Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devotional Marriage

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 16:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Devotional Marriage

Devotional Marriage (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Delete as neologism, original research. Single source provided is a blog. A Google search for "devotional marriage" finds no relevant hits. Article created by User:DevotedMan as their first, and so far only, contribution. Writing style of the article appears similar to that of the blog: for example, the use of "dominate" as an adjective. The Anome 09:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, clearly original research. Chairman S. Talk ^Contribs 10:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, neoblogochristianism. yandman 13:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - per WP:NEO and WP:NOR. Jayden54 14:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable protologism. Prolog 18:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete the usage of this term is very limited thus violating WP:NEO and most of it appears to be original research, violating WP:OR. TSO1D 20:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete absurd POV and OR article which clearly exists to link to a blog with wonderfully insightful articles such as "Why be a Submissive Wife?" This is a good blog to post on a crank.net ...Tarinth 20:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. External link seems to be to the blog of some bizzare BDSM fantasist. No evidence at all for the term being used elsewhere. Tevildo 20:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, but possibly redirect. I wonder if this should be a redirect to Covenant marriage, which is what I assumed this article would be about before I read it? Pinball22 22:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
• Valid Topic.This topic is widely practiced and discussed. Devotional Marriage (D/M) is a form of D/D marriage (D/D is a current valid topic on Wikipeda) except those engaged in D/M use love rather than discipline. The book Fascinating Womanhood, with Devotional Marriage is based has sold more than 2 million copies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DevotedMan (talk • contribs).

• If that's true, you need to source the article much better. Since you know about some of these books, it sounds like it is possible. It would not be the first time a topic went from almost unanimous deletion to 'keep' when the article became much better sourced. As it is now it looks more like an ad for your blog rather than a legitimate topic that's been noted by the media. In addition to book sources, I think you'll need to provide some sign that the news media has recognized it as a concept/term. I'll change to keep it if it can be shown that this can be well-documented with multiple independent sources (which means a couple of sources beyond those pushing the concept directly). Tarinth 15:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• • In light of the above, might a redirect to Domination and submission (BDSM) (or an appropriate equivalent) be better? Tevildo 02:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete but redirect to Covenant marriage. The burden of proof is on the article creator to provide legitimate sources that state the two things are different, and I don't see them. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 23:46, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: I see no evidence that anyone is using this term in any WP:RS verifiable way to refer to anything at all. A covenant marriage is an entirely different thing than is being proposed in this article. -- The Anome 00:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: I agree that there's perhaps no one using this term, I just thought it might make sense as a redirect. Now that I've read some of the linked websites, it seems that if they're what the article is meant to be about, then it's even more different from covenant marriage than I thought, though. I also wonder, from reading them, if there could be an article about those ideas. This article, though, doesn't seem to go conceptually with those references, even, so if there is something out there for there to be an article about, this isn't it (and apparently isn't the right name for whatever it is), so I'm still for deleting it. Pinball22 02:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Without firm sources, I'm doubtful whether this qualifies for inclusion. Possible neologism, possible synonym for other term, possibly "something made up"; on the other hand, possibly a groundswell of traditional values. An unimpeachable reference would go a long way to helping the community to decide. -- Simon Cursitor 08:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Article Improved:I have re-written the article with greater emphasis on its long established underlying principals as laid down by Helen Andelin. This topic does warrant its own entry as it does not fit with any other marriage or power exchange topic. The D/D, D/s and BDSM topics have a strong sexual and violence component which is not present in a Devotional Marriage. Equally this form of marriage due to its very traditional and conservative foundations is not defined in common law as a typical modern marriage. There is a very large following of these values within Western Society which makes this topic of interest to a wide range of people. -- User:DevotedMan 5 January 2007

• Unfortunately it is still lacking references that are encyclopedic. You need "secondary sources" (sources which provided summary and analysis) not primary sources (like the Bible, which requires interpretation) or websites that are mostly run as personal sites. Find some magazine articles (or websites with an editorial staff) that deal with the subject and use those as references. Tarinth 16:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.