Talk:Bee Gees
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] (If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.) |
||
 |
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to musicians and musical groups on Wikipedia. | ||
[edit] Gibb brothers' childhood in Brisbane, Australia
The article says the Gibbs lived in Redcliffe. This doesn't seem right to me. I thought they lived in a rather dreary suburb called Cribb Island (now part of the Brisbane Airport). Can anyone enlighten ? 136.153.2.2 09:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Re: Question above - Yes they did live in Redcliffe, at 394 Oxley Drive to be exact. I'm not sure where this Cribb Island bit came from. Perhaps it's true, but the house in Redcliffe appears to have been their first place of residence upon emmigrating to Australia. This is only an hour's drive from where I live on the Gold Coast in South East Queensland, Australia (I must take a drive up there sometime and see if I can feel their presence, so to speak). They also lived in Maroubra in Sydney later on, among other places. See http://www.beegees-world.com/bio_tour.html User:Lmb71 12:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to the fan page - seems they moved around a fair bit, so maybe they did live at Cribb Island too. Clearly the family was struggling and moving from one rental property to another. The fan page pictures are not original 1960s pictures, despite being in black and white. The picture of the Redcliffe racetrack has a sign that indicates that they have "Pokies" (a form of gambling machine I think the Americans call "slot machines" or "poker machines") - these were illegal in Queensland until the late 1980s. The same old Holden car in that photo is also in the other B&W pics. 136.153.2.2 07:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
- I believe they lived in Cribb Island for a time, but I have no source to prove it. This is very unencyclopedic however I had a friend, who I've lost contact with, who went to school and was in the same class as Robin and Maurice. My friend lived in the suburb of Hendra as a child, which is quite close to where Cribb Island used to be. For them to all be at the same school suggests that they lived in the same general area. Redcliffe, on the other hand, is not part of Brisbane and lies to the north - not far away, but children living in Redcliffe would have been unlikely to travel so far to school. I think they moved around and lived in both places (and others too probably) at different times. On the subject of Cribb Island - when it was being razed for the development of Brisbane airport there was some mention in the media about the Gibbs having lived there. Rossrs 10:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, my info is similarly unencyclopedic - I knew someone who lived in the suburb who told me once that the Gibbs lived in the street behind where she lived. I also remember the newspaper articles referring to the destruction of the suburb and its connection to the band. I guess someone will need to check the Courier Mail for around 1980. 136.153.2.2 11:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
no mention of "To Love Somebody" from 1967? PMelvilleAustin 10:50 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)
They had plenty of commercial success in the 1990s. I'm not sure of the purpose, and therefore the validity, when documenting someone in an Encyclopedia, of comments about being popular now or "losing" etc. How is it relevant to facts?...DW
- I'm not sure what you mean. Not speaking with regards to the Bee Gees specifically, of course the level of a band's popularity is relevant to the facts -- the question is whether it is done in a NPOV fashion. I believe I wrote this article originally, and if I was unduly harsh, please correct as necessary. Tokerboy
What I'm saying, is that in this field, success for a year or two is the norm. It is extremely rare for an artist to last for years, let alone decades. Saying about the Bee Gees that: "A few albums and multiple compilations followed in the 1990s, but the Bee Gees had lost any critical viability and any chances of further commercial success" is improper criticsm in an encyclopedia to begin with. Articles should deal with the facts and time frame of their career in an NPOV manner. References to length of success should be in the context of an achievement not a negative comment if they only achieve the norm. On a simpler level, we don't say that a man died after only living for 72 years because that is the norm -- what is expected. However, if he died at 37 or lived to be 108, then we comment in their encyclopedia article. ...DW
[edit] Bill Gates?
"They gained the attention of a radio DJ called Bill Gates and gradually made a name for themselves for their harmony singing and Barry's songwriting" - Is this a joke, or was there truely a radio DJ nammed Bill Gates. Well, I heard from the BBC once that they were named after their manager's initials, _Bill Gates_... so the part the DJ part must be true. It seems that someone has currently vandalized the name to show _George W. Bush_. Now that I cannot believe.
Bee Gees stands for Brothers Gibb - so the _Bill Gates_ thing (and the _George W. Bush_ thing) is a joke.
This is not a joke. Bill Gates, (not the Microsoft one) 'discovered' the band. The name Bee Gees comes from an almalgamation of the initials in Brothers Gibb, Bill Gates, Bill Goode (an Australian DJ, who supported them), Barbara Gibb (Their mother) and Barry Gibb. Originally they were called the BG's. Mark Ronan
- Mark: that's quite perfect! http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discographie_des_Bee_Gees 18:16, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.beegees-world.com (I'm one of the four webmasters, indeed) :-) S.K. "Juke Box Cannon Ball". :-) Stephan KŒNIG 18:17, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Requested move
- As the band's proper name is simply "Bee Gees", there is no need for the "The" in the title. Snow1215 18:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Support move - certainly seems to be the case from their album covers. sjorford →•← 19:59, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Support move to make inline linking easier. Jonathunder 04:00, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)
- Support move. Their first two albums used "The Bee Gees", but since then it seems to have been "Bee Gees" all the way. Here are more album covers. --GauteHK 12:29, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
The article makes an error early on by saying they are from Douglas, Isle of Man, England. The Isle of Man is not England and not even part of the UK. If you don't believe me, look it up in Wikipedia. So I hope you don't mind if I delete the "England".
[edit] Music from "Saturday Night Fever" and the Academy Awards
In 1978, while the music from "Saturday Night Fever" was dominating the media airways in the USA, the Academy Awards for Motion Picture Arts and Science nominated for best original song from a movie: a song from "The Slipper and the Rose"; a song from "Pete's Dragon"; a song from "The Rescuers"; "Nobody Does it Better", (from "The Spy Who Loved Me"); and the winning song, the title track to "You Light Up My Life". So many people were upset, (and said and wrote so), that none of the original songs from "SNF" were nominated in the best song catagory, (and the first three songs named were), that the following year, 1979, a section of the show was dedicated to popular songs from the movies that were not nominated for an Academy Award. Sammy Davis Jr. and another person, sung some of the ignored songs. It was a Very long segement of the show from a group of people who did show a preference to music that came from, (or sounded like it came from), "Disney" type movies in the past. Elvis Presley certainly knew what it meant to have a popular song from a motion picture not nominated for an Academy Award.204.80.61.10 14:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk
[edit] David English wrote (for Bee Gees World)
Maurice Gibb was not only one of my closest friends, over 30 years he became like a brother to me. I last saw him at the wedding of Barry Gibb's two sons on Miami Beach before Christmas. He was in great spirits, larking around, having fun and enjoying life. He was slim and tanned and looked great which makes the details of his death even harder to take in. I've been in constant touch with his family since he was taken into hospital and I've been shocked to learn just how ill Maurice was. The family are drained at the finality and suddenness of it all. Barry and Robin's mother, Barbara, is with them. The hospital is down the road from their homes and is where their children were born. Now they're at Barry's house trying to come to terms with it all. Barry was asleep when I called yesterday. His wife Linda said he was devastated. He can't believe it has happened. I will always remember Maurice, or Mo as I called him, for his sense of humour and his ability to mimic other people's voices. He was zany, like Ringo was with the Beatles, witty and a bit of a court jester. One of my favourite memories is driving over Sunny Isles Bridge in Miami in 1975 with the Bee Gees after spending a day in the recording studio. They heard the rhythm of the wheels on the road, looked at each other and realised it was a great groove. We drove back to the studio and came up with Jive Talking, just like that. When they were in the studio, they were like three pieces of a jigsaw because they fitted together so well. You would have Barry and Robin coming up with the words and Maurice with his keyboard or guitar developing a melody as the man in the middle. After Saturday Night Fever came out, I remember walking around Times Square in New York with Maurice. We saw a neon board which showed five of their singles in the Top 10. He smiled and said: "Not bad, eh?" Talk about understatement. One of the funniest times we had was in the 70s at the Intercontinental Hotel in Paris. I was looking over the balcony of our room and for some reason decided to circle along a ledge. One by one, Barry, Maurice and Robin followed. When we came to the next suite, we looked in and saw a couple making love. The woman looked up and, with an expression of total disbelief, saw a madman followed by three Bee Gees inch past, 100ft above Paris. We saw her the next day on the plane back to London. Maurice told her how nice it was to see her with her clothes on. I last spoke to him on the phone two weeks ago. He was fine and talking about how he had just been paintballing. The fact that he was so active makes his death all the harder to come to terms with. My thoughts are with his family. His wife, Yvonne, is devastated. It must also be very hard on his children, Samantha and Adam, who were working on an album with him just before he died. The Bee Gees drew their strength from being a family. I'm sure they will use that strength to get them through the days ahead. But things will never be the same again." Provided by Stephan KOENIG BGW Webmaster (22:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC))
[edit] Andy Gibb
Thanks for clearing up that "Andy Gibb" concern. Yes, it is true, he was NOT a Bee Gee. Hucz 06:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
I am concerned that this article is becoming biased, due to sentences such as the following: "They sang tight three-part harmonies that were natural and infectious, and their sound was instantly recognizable." I strongly feel that the article should be fixed to adhere to NPOV. --Daniel 01:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
- Looks like it's already been cleaned up a lot, so hopefully if enough people pitch in, fixing the rest of it should be a blue milk run. --Bill (who is cool!) 02:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Opening line description (nationality)
Perhaps we could garner some form of consensus on how the Bee Gees nationality/origin should be described in the opening line. I personally favour "Anglo-Australian" but there has been others including the current "British born, Australian singing trio". Comments? Shadow007 23:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
- They were born on the Isle of Man, which is technically not part of the UK but a crown dependency. So, to be accurate, I propose "Manx-born Anglo-Australian singing trio". Brisvegas 03:05, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
-
- A little clumsy but it'll do. It would be nice to have a few more than 2 people commenting on the issue though. Shadow007 10:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd stick with Manx-born Anglo-Australian becuase although it is a bit awkward, it is correct.To just call them "Australian" is misleading, I think. Tvoz 00:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- I changed the lead because I think using 4 words to describe nationality is unneccessary. According to WP:MOSBIO; Nationality: In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. The Manx and Australian connections are no where near as well known as the English one, and nothing has been removed as all is mentioned in the biography anyway. User:SteveLamacq43 22:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- Yeah, User:SteveLamacq43 - but you see we've been discussing this here and in the page edits and you think the Manx and Australian are less important, but another editor last week said that it was clear that the Australian identification is more important, and I'm sure if we wait long enough someone from the Isle of Man will weigh in on the Manx id. So we pretty much agreed here - at least the only editors who bothered to speak to the issue when asked - that although it is a little awkward, the description "Manx-born, Anglo-Australian" at least is accurate and should satisfy all sides of this idiotic dispute. I myself would be happy to drop the "Manx-born" because it is included elsewhere on the page and actually I don't think anyone off the island thinks of the Manx connection when they think of the Bee Gees. But they certainly received fame in Australia and in my personal experience were generally thought of as being Australian - but much (not all) of their success absolutely came after they went back to England - so it's a tossup. By the way, do you know where they are "citizens" or "nationals" ? If not, don't assume. Citing that WP guideline isn't particularly helpful in this case anyway. So I am reinstating the agreed-upon wording and will happily remove "Manx-born" if there are no objections. (And since this very topic has been discussed here, I would think that the proper way to have proceeded would have been to add your point of view to this talk page rather than just going in an making a change as if it were the first time it was brought up. But that's just how I would have done it, fwiw.)Tvoz 01:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- Whilst I'm not sure you couldn't have been slightly more polite in your reply, you tell me not to assume. I assumed nothing; the fact that none of them spent more than 4 years on the Isle of Man mean that's not really worthy of being included in a brief description of their nationality, spending only 12 years in Australia and with no indication or mention that they actually obtained citizenship (even if they did, it would probably have been withdrawn due to recent/ish reforms) renders that similarly uncontestable. With the facts that they were always introduced as English, and have pretty much lived there since the 60s, I assumed common sense would prevail. I would also appreciate it in future if you aren't so quick to shoot down ideas. SteveLamacq43 21:42, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- The Isle of Man is not mentioned in a description of their nationality, actually, it's mentioned as their place of birth in their initial description. As I said, I also think it is unnecessary in the intro sentence and will happily remove it, but when it was removed in the past - look back at history - it was promptly reinstated, presumably by a fan of the Isle. As for Australia, I believe you when you suggest that you never heard them being identified as Australian, but all I can tell you is I did, many times, in the US - that is how they were identified, as an Australian group. And Andy Gibb was touted as an Australian singer. As I mentioned, another editor last week felt that they should be identified only as Australian, not even Anglo-Australian, let alone English. So do you see the problem? I am not shooting down ideas - I posted a long explanation for my reinstatement and half-agreed with you, if you read it. WHat I said is that since this has been a point of contention - as evidenced by the numerous edits about this as well as the lengthy discussions on this talk page - I think the proper thing to do is to talk about it some more (even though I do think the point is so trivial as to be a major waste of time), rather than just going in and changing the text. If there was a shot at all it was not at your idea, but at your method. And I'm sorry if I seemed impolite - this may be a difference in perception because of our different backgrounds - in America I think my reply would be viewed as restrained and polite, but apparently to your ears/eyes it was not. That wasn't my intention. Tvoz 23:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- See? Even as I was writing the above, the earlier editor (Drmagic) came in and changed it back to Australian, which I am going to revert in a moment - I would guess he hadn't seen this discussion. So this is why I say we have a situation, and Anglo-Australian may be the only way to satisfy both. Tvoz 23:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- I would be inclined to ignor Drmagic, as is clear from his edit history he has decided to awkwardly edit a couple of pages I recently have, following a disagreement on another page. Anyway, it's not encyclopaedic for it to be written in a way to appease everybody, so I would suggest trying to find a source, probably an interview, in which the brothers describe themselves as one nationality; English, Manx, Australian or whatever, and have that as the definitive answer. Saying that, I have no idea how easy or difficult it will be to find one; I guess there's only one way to find out though. SteveLamacq43 13:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- I don't disagree with your point, except that I'm not exactly trying to appease here (I guess it sounded that way though) - I actually think both points of view have merit which is why I'd go with the Anglo-Australian type of construction (and maybe drop the Manx in the first sentence). As I said, if you had asked me before this discussion started where the Bee Gees were from, I would have said Australia, based on how I recall them being promoted in the 60s, and I also totally see the logic of considering them English so the dual wording does make sense to me. I've looked a bit and haven't come up with anything on the web to answer that question yet - maybe you'll have more luck.
-
- By the way, Olivia Newton-John may be relevant here: she is considered Australian as well, and her WIki article calls her "English-born Australian" or words to that effect. Her bio says she was born in England, moved to Australia at age 5 and moved back to England at 16 where she began recording - a pretty similar story to the BeeGees, and she's listed as Australian which might be how she self-identifies, I don't know. But on a quick read it appears she only lived there for about 10 years, like them.
-
- As for whether this editing is personal, I have no idea and don't want to get into it. I do know that I am trying to reach consensus among different points of view, on this exceedingly minor point - and as I have said, there was some fussing about it a couple of months ago and it settled down with the awkward wording, because it is accurate. So I hope we can drop this quickly and move on to something more substantive. Tvoz 16:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
-
-
- It would be good to have a consistent approach but unfortunately different editors look at different articles and come up with different compromises. There was a substantial debate over Nicole Kidman with the result that she does not seem to have a nationality, although someone decided that "Kidman holds dual citizenship as both an Australian and an American" covered everything. (I disagree, but....). Meanwhile Mel Gibson, who has a similar history to Kidman (born U.S., raised Australia, career started Australia, moved to U.S., now resides in U.S.) is described as "American-Australian". Olivia Newton-John is similar to the Bee Gees, except for a few differences - the Bee Gees left Australia and never really looked back. None of them has resided in Australia since the late 1960s - even their parents followed them to the U.S. Newton-John's father was Australian, and since leaving Australia, Newton-John has maintained very close ties : her family is in Australia, she owns a substantial business enterprise in NSW and has also maintained an Australian residence since the 1970s. Plus she always refers to herself as Australian. So yes, a good example on the one hand, but not so good on the other. With these 4 articles, a similar type of history has been depicted in 4 different ways, and each way is as incorrect as it is correct.
-
-
-
- I think it might be useful to find someone among our editors, who has some kind of experience in geneology and see what would be the "correct" way of describing them. Rossrs 05:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
-
-
- PS: Be careful what you wish for - in an interview they might well identify themselves as American, since some or all lived in Florida! Tvoz 17:02, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
-
- Actually - beyond my joke about calling themselves American - we need to keep in mind that a Wikipedia article isn't supposed to be presenting the point of view of its subject, it's supposed to objectively report the facts. So it doesn't matter if they fell in love with Miami and think of themselves as Floridians, or if they hated Australia, or loved it and want to be thought of as Australian or not. The best we can do is look for multiple sources and try to present the facts as even-handedly as possible, but keeping in mind that sometimes both points of view in a dispute need to be accommodated when there's no definitive answer. (And I'll bet you that whatever we agree on, in a while some other person will come along and not read these lengthy debates and just change it. That's life on Wikipedia, and not worth getting riled up about.) Tvoz 17:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
-
-
- I'm going to try English-Australian and see if that sticks, pending someone's coming ujp with some actual reference rather than personal preference. Tvoz 20:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
-
Folks, we've been trying to find some wording to fit in the first sentence that will correctly identify the BeeGees' origins, but whatever is posted is changed shortly thereafter by someone else - obviously there is a difference of opinion here about how to describe this group and we aren't getting anywhere. So rather than reverting again I'm proposing the wording that I just posted which is totally accurate and I hope will satisfy all concerns so we can get on to more substantive issues - the article can use more work on things that actually matter. I've removed the entire phrase from the first sentence and made a slightly longer second sentence that briefly lays out their origins - born on the Isle of Man, lived in England for several years, moved to Australia where they began their music careers, returned to England from where their worldwide success was spawned. This is stated briefly in the first paragraph, and the details follow, as they should, in the main part of the article. Please note that WP:MOSBIO (which is a guideline, not a strict rule anyway) allows for nationality to be in the first PARAGRAPH, not necessarily the first sentence, so I think this remains consistent to Wikipedia biography style, but explains their particular backgrounds accurately. I hope editors here will agree. Tvoz 05:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
- Excellent. Some situations can't be put into a neat little box, and this obviously is one of them. What you have written is more accurate and more descriptive than any tag that could be applied regarding nationality, in my view. Well done. Rossrs 06:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Changing Quotations
Twice in the last few weeks some perhaps well-meaning editors changed the quotation I posted from the Bee Gees' Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Citation, for which I included a reference. This is an actual quote, not a matter of opinion as to whether someone else should have been included or someone left off. It's not subject to editing. I added a hidden note on the page for anyone who doesn't read here, and would like to reiterate that direct quotes are not to be changed in any way - unless they are misquoting. The quote is: "Only Elvis Presley, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, Garth Brooks and Paul McCartney have outsold the Bee Gees. " yes, Garth Brooks, not ABBA, these folks. Please leave it alone. Thanks. Tvoz 20:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bee Gees More Than A woman
Did the Bee Gees record this song secretly without Wikipedias permission, or has it been omitted deliberately?124.177.248.128 04:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
- How about finding the stats (which I don't have handy or I would) and posting them instead of making a snarky comment? Someone made a mistake. Let's shoot them. Tvoz 04:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
- I doubt that "More Than a Woman" was even released as a single in the UK or the US. It certainly didn't chart in either place and at that point in music history for a Bee Gees single to not chart, is impossible to comprehend. So why does the song need a mention? The lists are for singles released only. They have recorded numerous songs, so why is this one in needed of recognition. On a side note, it was released in Australia as a single where it was a minor hit. But yes, one of the beautiful things about Wikipedia is that anyone can edit anything, and that should reduce the number of unhelpful comments on talk pages. Rossrs 07:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Help with a link?
I added Billy Corgan and Robert Smith to the "songwriting success" cover section, but Robert Smith's link goes to a disambiguation page. It should actually go here [1] but I'm not sure how to link there directly without changing the name in the text. If someone can fix this it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Squidge37 17:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- I disambiguated the wikilink to Robert Smith (musician)in section /* Songwriting success */
- The correct syntax to do this is [[Robert Smith|Robert Smith (musician)]]
- You may enjoy the Wikilink Syntax Help page at Wikimedia.
- Jerry lavoie 19:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Origin of the name
It seems that the article contradicts itself in saying that "The group's name is derived from the initials "B.G.", primarily standing for Brothers Gibb." and then later "Gates renamed them after his and Goode's initials – thus the name was not simply a reference to the brothers Gibb." So I guess it should be edited in one of the places.
Musically ut 16:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Should be "The Bee Gees"
The title of the wiki article should be "The Bee Gees" because the proper name of "Bee Gees" is "The Bee Gees". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.146.37.0 (talk) 21:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Song Tears - 'Unknown' song accreditable to the Bee Gees?
I have barely found a mention about the Bee Gees' song Tears. Did they actually write it/perform it? Searching for its lyrics in any mainstream search engine returns few results. You can see a sample of its lyrics in this link, for example.
This is all I know about the song. If you want to help, post your suggestions, and any known information you may have (album, date of release, chart position, etc.). --Logariasmo 03:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
- Fair enough, I didn't search in here, where I would have found it in the album One.--Logariasmo 03:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] falsetto
I think the falsetto started in 1969 from the album Odessa on a song called "Melody Fair". Ace1Nano 21:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
