Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yacht rock

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was restore redirect after disregarding several sock/meatpuppet votes. (ESkog)^(Talk) 22:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yacht rock

I'm nominating this article (and related categories and templates) for deletion: see Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms and Wikipedia:No original research. Also see especially Wikipedia:Avoid neologisms#Reliable sources for neologisms for Wikipedia's position on avoiding new phrases that have no independent explanation in established research. Perhaps some of the explanation of this topic can be moved to Yacht Rock (show), although it appears the show itself may not meet the criteria in Wikipedia:Notability (web). So that you can see how I arrived at this: I started looking for how notable "marina rock" was, and it turns out that searching for "marina rock" doesn't even show the phrase itself in normal use until positions 36 and 37 on Google. (This itself is a strong hint that it doesn't meet Wikipedia notability guidelines, in my opinion.) #36 is a MySpace user profile. #37 - "Marina Rock finally mentioned, still no credit to Jimmy." is where it starts to get interesting. The article is about how these terms were starting to get mainstream coverage. Note the topic. Now that post links to this article: "Talk Talk: J.D. Ryznar", Seattle Weekly, 2005-12-07. First words in the interview from J.D. Ryznar, the producer of Yacht Rock (emphasis mine):

J.D. Ryznar: I've always fantasized about what it was like being guys making music back then—certainly a freer time, and the boats looked like they were fun to be on. I came up with the term "yacht rock," but Hunter [Stair], who plays Kenny Loggins, and Dave Lyons, who plays [soft-rock impresario] Koko, have their own term: "Marina rock," as in Marina del Ray [where Yacht Rock takes place]. So we compromised: Yacht rock had to do with the more elite studio artists.

That is the creator of the show saying explicitly that "yacht rock" and "marina rock" were intentionally coined phrases for the show. So now that one knows that its a neologism, one looks for independent research to see if it's widespread or at least has independent research somewhere else. I can't find any independent research. This article appears to be original research in the Wikipedia sense of the term, which is a no-no. If it is not original, then, lacking any independent sources, it appears to be speculation, which is an even bigger no-no. In addition, nearly all mentions of the terms "yacht rock" and "marina rock" on Wikipedia come from an edit streak in the last 48 hours by a User:Fernandobouregard, including creation of "yacht rock" categories. --Closeapple 05:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because they will be unused if this article is deleted:

• Template:Yacht rock

--Closeapple 06:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

So, with that:

• Delete - possibly "introduces original ideas" or "defines new terms" (WP:NOR); certainly "introduces or uses neologisms, without attributing the neologism to a reputable source" (WP:NOR); and has not "been repeatedly and independently reported in newspapers or news stories" (WP:NOR). --Closeapple 05:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• delete - Per nom. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adambiswanger1 (talk • contribs).
• Delete WP:NOR per Closeapple Crazynas 12:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete delete also Category:Yacht rock albums --Emc² (CONTACT ME) 13:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, original research. --Terence Ong 15:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Restore to previous version and redirect Yacht Rock (show) here. This article was fine when it contained both concepts, and I previously argued against the separation. The term on its own is not necessarily notable as far as the music is concerned on its own, but the two combined makes for a fully appropriate article. "Yacht rock" is definitely notable, as demonstrated through Google results (and news articles), but the term itself has everything to do with the show. -- ChrisB 16:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Restored/Redirect Per ChrisB. OhNoitsJamie^Talk 22:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep --Radiozilla 02:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Restore and redirect, per ChrisB. TheJC ^Talk_{Contributions} 18:44, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and you people really need to get a life. It's pathetic that people waste time trying to delete a page on Wikipedia. Grow up. Aaronproot

And you wasted time voting for a keep for what reason?Damiancorrigan 11:52, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - revise to standards. Lordwow 02:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Keep Keep How else can you summarize the smooth grooves and beautiful vocals from the late 1970s? Must we always suffer at the hands of rockin' beats and primal screams!?! SAVE YACHT ROCK --- KEEP THE FIRE! lml6 08:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, per original reasons. Tychocat 13:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete with either a redirect (and mention) on soft rock, or redirect to the show. Damiancorrigan 11:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, It is relevent. Hollywood Steve is a credible source. --Psycho78m 16:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
• Keep granted it's a new word, but it sums up that particular soft rock sound perfectly.--elisaparish 22.03 1 June 2006
• Keep because even though it's a new word, it aptly summarizes a specific genre & time period of music.--Theoreticalgirl 15.203 2 June 2006
• Keep - perhaps a neologism, but it does vividly sum up a recognizable genre of music, for which no other popular name exists. Furthermore, the article does offer a concise and factually solid introduction to the genre - it isn't just a plug for the show or its inside jokes, and even as a fan of the show I actually learned things here. I would say the "marina rock" discussion should go, though, since it rambles considerably and seems to definitely belong to the inside joke category. Keep the reference to the ancient Usenet use of "Yacht Rock" in reference to Jimmy Buffett, though. If anything this article could stand to be a little more elaborate, perhaps with some quotes from old reviews to give a context to the "critically despised" theme. Robotsarered 04:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• restore/redirect/(re)merge and wait to see if the term extends beyond the show. I cannot agree with those wishing to delete for a couple of reasons. First, the term is the name of the show, so in the very least it deserves a (re)merge, redirect, or restore but not a delete. Second, the term is defined by various sources (granted, in the context of the show) such as SFWeekly, InsideNOVA and the host Steve Huey, a contributor for allMusic. Deletion would be an overzealous reaction, and would make it harder for someone searching for an understanding of the term "Yacht Rock". Ektar 17:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
• keep/restore/redirect/(re)merge --Jdryznar 19:00, 5 June 2006 (UTC) here are links to articles mentioning the term Yacht Rock out of the context of the show: New York Times, March 9, 2006, IGN Music, May 30, 2006, Los Angeles Times, May 27, 2006, Eye Weekly, Toronto, Canada, May 25, 2006, Entertainment Weekly, May 23, 2006, Entertainment Weekly, May 19, 2006. More mentions are popping up on major blogs and papers weekly. note: I am the creator of the show, which I do not make for profit. I have nothing to do with this Wikipedia entry for the show or the term. The entry popped up months ago, created by an unknown author, and I keep tabs on it to help make sure all the facts are accurate. Whether this hurts or helps the argument, the fact is, the term is out there now in the cultural lexicon, and people need a place to go to find out what it means. This Wikipedia entry is satisfactory in the definition of the term. If this is a "neologism" and breaks the rules of Wikipedia, at the very least a breif definition of the term should be redirected to the entry about the internet show, which, for the record, closeapple, has been rightfully and easily cleared of the notablility concern. Hopefully the links I've provided can help you editors begin to filter out the original research and clean up the entry to closeapple's satisfaction. And save the fact that Yacht Rock is a new term, these links (as well as the fact the internet show has been written up by Reuters, AP, Spin, Entertainment Weekly, Newsweek, and the LA Times) certainly disprove the arguments for deletion at the top of the list.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.