#Vorlagen - Templates. It is planed to support also templates similar to ang:Template:Delete and ang:Template:Copyvio. Would be happy if you can create the missing templates or make a redirect to the proper titles. Thanks in advance.

• User:Richie and User:RCBot would be happy to have ang:Template:NowCommons, see commons:Commons:Village pump#RCBot. If you create last template please insert it at Commons:User:Gangleri/sandbox/Template:NowCommons. Thanks in advance! Gangleri | Th | T 10:43, 19 Éas 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] ang:Template:Disambig and Image:Disambig.png

Most of the disambiguation templates listed at de:Bild Diskussion:Logo Begriffsklärung.png#Vorlagen - Templates are using Image:Disambig.png. The image should give an indication about the nature of the page and avoid linking between "normal" articles and disambiguation pages.
See commons:User:Gangleri#My contributions about a "collection" of other templates used in various Wikipedias. Please link the appropriate pages (if they exist at [[:ang:]]) to en:Wikipedia:Village pump, en:Wikipedia:Embassy, en:Wikipedia:List of articles all languages should have. If you have to create the pages it is a lot of work. Best regards Gangleri | Th | T 10:43, 19 Éas 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help James! Best regards Gangleri | Th | T 16:59, 22 Éas 2005 (UTC)

I changed the disambiguation page to add that picture into it. Let me know if there are any other useful templates that ANG needs! --James 17:21, 22 Éas 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] More on the date format question

Hi again James. Sorry to belabour this point, but I still have issues with the date format convention.

I would like us to decide on a convention for OE dates. The three conventions around now are:

1. 11 Solmónaþ
2. Solmónaþ 11
3. 11e Solmónaþes

My own preference is, somewhat strongly, for the first. My argument is that it makes it easy to write the date in the way an OE speaker would say it (with number first) without overcomplicating the matter with inflexions.

I gather from what you've done and said previously that your preference is for the second. My objections to this format are that:

• an OE speaker would probably not have said the name of the month before the day, and
• the main basis I see for this choice is our own date convention as North American English speakers, e.g. "March 31". This is a pretty artificial choice, particularly as most Commonwealth English speakers, as well as speakers of French and German and other European languages, both put the number after the month. (31 mars and 31. Marz).

Starting from about January I'd made a bit of a project of translating calendar information into ang, both in articles on days and the 'events of the day' pages. Since we hadn't had a convention established, I'd made up my own, which was the first one (e.g. 11 Solmónaþ), and used that throughout article names and article links. See, for example, Category:Géaresdæg.

I know I'd never cleared this convention with others, but I guess I was a bit frustrated when you edited Héafodsíde (to which only you have write access) to effectively impose an alternate convention (the Solmónaþ 11 one), particularly when just to make things work again I'll have to rename all my existing articles and fix all the links to follow this imposed convention.

What I'm looking for, I guess, is for you to convince me why the second convention (Solmónaþ 11) is better, or for us to agree on the 11 Solmónaþ convention and save the work of fixing the article names and links.

It would be good if you respond soonish, as I'd like to get back into translating event articles, but don't want to do so if it means going back and changing all the dates again. Thanks. --Saforrest, 20:11, 17 Sér 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Pages with macrons

Hi James. In general we should probably avoid using macrons until we decide whether we're using macrons or acute accents.

In any case, I'd suggest against creating macronized versions of pages like Ealra Hālgena Ǣfen for the original Ealra Hálgena Ǽfen. The proper thing to do is to formally move it if we decide to go with macrons. Copy-pasting it is bad for the same reason that copy-pasting is generally bad. --Saforrest 04:50, 31 Wéodmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

No worries about the two different kinds of pages; I wasn't quite sure what you had intended before. Thanks for creating the vote page.

By the way, I replied to your post on wikipedia-l about the appearance of ǽ versus ǣ: I hope the information about Arial Unicode is helpful. --Saforrest 01:16, 2 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

Hi, over at en:Talk:Old English language there was a discussion of whether to use acutes or macrons in en:Old English language. One of the arguments was that since acutes are used here at ang: they should be used in the en: article as well. If the editors of ang: have decided to switch to macrons, does that mean we can (finally!) switch to macrons at en:Old English language as well? Angr 08:45, 10 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Jeanette Biedermann

Hello, this is de:Benutzer:Steffen Löwe Gera, administrator of de-wikipedia ... i'd like to know how you guo the idea to write about a German pop singer in Anglo Saxon? --213.7.105.34 19:40, 2 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Ōðeru, Ōðru

What's your reason for preferring ōðeru over ōðru? Most of the books I have seem to have the latter. --Saforrest 05:04, 9 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

Well, if ōðru appears more often than ōðeru in Bosworth and Toller, then I guess I'll go ahead and move Ōðeru Woruldgūþ back where it was originally. Let me know if you have any objections. Saforrest 22:55, 9 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I modelled it after haligu from the Wright's Grammar, which has haligu, not halgu throughout. And since it is declined like hálig, I thought it best to put it at Ōðeru. --James 06:17, 10 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Category moves

Hi James. Since you're the only one who can do category moves (on this wiki, anyway) could you rename the categories with acute accents in their titles? A good place to start is Special:Unused categories, since my efforts at replacing instances of acute accents with macrons have meant that a lot of pages now refer to their category titles with macrons (as they should) and therefore don't work yet since the categories need to be moved. --Saforrest 21:17, 9 Háligmónaþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Category names

There is already Category:Sprǣc, so Category:Sprǣca is not needed.

I suppose there's a question about whether singular or plural is preferable. As far as I've seen, the only wikipedia which prefers the plural form to the singular one in category names is the Modern English one: the French and German wikipedias both use singular (e.g. de:Kategorie:Mann rather than de:Kategorie:Männer on German wikipedia.)

So I think I'd prefer to use singular over plural. Do you have a preference? --Saforrest 02:40, 21 Hāligmōnaþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Upload images to Commons

Hi James, I see you've uploaded a fair number of images. Before uploading something here, you might consider checking on the Commons for something equivalent, and/or uploading your images and other content there.

That way, the image in question will be usable by all Wikimedia projects, and doesn't take up any space here. --Saforrest 21:29, 1 Winterfylleþ 2005 (UTC)

As an example, it wasn't necessary to upload Image:John G. Roberts.jpg, since the identical image exists on the Commons, named 'John Roberts.jpg'. We could make a customized Englisc version of the Commons page at Image:John Roberts.jpg. Right now, the 'John G. Roberts' file is just taking up disk space. --Saforrest 21:38, 1 Winterfylleþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Grammaticcræft

Thanks. Richard. 20:33, 8 Winterfylleþ 2005 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Some translations

Hi, I'm writing an essay that refers to Old English (relating to word order) and I'd like to get some example sentences translated.

The cow the table ate

Ate the cow the table

The cow ate the table

If you could do me this favour I would be very grateful, many thanks - FrancisTyers

Thanks for your reply, the cow is the subject in all three and the table is the object :) - FrancisTyers

Sēo cū þone bēod ǣt.

Ǣt sēo cū þone bēod.

Sēo cū ǣt þone bēod.

Thanks! :) - FrancisTyers

[ādihtan] Die Perfekte Welle

Hi,

als großer Fan von Juli freue ich mich zwar sehr, dass du was über Perfekte Welle (der Titel wird übrigens ohne Artikel geschrieben) verfasst hast, aber ich glaube nicht, dass der Songtext bei Wikipedia stehen darf. Der Admin von http://www.esistjuli.de/ (der größten Fanseite, wo ich auch Mitglied im Forum bin) bemüht sich schon seit langem vergeblich, die Rechte für das Veröffentlichen der Songtexte von der Plattenfirma zu bekommen. -- slg

Vielen Dank :-)

Ich kenne leider keinen Link mit den Lyrics (da es das Label verboten hat), aber ich werde den Administrator von esistjuli.de fragen. -- slg

[ādihtan] {deletebecause|?}

Hi there. I was wondering what I can do in order to mark a page for deletion. I've already noticed two vandals creating new pages but all I was able to do was blank them. Enwiki has the {deletebecause} template but here I wasn't able to locate anything like that. Is this another thing on the to-do list or have I just missed the proper template? Thanks. Bansp 01:50, 21 Solmōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Kurów

Could you please write a stub http://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w - just a few sentences based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kur%C3%B3w ? Only 2 -5 sentences enough. Please. Pietras1988 15:55, 2 Hrēþmōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Request

Hello James, I'm wondering if you could help me fix this article that I created into the proper Old English language? The article looks "awful" at the moment. Please -- Regards Joseph 10 March 2006.

Yes, I am very interested in Old English! -- Regards, Joseph, 11 March 2006

Thanks a lot for your help (and time)! I am very gratefull and I'll try to finish the rest of the article.-- Regards, Joseph, 11 March 2006

I finally managed to get the caption done (after trying multiple times!). The right order turned out to be "Image.jpg|right|thumb|Description" instead of "Image.jpg|thumb|right|Description" (in fact, I had mistakenly typed the word "thumb" as "thubm"!)-- Regards, Joseph, 9:33 am, 11 March 2006 (NZ time)

[ādihtan] A little translation

Hi, James! Could you help me translating the following text to Anglo-Saxon?

"Allan Kardec is the pseudonym used by the French educator Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail during his 15 last years of life, dedicated to the structuration of the Spiritism. As an educator, he was one of the main divulgators of Pestalozzi's educational method in the 19th century. Published books of grammar, Arithmetic and suggestions for the improvement of public education in France. Taught physiology, astronomy, physics and chemistry at Polimatic Lyceum, in Paris."

Wendung: "Allan Kardec is se ōðernama gebrocen fram þǣm Frenciscan lǣrere Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail in his 15 endegēarum his līfes, þe is gecnoden tō structuration? þæs Gāstscipes. Swā lǣrere wæs hē ān þāra hēafodgewīdmǣrsera for Pestalozzies lǣrendlicum wege in þǣre 19an ielde. Hē forþypte grammaticcræftbēc, mcræft, and scēonessa for gebētunge folclicre lǣrunge in Franclande. Lǣrde bodigcræft, tungolcræftwīsan, physica, chemistry æt Polimatiscum Lyceum, in Parise." - That's my attempt, but some words I'd need a better definition to get a good translation. --24.127.228.85 03:57, 18 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

"In 1854, Rivail started studying the paranormal phenomena that were investigated by many scientists and philosophers during the second half of 19th century. His pedagogical sense, built along 30 years focused on education, was fundamental in his attempt to elaborate a system of thought in which the spiritual manifestations worked to the social and moral transformation of the humanity. Instead of devoting the rest of his life "to prove scientifically" that some of those phenomena could be caused by the action of spirits, Kardec tried to extract from the possibility embraced by him, the spiritual or medunic hypothesis, something of profit for the humanity. Inspired by this ideal, he dedicated his last years to the structuration of the philosophical whose name was created by him: the Spiritism (fr. Spiritisme)." Arges 03:13, 6 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

So, James, could you help me? Arges 13:04, 17 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts! You could substitute "structuration", for systematization, organisation or compilation. The point is that he didn't properly "create" it, but systematized ideas and pratices connected with the human transcendence in a philosophical doctrine. Any other problematic word? Arges 15:47, 18 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Ban

Could you ban the IP range 85.100.228.105-85.102.146.206? They seem to frequent the How to edit a page. -- Zanimum 14:52, 13 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Logo

Hi I saw you needed a new wiki logo, I created my own logo (on nds-nl) by copy-pasting, because I don't have the correct font type. I also created one for ang, you can see the result , if you like it you can ask one of the developers to activate it for you once it's been uploaded an protected as wiki.png Servien 16:57, 13 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Translation

Hey James,

I'm a public school teacher from West Virginia and I've been asking contributors on the various Wikipedias in other languages if they could each write a stub for Hampshire County, West Virginia. The purpose is simply for the students in my class to view the various different languages that describe a place they are familiar with. I would very appreciate it if you could write some sort of stub on Hampshire County in Old English in your spare time. Thank you! --207.255.207.24 03:25, 21 Ēastermōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] CommonsTicker

Hi - please go through the checklist on meta, set up the ticker page and tell me your preferrences. I will then test the ticker. If you can contact me on IRC, things will probably go much faster :) -- de:Benutzer:Duesentrieb 12:38, 3 Sēremōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Ang.wikisource

Hi! I didn't know that the Ang: wikisource had been created until you told me about it, so thanks for letting me know! I'll try to put up some things to the en: domain when I can, I'm just wondering if it's the right place to put documents in a foreign language (is Goethe in German or English there?). If there's any help or advice you could offer me on any of the ang: sites, please do! I'm always open to new ideas on wiki. James--66.177.127.7 17:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:BirgitteSB"

I don't really consider anglo-saxon a foriegn language to en.wikisource. Our policy is to title the text by the most common name. Since most (if not all) Anglo-Saxon works did not have "titles" as we would use the term today, I believe they will end up with modern titles (i.e. s:en:Bright's Anglo-Saxon Reader. But I am not against titling works in Anglo-Saxon as long it has been published that way at some point. In fact many works should probaly be disambiguation pages with links to the original Anglo-Saxon as well as modern interpretaions. I really think it would be great to have an Anglo-Saxon Portal that could be written in Anglo-Saxan on en.WS. We have not started portals at all yet as we are waiting for the namespace manager. This is all just me brainstorming so others may disagree, but I think all english languages should be at en.WS. Since we are working with staitic texts we do not have to worry about one editor writing in scots and another adding a bit in middle english. In fact we do not even have to deal with the british vs american spelling problems that en.WP does. I think that to make a seperate ang.WS is really a wasted effort as far as all the administrative work that must be done. If we just used the infastructure of en.WS everyone would have more time to actually work on texts.--70.240.133.6 18:14, 6 Sēremōnaþ 2006 (UTC) en:User:BirgitteSB

[ādihtan] MediaWiki:Sitenotice

Needs updateing - rm "Frēo Feohgifunga sind gehenda; nīedgewritu gebyriaþ ǣr þǣm 28an Sēremōnþes." Rich Farmbrough 21:06 1 Mǣdmōnaþ 2006 (UTC).

---

MYSPACE.com question

Hi I don't know where to post questions here, so I am just using the edit option- I hope it's ok.. ; anyway, I just wanted to ask how do you translate the terms on the www.Myspace.com site contact table, or how do you call the Blog and things like that. Thanks for your help. -Fran.

[ādihtan] MediaWiki:Portal

Hi James: Not sure if you come by here much recently (I certainly haven't). I noticed that MediaWiki:Portal is "Gemǣnscipe Ingang" in Englisce; I imagine this is from when it used to be "Community Portal" in English. Since it's now simply "Portal", I would think "Ingang" would do. If you agree, could you change it to that? --Saforrest 06:19, 1 Wēodmōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Possibility to learn Anglo Saxon in Germany

Hi James, I just wanted to ask if you know any institute in Germany where it is possible to learn Anglo Saxon. It sounds interesting to me because I'm visiting the 6th form of a German high school right now, and my main subject is English. Last week our teacher told us to look up information about the preceeding languages of modern English, so I found the Anglo Saxon Wikipedia and also had a short look on your user page. I'd welcome you to visit my user-page on the German wiki.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer/BigAl

Thank you, BigAl

--80.132.234.238 21:30, 6 Hāligmōnaþ 2006 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Vandalism

Someone's let us know about vandalism on Wikify - you seem to be an active local admin, so could you delete it if possible? Thanks. en:User:Shimgray

[ādihtan] Sysop

I was made sysop by one of bureaucrats last autumn, after a huge wave of vandalism here. As I try to be here as often as possible, I asked for temporary sysop rights. Remigiu 17:26, 30 Se Æfterra Gēola 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Some actions needed

Please check Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, which has a huge backlog of articles that need to be deleted. Also, consider blocking some accounts indefinitely, since they are holding inappropriate usernames (this and this, in example). Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 00:51, 18 Hrēþmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what you said in my talk page, but it is good to see the backlog gone :-) Thanks! -- ReyBrujo 05:22, 31 Hrēþmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Końskowola - Poland

Could you please write a stub http://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%84skowola - just a few sentences based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%84skowola ? Only 3-5 sentences enough. Please. 123owca321 19:07, 31 Þrimilcemōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Request for Article

Good Evening James!

Would you mind helping me write a stub http://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Grammar_School - just a few sentences based on the English article? Just 2-4 sentences would be sufficient enough. Please. --Per Angusta 08:19, 19 Sēremōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] ww2

I notice you speak english and anglo-saxon... Brilliant, and you added stuff to that ww2 article, excellent, but I was thinking with your translation skills see if you can translate part of the english ww2 article to anglo-saxon. --24.225.156.40 23:11, 23 Sēremōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] ¡Cualli in Huēhue Inglatlahtōlli Anglo Saxōn!

Hi. I don't know if you can help me find a dictionary for basic Anglo Saxon words as I'm quite interested in these old languages. If you could reply me on my talk page, I would be grateful. ¡Tlahzocamati! -- Fluence 20:19, Tlachicuazti 23 2007 (UTC-5)

Thanks for the answer :)--148.221.178.70 02:01, 26 Sēremōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Byrialbot

Hello James. You seem to be one of the few local active persons on this Wikipedia. As you may have noted I have started to run the bot Byrialbot here in order to update interwiki links. If it is marked as a bot, its contributions will no longer appear in the recent changes page (unless you select the "show bots" link) so the "real" changes will be easier to spot. I made a request for a bot flag. I invite you to give your opinion on the request. If the request gets local support, I can afterwards ask a steward at the Meta-Wiki to grant the bot flag. Thank you. Byrial 07:37, 6 Mǣdmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Folcmorðor / Folcummorðor

Hi James. About the Folcmorðor / Folcummorðor thing:

I was originally going to use "Folcmorðor" myself, but the word I was basing the coining on was der Völkermord in German and de volkerenmoord in Dutch.

Both of these use the genitive plural of "folk": that is, the meaning is (roughly) the "murder of peoples" rather than "people-murder".

I'm happy with using "folcmorðor", but I wonder if it carries the proper emphasis on the scale of the murder in question. --Saforrest 19:05, 31 Mǣdmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing up my confusion on this! I have gone with the genitive plural (folcamorðor) for consistency with the German. I have also followed the same convention in folcawanderung.

(I confess I have a bit of a weakness for adapting German words to Englisc: it's just so cool to see it become slightly more recognizable to my Modern English eyes: it emphasizes the oft-hidden continuity of the Germanic languages.) --Saforrest 04:55, 5 Wēodmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] PipepBot

Hello James, I asked for bot status for PipepBot on Wikipedia:Þorpes Wiella and on Meta. A bureaucrat wrote, I have first to ask the opinion of the users. Could you please write your opinion at Wikipedia:Þorpes Wiella? Thank you very much! it:User:Pipep 19:16, 22 Wēodmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Image:Landcarte þæs Virginia mearcaþ Ēadweard Æðeling Scīr.svg

No objection to having this here, but there was no need to upload it. We could have just used commons:Image:Map of Virginia highlighting Prince Edward County.svg because it's on Wikimedia Commons and is usable by all projects. --Saforrest 05:01, 23 Wēodmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] MediaWiki interface for Anglo Saxon

Hi James. I see you have in the past done some Anglo Saxon localisation of the interface of MediaWiki by editing page in the namespace MediaWiki. I was wondering if you knew that localisation in this local Wikipedia means that only this Wikipedia can benefit of your efforts for Anglo Saxon.

I am one of the administrators of Betawiki. In this wiki we facilitate localisation of any language for MediaWiki. I was wondering if you were willing to go over there and work on the localisation of Anglo Saxon. From there we will add your translations to the source code of MediaWiki, so that anyone can benifit from your efforts (for example on Wikimedia Commons) and those installing MediaWiki outside Wikimedia projects.

Currently about 28% of the Anglo Saxon core messages for MediaWiki are available.

If you personally do not want to make the effort, for whichever reason, please do make an effort to try and find 2 or 3 other users that are willing to work on the generic translation for the MediaWiki interface on Betawiki. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Thank you very much for your current and past efforts to put Anglo Saxon on the digital map. Cheers! Siebrand 16:02, 5 Blōtmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Translation (again! and again...)

Just a few things... First, I fully welcome you to correct my articles which I've written so far, as you've done with the "Roanoke, Virginia" entry, since I value truth and accuracy above all else. I've made a list of them on my User Page on here, just for my own easy access.

Next, I've made a few video game articles, using "computer game" as the term for the modern concept, specifically, spærcletelle gamen as singular, and "spærcletelle gamne" as plural... although I'm sure I somehow got that wrong. Just lemme know if I did and I'll fix all instances of that. What should the full case listing for "game" be?

Finally, I want to write one for the Heathen (Germanic/Norse Pagan) concept of "Draugr," and I was wondering how best to translate the term into Old English, based on how Old Norse terms with "au" end up becoming in Old English. Would simply "Draug" be fine? Just send a message to me on my User Talk page so I'll know to check here, thanks. Ƿōdenhelm 07:59, 23 Gēolmōnaþ 2007 (UTC)

How would "sport" be translated, in the sense of a team sport? I have a short stub article for the Washington Capitals, and I just saw on the Main Page about the NHL's first instance of racial integration, so I figured I could get some information up about hockey, the NHL, and various teams. Thanks man. Ƿōdenhelm 05:54, 18 Se Æfterra Gēola 2008 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Soccer

I want to write a page for the sport of soccer/football. Fōt would be the obvious first part of the page's title, but when researching the terms for "ball," I only found this entry on a webpage:

ball = æppel m anything round,
clíewen n sphere,
þóðer m, þóðor m sphere;
~ of thread or yarn clíewen n

I feel that æppel would be misinterpreted as the fruit, and I've seen clīewen also used as a "group." What do you suppose is the best solution for the compound "football"? Message me back.
Ƿōdenhelm 06:03, 9 Solmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)

[ādihtan] Request to block IP address 65.25.104.212

Has performed several pages of childish vandalism, including altering existing pages (Wed Feb 27, 2008) —Ƿōdenhelm 04:14, 28 Solmōnaþ 2008 (UTC)