Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trax (IRC channel)

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Woohookitty 07:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Trax (IRC_channel)

This page essentially says "an irc channel exists." This is essentially the same thing as saying "a web forum exists". Wikipedia is not here to document the existence of every internet community ever. The topic could be mentioned in a larger Tracking article as a footnote perhaps, but this article should go.

• Delete as fluff, trivia. JoshuaRodman 20:03, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Third edit by JoshuaRodman (talk • contribs) was to list this article on VfD, series of new accounts follows. —RaD Man (talk) 01:03, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Comment I've been a user of various Wikis since 1999, and I find it ludicrous that I should need to justify myself. I'm logged in here under my natural name. I'm easily googleable, you can find my work history at SuSE, etc. You can find edits minor and discussive of mine on c2, the moin development wiki, and other such. I can't show you the logs of me reading throgh wikipedia policy, sorry! The view that this is non encyclopædic is not rooted in how many pages I've edited on Wikipedia, but rather in the obvious non-notability of this page. These bureaucratic slanderous ad-hominems are really more than I care to countenance. JoshuaRodman 07:22, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

• Delete I agree.. this doesn't have much point Oman

1st edit. Account created July 18, 2005. See: Oman (talk • contribs) —RaD Man (talk)

• Delete Also agree. An IRC channel doesn't need a Wikipedia entry. Polpo 20:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

1st edit. Account created July 18, 2005. See: Polpo (talk • contribs) —RaD Man (talk)

Add me to those angry at the sock puppet accusations. I have been "zsazs" on #trax for over ten years, was at the reunion, met RaD Man, and was interviewed by him. The fact that I created an account speaks that I am willing to stand by my opinion on deleting this entry. The channel in question as a whole obviously finds itself not wanting to be on Wikipedia. There are no other IRC channels that I can find on Wikipedia. The #trax Wikipedia entry is certainly a vanity article, albeit created by someone not within the regular community. Polpo 21:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Non-encyclopædic, non-notable. It's also difficult to corroborate the channel history. -- dr 20:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. — Stevey7788 (talk) 21:23, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Informative and NPOV. This particular community tends to congregate in one specific place and has a unique history worthy of documentation. Sock puppet limit has been reached. —RaD Man (talk) 04:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

See talk page for response to Sock puppet accusation. JoshuaRodman 19:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC) See below.

Informativeness and NPOV are not disputed, and the article would be suitable as an external reference from Tracker, MOD (file format), or Demoscene. But it is not notable or encyclopædic in its own right. -- dr 19:41, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

• Delete notability not established. JamesBurns 08:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. An IRC channel where a couple dozen old friends talk to each other isn't an encyclopedic topic. Also, the above votes from first-editors are from people in the channel, which unanimously does not want to be in Wikipedia. I hope that's worth something. Foobaz·o< 19:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

*Merge as minor note into broader article. Some data belongs in a bigger article about mod or demoscene. Rad Man's claims of sock puppets are massively unfounded, offensive and rude. He has met most of us in person and interviewed us with his camcorder at T10Y. —RedPenguin 19:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

1st and only edit, not so unfounded. See: RedPenguin (talk • contribs) —RaD Man(talk)

Sure it was my first edit, that doesn't make me a sock puppet. At the very MOST it would make me a "meat puppet", if I didn't actually have some knowledge/relevance to this topic, which I do. Additionally, YOU INTERVIEWED ME ON CAMERA, Radman, therefore you should understand I exist. Would it help prove that I am not a sock puppet if I took a picture of myself with a sign so you could compare to the Trax 10 years pictures that it's me? Have you considered visiting scene.net #trax and talking to us to see that we're quite real? —RedPenguin 21:08, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

• Delete— After reviewing the timeline and the rest of the information on the page again I found it of not only questionable correctness (which I attempted to address) but of striking irrelevance. Therefore, I am changing my vote to delete. While an article on a community can be worthwhile, (consider The WELL) that is generally if the community itself generated or offered something of relevance. In this case, while many members of the community were computer musicians of some note, the community itself had overall little impact as anything other than a place where people chatted. Therefore the history of the channel is of no general interest, and instead, individual trackers should be considered in the context of a tracking article. If the argument can be made that #trax DID contribute something, then that should be the content of the trax article and not irrelevant information about schisms or the nationality of regulars. RedPenguin 22:12, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, an IRC channel would have to be truly exceptional to be notable. Dcarrano 17:14, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
• Comment, this discussion is not being helped by you Rad Man.
  1. You should be clearly indicating your bias as the author of the page.
  2. You are accusing these voters of being Sock Puppets, which is clearly defined as indicating pretend existances created solely by a single person for the purpose of falsely magnifying or hiding their influence. Since you are fully aware of the individual existence of each of these people, see for example: pictures of them taken at one of the events mentioned on the very article under discussion, you are either misusing terminology or simply lying. (Incidentally note RadMan's clear presence at the event.)
  3. I specifically went and read the voting policy before mentioning this vote to the sources which were used in the creation of this article. The policy makes no mention of voting being reserved for users or longstanding users. It makes a suggestion that it is better for the votes to be from logged in users. As a result I recommended to these people that they might want to create accounts. The rationale behind this suggestion in the voting guidelines was not given, so I was not able to surmise that it is "wrong" to vote as a new or non-user. In fact, the text rather suggests the opposite.
  4. These are not irrelevant humans who have no relation to this article. They are the sources who populated this article. As such they are the experts on this information, more so than you, the article author. The sources of your information, the actual experts on the topic, believe that the information is trivial and non-encyplopædic. They are weighing in with this opinion. I believe this is relevant.

JoshuaRodman 07:22, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: I've created a user account for myself so you all would know who I am, know me as a relatively long-standing member of the #trax community, and not have to refer to me by IP address. As such I've reverted RadMan's comment re: the fifth edit associated with the IP, since I'm proud to say that the edits here are my first. I offer that the scant record of our collective previous contributions to Wikipedia is immaterial to the discussion. RadMan is well aware of the individuals contributing here, so all that's proven by mentioning our edit records is that we care enough about this topic to chime in. I feel that RadMan has done more to demonstrate his assumption that the very members of the community he strives to document are not acting in good faith here, than to demonstrate any concrete reasoning why the #trax entry conforms to Wikipedia's content guidelines. In particular: why should Wikipedia's admins consider this material is encyclopædic or notable? -- dr 18:15, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
• Merge should be filed under IRC or tracker or something; not a standalone subject. but really I don't understand what the fuss is about. who cares? radman, you're hardly even in #trax these days, I see nothing from you on the traxstats page in the last 16 days, so obviously you don't either. what am I missing? -- Tfinn

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.