Talk:Bertrand Russell

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Contents 1 Ontological Argument 2 Quotation sections 3 Atheist? 4 Comments section and Summation of Own Life 5 m The Principles of Mathematics 6 Eugenics and race

[edit] Ontological Argument

The article seems to suggest that he fully "accepted" it, which I don't think was true. If this wasn't the intent of the section, then it should probably be better explained. --Jammoe 22:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotation sections

It is my recommendation that the quotations in the sections "Russell summing up his life", "Comments about Russell", and "Quotations" be either removed and transferred to WikiQuote, or incorporated into the overall narrative about Russell's life and views. Such selective quoting is not only a violation of WP:NPOV, but is also fundamentally unencyclopedic. -Silence 02:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree- i pretty much unwittingly repeated what you said below. unless i hear some sort of good justification in the near future, i am going to delete them. the quotes already exist on wikiquote. Acornwithwings 20:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atheist?

Russell summed himself up, as quoted, as an agnostic. He was a fundamentally anti-religious agnostic, except for the period of "A Free Man's Worship"; but Category:Atheist mathematicians, Category:Atheist philosophers ,Category:Atheist thinkers and activists, and Category:British atheists are excessive and misleading. Septentrionalis 17:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

An Agnostic, in the modern sense of the word, is someone who does at least think one of those "gods" might be real and he/she can't know. Russell clearly states that he does not think any of those to be existent as there is no shred of evidence. But he said that he does not think there in some omnipotent/omniscient being. He said that there might be super-human intelligence somewhere but you will find any atheist admitting to that as well, because atheists never claim to possess ultimate knowledge. The question is, if any god existed, would it have mattered for Russell? And I think the answer to that question is no. --SoWhy ^Talk 09:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Russell, as I understand him, is only an agnostic in the classical sense: he has a-gnosis ("lack of knowledge") regarding deities. He has described himself as an agnostic in philosophical theory (because he doesn't "know" that gods don't exist, lacking definitive proof that they can't exist), but an atheist for all practical purposes (because he does not believe in any deities, and, indeed, explicitly rejects claims that deities exist). By those standards, almost all atheists are agnostics too, because they don't claim to "know" with certainty that deities don't exist; they merely find it implausible that they do. For further information, see Russell's Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic? -Silence 17:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing misleading about the atheist categories. As it has been noted, Russell (for practical and reference purposes) declared nothing wrong about being called an atheist. In fact, he fits the criteria for "Weak atheism", still nothing misleading. Furthermore, category:Atheist mathematicians states atheists or agnostics are being refered to. Canadianism 05:47, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I see this has been fixed. Calling an agnostic an atheist is misleading. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments section and Summation of Own Life

I have deleted these sections for the reasons myself and others have listed above: the article is very long, the Comments section is basically a laudatory quotes section and belongs (and already exists) in Wikiquote, and the summation of his life violates NPOV. I did this as these issues were brought up many times and there hasn't been much in the way of contestation. Additionally, the article would be more neutral, concise and informative if there were fewer quotes of Russell in the article, but I don't feel qualified to edit these as i have not read much Russell and don't know much about the context of these quotes. It does Russell no service to have a wikipedia article about him that violates NPOV. Acornwithwings 01:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] m The Principles of Mathematics

this book is linked to four times along the page, and doesn't have an article. is it needed? and more generally, why not merge "writings online" into "selected bibliography"? trespassers william 20:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eugenics and race

The quotations in the section Eugenics and race of the article are simply irreconcilable among themselves, in spite of the admirable efforts displayed by the editor.

Let's face the facts: Bertrand Russel was a racist, to the point of advocating birth control targeted only at "coloured races" ("Lecture by the Hon. Bertrand Russell", Birth Control News, vol. 1, no. 8, December 1922, p.2), and to describe the extermination of “negroes” only, all considered (and “apart from questions of humanity” [sic!]), as “undesirable” ([sic!], Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals, 1929).

In the course of time, he partly "softened" his views, partly changed their expression, when, especially after the II World War (Bertrand Russell, New Hopes for a Changing World, London: Allen & Unwin, 1951, p. 108), it would not have been “politically” correct” to display such outspoken racist and “eugenetic” views.

Also, probably Bertrand Russel realized that his former unrestrained racist and “eugenetic” views were not much in character with his post-war image of liberal, non-conformist, political agitator.
Miguel de Servet 17:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)