Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of diss songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, no consensus. 1ne 07:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of diss songs

List of diss songs (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

I am actually neutral on this. It just had a template suggesting deletion, with no discussion (the equivalent of a time bomb). I think it deserves a fair trial before judgement is made, which is why I removed the old Proposed Deletion one and put in an AfD one. So, order in the court! Tom Danson 04:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep: A good and very helpful list of songs. I see no reason to get rid of it, "Diss Songs" is the correct term. If it isn't then someone can come up with something new to use as the title if it means that much. -- MAKAVELI x87x 09:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Well composed list, quite accurate actually! I'm just not sure if "diss songs" is the appropriate title. --Nevhood 04:57, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep: Well listed. However, it should be possibly looked through well, since some don't look "correct". --esanchez, Camp Lazlo fan! 06:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep "Diss song" is a well defined term and this list is very helpful. However, make sure no non-hip-hop songs are on it (I had to remove "You're So Vain" and "Sweet Home Alabama" a couple of months ago). JuJube 07:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • If "Diss song" is a well-defined term, can you provide some externally verifiable third-party sources for Wikipedia:Attribution purposes over at the Diss song article? -- saberwyn 08:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak keep. I think the criteria needs to be tightened up, ie, only notable records (ie, records that have been written about by independent sources) and major label releases should be in there. And of course, records that dis a vague, unnamed person or group should be disqualified, which probably comprises of 40% of all hip-hop tracks. hateless 08:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak delete. None of the entries in this list show any sources stating that the song is a "diss song". I agree with hateless that the criteria needs tightening and independant sourcing, but think that leaving this list around unsourced is worse than starting with a clean slate, clear inclusion criteria, and sourcing for all entries. -- saberwyn 09:02, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete I fail to see how this is not just a directory or catalog. Do we really need a list of every song that falls within a particular genre? I think not. Agent 86 19:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Every song is based on the editor's personal opinion and original research. There are no citations for the term "diss song" which seems to belong in urbandictionary.com. The list is just a list of loosely associated songs with no assertion of notability for themselves. And they, nor the term, are no more significant than the call-out songs and insult songs sung since way before hiphop was a musical art form. The diss song article (if it stays after some sourcing) should list only a few of the most influential, and best examples of the style. But someone who cares about the term should look into the history beyond the hiphop version. --JJLatWiki 19:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak delete the article's scope has currently exceeded the scope of diss song as defined in the article, and the song lacks sources which indicate that the specific song is a diss song.-- danntm ^T _C 22:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Delete - this is a text book example of indiscriminate information - a long list of unsourced material with little or no criteria for listing. There are absolutely no citations, making the entire thing a work of original research. If for some reason, this list is kept, then it must be slashed apart, and any song without a reliable source that categorically states that the song is indeed a "diss song against <blah>" must be removed. And that just doesn't mean "notable records" - that means that each song needs a solid reference that it belongs on this list in particular. I think you'll find when that cleanup happens, you'll end up with a trivial list with a tenth of the content it has now. If that. - CosmicPenguin (Talk) 03:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
• Lose it with fire—not a single citation from a reliable source; little more than a magnet for original research. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 18:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
• Very Strong Keep "Diss song" is a well defined term, though I disagree with JuJube: The diss song is not limited to hip-hop. fhb3 05:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)fhb3
  • I say again, if "Diss song" is a well-defined term, would you be so kind as to provide some externally verifiable third-party sources for Wikipedia:Attribution purposes over at the Diss song article? It could really use it. -- saberwyn 22:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
• Very Strong Keep It's a comprehensive list and I feel we would loose a lot by starting from scratch. Diss songs are normally documented in the media so finding sources for many shouldn't be that difficult. In my eyes it needs some specific criteria, time, effort and a notice or two to encourage the right kind of edits. The masses are more inclined to elaborate on what already exsists than to start from scratch in my opinion, hence why great articles often don't start out great. -- GQsm ^{Talk | c} 20:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

• Very Strong Keep same as above 04:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep, but have some stricter criteria. For example, does a diss song towards Bush ("Mosh" by Eminem) count as a diss song? I guess so, but if that's the case shouldn't the criteria be more solid.--Urthogie 22:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.