Talk:Celibacy
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The article homosexual celibacy redirects to this page, but this page lacks any mention of celibacy due to reasons involving sexual or gender identity, nor anything of that nature. While it probably can fall into reasons for celibacy, it could potentially be an additional section; I have therefore added an request for expansion. (And please don't suggest that it should go into the homosexuality article instead - that thing is huge already!) - Heartofgoldfish 15:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Not my area, but I'll consider it.--T. Anthony 15:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Italic textI'd like to add something about Catholic priests, in terms of both celibacy and chastity. In particular, let's address the issue of homosexual priests. Since Catholicism does not deem homosexality itself sinful, a homosexual ought to be able to take the same vow of chastity (or celibacy?) as any other priest. Is this correct? Ed Poor
Yes -Ben
Not exactly. The recent Vatican document argues that celibacy in the sense of priestly celibacy is not a gift to someone who is homosexual and uninterested in marriage.
By the way, the old articles on celibacy and chastity were identical with the last paragraph of the Holy Orders article.
This looks like as good a place as any to put this:
The Catholic and Orthodox churches holds themselves to Canon 6 of the Council of Trullo in 692, which reads as follows:
"Since it is declared in the apostolic canons that of those who are advanced to the clergy unmarried, only lectors and cantors are able to marry; we also, maintaining this, determine that henceforth it is in nowise lawful for any subdeacon, deacon or presbyter after his ordination to contract matrimony but if he shall have dared to do so, let him be deposed. And if any of those who enter the clergy, wishes to be joined to a wife in lawful marriage before he is ordained subdeacon, deacon, or presbyter, let it be done."
- Two points: 1. it's the Council IN Trullo rather than OF. The Trullo was a part of the imperial palace at Constantinople, so it is like referring to the Capitol in our nation's Capital, or like the legislative affairs column in a state-capital newspaper being called "Under the Dome." Indeed, I think 'Trullo' may be a version of 'vault' or 'dome'. 2. The Latin Church did not accept the disciplinary canons of the Council in Trullo. Western rules on celibacy do not base themselves on that council (which also prohibited representations of Christ as a Lamb [Lamb of God] - one of the first signs of the coming Iconoclastic controversy). The rules for the non-Latin rites of the Catholic Church are actually separate (with their own ocde of canon law). MichaelTinkler
"The old meaning of this term was "to have sexual intercourse only with one's wife".
Anybody got a source on the "the original meaning of celibacy" quote? The author seems to be describing what's sometimes referred to as "continence". -Ben Brumfield
Exactly. Leaving aside the fact that celibacy is a noun and "to have sexual intercourse only with one's wife" is a verb, I've checked OED and there's no evidence for any such meaning. The original sense was "unmarried" and the current one is "not having sex". Deleted that sentence. Flapdragon 6 July 2005 22:30 (UTC)
[edit] List of famous celibates?
I wonder if this article could benefit from a "list of famous celibate people", like the "list of famous..." in other articles such as the one about homosexuality. A rather famous celibate is Paul Erdös, and Friedrich Nietzsche was also one by some accounts.
- Friedrich Nietzsche died of Syphilis, now: where could he have contracted that as a celibatarian? Kraxler 16:53, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Good idea.
- I will add a list of notable celibates to the article. One I can think of is Anne Widdecombe. Walton monarchist89 17:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- I could have sworn I saw something on TV that said Kyle Brady was celibate, but considering his article says he is married and has a son, that doesn't appear to be correct. Recury 16:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Thank you
Thank you for resonding for my call to assistance, AdelaMae and Hideouslywrinkled. Unfortunately, there were some mistakes. The Reformers did not give alternative interpretations of verses cited in favor of celibacy. hey cited verses they thought were against it, and their reasoning belongs in the Humor section (read the verses they cited). If it was people outside the Church thinking married priesthood was a solution, it would not even be mentioned (Catholics do not tell Muslims what colors they should paint their mosques to attract converts). Unfortunately, this opinion is held by many high-rank officials in the Church (but note: the insincere ones). And, as I said previously, "The sectors of the Church where vocations are the highest are those where the Church's teachings are followed, and the sectors where these teachings are not followed have the lowest." The data DOES exist, but I need to find it.JBogdan 15:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Main reason for celibacy?
Am I missing a vital piece of context for the "Reasons for celibacy" section of this article? It seems to me that the most obvious reason for celibacy, and one I would like to add to the list, is:
- An inability to obtain a willing sexual partner, due to social awkwardness or anxiety, physical or mental handicap, or lack of physical attractiveness and/or financial resources.
Blackworm 01:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Consider it done. Chris Henniker 16:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] merge this with 'clerical celibacy'?
I think this page should be merged with the entry about 'clerical celibacy'. While the content is partly the same, the entry for 'clerical celibacy' is more detailed, better structured and less biased. I stumbled upon the 'celibacy' entry when I wanted to find out something about the history of celibacy in the catholic church, but all I found was a biased argument why celibacy is a good thing and why all who say otherwise are 'insincere', 'uninformed' or 'humourous' (luckily, the latter two terms have been edited out). Even the external links don't provide information, but only propaganda for clerical celibacy. As you see, I think the 'clerical celibacy' entry is far superiour and this one should link to the other.
I agree. An article on "celibacy" that doesn't include clerics is fairly meaningless. Why would anyone care? Merge. A link to "clerical celibacy" is okay in the short run, but merge and delete this article long term. -student- 11/5/06
[edit] Other Traditions following Celebacy
I have added some reference to celebacy being practiced in both Hindu and Buddhist traditions. Certainly it is not only practiced within the Christian world - maybe people could expand these areas in order to make the article more 'global' in it's focus. How is it seen in different countries and cultures around the world? 82.163.63.228 15:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed Infobox for individual birth control method articles
Let's all work on reaching a consensus for a new infobox to be placed on each individual birth control method's article. I've created one to start with on the Wikipedia Proposed Infoboxes page, so go check it out and get involved in the process. MamaGeek (Talk/Contrib) 12:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Why Musical Linguist is downgrading the Wikipedia by deleting contributions?
I recently added a section about History of Celibacy. My additions showed when and who started the tradition of celibacy in Catholic Church.
Why Musical Linguist deleted them?
In my opinion he is downgrading Wikipedia by selectively editing chosen articles to enforce his agenda. The discussion about his other contribution clearly show that.
Please, let the moderator show his clear view and ban Musical Linguist from constant misediting wikipedia pages.
Thank you. User:83.19.104.34
Why did she do it? - Because your edits were downgrading WP by adding false information.
- Clerics (or laypeople) were never allowed by canon law to have concubines. Concubines are "unlawful" by definition.
- Clerics were allowed to keep wives married before their ordination - in the Latin Rite up to the 11th century - in the Eastern Rites until today.
- Clerics were never allowed to marry, only allowed to retain their wives, albeit under certain restrictions.
- The ordinance of Pelagius I, if he issued such a thing, has nothing to do with marriages. It merely protects Church property and reiterates something that should be obvious to any moral person, Christian or not.
- There is no doubt that many clerics had, in spite of canon law and morality, concubines and hence there are also reiterations of the ban, e.g. by Pope Benedict VIII.
- The property question certainly has a part in the 11th century implementation of general celibacy, but you are overdoing it. Spiritual reasons were much more prevalent, as many believers demanded to have celibate priests.
Good day, Str1977 (smile back) 09:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Religious/clerical celibacy
I would suggest the whole section on religious celibacy is too focused on the Catholic church. Of course it is a major topic of debate and interest within that Church, but surely the subject of the Catholic view of celibacy should be a subset (albeit a substantial one) of a general heading on celibacy due to religious belief, since practitioners of other variants of Christendom (and of other faiths) may also choose celibacy because of their beliefs. 82.153.129.223 23:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
There's a seperate article on clerical celibacy that I think it would be better for this article to refer users to who are interested in that aspect of celibacy. The whole article needs a re0write and I've started to do a bit of a literature search (this not being my field, it takes days at the library which are few and far between :-). From what I've seen so far, we should have 4 sections on the "whys": religious belief and practice, physical/biological causes; social reasons (including involuntary celibacy); and cultural forces. There has been a request to cover homosexual celibacy (and the article homosexual celibacy points to this article), but from my search so far, homosexual celibacy doesn't seem to be rooted in anything different from hetrosexual celibacy. So I was thinking of incorporating homosexual perspectives throughout the article rather than having a seperate section. --SiobhanHansa 00:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
- The article is not that large. How much of it do you want to devote to homosexual celibacy? Is it really that important of a subset? (The figures I've seen indicate it might be overrepresented, but it'd still only be around 15%)--T. Anthony 04:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- I wasn't thinking it would be a huge bit, more that it would make it clear that (for the most part) reasons for celibacy, and approaches for handling it, were not related to sexual orientation. I'm still reading up on this, so I'm not clear how I'd do it. Feel free to edit yourself :-) --SiobhanHansa 13:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lopsided views
This article is very lopsided; more than half of it touches on the Christian aspect of celibacy. The practical and secular forms of celibacy (such as the involuntary celibacy experienced by professed nerds) are mentioned in the opening, but largely ignored by the rest of the article. Even the section which deals with reasons for celibacy makes a highly biased statement on celibacy by quoting the Apostle Paul verbatim at the end. I'm not sure how we could rebalance the article, because celibacy is usually associated with religion in the first place, but a good start might be to focus more on celibacy in non-Christian religions and the secular celibate. Johnleemk | Talk 17:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
