User talk:Basique/Archive 3

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Archiving warnings 2 Mediation Cabal case 3 Comic images 4 Your GIPU edits to Titans East 5 Suggestion. 6 RE: GIPU 7 68.80.95.27 8 Middle Eastern Superheroes 9 SHB update 10 Arkham Asylum

[edit] Archiving warnings

You may wish to have alook at Wikipedia:Removing warnings which notes that swiftly removing warnings, even through the expediency of the archive process, is considered bad form of sorts. Steve block Talk 21:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation Cabal case

Good evening/morning/afternoon.

You're named as a disputant in Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-08-16/Problems with user Basique. I've made a cursory review of the facts at hand and was wondering if you'd be willing to share your story on the issue. Please go to the case page and provide a brief, 500 word or less statement on the issues at play in the section marked "Basique's statement". CQJ 04:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comic images

I've noticed that you've uploaded a lot of comic images in PNG format. While PNG is great for clean and/or low colour images thanks to its lossless compression, it is terrible for high colour images and/or images with lots of artifacts (like Jpegs). At a cursory glance at least a few of the images you have uploaded seem to come from Jpeg sources. Using the original images, or using a program like Jpegcrop to losslessly crop them would result in much smaller filesizes. For example, the current image used in the infobox of Grim Reaper (comics) would take 48 seconds to download on dialup (I'm glad those days are long behind me), under ideal circumstances. While the full size image would take more than twice as long, 48 seconds is still an incredible period for such a small image. In fact, the same image in standard bitmap format wouldn't take much longer.--Drat (Talk) 10:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I prefer to use PNG.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Basique (talk • contribs) .

Yes, but what is the point of converting from Jpeg to PNG? You don't get back quality. All it does is balloon out the filesize. And if you need to crop a jpeg without losing quality there is a program called Jpegcrop that can do that.--Drat (Talk)

How about you contribute the way you like, and I do it the way I like? Have you seriously gone around pestering every single person who contibutes using PNGs? No you haven't because i've looked at your history. I prefer PNGs you prefer JPEGs how about we Agree to disagree and go our separate ways. Thank you, and good night. --Basique 16:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your GIPU edits to Titans East

Gidday. Firstly, always log in before editting. Second, please take note of all citations before flying off the handle with claims of citeless assertion. Finally, in the future, please try to make constructive edits rather than damaging the hard work of others. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 23:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me "Ace" you do understand that there is no Wikipedia rule about logging in to make edits right? This does not change the fact that the text you used in the body of your article is still not properly cited. --Basique 18:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion.

I think it needs to be remembered that this is a talk page and not an attack page. Not every suggestion needs to be greeted with angry retorts. Duggy 1138 12:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion Duggy. Did you have a question about a particular edit i've made? I'm asking this, because that is the primary use of this page. --Basique 14:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I kinda figured that the primary use of this page was to talk to you. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

But if you want a question, sure. You prefer PNG, is there any reason? I know nothing about the issue involved, but Drat discussed pros and cons of it. You just said you'd do what you want, but what are your reasons? Does it make uploading easier, do you prefer editing, do you prefer the look... what?

Duggy 1138 11:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I already explained myself Duggy, topic's closed. No the primary use of this page is not to question my actions on this page. And no I was not soliciting a question from you. Now unless you have a question or input on a particular page edit I think we are done here. --Basique 13:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I certainly never claimed that the primary purpose of this pay was to "question [your] actions on this page." As I said, "I kinda figured that the primary use of this page was to talk to you." Which is what I'm trying to do.

And I'm certain not questioning your actions on this page. I'm questioning your style on this page, on other talk page and in comments on edits. I feel it's too harsh. It's too much about you being right and anyone who disagrees being wrong. I'd prefer to see more friendly discussion than anger.

Of course, there may not be actual anger there, and I'm hoping there isn't, but it comes off that way, so you may want to pull back a little, is all.

Duggy 1138 01:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: GIPU

You used this term in your comments after editing Deadpool (comics) "Correcting stereotypical GIPU spelling". And you used it after one of my edits here Titans East "Revert and change. There. Citation is clearer. Hmph. The ignorance and nerve of some GIPUs.". What exactly does GIPU mean, and in what context are you using it? --Basique 16:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh! I'm positively THRILLED that you asked, Basi-Boy. AF: What does GIPU stand for? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 16:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Basi-Boy? I'm a 38 year old man, no one refers to me as "boy" anything. --Basique 18:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Given the context of your earlier comments, the use of "GIPU" might be misconstrued as incivility. Maybe it isn't a good idea to continue using the term? --68.80.95.27 18:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Nah. I see where you're coming from, Basi-Boy, but it's a perfectly fine term. No worse than "BTW" or "NPOV". I use it to quickly point out the difference between GIPUs and...say...registered Wikipedians. I'm not saying GIPUs shouldn't be allowed to edit, just know their accountless place. I mean...if you have an account, use it. Don't hide behind an IP address. Also, I've found that there are certain generalities relating to unregistered users. They do tend to make moire mistakes and be less aware of Wikipedia's policies. Also, they don't seem to respect registered users. I mean, if I didn't have the courage, integrity and/or dedication to register, I'd respect those who did. And you. You, yourself, seem to change (for the worse) when you're in that GIPU guise. What's up with that?

I'll admit, though, that I might take it too far sometimes. I'll try to tone it down a notch...at least for today. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 19:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh. Well, sorry. I have a little Pegasus Kroitzel in me.

Let's get something straight Ace I don't appreciate being referred to as boy anything in your comments. I consider GIPU a slur, and Basi-Boy offensive. If I do not choose to log in when editing, that is my business. --Basique 19:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Dang. You're pretty sensitive, dude. (You don't mind "dude", right?) I'm not trying to be offensive, you know. Playfully assertive, at worst. I'm sorry to have hit a nerve, really. Oh, BTW, are you a brother? ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 19:17, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll accept your apology in good faith and move on. --Basique 19:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 68.80.95.27

If this IP is indeed you, then please log in as Basique and acknowledge same. I'm concerned this IP may be attempting to impersonate you. --Durin 18:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• • Thank you. --Durin 18:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

This is the first time i've had to log in because someone didn't get that. Both accounts, exact same IP. Hence the name stays blue when I change it. Thats why the IP's talk page links to this talk page. --Basique 18:50, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

No prob glad to know someone's looking out. --Basique 18:52, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Eastern Superheroes

That's definitely a better name. "Arab"? Nope, yours is the better choice. Doczilla 07:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --Basique 11:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SHB update

Hi there. Please notice that some fields are not appearing as a result of your recent edits. —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 19:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

They will, the template is being edited all you had to do was wait. Your workaround will help for now because of the legacy support. --Basique 10:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Forgot to quote this "Do not delete a parameter - leave the field blank if there is nothing to enter." Don't delete fields from any of the other SHB templates you edit, just add the real_name field back in and leave alter_ego blank for now. I left a note that the Alter Ego fields were broken here Template talk:Superherobox. --Basique 10:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arkham Asylum

The issue of Arkham Asylum's dual role as mental institution and prison was explained in it's section on the List of penal institutions in comics page. Next time please follow the links which explain this instead of making uninformed kneejerk edits. --Basique 22:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Arbitrary explanation doesn't explain the actual issue. Arkham isn't a correctional facility (look at the other facilities on the list of penal institutions, to see what I mean). It isn't a facility for simple incarceration, nor is it a "penal" insitution (penal = penalty). Please don't re-add without specifc instance citations/references which can show otherwise. (Broadmoor as an allegory is also uncited, btw.) - jc37 22:32, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've already re-added, and you've been provided with more than enough references proving that you are wrong. --Basique 22:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "right and wrong" it's a matter of citation.

If I've been shown, I don't see it. First, can you show a reference from ANYWHERE that links arkham to broadmoor? Second, can you show a reference from ANYWHERE that arkham is a penal institution? Give me issue number, give me a quote from Finger, Kane, or Sprang. How about DC's Who's Who? There are many graphic novels on the subject, character arcs, not to mention the long publication history of the Batman franchise.

Without such evidence, it simply does not belong on the list. - jc37 22:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

If you wish to continue this discussion, this topic Arkham Asylum arbitration has been created on the WikiProject Comics discussion page. --Basique 22:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

There are plenty of references in the comics to it being both a prison and a hospital, the term "incarcerated" at Arkham is used quite a few times, armed guards patrol Arkham for a reason. The comparison with Broadmoor is correct, if you personally do not wish to believe so that's fine, but the facts are the facts. According to the Who's Who entry the "patients" at Arkham are criminally insane "inmates" culled from Gotham's penal system. Arkham is divided up into Minimum Security and Maximum Security "Cell Blocks". I can post a scan of the article if you'd like. --Basique 22:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's the image link, limited time offer Arkham Asylum. --Basique 23:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Nod, Read the second paragraph. It disproves your theory. - jc37 23:11, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

What exactly was disproven? This is exactly what Broadmoor does did you read this description psychiatric hospitals for the criminally insane? I'd think the penal schematics would be the icing on the cake, how many hospitals refer to sections as "maximum security cell block" or "isolation cell block". --Basique 23:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

They are described as a combination hospital and prison for the "criminally insane,". I more than think my point is made, and I am perfectly willing to abide by the Project's judgement on the issue if we both can't come to an agreement. Taking down the image now. --Basique 23:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's the paragraph I mentioned from the Who's Who entry:

• "Founded in 1921 by Dr. Amadeus Arkham, on a parcel of land deeded to him by his mother, who had herself been a victim of mental illness, the asylum was the first such facility of its kind in Gotham county. Dr. Arkham, a vigorous social reformer, had been appaled by the conditions in the Gotham penal system, where those who were not mentally responsible for their actions were incarcerated side-by-side with hardened career criminals, and he was determined to improve the situation. To that end, hetransformed his ancestral home into a high-security mental facility, and staffed it with some of the most prominent psychologists and physicians of the time."

1. "...first such facility of its kind..."
2. "...appalled by the conditions in the Gotham penal system..."
3. "...a high security mental facility..."

Your question: "What exactly was disproven?" - the contention that Arkham Asylum is a penal facility.

Your statement: "This is exactly what Broadmoor does did you read this description psychiatric hospitals for the criminally insane?" - Just because this is what broadmoor does (and I'm not making a judgement about it atm), does not mean that it's been proven that Arkham and Broadmoor are the same thing. To say so without citation (proof) constitutes original research.

Your statement: "I'd think the penal schematics would be the icing on the cake", how many hospitals refer to sections as "maximum security cell block" or "isolation cell block"." - check out more information about other institutions for mental health.

This could become even more complex, when on considers that when some "regular" hospitals (as well as other medical institutions) have "lock down" sections (of various names), and some penal complexes have medical facilities, except that that simple paragraph states very clearly what Arkham Asylum is: "a high security mental facility"; as opposed to what it is not: an additional facility in the Gotham penal system. - jc37 23:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah I see where you're coming from now, but no one ever said it was part of the Gotham Penal System, it's just referred to as a "Penal Facility". Penal can mean

• of or relating to punishment; "penal reform"; "penal code"
• serving as or designed to impose punishment; "penal servitude"; "a penal colony"
• subject to punishment by law; "a penal offense"

It does not have to be part of the penal system to be a penal institution, it can be military, or even an offshore corporate facility, or a part of the public health system. Inmates in such a state facility are not only kept there for their own personal welfare, they are kept there to protect the public. --Basique 23:55, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

In other words, "penal = punishment". Which is not the goal of Arkham Asylum. While it could arguably be considered an incarceratory facility (in addition to a mental health facility, as most asylums were/are), it is not a penal facility. - jc37 00:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's a review of Arkham Asylum: Living Hell that refers to "prison guards" and "inmates". Granted not the best exampe, but it is one nonetheless. And here's a decidedly sparse everything2.com link which refers to it as a prison. --Basique 00:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Wait here we go, from DC Comics.com the solicitations for Batman Arkham Asylum.

“

In this painted graphic novel, the inmates of Arkham Asylum have taken over Gotham's mental illness detention center on April Fool's Day and demand Batman in exchange for their prisoners. Accepting their demented challenge, Batman is forced to live and endure the personal hells of the Joker, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Two Face and many other of his sworn enemies in order to save the innocents and retake the prison. During his run through this absurd gauntlet, the Darknight Detective's own sanity is in jeopardy.

”

Bold is my emphasis. If its referred to as a prison by DC Comics then it is a penal institution, that should be proof enough. --Basique 00:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe we wasted so much time on this. : ) I'll check back tomorrow morning. have a good night JC. --Basique 00:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Asylums for the criminally insane rarely exist any more. Most were done away with in favor of placing those patients in forenic units in state mental hospitals. That said, an asylum specifically for the criminally insane, among those that still exist, must be licensed as both a hospital and a penal institution. However, I would recommend the more modern term correctional facility for the whole list. Doczilla 03:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Better yet, just say "prisons and criminal asylums". But honestly, Basique, even though you're right that DC solicitations call it a prison, it's true that you've got to stop being so confrontational. You could easily have asked for an outside opinion without invoking a term like arbitration. Wryspy 08:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The rights and feelings of others are not something that [deleted] cares much about.

If you make a mistake he burns you and burns you hard.

If he disagrees with you he acts as if is correct and has sole rights to the contents of wiki-entries.

If he realises you have a point instead of discussing it he informs you the discussion is over.

He likes to envoke terms like arbitation and puts people on watch-lists for minor offences as part of his strong arm-tacits.

One of my first experiences here was to be abused by him, and I nearly left in disgust. He really doesn't come off as a very nice person, and ignores any suggestion that this may be a bad thing.

Duggy 1138 11:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I have to backtrack. I remembered legal opinions on the matter. Official stances are moving away from saying a hospital can be a prison. So either find a better name for the list or remove Arkham and Ravencroft. Or note within the article that it may be inappropriate for DC to refer to Arkham as a prison. Doczilla 07:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

My apologies for leaving the discussion so abruptly yesterday. I went to my collection to look for my copy of 'Arkham Asylum, and while doing that, "real life" intruded : )

I also was rather annoyed to find, or rather not find, my copy : (

I any case, before we "go on", I want to thank you (Basique) for keeping the conversation civil. When you reverted the change (again), even after the request for citations, I had little hope (though still hope indeed : )

(Back to topic) In a time, when even the writers at DC (or Marvel, for that matter) can't keep the continuity straight, and where even comic book issues are sometimes not even considered "canon", or at least "citable"; attempting to use an ad-writer's (or reviewer's, for that matter) choice of words as a reference isn't the strongest. (Part of the reasons I went looking for my copy, was to see what was actually printed in it/on it... sigh at its apparent loss.)

That aside, as I mentioned above, I have no arguement with anyone calling Arkham a "prison". Gotham itself has been referred to in comics as a "prison", not to mention many other euphemistic references. My concern is the word "penal". Root of "penalize"; meaning to punish.

Doczilla and Wryspy gave some good thoughts and examples above. While I'm not certain even "correctional facility" is correct in usage for a criminal asylum, it is much preferable to "penal" institution.

Let's see if we can find a better name for the list page. - jc37 11:54, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• Duggy and Wryspry read the top of the page please, if you have nothing to contribute to the current discussion, then please refrain from personal attacks.
• Considering this discussion between myself and JC was more about coming to a consensus than an actual arguement, both your comments are extremely out of place.
• And Duggy please do not use "Basic-boy" in reference to me, that is definately a personal attack.
• Going by this and the discussion on the relevant talk page I consider this rather silly matter amicably resolved.
• Thank you for your suggestion Doczilla, but as has already been proven in the page's discussion there is no need to rename it. --Basique 11:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

(Even though you apparently posted the above while I was typing my response, I posted my response unchanged.)

First, I don't know what past issues you all may have had in the past, but please, calm down. As I noted above, so far everything's been (mostly) civil. That said, Wryspy is correct that "arbitration" can sound worse than I presume you meant it (considering its current use on Wikipedia). I read the WikiProject talk page and brushed off the usage, so no worries, from me.

I disagree with your final presumption, obviously. Though I do appreciate that you finally have started looking for citations.

My concern (as noted several times above) is the use of the word "penal". I suggest that we find a more "inclusive" word. - jc37 12:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that, it's tough finding the right word for this topic. Maybe "Correctional Institutions" would be a better term? It's more inclusive. --Basique 12:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

---

Comments below added post archiving

I also moved this discussion (minus the personal attack discussion between Basique and Duggy) to that talk page for unity. - jc37 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

While I'm still not certain about the terminology, I agree that correctional facility is better than penal institution. I moved the article from "penal institution" ot "correctional facility", and fixed redirects. - jc37 13:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Respect is a two way street Basic. Me and others have asked, nicely, over and over for you to calm down. It would be nice if you refrained from the personal attacks and threats.

I'm not sure how "Basic-boy" is a personal attack, but, hey, whatever.

I'm glad the on-topic issue is coming to resolution, it's good to see that happen.

Duggy 1138 13:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

---