User:Badlydrawnjeff/Meme
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[edit] Internet Meme Guidelines
I would like to see us have some sort of guideline in place regarding internet memes, similar to WP:CORP or WP:MUSIC. After seeing many, many notable internet memes end up on AfD (Brian Peppers about a zillion times, Raptor Jesus, Hatten ar Din, LUEshi, it's apparent that a) people are creating articles out of internet memes, and b) people wrongly consider some memes to only be notable if they get publicity offline, like All Your Base. Obviously, some guideline needs to be set to separate the Magical Trevors from the one-off Something Awful "Flash Tub" characters, but it would be very, very helpful to set some sort of standards.
With that said, a couple ideas for notability guidelines. An internet meme could be notable if it meets one of these guidelines:
- Minimum 20000 Google hits/XXX "Unique Hits".
- A clear amount of linking from other sites notable via WP:WEB (Something Awful, for example).
- "Traditional media mention," such as newspapers, syndicated comic strips, television shows, etc.
- How about "has been used in a derivative or combination meme"? Just an idea... - CorbinSimpson 05:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Not a good idea. You'd miss out on great memes like Magical Trevor, Kick in the V-tec, crab battle, "<insert name here> actor found waldo", Veloso, Yatta, etc. to include only things like O RLY? Chuck Norris, All your base/zero wing....while that may appeal to the casual user, it doesn't help clue them in on the internet meme subculture that we should be documenting. ⇒ SWATJester
Ready Aim Fire! 04:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
- Not a good idea. You'd miss out on great memes like Magical Trevor, Kick in the V-tec, crab battle, "<insert name here> actor found waldo", Veloso, Yatta, etc. to include only things like O RLY? Chuck Norris, All your base/zero wing....while that may appeal to the casual user, it doesn't help clue them in on the internet meme subculture that we should be documenting. ⇒ SWATJester
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- Google/Alexa is a tough one because it is sort of controversial as a benchmark. Traditional media mention would be the #1 bullet point I'd want to see. If it has bled out into the non-wired world I think that is a pretty good indication of notabililty. Spawning Copycat/tribute memes is another good indication. If something is pervasive enough that people copy or parody it, it could be construed to be notable, even if the bastard children of the meme are not. Linking from other sites might be tricky. They would themselves have to be notable via WP:WEB and there would need to be significant linking from a decent number of notable sites... not just a bunch of blog links.--Isotope23 19:43, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
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- This may be controversial, but why not restrict decision on what's notable or not for a meme, to those editors familiar with internet memes? That way you won't get "non-notable" deletions on things like "CRAB BATTLE!!!" or "Raptor jesus! Where is your god now???", or "Kick in the V-tec" because those would be voted on by people familiar with the memes? Some other possible ideas: If it's mentioned in major print media, major techie media (though unfortunately due to verifiability, it can't link to a blog such as engadget or the like), has over X google hits (must be a suitably high number, and even then iffy because of googlebombing)? I'm just throwing out some suggestions, not saying I think they're good ideas. ⇒ SWATJester Ready Aim Fire! 04:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
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- We already have criteria at WP:WEB which grant notability of mentioned in the media, providing that media conforms to some form of reliable source, which tends to exclude blogs. HTH. Steve block talk 10:49, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
- This may be controversial, but why not restrict decision on what's notable or not for a meme, to those editors familiar with internet memes? That way you won't get "non-notable" deletions on things like "CRAB BATTLE!!!" or "Raptor jesus! Where is your god now???", or "Kick in the V-tec" because those would be voted on by people familiar with the memes? Some other possible ideas: If it's mentioned in major print media, major techie media (though unfortunately due to verifiability, it can't link to a blog such as engadget or the like), has over X google hits (must be a suitably high number, and even then iffy because of googlebombing)? I'm just throwing out some suggestions, not saying I think they're good ideas. ⇒ SWATJester
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Observation: The rules of notability aren't applied to internet memes. People tend to vote more for keeping them(with some exceptions). Why? Systemic bias. Wikipedia is mainly internet users, and we hate the idea of removing a reference to some unnotable joke that people found funny for a week. Making a policy wouldnt work: people don't follow existing rules when it comes to these memes. Seems hopeless?--Urthogie 21:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
- It might be, but at least a guideline that applies to them correctly (which, IMO, WP:WEB fails to do) can head some of them off, and we can say "but we've got a policy for memes specifically." --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEME?) 16:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- I've started it today at Wikipedia:Notability (memes).--Urthogie 16:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
