Talk:Beagle

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page) Needs more refs. It's rather strange that there's what appears to be some sort of gallery in the middle of the appearance section. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 I've re-arranged the page a little bit 2 Major Caption Issue 3 Image Concern 4 Stupidity 5 Age 6 Bug 7 Photo caption 8 too many pictures? 9 pocket beagles 10 Doughnut Formation?

[edit] I've re-arranged the page a little bit

I'd like to keep improving and expanding this article, so I added more to the history section, including an evolution section, based on what I've read in Dan Brown's "The Beagle Handbook." I referenced his book at the bottom of the page if anyone thinks I made all that stuff up. - Zone46 00:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Caption Issue

I have been making a change in the Beagle article in good faith and some people seem to want to start a revert war with me. The image in question shows a beagle smiling, while using the caption to describe it's sense of smell. This is a terrible image to use, as it does not illustrate the beagle's sense of smell at all. It only shows it's wonderful ability to smile, and possibly it's ability at sticking it's tounge out. We need to find a compromise where this image is remove, or the caption changed. Otherwise, I will continue to edit this page until a solution can be reached. How about removing the image until a suitable one showing a beagle tracking or as a drug sniffing dog can be found? The only other possible solution is to change the caption. Please respond. Quickly. 83.31.186.247 02:35, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

This new smelling photo is good for the caption! Now if only we could find a place to add the other photo, with an appropriate caption. Maybe move the one of the beagle smelling to the "Working Dog" section and then add back the older one to the temperment section with a caption that says "Beagles are a dog with a great temperment, and if socialized properly are great with kids." 83.31.186.247 03:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for finally stating your reasons; it makes more sense now. When you edited, the caption read, "The Beagle has a very well-developed sense of smile." There's no such thing as a "sense of smile," and that's why I (and others) kept reverting it. If your concern was that the caption didn't properly describe the picture, I wish you would've stated that three days ago -- or 20 days ago, when you first edited this. I hope you understand why we thought you were vandalizing; our reverts were likewise made in good faith. --Birdhombre 04:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I did have sincere reasons as for constantly changing the caption, and would sometimes place them in the edit summary of posts; but I also thought the edit was silly and harmless. Plus, to me it was quite cute since everybody knows that there is no such thing as a sense of smile but the dog was actually doing a lot more smiling than smelling. It was cute to check back and see the caption still in place, but I understand the frustration felt and decidedly un-cute reaction to constant reverting. I apologise, and propose a stub be created for "Sense of Smile" exploring the nether regions of undiscovered somatosensory receptors in animals and humans which lead to smiling. Just kidding! 83.31.186.247 06:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think moving the beagle smelling picture over to the "Working Dog" section, exspecially since I had to rub Sour Cream and Onion on the floor to get my dog in that position. :p ChadyWady|Talk 23:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Concern

As a beagle owner, I'm disappointed by the picture, as it doesn't show the beagle's glorious tail, or "flag", an essential aid to location in the field, especially when long grass obscures this relatively short-legged dog. Anyone got a better photo?Rrabbit 16:33 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)

If you have the Beagle to hand, do you have a camera? Maybe you could take a better photo. If you need any help with image and file size and so on, I can help there. Just give me a shout -- sannse 16:47 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Unfortunately, though a beagle owner I'm not a camera owner (one expensive toy is enough!) I do have a nice shot taken by a professional photographer, but it is only head and shoulders, so not as good as yours. Do you think I should add some stuff about beagling, i.e. hunting on foot with beagles, to the page? Rrabbit 09:09 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It's not mine, mine is the Border Collie :) I have the camera, but no Beagle. Information on beagling sounds good. And any other information you have on the breed history and so on would be a great addition. You might want to look at the dog breeds WikiProject for some ideas on article structure. Enjoy! -- sannse 12:55 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've a added some notes on the beagle's temperament, beagling, and use as sniffer dogs. Hope you approve. Rrabbit 14:57 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

And I got that tail you wanted ;) -- sannse

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I've removed the external link at the bottom of the page again - Elf is right, it is redundant because all the standards are linked in the table (which is the standard way of listing them on all the dog breed articles). The link in the text was redundant too - I didn't see that one earlier :) -- sannse (talk) 08:56, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I didn't see that one. My apologies. -- Djinn112 11:19, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

--- This needs to be added ...

While beagles are rarely used for drug detection, they are the breed of choice of the Department of Agriculture to detect food items in luggage. The force is called the Beagle Brigade and they wear a green jacket. The reason the beagle was choosen is because they are small, easy to care for, and because they do not intimidate non-dog lovers.

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Thanks to Elf for correcting my uncapitalizing of the breed names. I'm still somewhat new here and didn't realize that capitalizing breeds was Wiki style. ffirehorse 16:30, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No problem! I was going to bip over to your user page and make a note there but wiki's been so slow this morning that I didn't get thru my other edits first. Capitalization varies so much from project to project on wikipedia and it's hard to figure it out even after you've been here a while. If you're interested in dogs, you might want to check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds. And welcome to Wikipedia! Elf | Talk 16:55, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Question: Is the statement "the smallest of the scent-hunting hounds" correct? Is the Dachshund not a scenthound? -- Freak

Humm, I think you are right. I've removed the sentence -- sannse (talk) 20:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be "smallest of the pack-hunting hounds?" -- Ralphmerridew 02:25, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That sounds right. Maybe someone can confirm it's true and it can go in the article? -- sannse (talk) 18:47, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Stupidity

I've heard AND read Beagles are the stupidest dog breed on earth. This article states they're intelligent. Now what's correct? --Abdull 18:35, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, i have never met a beagle so i couldent give a direct yes or no for my opinion. But every dog has varying degrees of intelligence, and depending on what you believe true intelligence is will, of course, give different results.

Some people believe a dog is intellegent because it is willing to please its owner, thus, willing to learn more "tricks". Others believe that that is the more unintelligent type of dog as it rarely thinks for itself and will only do what any human tells it to. remember "intelligence" and "obedience" are two very different things, as is independance! Tekana 21:16, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Please read dog intelligence for a little expansion on this concept. Elf | Talk 22:27, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I can say, both from reading and personal experience, that you have got the beagle personality backwards. The are notoriously disobedient and hard to train. Even basic commands like "come here" and "stay" can be challenging. You may be confused because they are often classified as "loyal" and "affectionate" dogs. This is not the same as obedience. Anecdotally, they will knock down baby gates so that they can come upstairs to be in the same room as their owner, though every beagle I have seen (quite a few) also likes to run around in the woods by itself for a few hours when it can get the chance. I would say that the "Temperament" section is spot on except the "never let it off the leash". If you let them off the leash, they will run away, and probably not come back when you call them, but they are very loyal, and will come back to check on you frequently. Eventually they get bored and come back. It is more a matter of having a safe place to let them off the leash, with no nearby roads, or other places which might be dangerous for them to explore, they will explore.

I think in general they are a very smart breed. I put a beagle under a dog intelligence test and it scored very high, however you cannot train this one to not sleep on the bed... or your neck while your sleeping. Mine is stubborn, so you just have to be rougher with them. Mine isn't easily discouraged. I notice that the Beagle's famous howl scream isn't highlighted. YOu know, the one that sounds like your beating it when really its just excited you came home.

I have been to a kennel where there are at least 150 beagles. When I came in, all of them crowded around us. As soon as I waved my hand, most of them walked away... They were also sniffing EVERYTHING, maybe that's why people think that they're stupid. I think that beagles are very smart, but pretty much hide behind their sense of smell. My beagle does, at least.

I think it's too subjective to say that beagles are intelligent without any scientific evidence supporting your claim. Without other kinds of testing supporting your argument, it's best to adhere to this article[[1]], even though it's based solely on ability to follow commands. --Tribe4ever 23:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Uh, Beagles are not in any way unintelligent. I own four. Dogs do not come any smarter.

Regarding problem-solving to remove obstacles from their stubborn strong will, I have never seen a smarter dog than a beagle. I have observed after-the-fact evidence of a beagle use spatial reasoning (and perhaps leverage) to tear off a screwed-on grating that covered a hole that allowed access to a basement when it was outside during a thunderstorm. This was a rural outdoor beagle who had never been in that basement before. As a pup, that beagle had witnessed a gunshot that killed an animal. For the rest of his life, he thought thunder was a gun and that animals can die from the loud bang. I doubt that there is a more willful dog than a beagle. The beagle's intelligence is directly tied to its will. Its will is directly tied to answering the question "So what is in it for me?" —optikos 04:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I grew up with Beagles as hunting dogs and have found them to be incredably intellengent. They are stubborn, but they remember everything, have great problem solving abilities, are fiercly independent and have an insatiable curiousity (which gets them into trouble). I watched Ticker (a small blue tick) chase a cat into an old barn and then climb into the rafters after the poor feline. When the cat climbed up to get away, Ticker looked around, saw a board that went from floor to rafters at a diagonal, and ran up it to get the cat. She had never been in the barn, knew that she couldn't climb the same way as the cat did (up the wall) and immediately found another way to achieve her goal. I've owned and trained many beagles, and all of them have been brilliant hunting dogs. They just don't have a "stop button" like labs and setters do.

One of my beagles has learned to open the screen door. The good thing is that if the screen door is closed, with the sliding glass door open, it's probably warm and dry, so he can come in. Valley winters consist of rain, but he can't get in during that. As for commands, my female beagle quickly learned "Get the kitty." Not a challenging trick for beagles, though. I've seen the girl trick the boy into digging an escape under the fence to the point she can get out, but he cannot. She hasn't tried it in a while, she's probably picked up on the way the boy turns her in by howling. Poor guy can't take being alone. --Kirby-oh 06:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the person who claimed such a thing could say that because it sounds as if they've never even owned a beagle.

[edit] Age

I think that the average age for Beagles might be a bit misleading because owners treat them very differently. Beagles are curious and stubborn to the point of ignoring immediate peril until it's too late, so those that are allowed to wander will tend to have shorter lifespans than those that are kept in fenced-in yards just due to accidental death. I have known (and known of) many fenced-in Beagles who live to the ages of 17-20. I wonder if the average lifespan of 12-15 years (as is on the page now) is due to the premature deaths of many outdoor and hunting Beagles, skewing the average down. (Still 19:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC))

It's possible. Consider that statements of human life expectancy also take into consideration accident, illness, proximity of loaded guns, childbirth, stupidity, etc. Dog ages are challenging these days in addition because apparently longevity has increased greatly in recent decades with improved diet and medical care, at least in some areas, so many dogs are living longer anyway. Most of these breed ages come from references such as recent dog encyclopedias--I hope :-) at least, the ages I've added or checked. If you have a citeable reference that can provide other reliable information, of course feel free to update the page and add a Reference. Elf | Talk 22:11, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I have a Beagle that has just turned 10 years of age, and with a large amount of attention and training, he is obedient to a fault. While it may seem impossible, I have been able to break that habit of putting the nose to the ground and "off we go" Beagles are more like human children then just about any breed I've seen. If allowed, they will charge into danger without a care in the world...just following their noses. But they can be taught more words then just the usual "sit, stay, shake, etc" I've taught mine to "slow down, come here, and sometimes to go a specific direction I want him to" But it all boils down to patience and repetition.

They are very much like children.

[edit] Bug

Please verify the article Bug (dog breed) contributed by an anot not long time ago. mikka (t) 01:45, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photo caption

I love the picture of the beagle sleeping on the black sofa, but the caption reads, The rare instance of a Beagle taking a break. I don't mean to get all squirrely, but "rare" seems POV to me, especially since my family has always owned very lazy beagles who seemed content to sleep all day! Does anyone else think this should be reworded? We could just change it to, A Beagle taking a break. --Birdhombre 21:15, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. Elf | Talk 21:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

That's actually a picture I took of my beagle Noodle, and the original caption was something like "Beagle taking a break". Whoever added "the rare instance" never met Noodle, he's the laziest dog in the world. Glad you like the picture though! 69.113.219.231 05:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Just for the protocol. I had a beagle 4 years ago. I just miss him (he was a person) very, very much. :) Painbearer 22:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I lost a favorite dog 3 years ago. And ditto. Elf | Talk 22:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] too many pictures?

anyone else think this article has too many pictures already? i'm certain that we don't need any more on here. this article is on the threshold of be coming a website for posting every wikipedian's pet beagle. it's sort of embarrassing. any thoughts?

Sparsefarce 16:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

It does get pretty cluttered. When I added my pic because I thought there weren't enough, but two or three more is too much. I think it looks fine now. - Zone46 02:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pocket beagles

I added a reference to support the statement about pocket beagles - this reference is quite a bit POV (warning consumers away from modern versions of these dogs) - so if someone could find a better reference (from a book maybe?) that would be great. - Trysha ^(talk) 17:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doughnut Formation?

I have a question about the caption on the picture of the beagle curled up under the heading "Working Life." Doughnut formation? I think the original meaning of that was just to be silly, but it came across to me as being standard lingo regarding beagles. This makes me feel as though there are other fomations that beagles exhibit. I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words right now, but does anyone else understand what I'm saying? It's especially strange since doughnut is linked to a page about actual doughnuts, which really have nothing to do with beagles (although not if my beagle has anything to say about it!) Thanks Amakali 06:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen many other beagle formations, including the "Food for me?" formation, involving standing in the doorway, and wagging the tail slowly, while staring, and the "A walk?!??!/one!" formation, consisting of racing around the house wildly, dragging the retractable leash with no regard to the tendency to get it stuck on objects. I do think it should stay, though. --Kirby-oh 06:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)