Talk:Aspartame/Archive

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Gulf War Syndrome

Why has the section on the alleged link between aspartame consumption and Gulf War Syndrome been deleted from this page and from GWS's own page? -Unknown

Wish I knew who wrote this :p So... any takers on this guy's question? How are they linked? Isn't Gulf War Syndrome some kind of shellshock? I can't see how these would be linked in the slightest... Tyciol 05:05, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Gulf War Syndrome is not shell shock, mah friend. It's caused by a mixture of Anthrax vaccine and other drugs which were administered to the troops. The troops refused to take these when the information got out. Throwing the stocks away. Could aspartame have some relation, well that is not impossible as there could be a metabolic reaction at cause, it's worth looking into.

Suggest revision of "Health Effects"

While researching the chemical for a school project, I came across many articles about Aspartame.There were biased testimonials, large amounts of NutraSweet propaganda, falsified reports, andextremist rantings. Of the sources I collected, these stood out as the ones with the best scientific evidence and purity:

http://www.aspartametruth.com/arizona.html An abstract made from the studies of Woodrow C. Monte, Ph.D., R.D. at the University of Arizona. He proves that Aspartame is toxic because of its biproduct methanol, a known toxin.
http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/100.html Statistical evidence questioning the validity of experimental tests done on the safety of Aspartame.
http://www.dorway.com/wurtman1.html Study with experimental evidence by Timothy J. Maher from the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Richard J. Wurtman from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
http://health.centreforce.com/health/aspartame.html "The Nancy Markle Letter";The creed of all anti-Aspartame activists around the globe. Although serverly against Aspartame in every aspect it is worth the read for the plausible evidence the writer gives.Philologus8 16:34, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That's funny that you post only websites that are anti-aspartame. Haha. Couppawn 22:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Supposedly, if you support it, you must be biased :p These new-age health guys have agendas of their own, make no mistake, and natural isn't as great as everyone makes it seem. Tyciol 05:08, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Activist role of Betty Martini (Markle)

New here. Why isn't the significant role of Betty Martini dealt with here, or has it been done already? She is the single most significant character of the whole debate (the one who has pretty much single handedly started it), since all web sources against Aspartame lead back to ONE single source - Betty Martini, and that's a pretty significant matter! To ignore her role would be a rather significant piece of revisionism (or whitewashing.....)

Ignoring her would be like discussing Christianity without mentioning Jesus or the Apostle Paul, or like discussing chiropractic without mentioning DD Palmer or BJ Palmer. Absurd!

One cannot deal properly with an activist based movement without mentioning the activists. -- Fyslee 21 Dec. 2005

My concern would be that the article (if one is not careful) could become more about personalities and less about the scientific research, clinical findings, case histories, history, chemistry, etc. Once personalities are brought into it, there is a danger of attaching overly-glowing or overly-negative labels to their work. In addition, I would be very concerned if mention of any groups/persons (pro or con) was in some way linked to scientific findings (unless they actually conducted the research). Finally, there are other groups and persons on each side of the issue that would probably be mentioned and who have been involved far longer than Betty Martini, abeit not as active (e.g., Robert H. Moser, MD; Mary Nash Stoddard; James Turner; Richard Wurtman). Many of the best web sites lead to sources such as scientific literature citations, articles by scientists or physicians, or organizations. There are many sites that list her and her organization probably because she is very, very active on this issue. Perhaps a non-judgemental list of personalities on both sides of the issue could be put in a category below the Recently Published Research. What do you think? Twoggle 22:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I like your idea about a list. A knowledge of the personalities involved is important when studying any matter that can be categorized as a scare story (and this one certainly counts!), regardless of the scientific evidence for or against the story. History will then judge them as wise or foolish. They must not be forgotten, otherwise we may be doomed to repeat their folly, or, on the positive side, we may learn from their wisdom. -- Fyslee 22 Dec. 2005

1-10-06 Betty Martini who uses a Dr. in front of her name is not an actual Doctor. She got a Honorable Humantities degree from a diploma mill. She mis-leads people using this phony Dr. in front of her name, giving people the impression she is a Doctor, when she is not.

The most concise well written and researched article on the ill health effects of aspartame is written by columnist, David Lawrence Dewey. http://www.dldewey.com/aspar.htm. Furthermore, contrary to belief, it was not Ms. Martini who first alerted consumers to the deadly health effects of aspartame. It was Mary Stoddard and Attorney Jim Turner in Washington and columnist David Lawrence Dewey.

Add POV check template

I've added the POV check template since User:DamnDirtyApe has some POV issues with the following paragraph: A large body of scientific evidence suggests that aspartame, even in amounts many times greater than typical consumption, is safe and not associated with adverse health effects. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has investigated claims of ill effects since 1982 and maintains that there is no reasonable evidence of possible public health harm and no consistent or unique patterns of symptoms reported with respect to aspartame that can be causally linked to its use. [1]. User:DamnDirtyApe wants to remove this content but I don't see any need for removal. --Viriditas | Talk 00:50, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

It is necessary for us to note that hundreds of studies have failed to link aspartame with health problems in humans. Since this paragraph is copied from an activist web site it should be rewritten, but the sentiment is correct. Rhobite 20:03, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Chestnut regarding "biowarfare"

I have an issue regarding this sentence: "The Pentagon once listed aspartame in an inventory of prospective biochemical warfare weapons submitted to Congress." Can anyone present a source on this? I doubt it, because it is absurd on its face. Can you imagine this conversation? "General, we've found the perfect weapon... you just spray it on the enemy, wait 20 years, and they might die of brain tumors." I'm going to remove it until someone can come up with a source on it. The Hokkaido Crow 20:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

What Century do you live in? Just write 'aspartame Pentagon' into Google and find it yourself, there are thousands of results; I'm not going to present them here, just do it and find yourself... For the second part of your assertion, I can't believe you are being serious on that.

Yes, there are lots of web sites with the same claim, often in the very same words. But what is the basis for the claim? Who brought this fact, if it is a fact, to light, and what were their sources? In particular, is it verifiable? How can we tell the difference between truth and urban legend? Shimmin 19:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

"What Century do you live in? Just write 'aspartame Pentagon' into Google and find it yourself, there are thousands of results; I'm not going to present them here, just do it and find yourself..."

No go. The burden of proof is on the claimant. That's the rules of the game, whether it's logic, debate, or science. You are making an unusual claim and you must present the evidence for this conspiracy theory. Until then no one is obligated to give it the time of day, much less use it as any kind of "evidence":

Fallacy: Shifting the Burden of Proof Fyslee 11:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Background of FDA approval issues

Re: the "NPOV"ing of this article, I find it now highly-biased in a whitewashing direction. The two linked studies say nothing about cancer; one has no results, and the other is about secondary, behavioral symptoms.

Also, i'm dissatisfied with the revisions made based on the FDA's talking points. The "concerns" voiced were a little stronger than that: all three board members voted to reject aspartame until more convincing data on brain tumors was presented and reviewed, because the existing evidence presented, rather than demonstrating safety, tended to show the opposite.

Then, a review board of five was appointed to go over the PBOI's findings. Three of them also expressed serious concerns; the review board was then expanded to include a sixth member, but the deadlock was unresolved.

It was at this point that Arthur Hull Hayes stepped in and approved the drug, in direct contravention to the recommendations of the public board AND half the review board. There was never any scientific approval of aspartame, AND some of the reviewers later stated they would have demanded much more stringent standards if they had known that aspartame was intended for soft drinks.

So, I think this history belongs in this article, because it really, really, really sucks when the FDA pushes through a dangerous substance, and I can't see why we should leave it out. As to the study Hayes references, i haven't seen it, but I'd sure like to - where is it? I'm sure the review boards would have liked to see it, as well - why circumvent the process and ignore the scientists? Graft 21:03, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Shall we have separate headings for arguments for and against?

Perhaps it would be best to have a separate headings for arguments for and against. There is some good information here: http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/fraud.htm Also at www.aspartame.ca I may make some minor changes with proper documentation eventually.Carltonh 23:33, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Regarding the RICO lawsuit

RICO complaint filed 2004 Sep 15 in US District Court Northern CA by member of National Justice League. Defendants NutraSweet Co, Robert H. Moser, American Diabetes Association, Monsanto, and 50 "Does" PR · the complaint May be interesting to watch. 142.177.18.183 14:34, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I changed the page to say a RICO lawsuit was filed. "RICO charges were filed" makes it sound like the government took action, which is not the case here. It's a private lawsuit, so saying a "lawsuit was filed" is more accurate. -Drew

Diane Fleming story

At some point Diane Fleming's plight should get on WP.[2][3] (Supposedly she poisoned her aspartame-guzzling husband with window-washing fluid ... but the only window-washing-fluid chemical found was methanol.) 142.177.24.144 20:14, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

1-10-06: There is an error in the comment under Diane Fleming story. The methanol found in the Gatorade was NEVER proven to come from the windshield wiper. For a a current update on Diane's Fleming's case, read this article on columnist, David Lawrence Dewey website. http://www.dldewey.com/fleming.htm

1-10-06: Also, there is additional more accurate information regarding the deadly sweetener Aspartame on Mr. Dewey's website at: http://www.dldewey.com/aspar.htm

Mercola link

I'm sorry but it is hard to call the Mercola.com link junk science. That site is made by a team of licensed doctors and is the #1 ranked natural health website, and always in the top 10 of all health websites per Alexa. I'm adding the link back, though NPOVing the description. Please stop wiki vandalism. We can list opinions and links pro and con separately, but don't assume to eliminate the highly rated professional opinions Carltonh 18:30, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have to agree that the Mercola website is pretty junky. It tends to write pretty uncritically about anything that attacks what it wants to attack. Credentials are pretty meaningless as well - M.D.s are easy to come by, don't let authority fool you. Especially when it's there to peddle wares rather than to be purely informative. Graft 20:44, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

First off, please don't accuse me of vandalism. Second- Mercola is junk science. This is on his aspartame "references" page, a page that is supposed to link to controlled studies. Instead it contains paragraphs such as this [4]: "Nutra-Sweet + MSG = Brain damage in children = Behavior disorders = crime= perceived control necessity = totalitarian surveillance and control. Mind control is a reptilian paradigm." I did hesitate to remove the link, because it is still an example of anti-aspartame reasoning, and I think people should be allowed to come to their own conclusions. However it should not be presented as legitimate research - it's pure conjecture, by someone who by the way, is a practitioner of osteopathic medicine, not an MD.

A note, I moved this discussion into its own header on this talk page. Rhobite 00:54, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Jennifer Cohen Study

I located an interesting article Aspartame Nutrasweet Study done by an 11 year old girl as grade six school science project. She found that the aspartame in soda-pop degraded into diketopiperazine over time (time was greatly reduced as the storage temperature was increased). Google searches on diketopiperazine return numerous studies and references to articles concerning this brain tumor causing agent.

Anti-aspartame personal anecdote

Aspartame UNSAFE: I drank diet coke for 20 years and suffered from extreme obesity, depression, memory loss, carbohydrate cravings, severe anxiety. I had terrible allergies every summer, and a terrible cough every winter. My doctor knew I drank diet coke but said nothing, instead suggesting I get my sinuses busted open by surgery to aid in sinus draining!

All the problems stopped when I finally swore off diet coke, and all aspartame products.

Aspartame, Acesulfide-K, and Neotame are TERRIBLY dangerous, and I recommend that everyone cut it from their diets immediately. (unsigned)

Note: obviously this writer confuses acesulfame-k and aspartame. They are completely unrelated chemical compounds.

Note: Eating large sums of food and not working out causes obesity. Calorie intake - calories used = net weight gain/loss. Fatty. Couppawn 22:03, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Aspartame UNSAFE REBUTTAL: Correlation does not necessarily mean causation and the plural of ancedote is not data.

To put it another way, anecdotal evidence is not science. -WCFrancis 21:53, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps the depression, carbohydrate cravings, and severe anxiety were the result of the severe obesity, which you attempted to fix with the diet coke.

Of course, that would be a good theory if the GP did indeed lose weight when the symptoms stopped. Otherwise it is just speculation, and nor more valid that the original post. njh 03:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Quantify Sweetness

I've heard the "sweeter than" quote before, but how is sweetness quantified? Are there sources to back up that claim? On an unrelated note, I think a few of the posters should check out Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, espeically before posting for the first time. Kanadier 05:24 UTC 9 Mar 2005

Out of my area of knowledge, but does this help you?: Basic_taste#Sweetness --bodnotbod 07:42, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks it did help, although I still have a few questions, anyone a food chemist? --Kanadier 14:35 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm not a food chemist, but I may be able to help. What questions do you have?

Darrien 21:34, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)

I think the methodology is similar to the Scoville scale for measuring hotness of peppers, but I'm not a food chemist. Zwilson 00:47, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

The claims of sweetness on the artificial sweetener aticles do not line up.

yes that is true mwahahah

And it will always be true since the relative sweetness of two substances depends on concentration. You might prepare solutions a solution of A, and a solution of B that is ten times more concentrated, and find them equally sweet, and say that A is ten times sweeter than B. But if you diluted both solutions by an equal amount, they might no longer be equally sweet. The response of the tongue to different sweeteners is nonlinear in different ways. Shimmin 13:01, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

artificial sweetener articles

I just read all of the articles in wikipedia on artificial sweeteners, and I think it's crap that these articles stand as 'facts'. It's like big industry hired Goebbels to write in wikipedia for them.

Well, if you have proof, edit the articles yourself. Just remember the rules on spoonfeeding and NPOV. --Joe Sewell 30 June 2005 16:15 (UTC)

Health effects

I am concerned that the section "Purported health effects" especially the last bit is very POV. FIrst off the heading should probbly be "Health Effects" as the word "Purported" means commonly put forth or accepted as true on inconclusive grounds[5] which is making a bit of a conclusion about an issue that is contentious. The rest of the section contenus in the same vein and the last two paragraphs are taken almost verbatem from the link it refrences at the end (as number 7). The link in question goes to a site called www.aspartamearchives.org which can reasonably be concidered POV. The section implies by its tone and heading that such thigns as allergic reactions or other minor or major reactions to aspartame are myths. I would actually like to see specific studies refrenced in this section as possible. I don't think that it causes cancer or anythign like that but as someone who consistently gets sever headaches after consuming aspartame as well as cramps and diarrhea if I consume larger quanties, I would like to see the article take a more balanced view of the possibilities. Dalf | Talk 8 July 2005 05:44 (UTC)

Well, there is a possibility that Aspartame will make the sun explode. But like the other "possibilities", no studies have conclusively and repeatably backed them up. That's why they are purported, not confirmed. Our only responsibility is to make sure that the various facts appear in a balanced form, not that we have equal parts of fact and crazy talk. I'm sorry for your medical conditions, but consider that you may have been consuming other things than aspartame, like caffeine or the wrong sorts of food for your body. The Hokkaido Crow 21:14, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Paraphrase with quotes?

In 2005, researchers with the Cancer Research Centre in Italy reported that "aspartame caused a dose-related statistically significant increase in lymphomas and leukaemias in female rats at dose levels near those of human exposure, however no statistically significant increase in malignant brain tumors was observed".

This text was paraphrased from the article, "Aspartame induces lymphomas and leukaemias in rats" in Eur. J. Oncol. [6] I'm not sure it requires quotes as the original text reads: "...In this report we present the first results showing that aspartame, in our experimental conditions, causes a statistically significant, dose-related increase in lymphomas and leukaemias in females. No statistically significant increase in malignant brain tumours was observed among animals from the treated groups as compared to controls...In our experimental conditions, it has been demonstrated, for the first time, that APM causes a dose-related statistically significant increase in lymphomas and leukaemias in females at dose levels very near those to which humans can be exposed...". I'll try and fix it. --Viriditas | Talk 11:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

External links

How do people feel about removing overtly biased sites and keeping the most neutral links? --Viriditas | Talk 12:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Taste

User:GRAHAMUK writes: There is substantial anecdotal evidence that some find the taste of Aspartame very unpleasant. It is thought that this taste response could be genetic in nature, but so far no studies have been done. While this effect has been noted, there is no suggestion of a link between finding the taste unpleasant and any other health effects.

I don't think this is worded correctly. I'm sure you're aware of the policy against original research. Some related studies, like Chem Senses. 1998 Feb;23(1):59-66 and J Am Diet Assoc. 1984 Sep;84(9):1020-2 have been done. Although I could be wrong, the phenomenon appears to be related to the sensation of sweetness, not to Aspartame itself. --Viriditas | Talk 04:02, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Aspartame Crusade

It seems there are many people on an artificial sweetener crusade. I find the articles on artificial sweeteners here to be informative and nothing else. The people that are claiming this article is biased are in fact themselves biased. Doing a search on the internet, I found endless pages on aspartame filled with no usefull information other than they hated aspartmae. Wikipedia was the only place with any usefull information. I read of all the suffering people who stopped taking aspartmae and are instantly cured of all their problems. That of course would not happen if aspartame is so dangerous. The effects would linger for years. If you think it's bad, don't use it. Any article that states don't use it is biased. I don't want to read about an FDA conspiracy, or and FAA cover-up when reading about a sweetnener. Sugar causes far more illnesses than any artificial sweetener. Anything replacing it should just be an impovement. Thanku4playing

Couldn't have said it better myself. As a sidenote, classifying methanol as a "poison" is somewhat of a misnomer, as it may cause people to associate it with commonly known poisons such as cyanide or strychnine (i.e. causing death with a small fraction of a gram). Such a comparison is very misleading. Yes, methanol is considered "poisonous", but mainly because of its association with adulterated alcoholic beverages. Drinking a beverage adulterated with methanol, thinking it is ethanol, could prove dangerous or fatal. However, tens or hundreds of grams of methanol are being consumed in such a situation. The fraction-of-a-gram quantity of methanol produced through aspartame metabolism is much too low to show even threshold effects. Poisons such as cyanides or strychnine can kill with doses of less than a gram, but methanol requires substantially higher doses to even show toxicity.

Also, people are so concerned with the toxic potential of food products or additives should note that coffee contains several chemicals that are known carcinogens. Why isn't there a similar "coffee crusade?". Is the popularity of coffee yet another FDA conspiracy meant to harm the American public? 68.34.8.206

When someone has health problems, there is a natural tendency to place blame. The anti-corporate lobby has capitalized on this, and succeeded in exaggerating (or fabricating) the dangers of many things: Aspartame, proximity to power lines, proximity to nuclear power plants, milk and other animal products, dental fillings, thimerosal, GMO, etc. The list continues to grow, perpetuated by junk science. While Wikipedia should report that many people believe aspartame is the devil incarnate, the fact remains that it has never been correlated with an increased risk of cancer or other health problems in humans. Rhobite 06:10, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

People are too quick to dismiss dangers as "junk science." Many of the claims against GMO's, chemtrails, DU, rBGH, etc are quite valid. And if anything is "junk science" it is corporate-sponsored studies that are designed (or fudged) to provide positive results. Look at rBGH! FOX's Jean Akre and Steve Wilson uncovered studies linking it to illnesses. Monsanto got FOX to offer the reporters a bribe to drop the story, bribed to alter the story to report the opposite results; when they refused they were fired. They sued the network and won! Obviously the rBGH reports were true. And then FOX appeals and the judges don't even hear the case; they dismiss it and claim that FOX News has the right to lie! (see: http://www.foxbghsuit.com/bgh5.htm or the movie "The Corporation."

"Paranoid junk science" is clearly outweighed on these matters by corporate propaganda. And these corporate ties--Donald Rumsfeld with Searle, for example--between the business and political elites give the companies a very good motive for releasing dangerous products: make money selling the problem, then make money selling the antidote (weight loss products, pharmaceuticals, etc).

I found this page because I know about aspartame already an I accidentally purchased a bottle of something with Acesulfame Potassium and Sucralose in it, and after poking around the web for awhile, I'm not going to take any chances. This drink also contains something called "chromium nicotinate." Fat chance! User:Adam

Dude, chromium nicotinate is a source of chromium, which is an important nutrient. That drink was mineral-fortified. ~~ N (t/c) 20:34, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, Acesulfame-K and Sucralose are completely different chemicals than aspartame. You might as well be saying "I know all about X because I purchased a can of something with Y and Z!"

Methanol as natural endogenous substance

is there a source for this "methanol as a natural metabolic product" claim? I've been googling for one but keep running into methanol as metabolic product of aspartame only.

And there's another aspect to the methanol claims. Proaspartamers say you get comparable servings of methanol from, say, oranges or tomato juice. Antiaaspartamers point out that those sources always have ethanol too, in far greater quantities, and the ethanol occupies the metabolic pathways that make methanol into nastier stuff (formic acid, formaldehyde) long enough for the methanol to be expelled (via lungs and kidneys). But there's no ethanol associated with aspartame.[7] So, unless you always mix your diet sodas...

Take a look at this: Methanol--Slicky 20:44, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

- You mean the ethanol therapy? interesting =) 142.177.24.144 20:14, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Both these sites were unavailable, Aug 2005. Significant, or not?

links to reputable scientific orgs removed

I propose we compare orgs that support/oppose aspartame. This way the reader can choose who he chooses to believe.
(Unsigned edit by User:69.143.16.37)

Please see WP:MoS regarding external links and WP:NPOV as to how simple volume of arguments is important.
Please don't add large lists of red-links, it encourages the creation of sub-stubs.

brenneman ^(t)^(c) 01:20, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

If your only dispute is with the number of links, I will choose five and reinsert them. As for style, this is already the end of the article so the list does not interfere with the flow of the article. Deal?

Btw - what's wrong with red links? My understanding is that they encourage the growth of wikipedia by encouraging users to create new articles.

Quoting from WP:NPOV "If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;

If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;

If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small (or vastly limited) minority, it doesn't belong in Wikipedia (except perhaps in some ancillary article) regardless of whether it's true or not; and regardless of whether you can prove it or not"

The issue with aspartame is that it is an argument of "prominent" adherents vs opponents with little to no credibility. Naming these promiment adherents shines some light on the quality of the people arguing for a certain side. I acknowledge that being new to wikipedia I am not familiar with the wikipedia "style". However I believe that these links are too important to be hidden in the final "external links" section. So instead of removing them please relocated them to a place you see as more appropriate.

Nir - 02:07, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Please use tildas ~~~~ to sign and date your edits, thanks.
And thanks for your prompt response. If we look at the links that already exist with the link guidelines in mind, there are already several that should be removed. Additionally, The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has investigated... implies a quote with it's use of italics, and if a source for that quote cannot be produced it should be removed.

As to red-links, a quick browse of new pages will show people need no encouragement! ^_^

brenneman ^(t)^(c) 01:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Since the paragraph begins with "A large body of scientific evidence suggests..." it doesn't make sense to only leave that one FDA study example. Four supporting arguments by well known non-contraversial household names can only incrase the quality of this article and add some much needed perspective to the issue at hand.

The truth is that i've been back and forth on aspartame and these links caused me to side with the "pro-aspartame". Therefore I think that an article without these links is failing to properly inform its readers. These organizations are credible precisely because they don't build their entire existence around aspartame and have no reason to fradualently back it. Why would these organizations sacrifice decades of credibility for such a trivial issue? It is like suggesting that "Mom and Pop's plan was to move into the neighborhood...establish trust...for 48 years. And then, run off with Jerry's sneakers." (You should get that reference :)

Nir - 02:07, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Remove POV check template

I believe we can remove the POV check template. After several weeks, it appears that some of the POV contention has disappeared (or at least the contenders). Of course we cannot settle the Aspartame dispute here, but we can at least represent it accurately. IMO the most notable thing about this product is the fear and suspicion many people have about it (founded or unfounded). I have done some rewriting in a way that I think neutrally separates what is known vs. what is believed about this product, along with the reasons. The Hokkaido Crow 14:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

NPOV & Accuracy Discussion

I believe that the article, perhaps well-meaning, is inadvertently written almost competely from the point of view of the manufacturer of aspartame as opposed to a NPOV. The trick is to consult people who are intimately familiar with the research (as opposed to reading a few summaries) and who are not and have not been funded by sources that would raise of conflict of interest. Because this tact was apparently not taken, there are quite a few provably inaccurate and irrelevent statements in the article as well as a reliance on sources with anywhere from zero to little scientific expertise in the area. I will provide a few examples of inaccuracies and non-NPOV:

1) "It has been suggested that aspartame might be a neurotoxin [5] since one of its labile chemical components is methanol. This, however, is impossible due to the small concentration of aspartame in products. Methanol is naturally found in fresh fruits and vegetables in quantities several orders of magnitude higher than those found in a soft drink, and occurs endogenously as a part of normal human metabolism."

This argument was raised by the manufacturer in the early 1980's, but was addressed by independent research in 1984 (over 20 years ago) by showing that these traditionally-ingested substances contain protective factors preventing the conversion of methanol into formaldehyde to any significant extent. Since then, European research has shown that small ingestions of aspartame lead to the accumulation of formaldehyde bound to protein and DNA in the brain, liver, kidneys and other parts of the body -- something that does not happen with fruits and vegetables. In addition, one way researchers worsen the effects of formaldehyde in animal experiments is to give a free-form excitotoxic amino acid (40% of aspartame). None of this research is referenced, discussed and there are no comments from independent scientists about these studies. Therefore, the "impossible" neurotoxicity is both inaccurate and non-NPOV as it only presents the manufacturer's argument from the early 1980's.

2) "Questions about aspartame frequently revolve around concerns of health conditions that are allegedly caused by the sweetener, including headaches, seizures, allergic reactions, changes in mood or behavior, and symptoms similar to multiple sclerosis. Indeed, an e-mail has been circulating since 1998, claiming to be from a lecturer at an international conference on aspartame risks, listing various symptoms supposedly caused by the chemical. This email has generally been dismissed as inaccurate, and there is no evidence that such a conference or other events recounted in the email actually occurred, according to Snopes, a site which debunks urban legends. [7]"

There are numerous studies -- independent and industry studies related to aspartame and headaches/migraines, seizures, FMS, depression, allergic-like reactions, etc. None of these are discussed and mentioned except for one 20-day manufacturer-sponsored study. Snopes is the worst place to go for scientific information since the authors (computer programmer and housewife) have no scientific expertise and no knowledge of research related to aspartame. In fact, they did not even take the time to investigate the conference they said didn't occur since the letter of invetation and conference brochure have long since been scanned and posted to the Internet. So, there is no discussion of research (independent and otherwise) related to health effects of aspartame, including independent studies related to headaches/migraines, fibromyalgia, memory loss, seizures, depression-related symptoms, etc. and all that is presented is some claim from an urban legend site written by someone without any scientific experience or knowledge of aspartame research.

3) "External Links: Aspartame.org ... Aspartame Archives ... Update on the Safety of Aspartame 2002 by the European Commission Scientific Committee on Food (SCF) (pdf). ... A summary of the previous report by GreenFacts."

Exceptionally biased set of links since aspartame.org is the manufacturer's PR organization. Aspartame archives is written by a manufacturer-funded author. The report to the EC Scientific Committee on Food was authored by manufacturer consultants. That committee is now defunct because of bad publicity related to refusal of members to list their conflict of interest. GreenFacts is one of those greenwashing organizations started by a chemical company and is simply a summary of the paper authored by manufacturer consultants. No links to organizations providing detailed and up-to-date independent scientific information. One statement from an FDA scientist on the FDA site, but nothing in the external links to statements from other FDA scientists with different perspectives.

4) "Citing data from a Japanese study that had not been available to the members of the PBOI, Hayes approved aspartame for use in dry goods."

Inaccurate...mostly. Hayes was not allowed to rely on the Japanese study for the approval of aspartame, although he did mention it. He went into a very long and complicated argument related to aspartame and brain tumors. After the PBOI voted against approval, Hayes' own team of scientists was against approval, 3-2. No mention of the FDA urging fraud indictments of the manufacturer before Hayes headed the FDA. No quotes from FDA scientists (e.g., "They [G.D. Searle] lied and they didn't submit the real nature of their observations because had they done that it is more than likely that a greatnumber of these studies would have been rejected simply for adequacy. What Searle did, they took great pains to camouflage these shortcomings of the study. As I say filter and just present to the FDA what they wished the FDA to know and they did other terrible things for instance animals would develop tumors while they were under study. Well they would remove these tumors from the animals.")

5) "The amount of aspartame in an average can of diet cola is about 0.06%. At 104° F, the amount of aspartame reduces to 0.02%. The missing 0.04% turns into 0.01% diketopiperazine and 76.2 parts per billion of formaldehyde."

Not accurate. Time plays the biggest factor in the formation of aspartylphenylalanine diketopiperazine (DKP). Yes, temperature and acidity plays a significant role, but DKP formation is very small at first and increases significantly in aspartame-containing sodas as time goes by.

6) Funding: Several organizations are listed without any information about whether they were being funded by a company that would create a conflict of interest. This type of information is available in almost any scientific article and allows readers to differentiate from knowledgable independent and knowledgable non-independent sources.

7) "A large body of scientific evidence suggests that aspartame, even in amounts many times greater than typical consumption, is safe and not associated with adverse health effects."

NPOV. A blanket statement that is not really backed up by the research since a large number of independent studies have found opposite results. Even if one disagrees with these independent studies, that sentence sound more like something the manufacturer would write.

I think a NPOV article could be written. But if one wanted to accurately present both sides of the issue, then it would be important to consult with persons who are intimately familiar with the history and scientific studies related to aspartame.

Twoggle 01:52, 04 September 2005

Additional Issues Related to Accuracy and NPOV:

A) "A few studies have also recommended further investigation into possible connections between aspartame and diseases such as brain tumors, brain lesions, and lymphoma, but no large-scale studies have been conducted. These relatively unexplored possibilities, combined with notable conflicts of interest in the approval process, have engendered vocal activism regarding the legitimate risks of aspartame as well as some less credible theories."

This statement misrepresents much of the concern expressed by independent scientists, physicians and laypersons who have spoken about aspartame toxicity issues. The concerns related to brain tumors and brain lesions were raised during the pre-approval process and these issues are still a concern as no research has disputed Olney's review showing a increase in specific types of brain tumors in specific, vulnerable population groups nor the small Scandanavian study linking ingestion of diet sodas with large brain tumors in specific population groups (similar to what Olney et al. found). However, the real issue with the above statement is that it was not primarily issues related to brain tumors, brain lesions or lymphoma that caused people to become vocal about aspartame issues. It was the combination of a very large number of case reports of serious adverse effects, independent research linking aspartame to various health problems, and research related to aspartame breakdown products and metabolites (particularly formaldehyde and the excitotoxic amino acid). A US Congressional hearing was held in 1987 specifically because of these issues -- although they did touch on the brain cancer issue. Several independent organizations started up to collect case histories. This can easily be confirmed be speaking with the heads of organizations speaking out about aspartame.

B) "The amount of aspartame in an average can of diet cola is about 0.06%. At 104° F, the amount of aspartame reduces to 0.02%. The missing 0.04% turns into 0.01% diketopiperazine and 76.2 parts per billion of formaldehyde."

Here is a chart on aspartame breakdown in soft drinks:

                                   Date of   6 Months    36 Months
                                   Bottling    After        After
                                              Bottling    Bottling
         Aspartame                550.0 mg    155.34 mg    19.70 mg
         L-phenylalanine methyl
         ester                      0.0 mg     28.62 mg    13.01 mg
         DKP                        0.0 mg    135.66 mg   173.28 mg
         L-aspartylphenylalanine    0.0 mg    158.31 mg   189.05 mg
         L-phenylalanine            0.0 mg     42.22 mg   101.27 mg

         Tsang, Wing-Sum, et al., 1985. "Determination of Aspartame
         and Its Breakdown Products in Soft Drinks by Reverse-
         Phase Chromatography with UV Detection," Journal
         Agriculture and Food Chemistry, Vol. 33, No. 4, page 734-
         738.

This chart does not list all of the breakdown products. The point is that one cannot estimate the levels of DKP without knowing how long the aspartame-containing substance was stored. The formaldehyde content is irrelevent as the formaldehyde is formed in the body from the methyl ester component.

C) "Citing data from a Japanese study that had not been available to the members of the PBOI, Hayes approved aspartame for use in dry goods. [1]"

The Japanese study was submitted by Ajinomoto (the main producer of aspartame internationally). Referring to the study in the Federal Register Arthur Hull Hayes stated: "I note that none of these additional materials have served as a central basis for my decision, but rather only confirm the large body of evidence presented at the hearing." The discussion on brain tumors was 7 pages long (3 columns, very small type) with only a very short aside mentioning the Japanese study.

D) "Some believe that the approval of aspartame was influenced by conflict of interest. .... Hayes left the FDA in 1983 under fire for accepting corporate gifts and joined Searle's public-relations firm as senior medical advisor."

Hayes became a consultant for their public relations firm. There was a GAO report that investigated some of the conflict of interest: "Six Former HHS Employees' Involvement in Aspartame's Approval," United States General Accounting Office, GAO/HRD-86-109BR, July 1986.

E) "Scientists at the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology believe that even daily large doses of the high-intensity sweetener aspartame, also known as NutraSweet, had no adverse effect on study subjects' health and well-being[11]"

Statement worded in a way as to make readers believe that the research results represents the opinion of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) or more than the just the two (2) MIT scientists on this 20-day study designed/conducted with the funding and assistance of the aspartame manufacturer.

F) "# Criticism of CDC report findings

aspartamekills.com, an anti-aspartame website."

One of the easy ways to pick out extreme bias is to see how links to independent sites are buried at the bottom of a link list and when they are used at all, usually it's subpages that are difficult to read and the links are labeled in a negative way or mis-labeled. While sites authored by persons and organizations with proven conflict-of-interest are listed prominently and without any comment about that conflict-of-interest. For example, "Criticism of CDC report findings" is a exceptionally long text sub-page relating to an old 1980's CDC report. "aspartamekills.com" is listed as "an anti-aspartame website," but sites three sites authored by persons with conflict of interest of listed comment-free as if they're somehow independent. Finally, some of the best independent sites that provide up-to-date scientific information have been deleted.

An easy solution is to alternate external links and have experts pick out quality links from each side of the issue.

G) Finally, if one is going to list organizations that actually claim "no evidence" or problems with aspartame, one should also list organizations that claim the opposite and the analysis by an independent researcher (Dr. Ralph Walton) examining the results of aspartame research and correlating it with funding sources. Twoggle 21:42, 04 September 2005

If you believe there are issues, you are free to edit the article (as we all are). Just remember these guidelines:

Wikipedia does not re-enact debates. It describes them.
Spoon-feeding is discouraged. Information should be presented in a way that shows how conclusions are reached but does not try to guide the reader to a conclusion.
NPOV (do not write to the POV of your audience, do not write in a way that reveals your own POV).
Cite your sources. You've said some interesting things and mentioned some potentially interesting studies here, but I see no links to the original material.

There has been a problem on this page with people spamming this page with links to sites filled with unsubstantiated fear-mongering. I trust that your interest in neutrality will prevent this from occurring. Finally, as most people seem to have problems with the FDA approval process, please do not remove text indicating that the FDA now believes aspartame to be safe long after Hayes' departure. The Hokkaido Crow 17:14, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the asterisked items you listed. However, the following statement: "spamming this page with links to sites filled with unsubstantiated fear-mongering" is charged with non-NPOV. A case can be made and has been made that the current link list is "spammed" with little but unsubstantiated corporate PR. Of course, some people consider almost anything negative as "fear-mongering" even if it is proven. I think it is important to have links to quality sites on both sides of the issue without bad-mouthing the sites in the link name and without burying sites at the bottom (perhaps alternating quality sites). I can guarantee that some will think those sites are "unsubstantiated fear-mongering" and some will think sites on the other side are "unsubstantiated corporate PR." But by listing quality sites on both sides of the issue, the reader will have access to research, news, statements from organizations, scientists, etc.

As far as the FDA goes, I agree that the official opinion of this government agency is that aspartame is safe and a citation link is appropriate. If one would have discussed Vioxx 12 months ago, for example, a balanced approach would have been to provide information on the official position of the FDA as well as statements from the FDA scientist, Dr. David Graham about that issue. It turns out that Dr. Graham was correct. Similarly, I believe that if there are scientists within the FDA, particularly those who have worked on the aspartame issue and who disagree with the FDA officials, that should at least be noted somewhere (and a citation/link should be available as evidence of this fact). Twoggle 13:50, 07 September 2005

I think I need to point out here a good example of fear-mongering. Presently, we have a link to [8]. The URL tells us what we're probably going to find there, but let's take a look anyway at some of the quotes:

Beneath a photo of Dr. Friedman: "Dr. Michael Freidman, former acting head of the FDA who just accepted a position with Monsanto. I wonder how many new toxins he can get approved in his new position? Nice Uniform....
Beneath a photo of Adolf Hitler: "Adolph Hitler's Third Reich killed my grandmother and aunt at Riga and Stuthoff and millions of innocent people throughout Europe -webmaster"
Beneath a photo of Robert Shapiro defaced with tiny animated Hiter-style mustache" "Robert Shapiro's NutraSweet® killed my mother and has killed and/or wounded millions of innocent people in the US and abroad."

That, friend, is indisputably unsubstantiated fear-mongering. And there is nothing biased about pointing it out as such... the invocation of the Holocaust in this matter is clearly out of line. Will you be removing it from the page, or shall I? Unfortunately, people can't seem to tell the difference between the above and a technical paper, which is why these links seem to keep cropping up here. The Hokkaido Crow 20:03, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Hokkaido Crew, Thanks for your post. I partially disagree with your characterization. I do not only look at 1/20 of a web page to make a characterization of the whole thing. There are positive aspects about that page as well such as 1) One of the few places to get the longer Fox News audio about aspartame with key interview on both sides; 2) Articles by various physicians and scientists: Dr. Blaylock (and several interviews), Dr. Schwartz, Dr. Lydon, Jim Turner (involved in hearing about aspartame since the early 1970s), Dr. Cabot, Dr. H.J. Roberts, Dr. Weil; 3) Case reports; 4) Links to various useful resources. Then there is that small, but prominently displayed section with inappropriate Hitler references -- although the author is obviously somewhat emotional about the issue since he/she believes her mother died from aspartame toxicity.

I may or may not agree with the articles and interviews of the physicians and scientists or the Fox News report or the reference to Hitler, but I can at least see that there are some resources written by independent scientists and physicians available on this page that are not available on other pages. Still, aspartamekills.com would not be amongst the tops sites I would list on the anti- side because 1) that small, but prominent reference to Hitler, 2) it is not being kept up-to-date, and 3) it is not well-organized.

But I feel it is easy to pick out sections of any page and find a reason to remove it. Far better quality aspartame pages have already been removed. That is how one can go from a somewhat balanced list to a list primarily of corporate PR sites. Simply removing aspartamekills.com will make the list pretty much completely corporate PR in my opinion.

The idea of "unsubstantiated" BS cuts both ways equally in my opinion. Is it more dangerous or non-NPOV to link to a site that has part of the page going over-the-top as to potential adverse effects or a link to a site (or sites) that may be more organized, but is simply very professional-looking corporate public relations (not unlike linking to tobacco PR sites, for example). Should we eliminate links to site of organizations with obvious conflicts-of-interest? That would eliminate aspartame.org and Aspartame Archives and would certainly theaten The European Commission SCF report since the listed authors have conflicts of interest (although it was researched and drafted by *a single* individual).

In the interest of NPOV, I am more than happy to be as fair as possible with quality links including links of sites funded by the manufacturer or their trade groups. But what I too often see is a link list that starts out fair and then, link by link, quality independent sites are removed until one is left with a non-NPOV set of links. One can easily see by posts to various groups that there is a significant and very active interest by the aspartame.org people to skew what is seen online (such as link lists). See, for example, posts starting on June 21, 2005 at: http://www.psiphi.org/cgi/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=408 .

How about I propose a set of links and an initial order and you tell me what you think? I will go out of my way to list the sites on both sides with scientific discussions, statements from physicians, and the most prominent and reasonably up-to-date content. Twoggle 00:53, 09 September 2005

I'm not an approving authority... like I said before, you can add anything you like at any time you like, and anyone else can edit it. I just wanted to point out some of the problems we've had with people who take the anti-corporate stance. As far as bias goes, it is a reality that there isn't much to be found on the internet that is neutral or free of conflict of interest. Respectfully, I think you yourself do have a strong opinion, and it prevents you from seeing bias that you agree with. And that is fine... everyone has bias. I only ask that we link to information that is presented in a factual way. If we are asserting facts, then we have a basis for discussion. If we are talking about hysterical emotional appeals or references to the holocaust, there's no rational way to discuss that. There is a pro side and an anti side, let's present the rational aspects of both. The Hokkaido Crow 15:31, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your ideas! Okay, here is my proposed web site list. I think it is appropriate to allow comments before making wholesale changes. I understand, of course, that anyone can make changes.

The first version below is one possible order. The second version is the same list in an order putting pro-aspartame sites first and then alternating. These sites are some of the most popular and informative sites on the Internet on both sides of the issue. After looking at both potential sort orders below, I think it is difficult to see any POV in this list.

[sort order option #1]

- Aspartame Toxicity Information Center [9]

+ Aspartame Information Center [10]

- Aspartame -- Dorway to Discovery [11]

+ Aspartame Information Service [12]

- Aspartame -- Mission Possible News/Articles [13]

+ Aspartame Archives [14]

- Aspartame Victims Support Group [15]

+ Aspartame -- American Dietetic Association [16]

- Aspartame Truth Information Site [17]

+ Snopes -- Aspartame Web Page [18]

- Aspartame Consumer Safety Network [19]

+ Aspartame -- American Council on Science and Health [20]

- SweetPoison.com [21]

+ Nutrasweet Web Site [22]

[sort order option #2]

+ Aspartame Information Center [23]

- Aspartame Toxicity Information Center [24]

+ Aspartame Information Service [25]

- Aspartame -- Dorway to Discovery [26]

+ Aspartame Archives [27]

- Aspartame -- Mission Possible News/Articles [28]

+ Aspartame -- American Dietetic Association [29]

- Aspartame Victims Support Group [30]

+ Snopes -- Aspartame Web Page [31]

- Aspartame Truth Information Site [32]

+ Aspartame -- American Council on Science and Health [33]

- Aspartame Consumer Safety Network [34]

+ Nutrasweet Web Site [35]

- SweetPoison.com [36]

Below are additional possible web pages that are paired. For example, the statement by an FDA official is paired with a statement by a former FDA Investigator. The EC SCF report is paired with the response that was passed around to EU members and agencies. An Editorial in a scientific journal is paired with both positive and negative responses in a scientific journal.

Possible Additional Pairings:

FDA

+ Sugar Substitutes (U.S. FDA web page) [37]

- Former U.S. FDA Investigator [38]

EU SCF

+ Update on Aspartame Safety; EC Scientific Committee on Food [39]

- Update on Aspartame Safety; Response to EC Scientific Committee on Food [40]

British Medical Journal Debate:

+ Aspartame and Its Effects on Health [41]

+ Aspartame and the Internet [42]

- Responses to Aspartame and Its Effects on Health [43]

Twoggle 18:45, 09 September 2005

Things I find POV are sites that rely on anecdotal or individual evidence, or presuppose to have the only correct POV. Thus, if you are asking my personal opinion, I find problems with the following:

www.sweetpoison.com is nothing more than pop science, and is obviously being used to sell a book. In particular, the statement "phenylalanine is a neurotoxin" is somewhat silly, since we know that phenylalanine is a naturally occurring amino acid.
www.aspartametruth.com seems explicitly POV to me, just from the implication of the domain name that it possesses "the truth". We can't take it seriously while it includes links like "Aspartame makers and ties to the Nazis".
Aspartame victims support group - definitely POV. Assuming the mantle of "victims" presupposes some scientific legitimacy or diagnosis of aspartame poisoning.

It's kind of a shame that people can't seem to talk about the scientific evidence without including some sort of scare tactic in the same breath. The Hokkaido Crow 12:16, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

In the UK, there are warnings about phenylalanine on the back of drinks containing aspartame (because aspartame usually contains a source of phenylalanine)... if it isn't dangerous, why these warnings? 146.87.95.167

I'm guessing that the warning is for people with phenylketonuria (PKU). --Viriditas | Talk 21:32, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Hokkaido, I posted 7 sites on each side and you had negative opinions of three (3) anti-aspartame sites.

There is not one site listed that is non-POV. That is why I suggested alternating.

For example, www.sweetpoison.com is marketing a product. However, I paired it with www.nutrasweet.com which is also marketing a product. If I thought that marketing was a basis to exclude a site, I would certainly exclude both sites. The mention of phenylalanine as a neurotoxin is accurate. Much of the research over the years has related to plasma phenylalanine spikes from aspartame (which does not occur from normal foods) and its effects on brain neurotransmitters, including neurotoxicity (especially for fetuses). I think it is clear that the formaldehyde and excitotoxin aspect of aspartame is much more of a concern than the phenylalanine, so I disagree with the www.sweetpoison.com site on that issue. But simply because some disagree does not mean it should avoid being listed, IMO. Much of what is on the www.nutrasweet.com site is not accurate in my opinion. But these are two moderately popular sites on the issue, each with important information.

I paired www.aspartametruth.com with the snopes site. The snopes site claims that the issue is a hoax (prominently displaying "FALSE") based upon reading a bunch of other sites and not reading the research. The www.aspartametruth.com site claims to have the truth on its side. Both sites are equally POV, yet both sites have important resources not easily available on other pages.

The Aspartame Victims Support Group is no more POV than the one that it is paired with, the American Dietetic Association (ADA) fact sheet. The ADA was paid $75,000 and worked with the manufacturer to write their first fact sheet. Now, their fact sheet comes from the manufacturer's PR group (Calorie Control Council). Both organizations think they present scientifically legitimate arguments and both organizations are trying to support the general public on this issue. The most popular support group on the issue deserves to be listed along with one of the most popular dietetic groups.

My understanding of the Wikipedia policy is that the overall piece should be NPOV, but that individual statements and links can be POV. In order to keep the overall piece NPOV, I suggested alternating some of the most important links on each side of the issue.

You objected to three of the pairs I listed. That is fine. So, I'll start by changing the external links to the pairs not objected to. It will be interesting to see if someone objects to alternating links, starting with links that provide the most scientific information and discussion. My goal is the same as one or your stated goals -- to make the overall article written in a way that doesn't reveal POV.

By the way, here is testiomony of Dr. Louis Elsas, Division of Medical Genetics, Emory Univ. School of Medicine : "First of all, in the developing fetus -- a situation not considered previously -- the mother is supplying that fetus with nutrients. And if she were dieting, let's say, and increasing her blood phenylalanine uniquely by taking Crystal Lite or Kool Aid, or any of the various diet foods now, to maintain her weight, and increased her blood phenylalanine from its normal 50 to 150 umoles/liter by chronic ingestion at 35 milligrames of aspartame per kilo per day -- which everyone agrees could be reached -- the placenta will concentrate her blood phenylalanine two-fold. So the fetal blood circulation to her baby in utero, is now 300 umole per liter of phenylalanine. The fetal brain then, as Dr. Pardridge will tell you, will increase further that concentration into the brain cells of that baby two- to four-fold. Those are neurotoxic levels in tissue culture and in many other circumstances." (Note: This was part of Dr. Elsas' testimony to the U.S. Senate Committee on Labor and Human Resources, November 3, 1987 regarding "NutraSweet Health and Safety Concerns." (Document # Y 4.L 11/4:S.HR6.100., pages 360-367) More information about aspartame and phenylalanine can be found in Dr. Pardridge's testimony [44] in that same document or a paper published by Dr. Pardrige: "Potential Effects of the Dipeptide Sweetener Aspartame on the Brain," Nutrition and the Brain, Volume 7, pages 199-241, 1986, Eds: Wurtman & Wurtman. [45]) or many studies related to aspartame in the 1980s.

Whether one agrees with it or not, there have been quite a number of scientists concerned with neurotoxicity of free-form phenylalanine from aspartame. In fact, in 1987, a scientific conference was convened on the issues related to phenylalanine and aspartame where 47 papers were presented [46].

Twoggle 20:38, 10 September 2005

Here are my initial thoughts related to the Health Effects Controversy section. The following paragraph (starting with): "It has been suggested that aspartame might be a neurotoxin [5] since one of its labile chemical components is methanol. ...." There have been significant health effects controversies from four (4) major breakdown products from aspartame: methanol, aspartic acid, phenylalanine, aspartylphenylalanine diketopiperazine (DKP). There has been a huge amount of debate and literally thousands of studies related to these breakdown products. As one example, a meeting of the Society for Neuroscience produced a split on the issues related to gradual neurotoxic effects and free-form excitotoxic amino acids found in some additives such as aspartame [47] Two other issues have been raised: beta-aspartame [48] and racemization of aspartame's amino acids [49]. Finally, issues have been raised on the effects of the combination of formaldehyde (from the methanol) and aspartic acid as well as free-form phenylalanine combined with carbohydrates.

My idea is to briefly mention each of the four breakdown product issues and the arguments of both sides, trying to be as clear and concise as possible. In the defense of most of the aspartame industry-funded scientists, they haven't gotten bogged down in arguments related to 'more aspartic acid / phenylalanine in foods' since their own studies show the biochemical changes are tremendously different from aspartame as compared to foods with these amino acids (e.g., [50] and [51]). These scientists have other, more well thought out arguments, in my opinion.

Twoggle 20:12, 11 September 2005

Here are my ideas for the Health Effects Controversy section, particularly the sub-section on the potential effects of the breakdown products and metabolites of aspartame.

One thing to note is that I alternate which argument to present first and second.

Any thoughts?:

There are four chemical components of aspartame that scientists and physicians have debated as to whether the are causing or can cause adverse health effects:

1. Methanol. Scientists agree that approximately 11% of aspartame (by weight) is broken down into methanol in the small intestine. Most of the methanol is absorbed and quickly converted into formaldehyde. Some scientists believe that the methanol cannot be a problem because: a) there is not enough methanol absorbed to cause toxicity, b) that methanol and formaldehyde are already a by-product of human metabolism, and c) that there is more methanol in some alcoholic beverages and fruit juices than is derived from aspartame ingestion. [52] [53] Other scientists believe a) fruit juices and alcoholic beverages always contain protective chemicals such as ethanol that block conversion of methanol into formaldehyde, but aspartame contains no protective factors; b) that the levels of methanol and particularly formaldehyde have been proven cause chronic toxicity in humans, and c) that the low levels of methanol and formaldehyde in human metabolism are tightly-controlled such that significant increases from aspartame ingestion are not safe. [54], [55]

In 1998, a team of scientists in Spain conducted an experiment on rodents to indirectly measure the levels of formaldehyde adducts in the organs after ingestion of aspartame. They did this by [radiolabeling ] the methanol portion of aspartame. The scientists concluded that formaldehyde bound to protein and DNA accumulated in the brain, liver, kidneys and other tissues after ingestion of either 10 mg/kg or 200 mg/kg of aspartame. [56] However, it has been argued by Tephly that these scientists were not directly measuring formaldehyde, but simply measuring levels of some by-product of the methanol from aspartame.[57] Tephly believes that the by-product was not formaldehyde. The researchers have stated that the data in the experiment has proven it was formaldehyde. [58]

2. Phenylalanine. Scientists agree that phenylalanine is an amino acid commonly found in foods. Approximately 50% of aspartame (by weight) is broken down into phenylalanine. Because aspartame is broken down and absorbed very quickly (unlike phenylalanine-containing proteins in foods), it is known that aspartame could spike blood plasma levels of phenylalanine. [59], [60] The debate centers on whether a significant spike in blood plasma phenylalanine occurs at typical aspartame ingestion levels, whether a sudden influx of phenylalanine into the bloodstream adversely effects uptake of other amino acids into the brain and the production of neurotransmitters (since phenylalanine competes with other Large Neutral Amino Acids (LNAAs) for entry into the brain at the blood brain barrier), and whether a significant rise in phenylalanine levels would be concentrated in the brain of fetuses and be potentially neurotoxic.

Some scientists believe, based on case histories from aspartame users, measuring levels of neurotransmitters in the brains of animals and measuring the potential of aspartame to cause seizures in animals that aspartame may effect neurotransmitter production. [61], [62], [63] They believe that even a moderate spike in blood plasma phenylalanine levels from typical ingestion may have adverse consequences in long-term use. They are especially concerned that the phenylalanine can be concentrated in fetal brains to a potentially neurotoxic level. [64], [65] Other scientists believe that rise in blood plasma phenylalanine is negligable in typical use of aspartame [66] and their studies show no significant effects on neurotransmitter levels in the brain or changes in seizure threshholds. [67], [68], [69] In addition, they say that proven adverse effects of phenylalanine on fetuses has only been seen when blood phenylalanine levels stay at high levels as opposed to ocassionally being spiked to high levels. [70]

3. Aspartic acid. Scientists agree that aspartic acid is an amino acid commonly found in foods. Approximately 40% of aspartame (by weight) is broken down into aspartic acid. Because aspartame is broken down and absorbed very quickly (unlike aspartic acid-containing proteins in foods), it is known that aspartame could spike blood plasma levels of aspartate. [71], [72] Aspartic acid is in a class of chemicals known as excitotoxins. Abnormally high levels of excitotoxins have been shown in hundreds of animals studies to cause damage to areas of the brain unprotected by the blood brain barrier and a variety of chronic diseases arising out of this neurotoxicity. [73], [74] The debate amongst scientists has been raging since the early 1970's, when Dr. John Olney found that high levels of aspartic acid caused damage to the brains of infant mice [75]. Dr. Olney and consumer attorney, James Turner filed a protest with the FDA to block the approval of aspartame. The debate is complex and has focused on several areas: a) whether the increase in plasma aspartate levels from typical ingestion levels of aspartame is enough to cause neurotoxicity in one dose or over time; b) whether humans are susceptible to the neurotoxicity from aspartic acid seen in some animal experiments; c) whether aspartic acid increases the toxicity of formaldehyde; d) whether neurotoxicity from excitotoxins should consider the combined effect aspartic acid and other excitotoxins such as glutamic acid from monosodium glutamate. The Neuroscientists at meeting of the Society for Neuroscience had a split of opinion on the issues related to neurotoxic effects from excitotoxic amino acids found in some additives such as aspartame. [76]

Some scientists believe that humans and other primates are not as susceptible to excitotoxins as rodents and therefore there is little concern with aspartic acid from aspartame. [77], [78] While they agree that the combined effects of all food-based excitotoxins should be considered [79], their measurements of the blood plasma levels of aspartic acid after ingestion of aspartame and monosodium glutamate demonstrate that there is not a cause for concern. [80], [81] Other scientists feel that primates are susceptible to excitotoxic damage [82] and that humans concentrate excitotoxins in the blood more than other animal. [83] Based on these findings, they feel that humans are approximately 5-6 times more susceptible to the effects of excitotoxins as are rodents. [84] While they agree that typical use of aspartame does not spike aspartic acid to extremely high levels in adults, they are particularly concerned with potential effects in infants and young children [85], the potential long-term neurodegenerative effects of small-to-moderate spikes on plasma excitotoxin levels [86], and the potential dangers of combining formaldehyde exposure with given that chronic methanol exposure increases excitoxin levels in susceptible areas of the brain [87], [88] and that excitotoxins may potentiate formaldehyde damage. [89]

4. Aspartylphenylalanine Diketopiperazine. This type of diketopiperazine (DKP) is created in products as aspartame breaks down over time. For example, researchers found that 6 months after aspartame was put into carbonated beverages, 25% of the aspartame had been converted to DKP. [90] Concern amongst some scientists have been expressed that this form of DKP would undergo a nitrosation process in the stomach producing a type of chemical that could cause brain tumors. [91], [92] Other scientists feel that the nitrosation of aspartame or the DKP in the stomach would not produce a chemical that would cause brain tumors. Additionally, only a miniscule amount of the nitrosated chemical would be produced. [93] There are very few human studies on the effects of this form of DKP. However, a one day exposure study showed that the DKP was tolerated without adverse effects. [94]

Twoggle 23:24, 18 September 2005

Criteria for above text:

A. Wikipedia:NPOV. Each section above provides an overview of each side of the debate. Sometimes, articles or news shows can consitently present one side of the debate first and then end consistently with the opposite viewpoint. Often times, these articles/shows are skewed to the side of the debate that has its argument presented last. Therefore, the positions are alternated such that in some sections is starts with anti-aspartame and some with pro-aspartame.

B. No original research. No original research is presented above. Sources are cited. What was provided was an overview of the issues related to aspartame breakdown products. The text was kept as short as possible, and for that reason some issues on both sides were left out.

C. Wikipedia:Verifiability. The types of sources used are supposed to be geared towards the potential editors of the text. However, it makes sense that persons editing issues related to potential health effects of a substance should be somewhat familiar with the scientific literature or at least have access to it. On the other hand, that may not always be the case. Much of the citations above are from scientific literature. However, due to copyright restrictions, only a link to the abstract was provided. But the abstract will not always provide the evidence or verifiability of the reason the source was used. Therefore, this space will be used to provide Wikipedia:Fair use images (excerpts of a sentence or two) to verify the references.

Ref. 1 & 2: "Some scientists believe that the methanol cannot be a problem because: a) there is not enough methanol absorbed to cause toxicity, b) that methanol and formaldehyde are already a by-product of human metabolism, and c) that there is more methanol in some alcoholic beverages and fruit juices than is derived from aspartame ingestion." [95] [96] Verify at: [Chapter by Thomas Tephly in Butchko review] and [Image from Lajtha review].

Ref. 3 & 4: "Other scientists believe a) fruit juices and alcoholic beverages always contain protective chemicals such as ethanol that block conversion of methanol into formaldehyde, but aspartame contains no protective factors; b) that the levels of methanol and particularly formaldehyde have been proven cause chronic toxicity in humans, and c) that the low levels of methanol and formaldehyde in human metabolism are tightly-controlled such that significant increases from aspartame ingestion are not safe." [97], [98] Verify at: Reviews available in references [#1] and #2].

Ref. 5: "They did this by [radiolabeling ] the methanol portion of aspartame. The scientists concluded that formaldehyde bound to protein and DNA accumulated in the brain, liver, kidneys and other tissues after ingestion of either 10 mg/kg or 200 mg/kg of aspartame." [99] Verify at: Reference [#1].

Ref. 6: "However, it has been argued by Tephly that these scientists were not directly measuring formaldehyde, but simply measuring levels of some by-product of the methanol from aspartame."[100] Verify at: [Chapter by Thomas Tephly]

Ref. 7: "The researchers have stated that the data in the experiment has proven it was formaldehyde." [[101]] Verify at: In [referenced letter] from lead scientist on the study.

Ref. 8 & 9: "it is known that aspartame could spike blood plasma levels of phenylalanine. [102], [103] Verify at: In referenced abstracts [1] and [2].

Ref. 10, 11, 12: "Some scientists believe, based on case histories from aspartame users, measuring levels of neurotransmitters in the brains of animals and measuring the potential of aspartame to cause seizures in animals that aspartame may effect neurotransmitter production." [104], [105], [106] Verify at: In referenced abstracts [1], [2], [3].

Ref. 13 & 14: "They are especially concerned that the phenylalanine can be concentrated in fetal brains to a potentially neurotoxic level." [107], [108] Verify at: In referenced excerpts [#1] and[#2] from scientists' testimony.

Ref. 15: "Other scientists believe that rise in blood plasma phenylalanine is negligable in typical use of aspartame. [109] Verify at: In [reference] provided.

Ref. 16, 17, 18: "their studies show no significant effects on neurotransmitter levels in the brain or changes in seizure threshholds." [110], [111], [112] Verify at: In references [#1], [#2], [#3 provided.

Ref. 19: "proven adverse effects of phenylalanine on fetuses has only been seen when blood phenylalanine levels stay at high levels as opposed to ocassionally being spiked to high levels." [113] Verify at: [Image from London review]

Ref. 20 & 21: "Because aspartame is broken down and absorbed very quickly (unlike aspartic acid-containing proteins in foods), it is known that aspartame could spike blood plasma levels of aspartate." [114], [115] Verify at: In references [#1] and [#2 provided.

Ref. 22 & 23: "Abnormally high levels of excitotoxins have been shown in hundreds of animals studies to cause damage to areas of the brain unprotected by the blood brain barrier and a variety of chronic diseases arising out of this neurotoxicity." [116], [117] Verify at: [Image from Nemeroff review] and permitted use of reference [#2].

Ref. 24: "The debate amongst scientists has been raging since the early 1970's, when Dr. John Olney found that high levels of aspartic acid caused damage to the brains of infant mice." [118] Verify at: [Image from Olney & Ho study].

Ref. 25: "The Neuroscientists at meeting of the Society for Neuroscience had a split of opinion on the issues related to neurotoxic effects from excitotoxic amino acids found in some additives such as aspartame." [119] Verify at: [Excerpt from news article].

Ref 26 & 27: "Some scientists believe that humans and other primates are not as susceptible to excitotoxins as rodents and therefore there is little concern with aspartic acid from aspartame." [120], [121] Verify at: [Image from Abraham study] and reference [#2].

Ref 28: "While they agree that the combined effects of all food-based excitotoxins should be considered...." [122] Verify at: [Image] from Stegink review on page 356.

Ref 29 & 30: "their measurements of the blood plasma levels of aspartic acid after ingestion of aspartame and monosodium glutamate demonstrate that there is not a cause for concern." [123], [124] Verify at: References [#1] and [#2].

Ref 31: "Other scientists feel that primates are susceptible to excitotoxic damage" [125] Verify at: [Image from Olney study].

Ref 32: "humans concentrate excitotoxins in the blood more than other animal." [126] Verify at: [Image] from page 90 of [Book]: "Glutamic Acid: Advances in Biochemistry & Physiology." Further information available at [127].

Ref 33: "Based on these findings, they feel that humans are approximately 5-6 times more susceptible to the effects of excitotoxins as are rodents." Verify at: Reference [#1].

Ref 34: "they are particularly concerned with potential effects in infants and young children." Verify at: Reference [#1].

Ref 35: "the potential long-term neurodegenerative effects of small-to-moderate spikes on plasma excitotoxin levels." Verify at: reference [#1].

Ref 36 & 37: "chronic methanol exposure increases excitoxin levels in susceptible areas of the brain." [128], [129] Verify at: Reference [#1 and [#2].

Ref 38: "excitotoxins may potentiate formaldehyde damage. [130] Verify at: Abstracts and quotes in reference [#1].

Ref 39: "researchers found that 6 months after aspartame was put into carbonated beverages, 25% of the aspartame had been converted to DKP." [131] Verify at: [Image from Tsang study].

Ref 40 & 41: "Concern amongst some scientists have been expressed that this form of DKP would undergo a nitrosation process in the stomach producing a type of chemical that could cause brain tumors." [132], [133] Verify at: [Image] from Olney, et al. study and reference [#2].

Ref 42: "Other scientists feel that the nitrosation of aspartame or the DKP in the stomach would not produce a chemical that would cause brain tumors. Additionally, only a miniscule amount of the nitrosated chemical would be produced." [134] Verify at: [Image] from Flamm letter.

Ref 43: "a one day exposure study showed that the DKP was tolerated without adverse effects." [135] Verify at: Reference [#1].

Twoggle 04:26, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

More NPOV ideas. From the article:

"Questions about aspartame frequently revolve around concerns of health conditions that are allegedly caused by the sweetener, including headaches, seizures, allergic reactions, changes in mood or behavior, and symptoms similar to multiple sclerosis. Indeed, an e-mail has been circulating since 1998, claiming to be from a lecturer at an international conference on aspartame risks, listing various symptoms supposedly caused by the chemical. This email has generally been dismissed as inaccurate, and there is no evidence that such a conference or other events recounted in the email actually occurred, according to Snopes, a site which debunks urban legends."

I suggest that there is some discussion of research and clinical findings on each side related to the symptoms. I also suggest that the "Nancy Markle" discussion be ditched. If we do include it, I suggest we reference it and present both sides of the argument. If we need to include Snopes, we probably should add a response to Snopes' viewpoint.

"A large body of scientific evidence suggests that aspartame, even in amounts many times greater than typical consumption, is safe and not associated with adverse health effects."

This is obviously not NPOV since a large body of scientific evidence suggests that aspartame in amounts ingested in typical consumption is not safe. There are studies on both sides of the issue, some of which are categorized in [Dr. Walton's preliminary review. I will propose some suggested edits.

An interesting note: there has been a big push in the last month to ban the sale of aspartame in New Mexico, with hearings, articles in papers, radio shows, and especially a large number of submittals from persons (and scientists) on both sides of the issue. They are supposed to decide on Oct. 4. It seems to be coming down to whether the state has authority to ban it.

Twoggle 23:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Here is a first pass at the section mentioned above to make it more NPOV and get rid of the "Nancy Markle" nonsense. In addition, I listed the most commonly reported symptoms and most hotly debated health conditions:

Questions about aspartame frequently revolve around symptoms and health conditions that are allegedly caused by the sweetener. Some of the more common symptoms that have been reported include: headaches, change in mood or behavior, seizures, GI Tract symptoms, memory loss, loss of vision, depression, joint pain and fatigue. Some of the more common health conditions that have been reported include: fibromyalgia, arthritis, and multiple sclerosis-like symptoms. Questions have been raised about brain cancer, lymphoma, and genotoxic effects such as DNA-protein crosslinks, but these quesitons are primarily not based on reported case histories.

The sources for reported symtpoms and health conditions that have raised questions include:

1. Reports and analysis of case histories in scientific journals and at medical conferences.

2. Symptoms reported to the FDA and other governmental agencies.

3. Symptoms reported to non-governmental organizations, researchers, and physicians.

4. Reports of symptoms and health conditions in the media.

5. Self-reported cases on the Internet.

There is a significant debate in the scientific and medical community as to whether these symptoms are or are not caused by short-term or long-term exposure to aspartame. Some human and animal studies have found adverse effects and some have found no adverse effects. [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141] It is not only the results of the research that have been questioned, but the design of the reseach that led to specific outcomes. For example, in human research of aspartame, the aspartame is usually provided in slow-dissolving capsules. But the biochemical changes from ingesting aspartame in slow-dissolving capsules is many times smaller than ingesting aspartame dissolved in liquids (such as carbonated beverages). [142] Therefore, the amount of aspartame used in most human studies is equivalent to a much smaller "real-world" amount. Other questions that have been raised about aspartame research involve the length of the studies, the number of test subjects; conflict of interest issues, improper testing procedures, etc.

What do you think?

Twoggle 16:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

For the above suggested text:

A. NPOV. The use of the term "allegedly" can sometimes be a put-down of people making reports of effects -- especially if it's used over and over. In this case, however, it seems pretty NPOV. The symptoms listed are essentially the most common symptoms reported to the FDA and to H.J. Roberts, MD (who compiled and published in a scientific journal the largest analysis of reported cases). Other health conditions mentioned are ones that have raised concerns in the scientific community or media.

No references are listed next to the sources for reported cases since that would provide links to case reports in medical journals, media, Intenet, etc. on one side of the issue but not the other. Probably doesn't matter much, though. But I'll add some sources to the verifiability section below.

Three studies on each side of the issue were chosen in the last paragraph. The concerns raised about apply to both studies supported by the manufacturer and those that are supported by other sources.

B. No_original_research. No original research is presented above. Sources are cited. What was provided was a very overview of some of the symptoms and health conditions concerns. Anyone knowledgable on the issue could expand this section considerably.

C. Verifiability.

Reported syptoms listing

1. [1995 listing from the FDA], but does not include reports from the early 1980's. Notice how seizures is split into multiple categories. 2. [Chart] from Roberts, H.J., "Reactions Attributed to Aspartame-Containing Products: 551 Cases," Journal of Applied Nutrition, Volume 40, page 85-94, 1988.

Health conditions listing

1. Fibromyalgia concerns raised in the following study: [143] 2. Arthritis raised in [chapter] from book by physician and with opposite finding from a study by a patent holder of aspartame: [144] 3. Multiple Sclerosis an obvious choice from the original ["Nancy Markle email]."

Other conditions mentioned

1. Brain cancer issue has been raised for years. No need to verify reason to list it. 2. Lymphoma issue was raised recently: [145]. 3. DNA Protein Crosslinks is an issue that is raised almost any time long-term exposure to formaldehyde is discussed. [146] [147] The issue of DNA protein crosslinks was originally raised (in relation to aspartame) in the following [article]. One [study] looked at short-term, in vitro effects of aspartame metabolites, but there have yet to be any looks a long-term human exposure where such effects are seen in the industrial formaldehyde exposure experiments cited above.

Sources for Reported Symptoms (sample references):

1. Reports and analysis of case histories in scientific journals and at medical conferences.

[148], [149], [150], [151], [152], [153], [154], [155]

2. Symptoms reported to the FDA and other governmental agencies.

[156] [157]

3. Symptoms reported to non-governmental organizations, researchers, and physicians.

[158] [159] [160] [161] [162]

4. Reports of symptoms and health conditions in the media.

[163] [164] [165] [166]

5. Self-reported cases on the Internet.

[167] [168]

Last paragraph:

"Some human and animal studies have found adverse effects and some have found no adverse effects." [169], [170], [171], [172], [173], [174]

Verify at: References [#1], [#2], [#4], and [#5] above have abstracts that describe the results. Images from references [#3] and [#6] describe the results.

"But the biochemical changes from ingesting aspartame in slow-dissolving capsules is many times smaller than ingesting aspartame dissolved in liquids (such as carbonated beverages)." [175] Verify at: Abstract in Reference [#1].

Twoggle 01:23, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Suggesting for NPOVing the following:

"A large body of scientific evidence suggests that aspartame, even in amounts many times greater than typical consumption, is safe and not associated with adverse health effects. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has investigated claims of ill effects since 1982 and maintains that there is no reasonable evidence of possible public health harm and no consistent or unique patterns of symptoms reported with respect to aspartame that can be causally linked to its use. [55] The American Cancer Society argues that since aspartame is broken down into these components before it is absorbed into the blood stream, aspartame in its initial form does not have the opportunity to travel to target organs, including the brain, to cause cancer [56]. The American Heart Association concludes that extensive investigation so far hasn't shown any serious side effects from aspartame. [57] Scientists at the prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology believe that even daily large doses of the high-intensity sweetener aspartame, also known as NutraSweet, had no adverse effect on study subjects' health and well-being[58] The National Cancer Institute argues there is no evidence that the regulated artificial sweeteners on the market in the United States are related to cancer risk in humans.[59]"

Nix the first sentence since there are many studies on both sides of the issue and this was addressed at the start of the Health Controversy section. There are organizations on both sides of the issue, so if organizations are mentioned or quoted, then I suggest alternating. Massachusetts Institute of Technology does not take a position on aspartame, nor does its researchers (in general). But there were two MIT researchers on that study and that study is already being cited in the Health Controversies section. Finally, there are many hundreds of aspartame studies (probably over 600 studies) and thousands of studies related to the components of aspartame. Therefore, I think some general statement should be made that the person(s) at these organizations responsible for their opinion on aspartame may not have actually read the bulk of the research.

Twoggle 01:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Here is a very rough idea for the Responses section near the bottom of the article. Some of the organizations listed below have industry funding and some do not. Some are less well-known than others in certain parts of the world. I don't know about the last paragraph, but I was hoping to include something like what it says. After a change like detailed below, I don't think there will be any aspartame article on the web or anywhere else that contains so concise, yet with scientific detail (in layman's terms) and is so NPOV.

The American Cancer Society argues that since aspartame is broken down into these components before it is absorbed into the blood stream, aspartame in its initial form does not have the opportunity to travel to target organs, including the brain, to cause cancer. [176] The Feingold Association has stated that aspartame is reported to cause a variety of neurological effects from headache to seizures and brain tumors. [177] The American Heart Association concludes that extensive investigation so far hasn't shown any serious side effects from aspartame. [178] The UK Campaign for Truth in Medicine says that Aspartame is, by far, the most dangerous substance on the market that is added to foods. [179] The National Cancer Institute argues there is no evidence that the regulated artificial sweeteners on the market in the United States are related to cancer risk in humans.[180] The National Health Federation calls aspartame a neurotoxic artificial sweetener. [181] The FDA says the more than 100 toxicological and clinical studies it has reviewed confirm that aspartame is safe for the general population. [182] The Association for Consumers Action on Safety and Health (India) published a review in a scientific journal and issued a nationwide warning on the dangers of ingesting aspartame. [183]

There have been more than 600 studies on aspartame and thousands of studies on aspartame breakdown products and metabolites. It is not known whether person(s) writing the opinion for the above-mentioned organizations have read the bulk of the published research on aspartame or whether they are relying on summaries provided to them.

Twoggle 21:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Links and false precision

The list of External Links is still a bit long (not referring to references here, use as many of those as you need).

The amount of aspartame in an average can of diet cola is about 0.06%. At 104° F, the amount of aspartame reduces to 0.02%.

This sounds like false precision. For how long? What brand? Cite? --RainR 19:48, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

What's a good guideline for number of external links? I looked up a variety of controversal topics on Wikipedia and read the external links article, but didn't find any guidelines. I agree, though, it would be good to shorten it. I think that the following are useful links, but could be deleted (2 on each side of the issue):

Aspartame Consumer Safety Network
Aspartame -- American Council on Science and Health
Aspartame and the Internet
Responses to Aspartame and Its Effects on Health

Twoggle 23:05, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

The official External Link policy doesn't give a specific number, but guidelines to what kind of links are appropriate. WP:EL

--RainR 09:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

The first rule in the link policy is link to the official site for the topic. I believe that the official aspartame information site should be included and first on the list. I hope that we can find some sites that take a balanced look and not just _pro_ and _anti_ sites.

--RainR 20:35, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I assume you are refering to: "Official sites should be added to the page of any organization, person, or other entity that has an official site." With that criteria there is no *one single* official site. There are manufacturer sites, organization (governmental and non-governmental) sites, PR sites, etc. Not one site listed is any more official than other sites (even if they claim to be). I agree that the sites that meet the criteria of "any organization, person, or other entity that has an official site" should be listed towards the top. I assume that's what you mean.(?) Please let me know. Here's another controversial issue with no official sites, but various links: [[184]]. Do you have any thoughts of sites that provide significant useful info and take a balanced look (i.e., "5. High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article.")? Twoggle 21:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

"Under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions, aspartame first splits off methanol by hydrolysis. Under more severe conditions, the peptide bonds are also hydrolyzed, resulting in the free amino acids. The amount of aspartame in an average can of diet cola is about 0.06%. At 104° F, the amount of aspartame reduces to 0.02%. The missing 0.04% turns into 0.01% diketopiperazine and 76.2 parts per billion of formaldehyde."

I agree that the numbers are not precise the way they're presented. Good catch. I suggest rewording it. It's difficult to summarize since there are so many possibilities: low-medium-high moisture products; low-medium-high pH products; low-medium-high temperature and all of the permiatations. Maybe a section of aspartame breakdown as part of the chemistry section and perhaps typical amounts in milligrams for certain types of products. Twoggle 04:15, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

What exactly is intended for the "Chemistry" and "Properties and use" sections. I cannot tell which of those sections is more appropriate to have chemical breakdown information in real-world products. Also, I don't know the intended difference between chemistry and properties. Twoggle 01:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

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