User talk:Elf

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All New: 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 Orphaned: 500 1001 1501

Elf is taking a long wikibreak and will be back on Wikipedia probably at random long intervals for minor edits and sometimes to check for messages, but 2 years of one's life is a long time to devote to something for which one doesn't get paid, no matter how interesting it has been.

See also:

• Archive dogs (dog-article related topics)
• Archive Calif (California-related topics)
• Archive 1 (assorted newbie stuff & tips, mineral project, kudos & thanks, misc )
• Archive 2
• Archive 3 (random stuff through June '05)
• Archive 4 (random stuff through Feb '06; might sort thru it later)

[edit] Sleet Versus Hail

Yes, what you've been seeing in California IS hail. SLEET falls with winter storms, not thunderstorms. As a professional meteorologist, I don't know how many times I've wanted to slap people for getting sleet and hail confused (the people on the sleet page among them ;-) ). You virtually never get sleet out in California, but hail occurs fairly often. On the other hand, sleet is much more common in New York. Check out this graphic [[1]] for SLEET, and this page [[2]] for HAIL formation. Also, here's another good page on the differences [[3]]. Famartin 15:49, 4 March 2006

[edit] Double redirect cleanup award

For your help with the May 16, 2005 double redirect cleanup project you are given this award.

[edit] Cool song

I heard you wrote this [4]? Nice! Radiant_>|< 14:57, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

For excellent edit after edit after edit after edit, I award you the Tireless Contributor award.

By the way, your dogs are adorable, especially Jake! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 20:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome! By the way, if it is your birthday, Happy Birthday! smurrayinchester^{(User), (Talk)} 21:56, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meet The World's Smallest Police Dog

[5] (—The preceding unsigned comment was added by SirIsaacBrock (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Copyrights for Boggle Photo

Sorry about not citing. I took the photos myself and forgot that I had to release the rights from myself. Hope all is good now. Black arrow 01:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] reworked boggle

sorry about the problems I was causing. I put the copyright info in the drop down and not in the body as well. Now hopefully all is good. Black arrow 05:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] tons

In your edit summary on Zion National Park in response to by editorial comment in the article about identity of tons, you said "short ton if it came from any american documentation which seems 98% likely".

However, if it in fact came directly from an American soils sciences journal or most any other scientific source, its about a 98% chance that the tons are metric tons (they might, of course, be "Mg" (megagrams) in a journal like that). Gene Nygaard 03:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cite journal

Hi. I found your message on template talk:cite journal#authorlink is broken. I responded there. Please have a look. Sorry for being so late (better late than never ;-). --Adrian Buehlmann 16:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yests

Not at all. Thanks for the edits. BTW, what is the protocol, does one normally reply on their own talk page or on that of the other party (like this).--Counsel 05:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manzanita

Hi Elf - curious why you said "can't have 3rd-level header w/out 2nd-level" - it is perfectly possible to have this, and it looks a lot better without the heavily underlined 2nd-level header in a short page like that - MPF 22:32, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Keep up the good work! :-) MPF 22:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

9 days is a close one! AFAIK, the only appearnce effects I can think of is in a TOC, which only appears when there's more than 3 headers (when funny things happen to the numbering in the TOC). In my browser, 2nd level headers give an ugly underline right across the page, making it look like a much more complete change of subject (like a line of 4 hyphens); it would be nice if the refs/ext links could also take a 3rd level header, but 2nd level headers seem (unlike other headers) to be a definite wiki policy (so I leave them!). Maybe I should raise it at wherever header policy is discussed and get 3rd levels OK'd for short articles - MPF 22:59, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Min Pin

Hello Elf.

I normally agree with most of your changes, but you made a change to the Minpin page that I disagree with.

There was an external link I placed on the page a year ago for a rescue organization. The link has been there virtually since the inception of the page, so I guess I am a bit confused why you would suddenly think that it should be removed.

I understand WP:NOT, but I going to replace the link for two reaons: 1) It is informative and 2) Its been there for almost a year and a half. I do not think that 2 links is a problem.

Roodog2k [[User_talk:Roodog2k | (Hello there!)]] 19:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Min Pin, part 2

I would disagree, only because if a rescue organization is large and notable, I do not see why it cannot be included. I understand that things change over time. I guess that I am not quite following what you're saying. :(

Roodog2k [[User_talk:Roodog2k | (Hello there!)]] 20:19, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replying to Raw feeding article editing advice

Thanks for taking the time to write an explanation of your editorial policy. The article that I first edited appeared to be exclusively angled at dog feeders and excessively biased towards processed feed manufacturers. Now that you have explained that it is "controversial" it will need much more attention and work to even begin to contain a fair picture of the amount of spin that is put out by manufacturers against any form of feeding except their own product.

The Salon.com article is an op ed that appears to have been undertaken for "colour". Do you seriously consider that a quote mined with third party references is worth throwing in? I can produce ten times these within a few minutes. But will they increase understanding of the basic "nutrition" argument? Your selected quote really says nothing more than that the British vet association agrees that there are dangers in feeding raw food. It doesn't say that other forms of feeding are NOT dangerous. And it doesn't say that raw feeding cannot be accomplished safely. Take the quote down please.

Two questions: Do you derive income from dog training, breeding?

                        Do you derive income from a pet feed manufacturer?

I am an Australian and you will have to allow for cultural differences in the approach to feeding animals that I may inject into the article.

Moving discussion to Talk:Raw feeding. Elf | Talk 20:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] extra question on Raw feeding editing

Can you explain why some .com external references are ok to include and why others are not?

The explanation should have some basis in where a .com site gets its income from. Thanks.

[edit] extra on Raw feeding editing

No, I'm not tired - Ha!

The previous 2 articles in your talk list, plus this one are my own work

````

[edit] Min Pin part 3

OK, I reread what you said. I think we're crossing wires on this conversation, b/c your page keeps changing after I type something. :P

I placed the link there not to endorse the rescue effort per se, rather to 1) demonstrate that it exists and 2) providing alternate breed information. You have to excuse me today, as I just retured from vacation and have been nicotine free for 5 days, so I'm a little frayed. That rescue group provides some breed information.

Also, I try to get on Wikipedia as often as possible to see how this page and a few others are doing. Sadly, my job frowns heavily on Wikipeida work, and I have little time to devote to Wikipedia at home b/c of family obligations. So, if vandalism has appeared on this page for any stretch of time and I missed it, my apologies.

Roodog2k [[User_talk:Roodog2k | (Hello there!)]]

[edit] Edits

Thanks for the edits.--Counsel 21:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hunting Dog

Think those were too long? You made me stay up late; how can I pass up a hunting dog article that needs attention?!--Counsel 07:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SR 85

The proposed move was to California State Highway 85, not to State Route 85 (California). The latter fits disambiguation conventions, as there is no such thing as "California State Route 85". --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 22:28, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black dog

My dog.

Sorry about that. Is that your dog? It looks identical to my dog. Do you have any other photos? Toertn 22:29, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation pages

Hey there--It looks to me as if you've around on Wikipedia long enough to have encountered disambiguation pages and to have read the manual of style page on disambiguation pages, so I'm not sure why you keep futzing with the Martingale page to make it nonstandard. It's just a disambiguation page; there's nothing special about the introductory phrase that needs nonstandard formatting or phrasing. If you're annoyed because it's no longer the primary page about a mathematical topic, I'm sorry. It's still just a standard disambiguation page. Elf | Talk 00:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Why must disambiguation pages be a special exception to the standard rule that if one writes about a word, rather than using the word to write about what it refers to, then one italicizes it? That rule is stated in Wikipedia:Manual of Style and I think in the Chicago Manual of Style. Michael Hardy 00:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elf

Hello Elf, I could certainly use the support of an administrator for my admin nomination. One more admin helping the dog project would be a good thing -:) Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Nomination cabal/SirIsaacBrock Cordially SirIsaacBrock 23:00, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Message rec'd... check out the article I just wrote Monkey-baiting SirIsaacBrock 22:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

i am sorry for our conflict on the dobermann section, but i refuse to back down from the truth, the truth is more important than pleasing the public, wouldn't you agree

[edit] Dog ancestry'

Opinion request: I notice the dog article has a section on the ancestory of the dog as a wolf. Do you feel it might be time to create a separate article Origins of the dog or of similiar title? Cordially SirIsaacBrock 17:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Will respond on Talk:Dog. Elf | Talk 20:46, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your wikibreak

Your wikibreak is about like my wikibreak :) - Trysha <sup>(talk)</sup> 09:59, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caps

Thanks for the correction. In one of my books the author (Charles Fergus) asserts that only references to proper nouns should be capitalized in breed names i.e. Boykin spaniel or Labrador retriever or poodle. I was about to ask a question about it on the dog project as I could not find a Wikipedia policy. I will stick with the caps from here on in.--Counsel 23:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Yea, I think the capitalization is better. When it is lowercase it catches your eye as being out of place. I think the Wikipolicy is the right way to go. BTW I worried abouot disturbing you Wikibreak by working on the dog pages :)--Counsel 01:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

No sympathy here. I am a FL boy in Spokane. It is cold!

[edit] PD

I think the release is the right way to go. I am going to make the switch.

[edit] Image:0407-06-06WeakSubway wb.jpg

Hi, Elf. Any idea why this image -- as used as Subway (underpass) -- will not allow itself to be re-sized? Should you answer this, please bear in mind that you will be addressing a technoramus... ;) -- Picapica 21:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] page move discussion

Hi! There's a page move discussion going on at Talk:State Route 2 (California) that you may be interested in. Thanks, Gentgeen 08:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interested?

Being the only other person in the Wikipedians by alma mater category for SCU, I thought you might be interested in the userbox I just made, {{user SCU}}:

Dave Runger 22:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Your dogs r soooooooooooooo cute! I don't have any pets:(--Divya da animal lvr 20:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Dobermann

it's not point of view it's matter of fact it happens all the time to me or anyone else with a dobermann, in England the official name is black and tanned and i didn't put half of the stuff on there so leave me alone.

[edit] Hawaiian Poi Dog

Excuse me, but I beg to differ. The Hawaiian Poi Dog is a breed, not a mix. It has a set type, and should be considered a breed. True, modern mixed breeds in Hawaii today are called Hawaiian Poi Dogs, but there was a true pure breed at one time, which people even tried to reconstruct, but failed. Why do you think it is a just a mix? Vortex 05:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dog's photos

Could you give your dog's photos to commons? Thanks Pleple2000 14:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming the "Kelpie_(dog)" page

G'day Elf. I noticed you undid my rename of the Kelpie article the other day. OK (remembering that I don't own the page!), I confess that I didn't open the discussion on the List_of_Dog_Breeds, but I did propose it on the Kelpie Talk page, back in April. Obviously, nobody now reads that page...

I have opened a proposal on the LDB page, using my original arguments, and adding rebuttals to your edit summary. Basically, the ANKC represents only show Kelpies, which by definition are not Kelpies -- the argument is that Kelpies (as represented by the WKC) were bred as working dogs where conformation was, is and never will be important, and the name has never included the word "Australian". I should mention that the WKC (the primary authority on the breed) does not use the adjective "Australian" anywhere. The term "Australian Kelpie" is of UK origin, back when Australia was a British colony, and crept into the FIC from England. Further, looking at the "Maltese_(dog)" naming convention, there are only two uses of the word Kelpie, the other being a malevolent Celtic water spirit. Taking things to their illogical extreme, one might insist that the Poodle be renamed "French Poodle", or the Shi-Tzu to "Chinese Shi-Tzu"... Gordon | Talk, 22 June 2006 @06:45 UTC

Sorry Elf, LDB=List of Dog Breeds :) I've also made a suggestion/proposal in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dog_breeds/Templates to address the kennel club/breed standard question -- it's hidden in the "Dog Registries" section, about halfway down. I think I will sub-section it there so people can notice it. Gordon | Talk, 24 June 2006 @02:35 UTC

Hi Elf -- I've just copied the relevant part of your reply to the rename proposal on List of Dog Breeds. Gordon | Talk, 2 July 2006 @05:49 UTC

[edit] Rabbit agility

Hi. I saw you've recently contributed to Dog agility. Can you take a look at Rabbit agility and Rabbit hopping and let me know if 1) they are real and 2) they belong in Wikipedia? Thanks in advance. GRBerry 22:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I wanted to be sure this wasn't just something made up in school one day, and you have established that. GRBerry 15:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:WritersCramp appears to be back

Greetings Elf, after reviewing this RfC about User:WritersCramp I thought you should be aware of this WP:ANI report concerning User:SirIsaacBrock and his new sockpuppet User:Porky Pig. Thanks. (→Netscott) 23:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

oh look he has a perma-block. - Trysha <sup>(talk)</sup> 21:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping me posted, folks. Elf | Talk 16:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Books

I've heard you say you have quite a collection of dog books. Any chance you could list them for us? Vortex 00:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I added User:Elf/dog book database and I also included a link to it from my main user page where I say that I have a lot of books about dogs. :-) Enjoy. Don't know how useful it is without ISBNs or detailed descriptions, but it's what I've got. Elf | Talk 21:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh wow. This is extremely helpful. All I need is the title and author anyway, I can look for descriptions myself. Many thanks my friend. I shall start searching for these immediately. I'm sure others will appreciate this list as well. :) Vortex 22:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I also suspect that a lot of these are out of print. And note that I'm not saying how *useful* any individual one is. :-) Anyway, glad I could add cheer to your day. Elf | Talk 22:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar, yeah that's right, a barnstar!

		The Oddball Barnstar
		I, User:Pedant hereby award you the Oddball barnstar for your creation of the Category Category:Physical activity and dexterity toys on June 14 2005

The Oddball Barnstar is for editors who create ... something that one wouldn't expect to find in more traditional encyclopedias. Please take a moment to see how 'your' category has grown in just over a year. User:Pedant 21:18, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I was working on Juggling, and related hard-to-categorise subjects, and your category helped to group some dissimilar things that seemed to need to go together. I'll be likely to add some more things to that category too. Thanks again, and remember even if you don't come around much, your contributions will continue to be both welcome and valued. User:Pedant 23:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your work on Puppy

Thank you so much for getting the article off to a good start! I honestly didn't know where to begin. The_Irrelevant_One 11:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Technical communicator vocation?

I noticed your addition to Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Technical Communicators and I'm curious what your vocation is and/or how you would define "technical communicator." I would love to have a full-time job editing sites like Wikipedia; do you know of any avenues that would make this a possibility for me? I'm watching this page, so you can reply here. --J. J. 23:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Technical communicator: Someone who conveys information about technology to its consumers. That's pretty broad, intentionally. "Technical writer" would be the traditional name, but there's so much more involved than writing. I suppose that if I knew of a full-time job editing pages like Wikipedia, I'd be doing it myself. :-) Some companies use wikis as an internal tool for various things and so sometimes I get to muck around on a wiki site, but only as it relates directly to the work I'm supposed to be doing, which often involves a variety of media and an awful lot of figuring out what questions to ask, ferreting out answers, determining which info is going to be of use, and choosing how best to convey it to be most helpful to the intended audience.

Having a technical background is very helpful; technical tech writers always seem to be in great demand, at least in and around Silicon Valley. I slowly morphed from being a software developer to being a tech communicator because I could write and I liked solving the puzzles the one needs to solve as a tech communicator. So I was always writing or rewriting stuff in my role as computer scientist, so when someone would ask me for writing samples, I had stuff I could show and talk about. I learned most about effective tech communication, however, when I started working with other writers and editors, taking a few university extension classes on the subject, attending STC conferences and workshops, and reading books (and STC member proceedings & magazines) on how to do a better job. In theory, you can network at STC meetings & events, too, to meet people & maybe find leads on jobs or directions to take or get involved in STC so that other people get to know you & your work. I've never done that.

Hope this helps. Elf | Talk 01:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Definitely helps to know about the STC. I'll likely return in a few weeks and let you know what's panned out for me! --J. J. 14:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Wow! Thank you very much for the barnstar. It is indeed hard at times, I get flamed and yelled at, but it is good to know that my work is appriciated! Trysha <sup>(talk)</sup> 22:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:ChowBlueTongueUkapala.jpg

--Sherool (talk) 11:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:BrittanySpanielMrwill.jpg

--Sherool (talk) 11:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing on "The Prestige" (film)

Elf, you noted that the plot summary of The Prestige needs more work. The reason it needs more work is that we had a clear, coherent, accurate, and grammatical plot summary a few days ago, but Wiki-newbie undid it and restored his version of the section, which the one of a few days ago had replaced. The section has a contentious history on the article's talk page. Some of us had explained to Wiki-newbie what we saw as flaws in his rewrite, and he put it back (or something close to it) anyway.

I'm new to Wikipedia, and I don't know all the procedures and etiquette, but it seems to me there's something wrong with ignoring tactful feedback from multiple contributors and insisting on one's own version when good reasons have been given for not using it. Can you help? Cognita 04:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long overdue recognition and thanks

		The Fauna Barnstar
		I can imagine few if any people who are more deserving of this recognition than you. Your tireless efforts to date to improve and maintain the quality of the dogs articles has been invaluable to wikipedia, and I hope that you will accept this small token of our appreciation and recognition. I regret to say that it is not in my power to grant what I believe to be a citizen of the United States an official title, but I believe few other people are more deserving of receiving wikipedia's OBF (which is as close as I can approximate OBE). Thank you again for all your extraordinary work. Badbilltucker 15:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

And, by the way, this is not an effort to prevent you from leaving, if you so desire. I for one would be very sorry to see you leave completely, but can understand how you might view it as the best of a group of bad options. Certainly, no one wants to see your own life hurt because of your efforts here. However, whether you do come back or not, I have no doubt that this little recognition is more than adequately earned. Badbilltucker 16:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DMCA Takedown

I was wondering whether you'd like to send a DMCA takedown notice about Caninecrib. They didn't respond to your last notice. I've added the address (legal@crystaltech.com) of the host to the entry. There's a DMCA template at Wikipedia:Standard_GFDL_violation_letter#PD_DMCA_takedown_notices. Superm401 - Talk 00:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:PoisonOak wb biggerLeaves.jpg

Can you replace this with a higher resolution version? It's an attractive picture, and I would like to continue using it in the article, because it looks like the Bay Area poison oak I am so familiar with, but the resolution is much too low. Let me know on my talk page, or better yet, just upload something. Thanks. KP Botany 19:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I see you're on Wikibreak. When you get around to is fine. KP Botany 19:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It's archived onto CD; I'll have to search it out. Suggestion on what you'd like to see in the way of resolution? Elf | Talk 20:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Westie.JPG at West Highland White Terrier.

Hi. As a significant contributor to the page in question, you are invited to this page to give your opinion on the inclusion or exclusion of Image:Westie.JPG in the article West Highland White Terrier. The specific criteria being examined appear to be:

• its suitability on quality grounds; and
• whether it is deemed of sufficient quality, is it more deserving of being shown than other images currently contained within the article, bearing in mind that another issue might be the limitation on including too many images in the article.

Your comments are eagerly awaited. Refsworldlee<sup>(chew-fat)</sup> 19:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] dogs?

I put them there because they are so similar to Germany and they even use German for official language. Maybe i should rename it to "Germanic" ? -- Hrödberäht 05:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help with website sourcing

Headphonos has been removing sourcing notices from the bull dog type breeds. Such as Bully Kutta, Gull dong and Gull Terr. Headphonos suggests that the website molosserdogs is a reliable one, I was under the impression that it was not a reliable source. Can you give me your opinion on this please? Ensyc 11:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons:Image:P3030054 Hail crwb.jpg

Image restored...please add information. Bastiq▼e <sup>demandez</sup> 03:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Elf | Talk 05:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons:Image:Labrador Retriever (Chocolate Puppy).jpg

If you don't visit your commons talk page you might wanna forward your talk page to your en talk page. Anyway, could you please verify you took that picture. If you did, just replace {{GFDL}} with {{GFDL-user-en}} on the image page. Thanks, Yonatan (contribs/talk) 03:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Larger version of LabradorWeaving.jpg?

Hello! I was wondering if you have a larger version of LabradorWeaving.jpg; I would like to nominate it for Quality Image on the Commons, but the guidelines require that images be roughly 1600x1200 or larger. grendel|khan 12:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)