Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minglish

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. W.marsh 01:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minglish

Unsourced and self-contradictory. A google search (google scholar turned up nothing) on Minglish has very few hits and it seems as though they refer to Minglish as English spoken in Malta, which is much different than a pidgin or contact language. I would simply put a verify tag on the article, but everything in it seems wrong. AEuSoes1 22:24, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Legis 15:26, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep but consider renaming and definitely expanding and improving the article.

Consider this link

Here's a quote extracted from the above webpage

Broughton (1976) considers the English as used by speakers of Maltese as 'Maltese English'.

This form of speech is characterised by the influence of Maltese on English. If the influence of Maltese on English is minimal, the speech carries with it considerable esteem. If on the Other hand the influence of the mother tongue on English is great, the speech will be socially stigmatised (Borg 1986:12). Camilleri (1995a:88) remarks that "Maltese English is influenced by Maltese on all linguistic levels, namely phonology, grammar, semantics and discourse, but not on the lexical level…."

The other variety, namely Mixed Maltese English, is made up of lexical items from both languages and so involves various types of code-switching (Camilleri 1995a:88). The term 'Mixed Maltese English' was introduced by Borg (1980). Such an example of Mixed Maltese English would be the following instance of motherese:

'Tiha [kis:] il-['mami], literally, "Give-her kiss the-mummy", for "Give mummy a kiss" (Borg 1986:12).

Aquilina (1960:5) had already noticed such a mixed variety of language in Malta. He called it 'Sliema jargon' and attributed it to the feminine gender. According to Aquilina, this mixed variety of speech "is no more than a pretentious hotch potch". Gullick (1976) considers this 'Sliema jargon' Maltese English and a middle status mixture. Today, this mixture can be attributed to both genders and is spreading to almost every locality. This is an alarming fact.

The Maltese are increasingly losing their linguistic competence in both Maltese and English and are relying on a 'hotch potch' of both. Sciriha (1994:322) argues that

"If this situation persists, Malta will cease to be a bilingual nation, but will move toward monolingualism with the language spoken displaying features of both languages in contact. This will eventually give rise to some kind of Pidgin language."

--Richard 06:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Would we rename it to Maltese English? It seems that generally instances of code switching between English and another language have a -nglish name (spanglish, franglish, runglish, tagolish, etc). As simply a form of English this is non-notable (and virtually untouched in the site) but the instances of code-switching seems more relevant. AEuSoes1 08:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused and not being knowledgeable about linguistics, I'm not sure which way to go. User:Aeusoes1 seems to be arguing against renaming it to Maltese English because, as such, it would be a "non-notable form of English". User:Aeusoes1's argument seems to be to keep the article's title as Minglish. I'm inclined to agree but I'm confused by the quotations that I provided above which use the phrase "Maltese English" rather than "Minglish".

In any event, I think the article content should be kept because the topic is encyclopedic and the content is sourceable although it is currently unsourced (because the article needs to reference sources to support the assertions in it).

As I said, this is not an area of expertise for me so I would appreciate any education and enlightenment that others can provide. --Richard 16:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree (about keeping, not about your area of expertise) and I've made some edits to the article that make it less deletable. AEuSoes1 17:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

• Rename to Maltese English; a much more explicative name.--Aldux 11:22, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

How about keeping both names? I'm more familiar with the term Minglish than Maltese English. Leaving Minglish as the title and adding Maltese English in the first line of explanation. That way, either search will turn the page up. - Elaine

• Keep Definate phenomenon. JASpencer 10:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom.--Peta 04:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, —Centrx→talk • 23:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

• There seems to be source material on the subject, such as this, this, this, this, and this. There's enough to demonstrate that this idea is not original research, and is accepted (albeit argued about) in the linguistic community. Clearly there should be an encyclopaedia article. The only real question is the title. But that's not for AFD to settle. AFD's rôle is to discuss whether this subject is unverifiable or original research. I merely point out that all of the aforementioned sources call it either Maltese English or Mixed Maltese English. None of them call it Minglish. The idea that we should be somehow consistent and use an uncommon informal name (based on an equally bizarre notion that doing otherwise magically makes it a "non-notable form of English") is at odds with our Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Keep and leave the name discussion to the talk page. Uncle G 00:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep (something} at least, per Uncle G and others who've demonstrated the existence of this particular phenomenon. The sources cited here should be consulted in order to figure out if a better name should be used, but that's hardly a problem warranting deletion. BigHaz - Schreit mich an (Review me) 01:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all languages, dialects, etc. Carlossuarez46 03:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, either as Minglish or Maltese English (with the other one being a redirect). As per [1] this seems to be a real linguistic phenomenon. Themindset 18:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep as Maltese English. Ramsquire 18:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.