Talk:Boxer (dog)

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page) I think this article should be ranked a A class article. The Beagle article is also a B-class for example but falls short of the Boxer article, which is properly referenced and has lot of historical breed information. If no one objects to that I will be changing the class to A soon. Regards Loudenvier 15:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

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B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. Comments: edit – history – watch – refresh I think this article should be ranked a A class article. The Beagle article is also a B-class for example but falls short of the Boxer article, which is properly referenced and has lot of historical breed information. If no one objects to that I will be changing the class to A soon. Regards Loudenvier 15:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Archived Discussions 2 Piccolo von Angertor lineage 3 Gallery and guidelines 4 Boxer as fight dogs 5 Neutrality 6 height, weight and deafness 7 Gallery is becoming excessive 8 Tempermant

[edit] Archived Discussions

• Talk:Boxer (dog)/Archive/060923

[edit] Piccolo von Angertor lineage

I´ve discovered on http://www.americanboxerclub.org/boxer_history.html the lineage of the branch that resulted in Piccolo von Argentor. I´ll have to update the graph to reflect this, but I haven´t the time to do this yet. Did you think it´s best for the article to update the text only after updating the graph? Or some transient inconsistency is bearable? To summarize his lineage is:

• Alt's Flora II (not on graph) is sister to Alt´s Schecken .
• Alt´s Flora II mated with her father Lechner´s Box to produce Maier´s Lord (the first notable boxer sire)
• Maier´s Boxer was mated with Maier´s Flora of unknown parentage which produced Piccolo von Angertor

Regards Loudenvier 20:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery and guidelines

We could incorporate a gallery of sorts with boxer pictures at the end of the article. I think that as a guideline the picture to be elligible for the gallery will have to come from Wikipedia Commons. This way it will not be only a gallery for vanity, but a gallery with images contributed to the public domain on the Wikipedia commons server which makes it possible to be used easyly in any other wikipedia in any other language. Of course, this gallery would have a limit imposed by common sense, but since I can't make sense of its preferable size right now I will not suggest any. Regards Loudenvier 14:21, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I have started the gallery with a few nice pictures, including the nice pet that didn't make into the article itself. Please, do not add further pictures to the article unless they bring some new information along (a good picture of a white boxer is desperately needed...). Also add only images to the gallery that are from wikimedia commons, this will help reducing the amount of duplicate files among wikipedia projects. Try to include only high quality images on the gallery. Remember: When you upload an image it will go to the public domain and anything could be done with it after that. If you don't feel confortable with that, then do not upload an image. This gallery will hopefully help protected the undesired growth of pictures inside the article, rendering it unreadable. Regards. Loudenvier 03:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boxer as fight dogs

I think its clear that the boxer, given his physical characteristics, was used as a fight dog. Many sources state that, but they aren't reliable enough for me to use them to back up the fighting dog "dark" side of the history of the breed. I think its politically incorrect to try to hide this fact. In light of present day Boxer temperament its unnecessary and perhaps derogatory trying to deny any aspect of the breed history. I think the fact here is that we need to make clear that while Boxers were used as fight dogs in the past, they weren't bred for fighting (in contrast with Staffordshire Bull Terrier), so they are not fighting dogs, only physically capable dogs that were used on dog fights. Some links to read: [1] [2] [3]. But let me make something clear: I am totally against dog fights. If I know of someone who practices it, I would take the Sh#t out of him and take him to the police. Regards Loudenvier 14:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

This article needs some neutrality cleanup. Read through the sections on demeanor and tell me that's unbiased. Only positive facts are mentioned about the dog's demeanor and uses.

If by "demeanor" you mean the section entitled "Temperament", I suggest you read past the opening paragraph. There is quite a bit of information on the potential negative aspects of Boxer temperament: a strong personality; a challenge for a first-time dog owner; "headstrong"; a very long puppyhood and adolescence; high energy; needs socialization to tolerate other dogs well; a sometimes over-protective, territorial and dominating attitude; can be dominant with larger dogs of the same sex; poorly bred or trained dog is capable of seriously injuring or killing other animals.

Newcastle 16:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

And most important: I guess he never owned a Boxer... :-) Just kidding. This article really isn't POV, it doesn't even takes a lot of good sense to realize that. It's also fully referenced, citing lots of sources. I would even say that this article is a little detrimental to the breed when it comes to the health problems that seems to be a litle exacerbated, and also tell of some general dog problems as if they are exclusive or more common on this breed. Regards. 14:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] height, weight and deafness

I've recently reverted an edit that changed those information because they were wrong. Alleged increased deafness rate in whites are still controversial, not unbiased studies surfaced so far that claiming whites to be MUCH MORE PRONE is going too far. 35 kg is far too much for weight, 32 kg is the accepted maximum (70 pounds =~ 32 kg). Loudenvier 16:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery is becoming excessive

The gallery is obviously becoming full of unencyclopedic images which probably make loading the page an absolute nightmare for people without highspeed internet. I propose removing these images which I feel do not help to illustrate boxers in any way not addressed by the text and/or other images and are therefore unnecessary and unencyclopedic.

			Possibly

I'm sure this will be met with resistance, but galleries shouldn't be a free-for-all of whoever wants to see their dog online. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

There's a compromise here. The gallery exists for some time and it didn't expanded too far. Even without high-speed its impact is very low because its at the end of the article, and in a separate table (just see the mark-up generated). This means it will be rendered after the actual article, which in turn will not impact low speed connections. I agree it's not straight-forward encyclopedic, but it helps to illustrate the boxers in day-to-day life without making the article itself unreadable. And there's also a good side-effect to that: the images submitted are automatically into the public-domain, and this is a great by-product because now we have a few good boxer pictures that we could use anywhere without fear of copyright violation. Also, the pictures submitted to the commons can be shared without duplication across wikipedia projects... We could let the gallery grow and in a periodic basis we could clean it, keeping the best photos and those which shows unique moments: for example, there isn't a single picture recent-born puppets or really old boxers, nor competition photos, etc. Loudenvier 17:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if we need/want photos of very young Boxers I just uploaded two pictures of four-day-old fawn puppies nursing and sleeping to the commons if anyone feels like putting them up here. Additionally, I've uploaded on of the few good photos of Boxers standing that show the whole dog and has decent lighting here, and a "pack" of Boxers here (including a white, fawns and a brindle). I may also upload this photo of a fawn puppy and/or this white six-month-old. I'm i the process of looking through the 1,373 phots that match the Flickr search for CC licensed that match the keyword "boxer". --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 23:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Amazing photos! I will update the article with the ones that add new info to the article. Loudenvier 15:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tempermant

Do we really need to plagiarize to describe their temper?

The character of the Boxer is of the greatest importance and demands the most careful attention. He is renowned for his great love and faithfulness to his master and household, his alertness, and fearless courage as a defender and protector. The Boxer is docile but distrustful of strangers. He is bright and friendly in play but brave and determined when roused. His intelligence and willing tractability, his modesty, and cleanliness make him a highly desirable family dog and cheerful companion. He is the soul of honesty and loyalty. He is never false or treacherous even in his old age.[12]

Sure, it is referenced, but I am sure their is a better way to write it without plagiarizing

Hereis the original work. --K8TEK 18:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to speed delete this article because of this alleged copy-vio? Give me a break. Tke your time to review the article history and all effort put on it and tell me that its a copy-vio article, ok? By the way, you have to use proper tags for copy-vio. If you think any copy-vio exists, be accurate in pointing it out and do not use a tag that marks the entire article as copy-vio. The aforementioned quote is just that, a proper referenced quote, which is allowed into wikipedia and is not a copy-vio. Regards Loudenvier 20:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

In fact, this article is one of the best referenced articles I have ever found in wikipedia. Loudenvier 20:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The original copy-vio tag was clearly intended as a disrupting vandalism. The page at worldwideboxers.com [4] is very different from this article. The last copy-vio brought by K8TEK is about a quotation from Gwen Bailey book which is perfectly accepted in wikipedia and is not a copy-vio itself. No need to alter it. The "original work" from the Australian Kennel Club is the one that is violating copyright by not citing its source (the Gwen book). Loudenvier 20:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't add the speedy deletion crap. Get your facts straight.--K8TEK 17:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Are you so sure? The Copy-vio tag that was put in the article simply states that the article qualifies for speed deletion, so that was what I was asking you about... Do you want to speed delete this article? No, of course not! So do not put this tag again because that's what this tag will do to the article: qualify it for speed deletion. You should have read the implications of using such drastic means to bring a concern about sources... Regards. Loudenvier 17:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)