User talk:Csernica

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Contents 1 Archive 2 Adminship 3 An award 4 Middle-earth WikiProject 4.1 Gandalf 5 Saruman edit - thanks! 6 Morgoth 7 Literature Circles Image Fix 8 General grooviness 9 a user conduct RFC 10 Kontakion 11 San Francisco Bay 12 particular judgment 13 Image copyright issues 14 Systematic 15 Trinity 16 Talk:Roman Catholic Church 17 First pope in Roman Catholic Church 18 The Sanctuary 19 1/0 20 Third opinion 21 Your Thoughts on the John Chrysostom Article? 22 Logos 23 Raccoon Links 24 Thanks 25 Your Welcome 26 Orphaned fair use image (Image:OCA-logo.png) 27 RfA Advice 28 New Talk Page 29 Request for input 30 Saint Moses 31 Moses a saint? 32 Possible renaming of Wikipedia:WikiProject Saints 33 Article on Fool for Christ 34 Can you help with article on Intinction? 35 Saint 36 Thank you 37 LOTR Racism 38 Image:Vinyl Art by kingofthefield.jpg 39 Thank you 40 Trinity, again. 41 Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom 42 Invite to WikiProject Spam 43 John Chrysostom

[edit] Archive

/Archive 1
/Archive 2

[edit] Adminship

Are you an administrator? Would you like to be one?

--Ryan ^TALK 22:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An award

		The Saints Star
		I award this Barnstar to Csernica for their great efforts in designing Template:Infobox Saint. --evrik 15:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

• If you think someone else made your work easier ... maybe you should spread the wikilove. --evrik 17:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for prettifying the Nazareth page. I am very bad at formatting and appreciate your selfless intervention. Seeing that you tend to do this quite regularly, I award you

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		for tireless effort in making Wikipedia pages easy on the eyes

Tiamut 10:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Middle-earth WikiProject

Hello, Csernica!

Thank you for your contributions to a Tolkien-related article. If you are interested, feel free to join WikiProject Middle-earth, a WikiProject focused on improving Tolkien-related articles in Wikipedia. We would be glad to have you join in the effort!

Here're some good links and subpages related to the WikiProject.

• Middle-earth WikiProject discussion
• Middle-earth WikiProject things to do - A compilation of all the tasks that are needed to do
• Middle-earth Standards (talk)
• Middle-earth WikiProject Portal

If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask on our talk page.

Thank you for your contributions and have fun editing! —Mirlen 05:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gandalf

Your comment on Gandalf's article made me laugh, but while you do have a point (looking from the POV of the good side, i.e. Gandalf), we could make the same case using the same logic with Melkor, who was dubbed Morgoth by Fëanor and the rest of the Elves. Morgoth was a variation of an insult, or rather a name that was purposely supposed to contain negative connotation, as is the case with one Gandalf's names, Láthspell. It's all a matter of perspective, but because Wikipedia is supposed to be in NPOV, I think it's legitimate case to have the name included. Also, if Gandalf was called "cranky old man" or "doody-head," (as you prefer :D) then we would not include it as one of his names because these are common insults not specialized to Gandalf. Láthspell, on the other hand, is a name given to Gandalf and him alone. —Mirlen 05:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You do have a point, and I concur...to an extent. However, "that dratted wizard" and "old fool" should not be considered as the same case as with Láthspell. "That dratted wizard" and "Old fool" are labels and common insults; they are not particularly specialized to Gandalf. The description Theoden gives to Gandalf ("wisest of counsellors, most welcome of wanderers, a lord of the Mark, a chieftain of the Eorlingas") is as you said, an epithet. However, Láthspell is a name given to Gandalf; it is specialized for him by courtesy of Grima Wormtongue; how commonly it is used shouldn't be the determining factor of whether or a name is a name. For example, Eleanor Roosevelt's real name was Anna Eleanor Roosevelt. Anna was almost never used, she was referred to by her middle name — but was common usage a factor in determining whether or not Anna was a name of Eleanor's (temporarily disregarding that it was her birth name)? While Láthspell functions as to negatively describe Gandalf, it is still a name.

"Láthspell I name you, Ill-news; and ill news is an ill guest they say."

The manner in which Grima names Gandalf sounds similiar as how a royal would be crowned and thus would be given a new name to govern a country by (though the intentions and circumstances are entirely different). It is not used as a throwaway label or an insult i.e. "Old fool," but as a name to dub Gandalf.

But rather then deciding whether or not Láthspell is a name, what I'm more concerned about is the big picture. As aforementioned, common usage of a name shouldn't be the factor of determing the validity of a name; it should be the manner in which the name is given that should be the factor. For instance, how often was the name, The Dúnadan, used to refer to Aragorn? If I recall correctly (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), The Dúnadan was only used by Bilbo. A vast majority of the people called the man Aragorn, Estel or Elfstone. —Mirlen 18:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Arwen calls him Dúnadan. "I will cleave to you, Dúnadan, and turn from the Twilight." (Appendix A). Carcharoth 21:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "Dúnadan" was a name by which Aragorn was sometimes called. It "took", so to speak. No one ever really called Gandalf "Láthspell". And I'm sorry, but there's a vast difference between the formal bestowing of a name on coronation (or ordination, or the taking of monastic vows, etc.) and Wormtongue's little "neener-neener" comment. By that standard, I could say to you, "Dingleberry, I name you!" and that would actually be a name of yours from now on. Obviously absurd. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, technically both Bilbo and Arwen were using it in the sense of "Man of the West". Kind of mixing in their Adunaic (I think) with their Westron. Compare Turin's monicker of Adanedhel. Anyway, this all reinforces a point that was made before. Detailed stuff on names needs to go in the main text. If these have all been put in the infoboxes as "names", then the details are lost and the linguistic subtleties are not evident. Personally I find the "names" bit of the infobox more trouble than it is worth. Would be much nicer to have the explanations and translations of the different names in the article. Carcharoth 23:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I stand corrected — I must've missed that in the text. It's been a time since I've read that tale. Thanks Carcharoth. :) (Oh, on the point with infoboxes, I'll post a note on your talk page. My post will be too long by that time. To TCC: you're welcome to jump in the conversation since I'm merely moving a reply that's a part of this disucssion.)

Also, TCC, I think you're missing what I've said earlier: (though the intentions and circumstances are entirely different). I've made the distinction between a coronation and Wormtongue's comment that the circumstances are seperate. However, I apologize if I wasn't clear enough in my language. It isn't an important point of mine anyway.

Well, if you consistently called me Dingleberry, then it would be one of the names I would be called. It may not be a name I may go by, but it's one of the names that is used to call me. Láthspell is a name for Gandalf, regardless of whether or not he undertakes it doesn't mean it isn't a name. It is a name or rather, a "nickname," it just isn't what he goes by. You seem to argue that common usage is the determining factor for what should be considered a name, that's what I'm more concerned with more than the issue with one of Gandalf's names, as I have also mentioned earlier: "But rather then deciding whether or not Láthspell is a name, what I'm more concerned about is the big picture."

But as of now, I do see the flaws in my current argument because there is hardly any more scenes afterwards of Wormtongue interacting with Gandalf — hence, the lack of stronger evidence from the book itself specifically. Not to say that he wouldn't have called Gandalf Láthspell if they encountered each other continously or if Wormtongue managed to bewitch the whole town with his words so that they'd call Gandalf Láthspell, but I do admit the lack of interaction between them supports any point. I am not going to make the cases, however, because then I would be drawing upon hypothetical situations not facts. Therefore, I'll put aside my arguments to R.I.P. ;)

But as I have ended my last reply with, I would like to get back to common usage as the determining factor — moving away from Gandalf and more towards the generel idea. And more importantly, these are the questions I feel we need to answer in regards to situations in general: To what point to we draw a line on nicknames/monickers for them to be considered as names? If a name is used as a negative way, do we not consider it? Do we consider names with positive or neutral meanings as legimite names? How much does common usage play into as a factor of determining the validity of a name? (I'm honestly not trying to pick an argument. For me, I'm always interested in hearing different POVs.) —Mirlen 23:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Have you read my third paragraph? I did admit that I was drawing on hypothetical situations, wasn't I? However, I would like to move on to the general idea of common usage. How much of a role does it play into being considered as a true name? —Mirlen 00:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

You're talking about the move right? Well, obviously it should be moved to Morgoth because WP:NC states that "Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize" — and Googling 'Morgoth' has shown that name to be the winner. But we aren't talking about naming articles (As you can see, I have not proposed to move Gandalf to Láthspell). I fail to see how following WP:NC has to do with determining a validity of a name. Unless I have missed your point completely, I would like to repeat myself again: "I would like to move on to the general idea of common usage. How much of a role does it play into being considered as a true name?" It seems to me that we're debating on details that are already settled instead of focusing on the bigger picture because I have said to quote, that I would put my arguments on Láthspell "to R.I.P.". But as I have said, if you feel you have addressed the general idea on the link you provided me, then please correct me. (By general, I mean out of Gandalf, Morgoth, and LotR and more towards encompassing topics in genereal.) —Mirlen 00:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

<deindent> Personally, I think Lathspell should be mentioned in some way. There is a liguistic point to be made there, but I can't think quite what it is at the moment. I'm sure Shippey or someone mentions it. Regarding names in general, consider Aragorn, where the "name" Longshanks is given. However, the Aragorn#Names_and_titles is missing the following (please move this to that talk page if you want, and apologies to TCC for continuing this conversation on your talk page): Envinyatar (the Renewer), Isildur's Heir/The Heir of Isildur, Elendil's Heir/The Heir of Elendil, Captain of the Host of the West, Thorongil, Stick-at-nought Strider, Ranger of the North, Lord Aragorn, Chieftain of the Dunedain of Arnor, King of the West, King Elessar, last of the Numenoreans, the latest King of the Elder Days, and finally, of the house of Valandil. Some of these are pedantic in the extreme, but if nothing else, these names illustrate Aragorn's history and lineage. Now the trouble is finding a source that makes something of all these names, otherwise it is just OR. Hmm. PS. I'm having difficulty following the above, as I think the conversation is taking place across talk pages. I'll bow out gracefully now! :-) Carcharoth 00:27, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. Just a few more comments. "I name you" is the construction that both Eomer and Gildor Inglorion use, when naming Aragorn and Frodo, "Wingfoot" and "Elf-friend" respectively. If that helps. And the act of naming often does mean something. Tolkien's "Guide to the name in LotR" might have more to say about this (he wrote it to aid translators when deciding what to do with names). Other examples of things gaining new names are Minas Anor/Tirith and Minas Ithil/Morgul, and Greenwood -> Mirkwood, and Narsil -> Anduril, and the bit where Tom Bombadil give Merry's ponies new names "they answered to the new names that Tom had given them for the rest of their lives", and where Durin names the nameless hills and dells, and Sauron and Mordor being referred to as "the Nameless Enemy/Land", and the Balrog being the "nameless fear". Finally (really!) is this bit from Tom again: "Don’t you know my name yet? That’s the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?". Carcharoth 00:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Before I have to leave (the discussion is just too enticing for me to resist ;)), I'll just go over things briefly and resond in-depthly later when I get the chance. On the point with Eomer and Gildor Inglorion (as well as Tom and the ponies), it does help indeed. I must reread to those parts to revisit memories of yore...I honestly don't remember at all. Does anyone have Tolkien's "Guide to the names in LotR"? Because getting words from the Professor himself would be handy. Also, I think this discussion should move so other Tolkien editors can participate. Insights from more people would be very helpful since this issue has gotten larger. —Mirlen 00:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saruman edit - thanks!

Just spotted this. THe most disgusting piece of Tolkien OR I have ever seen. Thanks for removing it! :-) Carcharoth 21:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but I can't take too much credit. Reversions are pretty easy. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morgoth

In case Mirlen and Carcharoth are both watching here, please take a look at Morgoth Lord Morgoth Bauglir Morgoth Bauglir (LOTR) Melkor/Morgoth Bauglir. Someone's been playing. I've placed a request at WP:RM to move it back, but since I figured the user in question might get argumentative I've placed it in the possibly controversial moves section. Please comment at the talk page. TCC (talk) (contribs) 00:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I added my support. The move to Morgoth makes perfect sense. —Mirlen 00:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

So you are the one who thinks the mountain giant information should be deleted, huh? I would really appreciate if you went ahead and took the stupid deletion warning off of my page. I created that and it should not be deleted. If you think I am seeing things, go read the Books again. I do admitt I screwed the title up I should not have put Mountain Giants, I should have written Stone Giants. But this information is all correct. I would site your stupid sources if I knew how, the minute I learn I shall, just to make you happy. Now, lets make me happy and get rid of the Deletion thingy. Tolkien ideed did write a book called Guide to Middle Earth, and this was my main source of information. It was cut from stores in the 80's but luckliy my father bought it before then, and passed it down to me. I have said it and I shall say it again All of this information it true, and anyways why do you care, it's not bothering you is it? I don't think so. I am not your friend, I am not your enemy, but you are turning me against you, I want my page to stay. My final notice is that if this page is deleted I WILL WRITE IT AGAIN!

[edit] Literature Circles Image Fix

Thanks, Csernica, for fixing my huge image that I was fighting to fix. You saved my day!! I've been working on that article for an assignment for a course and was cursing that I didn't know how to reduce the pix. size. I am grateful to you!! User:Deborahcox 02:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General grooviness

Just want to tell you that you have excellent interests, good work! féerique 10:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey Csernica, sorry about what happened over the mountain giant page. Yes this is my new name, Samug the Mighty, pretty cool huh? Well from above I can see you are a Tolkien fanatic, just like me. Well, guess I'll catch you around, you can start a new talk with me if you like, you know, just to talk, well see you later !

[edit] a user conduct RFC

Hi. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/BZ(Bruno Zollinger) involves a user who got into a dispute with you on Talk:Miracle, in case you want to comment. ←Hob 06:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kontakion

I just assumed that being such a short article any input would be handy, and i highly doubt myself or anyone would simply bludgen the post with every Kontakion they could find....

but hey, obviously you are more qualified to decide which ones should be open to the public through wikipedia.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tophatdan (talk • contribs).

[edit] San Francisco Bay

Nice (style,gallery) images edit. Thank you. Uriel8 19:56, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

---

You showed how to format the Image: links for the gallery tag by removing the square brackets. Then I noticed that the trailing spaces between the Image: links has to be trimmed, too.

Thank you for your compliment on the images.

I will now use the Preview button, as you mentioned... was trying to avoid the sandbox thingy with my slow internet connection, but I should have been doing that. Oops! Should clean up the history a lot. Uriel8 21:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

---

Note that you had not left spaces at the end of any Image: tags, but when I first tried to add a (style gallery) like yours to the Mount Tamalpais article, the trailing space after the first Image: tag caused the second Image: tag to appear as text only.

BTW, what do you think about combining the Stub article called Mount Tamalpais State Park with the longer article on Mount Tamalpais? It seems that the two are really identical, and it might be nice to have the State Park stats in the longer article.

Thanks for the note on underscores in Wiki link names and general WP:HELP links. I did not know about those. Uriel8 22:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] particular judgment

Thanks for your help on Purgatory. I think that the particular judgment page might not represent Eastern Orthodox views very well, if you could give us a hand over there, too. Jonathan Tweet 03:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I want to stop in and say a thank you as well, much appreciated. Lostcaesar 09:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright issues

Through e-mail, Nasmith gave permission to use his images in August this year. (I hope it's not insufficient? So far permission's kept copies of Jenny Dolfen's and Anke Katrin Eißmann's art from being deleted.) I should have emphasized that; thanks. I've actually uploaded three other Nasmith images:

• Image:NasmithBlackGate.jpg
• Image:NasmithGandalfBalrog1.jpg
• Image:NasmithMinasTirith.jpg

I'll remove the whole Rolozo thing from their rationales and emphasize "permission given".

From the Wikiproject talk page archive - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Middle-earth/archive5#New_Images (with added bolding)

I was thinking about possibly getting some of the Ted Nasmith illustartions from the Silmarillion up particulary for the Manwe and Turin article. -Dhawk1964 16:50, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's all the information you need. I've contacted Anke and Dolfen through email before and they were generous enough to give permission — so I think that if you email Ted Nasmith he'd be fine with it, as long as you explain the whole fair use issue thoroughly in Wikipedia. I was also thinking of using his "Eärendil Searches Tirion" picture for the Tirion upon Túna article. In fact, it might be best to ask him how many images he'll allow to be put on Wikipedia if he does give permission. —Mirlen 19:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

• I sent an email through his website, but it said that he only respons periodicaly, so it may be a while before we have permissions. But I did explain the fair use policy. Dhawk1964 00:12, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Great. :) If this thread gets archived and Ted Nasmith has responded, feel free to either pull it out again, or just tell me on talk page. Thanks! —Mirlen 13:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• I just got a response: "I’m happy to accept this request, yes. And yes, I guess I am curious about what specific purpose they will serve.

Regards, Ted" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dhawk1964 (talk • contribs).

Awesome. Then I'm assuming that we're allowed to use his images? I'll fix the Standards page, he can check the artwork we're using in the 'Fair use' section. —Mirlen 17:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yea, we can use them. I'll send him the 'Fair use' policy link.Dhawk1964 10:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I confess I've already uploaded Image:NasmithGandalfBalrog1.jpg (Gandalf and the Balrog), modeling the fair use rationale on Mirlen's for the Faramir and Maedhros images - without Nasmith's permission. But, to quote myself - "Nasmith apparently allows larger versions of his images to be distributed as long as they have copyright watermarks on them, which this image has. (See http://fan.theonering.net/rolozo/ - Entry for November 12 2002)" - as pointed out by Hyarion of Tolkien Gateway earlier. It's currently on the Gandalf, Balrog and Durin's Bane articles; besides, it's refreshing to see unwinged Balrogs :D. At least now we've got permission... BTW, updated Standards page to reflect the suggestions above. Uthanc 11:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
• I thought I saw that... it's alright, we just need to get some more up now. Dhawk1964 15:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I just uploaded an image in the Tirion article. So far we've got Tirion, Balrog, Durin's Bane — anymore articles that contain Nasmith's artwork? (Remember the limit is around 5-7, so choose wisely ;).) —Mirlen 20:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
    • You forgot Gandalf - and our standards say that "Generally, there should be no more than 5-7 illustrations or photographs from the same artist in a work". Doesn't that mean we can use illustrations from the same artist for more than 7 times, just not in a single article? Uthanc 01:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
    • He has a great one of Manwe descending on Numenor, it would be nice to see that one up. Oh, and possibly one of Luthien. I like his depictions of her the best. Dhawk1964 19:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I meant as no more than 5-7 images created by the artist (the artist's work) used in articles, but the the fair use section in Me:S needs updating and rewriting. And recently, I've seen a lot of other articles that use images of the same article more than 7 times, so I guess it's alright. I can see how my words were confusing, sorry. (I also liked Jenny Dolfen and Anke Katrin Eissman's portrayals of Luthien.) —Mirlen 17:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay? If all of the art including Dolfen's and Eißmann's gets axed due to possibilities of free equivalents, we'll be stuck with adaptation images again, but that can't be helped. Surely art by known (at least in the field), and more importantly selling artists is better than that by some guy/girl? But appealing to emotion is invalid, I guess. Uthanc 12:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

What next, then? I suppose we (the project) should clarify things by asking permission again. Uthanc 00:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it Wiki-legal to have the Nasmith images just speedily deleted? I don't think so. Uthanc 18:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I finally got around to e-mailing Nasmith; just though you should know. I hope he replies before Dec. 19, if I'm correct. If not, I can't re-upload that (specific watermarked?) image again, right? You could have warned me about it first, you know. Uthanc 10:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

From the notice: "Unless the copyright status of the media is clarified, it will be deleted one week after its listing. Material compliant with our copyright requirements may be uploaded after deletion. Do not re-upload the media that was here before. It will be removed." (bolding theirs) I gave Nasmith the option to allow larger or smaller versions, with or without watermarks. It's up to him. Uthanc 11:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm resting easier now. Thanks for the help. Uthanc 11:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Systematic

You may disagree with me about the the definition of mythology (and note that utterances by two Christian writers have no real bearing on this), but I must take exception to your statement that what I did was systematic. Wetman accused me of having systematically "methodically gone through articles included in the Category:Christian mythology removing them" - I did more or less systematically go through the category but I did not systematically remove the articles included - otherwise why are there articles left? Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 09:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trinity

Csernica, Why have you been reverting posts so many times on Trinity? I was troubled that you changed several of my additions without explaining why first or discussing them. I felt you were taking control for yourself something that should bbe shared between us. I have found revisions are a heavy handed approach best reserved for spam. ...Just_Nigel —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Just nigel (talk • contribs) 07:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Talk:Roman Catholic Church

Sounds good. I don't see how he/she can keep adding them. Slac speak up! 01:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First pope in Roman Catholic Church

I'm surprised by your statement that Eastern Orthodox do not consider St. Peter to be the first Pope. This is not my reading of Bishop Ware's book on the Orthodox Church. Who do you say the Orthodox consider to be the first pope? -- Cat Whisperer 05:34, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Sanctuary

Thanks for cleaning up the section on the sanctuary. I get a little too wordy. Concerning the Thronos; I wonder what is most common. While I have often seen synthronos behind the altar, in almost all cases the Thronos for the bishop was in the nave on the right side. Also, I think the relics contained within the altar are supposed to be specifically Martyr’s relics. Your comments? --Phiddipus 17:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it may simply be ethnic differences. In the Greek tradition I am familiar with the Bishop enters the church wearing the Episcopal mantia. He moves to the center of the nave and stands on an eagle rug. His vestments are brought out one by one with prayers being chanted by the Deacon. The choir sings all through the vesting ending with Eis Pola Eti Despota. He is given the Trikyrie and Dikyrie and blesses the congregation. He is then escorted to the thronos on the right hand side of the nave. He stays there until the little entrance, then he goes into the altar for the rest of the service.

The book of Revelations (Rev 6:9) mentions the Martyrs being under the altar; I wonder if that has any direct relationship. --Phiddipus 22:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess it depends on the size of the church. I know among the Slavic churches there was a kind of competition to see who could build the biggest and most elaborate church, but Greeks, especially in Greece tend to have fairly small churches (with a few exceptions, of course). Consider St Gregory Palamas, his cathedral had enough room for only about 12 families. I have seen many churches so small that they have only one deacon’s door, or none at all. Still, I have seen churches with seating behind the altar for clergy. I suppose in larger churches there is a “high seat” for the bishop. I have seen a portable throne that is set to the right front of the altar for the bishop to use when ordaining priests. But for the most part, when the bishop sits it’s in the thronos outside the altar. The only other person I have ever seen use the thronos was the deacon if he is reading the gospel, and he stands. --Phiddipus 05:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1/0

Thank you for your concern and your appreciation Csernica for the article on 1/0. I have to ask you however, how does 1/0 not have to do with the article on 1/0? Do you mean I should create a disambiguation page to delineate between the comic and the number? If so, can you please help me in doing this instead of just deleting the article? I'm not that new but I still don' know all of the tricks of the trade. Thanks in advance. Sincerely, germanium

It's better practice to ony revert once yourself, and let others do it as well, because of WP:3RR. CMummert 23:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that guy was pretty persistent. And just when you had convinced me I should be more friendly to him in the future... CMummert 03:45, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third opinion

Robert Clarkson Clothier, quote or no quote. Use the history to see each one. Do you go to the Hungarian festival in New Brunswick? Enjoy you Xmass on Sunday. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 08:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC) You will have to come back and visit NJ. I just came back from Sacramento. SO quote box or no quote box in the article? Do you work on your family history too?

[edit] Your Thoughts on the John Chrysostom Article?

Hi,Csernica . I was wondering if you could look at the John Chrysostom and make or suggest improvements. Thanks. Majoreditor 02:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC) mnewmanqc 21:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)==NJ Dialect== Great job! You seem uncertain about the house vowel. I'm not familiar with it, but it looks right, at least tentatively. mnewmanqc 13:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I should organize a field trip down there!!! Let's see if I can figure out how to get someone to give me money for it.;-

As for books, I'd look at Walt Wolfram and Natalie Schilling-Estes American English second edition. It's a textbook, but it's accessible. I think you're beyond Walt's American Voices, which has nothing technical at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mnewmanqc (talk • contribs) 21:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Logos

You told me about my Image:GRAM_Logo.gif. I did put a copyright on it, I created it. I created the logo and copyrighted it as well as the other logos: Image:GRAM_Games_Logo.gif and Image:Rumor_Productions_Logo.gif I don't have a licsence for them, but they are my creations and I copyrghted them. Is that good enough? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ryan Keyes (talk • contribs).

I revised the copyright tag. Is it okay now? It is a general copyright tag.

--Ryan ^TALK 18:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Raccoon Links

I was sorry to see that you removed the link from the Raccoon page. I don't mean to quibble, but aren't MOST unofficial holidays invented by someone? And people do celebrate International Raccoon appreciation Day. But for peace-keeping sake, I'll leave the link off until it's been better documented or someone else adds it. Russia Moore 02:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the info on the signature. I'll keep those directions in mind. About the copyright thing, I changed it. I sit ok now? I do have the images on the User:Gram productions page. Thanks.

--Ryan ^TALK 03:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your Welcome

I viewed your talk archives and noticed their wasn't any tag on there that says it is an archive and do not edit. I put one on both of your archives. The text should look like this: {{talkarchive}} and the tag will look like this:

--Ryan ^TALK 16:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:OCA-logo.png)

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[edit] RfA Advice

Thanks for the advice. I probably don't want to put up with it, you're right.

--Ryan ^TALK 00:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Talk Page

I have a new account on Wikimedia Commons. To visit my empty talk page, click here.

--Ryan ^TALK 00:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for input

Your review of, and comments concerning, the section "Experiencing God" on the talk page of Christian mysticism would be appreciated. Thanks. --Midnite Critic 15:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Moses

There are two: a Saint Moses who was a Christian era monk in Egypt I believe in the early days of monasticism, and Moses, THE Moses: as the Scriptures take for granted that he is in heaven, he would be a saint, even as older theology would have put him in Heaven only after the "Harrowing of Hell" and the emptying of the "Limbo of the Fathers" ...Western Christianity notes this but doesn't make much of it, while Byzantine Christians, I believe, are more apt to have icons and such on rare occasions of Old testament figures.HarvardOxon 23:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

In fact, in the Catholic Church there is a recognition of "saints by tradition," whose honoring precedes the medieval, centralized, formal procedure of canonization -- The apostles, barnabas, and other Biblical figures, in addition to patrick, Augustine, Antony Abbas, Pachomius etc., were never formally canonized by the Pope.HarvardOxon 23:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moses a saint?

The Roman Martyrology includes the names of five persons called Moses. The most famous one, the one you are interested in at this moment, is mentioned on 4 September in the following terms (my unpolished translation): "The remembrance of Saint Moses (or holy Moses), the prophet, whom God chose to free the people oppressed in Egypt and lead them to the promised land, and to whom God revealed himself on Mount Sinai, saying: "I am who am" and gave him the Law to guide the life of the chosen people. This servant of God died, full of days, on Mount Nebo in the land of Moab within sight of the promised land."

The Roman Martyrology seems to include all the Old Testament prophets, at least all the better known ones, and so not only those who have books named after them, but also Elijah and Elisha. Lima 05:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible renaming of Wikipedia:WikiProject Saints

It has been suggested that the above named project be renamed Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian saints. Please express your opinion on this proposed renaming, and the accompanying re-definition of the scope of the project, here. John Carter 17:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article on Fool for Christ

Thanks for the comments! Majoreditor 07:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can you help with article on Intinction?

Hi. May I trouble you to look at and possibly improve the article on intinction? The article says hardly mentions how intinction is practiced in the Eastern churches. Thanks! Majoreditor 02:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. Majoreditor 19:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saint

I did a re-write of the "other religions" section of this article, based on our conversations at WP Saints. Would you mind having a look at it and seeing what you think? Thanks. - Pastordavid 17:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Thank you for your help. I'll look over your recommendations this weekend. -Yahuzs 17:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LOTR Racism

Yeah, I dont think you should have removed that peice in the Lord of the Rings article, yes it did need some citations but it wasn't nonfactual, the observations made were completely correct and taken directly from the books. In my opinion there was not enough straight opinion or speculation to warrant an outright removal. Perhaps you should discuss the matter in the discussion page. Sultangris 02:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Well, you're wrong. Some of your "observations...taken directly from the books" weren't even from LotR, nor have you given sufficient thought to what you read to fully understand it. (For instance, if you think the Rohirrim were being portrayed as "good" in everything they'd ever done in their history, you've badly misread the text.) So out it goes. TCC (talk) (contribs) 02:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Not only did the information you removed NOT say that the Rohirrim have always been good, but actually says that they were, in fact, aligned with evil, at the beginning of the Lord of the Rings. Perhaps, before you accuse one of badly misreading the text, you should first correctly read their contributions. If you want to challenge the addition of this information, take it to the talk page.Ntchwaidumela 03:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I responded as briefly as I could to the original editor, since Talk pages aren't forums.Admitted that my stuff is no less OR than his/hers, but at least it's more supportable overall. What do real critics like Tom Shippey have to say? If we include this charge we should add their stuff. Uthanc 04:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Vinyl Art by kingofthefield.jpg

If that is indeed the case, then the uploader themself needs to add information like this. An image description of "== Licensing == {{pd-self}}" is not sufficient information, and if you see any images tagged this way in future, they should be challenged. There needs to be at the very least a statement by the uploader confirming that they did indeed take the picture. Anyway, if that's a photo of an album, it is fair use, not PD. Chris cheese whine 00:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

I wanted to tell you how appreciative I am of the helpful notes you have been giving me. I'm rather new at all this, and need all the helpful suggestions I can get. Please keep me in your prayers. MishaPan 05:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, also, for your help on the user page issue.Bearian 14:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trinity, again.

Hey, thanks for your support in the discussion over the inclusion of the nontrinitarian links. Now that the whole thing seems settled, for the most part, more productive changes can take place within the Trinity article. I'd like to take some time in defending the Trinity doctrine on Nontrinitarianism, but it seems like it would be a sour move at the moment, considering how long the discussion went on when it concerned the inclusion of links. I'm also unsure in general how much of a response/rebuttal is warranted... it isn't exactly "Criticisms of the Trinity", but the article practically serves that purpose. Anyway, thanks for your input.--C.Logan 01:47, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom

Am I the only one who finds the sudden appearance of an article ex nihilo to be slightly dodgy? InfernoXV 02:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invite to WikiProject Spam

Hello, Csernica. Thanks for input on tolkiengateway.net. If you're interested, come join us at WikiProject Spam and help fight linkspammers on Wikipedia. --Hu12 00:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Chrysostom

Article has passed as GA. -- Pastordavid 20:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)