Talk:Disc jockey

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[edit] Radio DJ Section

This is in awful shape-- starting with the unsubstantiated claim that "It is actually quite uncommon for a DJ on a radio station to personally enjoy the music they are playing" and ending with the declaration that "Rarely, a DJ is encouraged to inject their own personality into their show." I think there's an industry-hater out there.

[edit] Tim Westwood

I think the DJ legend Tim Westwood needs a lil mention here. He has done a lot for DJing ever since Jimmy Saville invented it. Infact Tim Westwood is really a hiphop version of Jimmy Saville.

Tim Westwood has completely revolutionised what we perceive DJing to be. Tim Westwood pioneered the use of sound effects: computerised and human (once he forgot his box of gadgets and had to make bomb sounds with his mouth).

He also pioneered the technique of shouting out slogans over the mic while DJing... "Bow down and kiss the ring", and "Im God's favourite DJ."

[edit] First drafts

I cringe to think of how much time I could have spent on this rough article. I still marvel at how much time and how seriously one can dissect and tinker with the workings of pop culture phenomena. Regardless, for those that ARE wondering:

1) I didn't go into detailed discussions of radio DJs vs. club DJs vs. wedding DJs..... here because (as I said) for as different as they can all be, they really are all doing pretty much the same thing (and usually all with the same tools). Besides, this description (argument?) can be found on any number of "DJ FAQs" all over the web.

2) re: the "DJ as artist" section: Any number of arguments can be made w/r/t/ to what constitutes a DJ, an artist, an "art DJ," an artistic DJ, etc. (Getting my drift?) A DJ can mix artistically and/or innovatively and still wind up with an end result that is simply two songs mixed together. Then again, I don't necessarily consider a "turntablist" to be an artist either...

I've tried to clarify the definition of "DJ" while explaining how broad that definition can be. I wanted to get rid of all the parethesis and e.g.'s found in the

earlier version as they clouded an already cloudy issue. I'll be developing the technique and equipment sections, including searching for appropriate, existing entires and changing my wording accordingly. I'll probably tackle the DJ as Artist section after that, which could use some work. A history of DJing section may follow. PAW

I'm new, I don't feel quite comfortable enough yet to make any changes, so I'll just suggest some. I think there should be some mention of David Mancuso, he is often credited as the father of the modern DJ. Also, the link for phrasing specifically discusses phasing and not phrasing. Speaking as a DJ I think phrasing is a fairly important concept. Starx

[edit] Proposed Outline

The current intro is great. What needs work is the descriptions of various DJs. I propose the three category break down I just added to the article and found below.

Intro
Types of DJs: in order of increasing musical involvement and intervention
1. Radio DJs
2. Mobile/Party DJs
3. Club DJs
4. Hip hop and experimental DJs/Turntablists
Techniques
List of DJS

Hyacinth 19:59, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC), User:Hyacinth/Outlines

Club and party DJ's should be seperate. There is most definitly a cultural and artistic aspect present in club DJ's that doesn't exist in party DJ's. I would split the DJ's into radio/club/mobile/turtablist --Starx 02:40, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

So may we lay different groups on a pole with the most musical involvement and intervention at one end and the least at the other, as above? Hyacinth 04:35, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I like that, I think that's a good system. I think the "order of musical involvement" thing should be kept low key though, otherwise well have all sorts of objections from people saying this DJ is better then that DJ blah blah. But yea, I think thats a good classification/ranking. --Starx 03:15, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I find the structure to self-explain that different types of DJs serve different purposes (a hip hop DJ doesn't need or want the skills of a radio DJ), but we should also spell out, "Type of DJs differ by location and more so by purpose." So, I think you bring up a good point that it is questionable who "affects" the music more, a radio DJ who may comment directly on the music before and after its play while also providing a general background for the music, or a hip hop DJ who alters and superimposes different musics creating a new context for them but without directly commenting on them. I have not heard or read of a valid way to make a distinction between those types of "involvement" and so I agree it should be dropped. Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I respectfully don't agree, things change and as DJ who has done radio, club, weddings, bedroom, house-party and event DJing as well as in parades and in the woods i think the catagories should be kept as simple overviews as many DJs don't fit neatly into those boxes and the categories themselves change with technology and society.

Where does Collage fit in? Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Is there a better place for "Techniques"? If we were to describe the technique of skateboarders, it would be at Skateboarding. Deejaying is not currently an article, and there may be a better of which I am unaware for what a DJ does. Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The main problem comes from the fact that the same word is used for many different situations. A dj plays records, fine :) going any further becomes very tricky. For instance, turntablism brings a new dimension to the world of djing. A turntablist uses records but you could hardly say that he(she) plays them, more to the point he(she) plays with them. Most turntablists use records that have been cut for the specific purpose of "scratching" them. Forget about playing pre-recorded music. The recorded sounds could be anything from various noises, vocal samples, single instruments etc...that are then use as a "sonic palette". The issue of music/art versus technique is not new. My perspective is that an instrument is only the tool.When talking about the great Jazz players for instance, would their technical expertise be the best perspective? I doubt it. I take it that their contribution to music as a whole would be a better place to start from. The same goes for djs, I believe.

"Disco Dave" the wedding Dj has very little to do with reknowned club djs, the same way that your local handyman has very little to do with Basquiat, although they both use a few brushes and some paint. A radio dj can be compared to a literary critic, giving opportunities to people to discover music they may not know about. A club dj mixes together tracks that may be of very little interest if played on their own, he then creates an experience by finding the right blend, like a cook creates a meal from the raw elements. And then it all gets mixed up when a well known club dj gets a regular spot on the radio, or the other way around. Not being the encyclopedic type, I'll have to stop here and hope that this small contribution can be of some help.

[edit] DJs as artists

In your article, you actually refer to the increasing involment of djs in the music production process. In the past, this role was reserved to "classically" trained musicians who could write scores, arrangements etc...

The definition of a dj as an artist should limit to the use of technical skills to produce a new form of music, and forget about toasting, rapping or even the application of effects. Turntablism goes way beyond playing a couple of records at the same time, it's a new way to produce sounds. The turntable thus becomes an instrument. The notion of "art" then should refer to what has been produced with that instrument.

The turntablism movememt is very recent and often misunderstood. Many people won't accept the musicianship involved reducing it to a simple exhibition of technicality.

Please read the thoroughly researched book by Bill Brewster & Frank Broughton "Last night a Dj saved my life: The History of the Disc Jockey. — 12:02, 12 March 2005 80.14.117.119

Hi there, and welcome to Wikipedia. You start out with "In your article," but that's the thing, it's actually your article. If you, the reader, feel it needs work (and this article certainly does need a lot of it), then edit it. That's how it got to be in the state that it's in today; someone read it, thought it needed some improvement, and they clicked on the edit link and made changes to it. You can do it, too, although preferably after logging in so that you aren't just credited as an anonymous IP address. Also, sign your discussion page posts with 4 tildes, like ~~~~. They'll be converted to a datestamp and userpage link for you automatically. That said, I think you have some good perspectives and I'd welcome your contributions to the "DJ as artist" section of the article. Maybe invest in a spellchecker though ;) — mjb 1 July 2005 09:08 (UTC)

[edit] Notability of DJs

Please see the article WP:MUSIC regarding standards for notability of musicians, including DJs. I think there is room for improvement in the standards for notability; I mean, Alan Freed didn't go on international tours or put out multiple albums of his own, but I don't think his notability is in question, either.

I also don't think we need to list any but the most historically important club and hip-hop DJs in the disc jockey article. Any other DJs with articles of their own should be listed via the existing DJ categories. I have gone ahead and trimmed the lists, added some summaries/justifications for each DJ I was familiar with, and I added category links to each section as well as putting them into a new "See also" section. This will hopefully cut down on the vanity links and make the article more encyclopedic.

There is still some work to do: the hip-hop DJs need descriptions/justifications, and Category:DJs needs to have many of its articles recategorized. — mjb 1 July 2005 10:45 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I edited the intro to a shorter, more concise single paragraph, also adding a definition to the word "deejaying". Perhaps a "deejaying" article should also be created, like mentioned aboev, going into detail all of the deejaying techniques?

It seemed appropriate to group all of the different types of deejays into the heading "types of deejays". Do you all think the subcategories are complete and accurate? Of course, the hip hop section still needs work. kevin 23 Aug 2005 12:46 (UTC)

[edit] The term "selector"

From how i've understood it, back in the day in Jamaica the person playing the records was the "selector". The term "DJ" later referred to either radio DJs, or selectors who would fiddle with the records instead of just playing them. Take a peek at Music of Jamaica#DJs. I haven't been following the DJ-culture as such that much, so i wish someone else would confirm this and add it to the page. Other pages could perhaps mention this too, i'm thinking about Jamaican sound system among others. --mace 20:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

This information was in the opening paragraph until very recently, when it was reworded and moved to the new timeline section, under late 1950s, by Kevinsnow. Perhaps some mention of DJ vs. selector should be restored to the introduction. Be bold in updating pages. :) — mjb 00:33, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I personally don't believe that "DJ vs selector" belongs in the introduction. I certainly recognize the significance of the Jamaican sound systems, but that term only applied to DJs in that specific instance. If someone wants to find out what the word "selector" means, they will go to the article with that title, where it explains that it is a Jamaican DJ, etc etc. The previous intro paragraph also went into detail about other meanings of the word "deejay". This page is about disc jockeys, isn't the purpose of a disambiguation page to distinguish different meanings of the same word? kevinsnow 11:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it's so much that people would be looking to learn about "selectors" so much as it is that they'd be here to learn about DJs, and would be surprised to find out that "DJ" has a lesser-known, region/genre-specific meaning, in addition to its more widely known meanings. If the opening paragraph says that "A DJ is blahblahblah" (a selector) and fails to mention that in some parts of the world or in certain music scenes a DJ is the opposite of that (a rapper), then it's kind of misleading. I think it's important enough of a distinction to be mentioned in the intro. And no, a disambiguation page is to distinguish between different Wikipedia articles about topics with the same name. Unless there is an intention to have a separate article about each kind of DJ, there shouldn't be a disambiguation page; we have to write about them both here. — mjb 17:37, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Very good points, I didn't consider that fully. I think the information definitely belongs in this article, either as a second paragraph in the intro section (not in the first paragraph), or as a section specifically devoted to other meanings, etc. kevinsnow 14:53, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline

When I revamped the timeline section yesterday I divided the periods up according to Rob Wegner's article on DJ history, with 3 waves. I changed them later, b/c those are geared towards Club DJs specifically. I just took away all of the subheadings for the timeline b/c I'm not sure of the best way to loosely categorize it. I think it is a good idea to have them, at least for the sake of breaking it up into managable, readable chunks. Does anyone have any suggestions? kevinsnow 14:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

TIMELINE

FIRST,

Term DJ first originated in Reggae in TOASTING STYLE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

The guy is today known as DiskJockey.

He rules the Dancehall. Directs the Mass. Sings over rhytms. Creates good entertaiment. He is Jockey.

SELECTOR is guy that selects music and is in team with DJ.

Reggae TOASTING came before HIP HOP and TECHNO and deserves to go first. Then other things.

If you need more support of this claim, read toasting section, read "Tonight DJ saved my life"

And yes, reggae is first to come with selectors record vynil driven concept that became hip hop and techno standard.

Just to know how started the SOUND SYSTEM culture that involves both SELECTOR and MC`s.

Radio selector is just selector or Radioman. --Rastavox 00:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What Is a DJ in Jamaican - FIRST TO COME - sense

FIRST,

Term DJ first originated in Reggae in TOASTING STYLE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

The guy is today known as DiskJockey.

He rules the Dancehall. Directs the Mass. Sings over rhytms. Creates good entertaiment. He is Jockey.

SELECTOR is guy that selects music and is in team with DJ.

Reggae TOASTING came before HIP HOP and TECHNO and deserves to go first. Then other things.

If you need more support of this claim, read toasting section, read "Tonight DJ saved my life"

And yes, reggae is first to come with selectors record vynil driven concept that became hip hop and techno standard.

Just to know how started the SOUND SYSTEM culture that involves both SELECTOR and MC`s.

Radio selector is just selector or Radioman. --Rastavox 00:23, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wrongs ...

1) In your timeline it is not mentioned that term DJ is invented

   in Jamaica and that this what is today MC (link to MC page)

2) It is hence wrong the opening definition, since today

  in Reggae bussines original term lives. For example
  Sean Paul is a DJ. Carl Cox is just a selector.
  But, since hip hop and techno overgrown reggae 
  in popularity selector definition should go
  right next, saying that this is todays most
  popular usage (altough missinterpreted)

3) Disc vs Disc is very bad written.

 VYNIL was never called DISC.
 DJ doesn`t have DISC in his name because of VYNIL
 but because he rulled DANCE HALL.

I think this needs to be rewritten in terms CD vs VYNIL
selectors battle. CD`s are for home DJ`s, as well
as DAT`s and MD`s and altough superior in sound
and maintance - all tree `selecta industries`
- reggae/dancehall, hip hop and techno remain
 vynil driven.

4)Think of these things, I can help you with valuable sources

--Rastavox 00:35, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh? Do tell. The term Disc Jockey describes more or less what someone who plays records does -- any other uses of the term are semantic derivatives -- the Jamaican definition seems to have something to do with how pivotal the role of the DJ is in dance music, and a broadening of the idea to include what in the US might be called a promoter. (DJ is apparently a code word for bouncer in some strip clubs too. Not sure what you call the guy in the booth...) As far as CD vs vinyl (not VYNIL), what you're essentially getting into there is an argument about media preferences. The reason a lot of DJs tend to prefer vinyl is because the art of the DJ-as-musician is inherently bound up in the sound effects you can create in vinyl that simply don't exist in digital formats. Haikupoet 04:41, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CPS DJs,VJs,KJs

If a DJ uses a personal computer, I don't think that necessarily constitutes a new category for a type of DJ. Perhaps this information should be included in the equipment section. kevinsnow 16:09, 26 OCtober 2005 (UTC)

Good point Kevin

Agreed. However, A Computerized Performance System is not simply a personal computer either.

Using "Digital DJ" instead is incorrect terminology as digital refers to the method by which the media is stored and manipulated. That being the case, a DJ playing a CD is also a "Digital DJ" and the making the distinction of a CPS is in actuality, a neccessity.

wtf is a cps dj? What is the deal with all this stuff about "CPS DJS", all references to "CPS DJS" lead back to this Computer DJ teaching website which sells $100 dvds to teach you how to play music on a computer. This CPS DJ nonsense sounds like a pile of adjective noun. It'd make sense to mention the two pieces of software that people actually use to dj (Native Instrument's Traktor and Ableton Live). whitemanburntmyland

[edit] Mobile Disc Jockeys Timeline

I have written the first draft of the Mobile DJ timeline. There are some issues with it such as external links, which I will be cleaning up over the next few days creating new articles for organizations I have cited.

I have tried to only include names of those significant to our aspect of the industry.

It is estimated by some that there may be as many as 100,000 DJs nationwide with about half being simply Mobile DJs. I realize there are many crossover DJs too that work the Clubs and Private Party Scene.

A brief bio...

Name: Jim Casey Age 35 from South Portland, Maine. I have been a working Disc Jockey since 1985 (Radio 1985-1998, Mobile 1996-Present) I own a Community Forum for Mobile DJ Professionals (a small one) and have attended many of our industry conventions, conferences, and seminars and co-founded Maine;s only Professional DIsc Jockey Association called the Maine Disc Jockey Network.

- Mr. Casey I added a bio page for DJ Professor Jam you referenced -- the link you had was bad and went nowhere -- some on another thread have no idea who he is or his reference to computer DJing (they are not involved in the industry it seems). Great job on bringing to light our youthful Mobile DJ industry and I hope to see you in Las Vegas at the Mobile Beat convention. Word?>Out

- Thank you for the cleanup and the addition of the Professor Jam page...MB LV not in the works this year - Maybe 2007 **

Wow - that took some time to add-----------

Wow that took some time Jim Casey

[edit] Cleaned Up

You know, I really wish that if a reader feels like an article needs to be "cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality" that they would go ahead and clean it up, instead of just posting a notice at the top of an article and waiting for someone else to do it. Sorry, I just wanted to rant about one of my Wikipedia Pet Peeves. Just be bold and fix it already!! kevin 2 November 2005 14:26 (UTC)

To me, the article was pretty cleaned up until the somewhat bloated section on Mobile DJs was added. So in my opinion, the entire article doesn't need cleaning, but rather that one section. So why don't we go ahead and trim that one down a bit? Perhaps make a whole new page for "Mobile DJs"? kevin 4 November 2005 15:54 (UTC)

A mistake

U-Roy is not a hip-hop DJ. he is a Jamacian DeeJay (ie he toast or 'raps' accross the top of records put on by what is reffered to in Jamacia as the selector. King Tubby (with his hi-fi sounds system) would be a selector or DJ in the sense of this article. U-Roy is a vocal artist. This really should be changed

[edit] The Whole Thing Needs To Be Tidied Up

First, to the person who mentioned David Mancuso as the "father" of the modern DJ, actually he is not. That distinction belongs to Francis Grasso. What David Mancuso brought to the table that was unique and no less important was the concept of the private party (by invitation only) which he held in his personal loft, hence the name "the Loft." Francis Grasso was the person who actually started overlaying sounds together that lead in to remixing 45's together in order to lengthen the track for the dance floor through slip-cuing with a mat underneath the record on a turntable and later experimenting with the beginnings of beat-matching and seguing 2 records together. David actually went and heard Francis playing at his nightclub. Remember, Francis was doing his thing in 1968 and 1969, David did not start the Loft parties until Valentine's Day, 1970. Both contributed to the greater good of the craft though.

Mobile DJs...this whole section wanders and is too lengthy for a generalized term as Disc Jockey. I would condense the whole thing down to one decent paragraph and move the rest to its only heading.

Also, we need to move away from the idea of listing each and every type of DJ. It's not about everyone getting their props, it's about defining what a DJ does which is the one link that joins all of us together. Why list rave DJs as separate?

Also, I was told that to link references at the bottom of the article that it needed to have credible references, not just articles from anyone out there with no sources sited. Also that credible sources needed to have a Libray of Congress reference.

Finally, Wikipedia itself it flagging this article as too long!

I would maintain the the term and definition of disc jockey should remain in a generalized context and that separate entries be added with these definitions and linked back to this article. This is not the DJ List and should not include every DJ regardless of genre or expertise known to mankind. Keep the true pioneers listed.

Also, the Microsoft event that keeps getting re-added to the TimeLine list but it had no bearing on the computer world or the DJ world. Seems like someone is trying to get a free plug for Microsoft, as if they need it. Again, site a source or reference and show WHY this is important.

Concur with this paragraph. Too many unsourced statements, many self-edits, do not meet WP:VERIFY. All unsourced edits will be removed. Edits should have a verifiable neutral reliable third party citation. Ronbo76 15:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DJ Shadow?

Hey, I just thought than DJ Shadow should be added to the list of notable hiphop deejays.

While Shadow may be a great DJ, I would think the article should showcase pioneering DJs who have influenced others. Shadow was 10 years old at the beginning of the 80's and there were certainly lots of other DJs who influenced him on the urban side as well as the pioneering jocks on the dance side.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.19.25.230 (talk) 23:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] External Link Addition Requests

The DJ List -- comprehensive website with more than one hundred thousand global DJs from all genres.
- *note that someone mentions "the DJ List" in the updates above

The one and only true talent any DJ needs: PROGRAMMING PROGRAMMING AND PROGRAMMING. The ability to follow one record with the right one. A black art. Check out 'How to DJ Properly' by Bill Brewster. Sam

Every art is "black". Rootless 00:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disc Jockey

There seem to be a lot of young people posting about Vinyl and disc. Well, look back into the history of Djing and it did all start with the Vinyl Disc at the radio level. There wasn't tape or CD's, obviously when radio first coined the term. But I do agree that there needs to be a more clearer section within the topic of Disc Jockey here on this site. Like lined out on a post. radio/club/party/what have you. I want to add that having been a club dj for 20 years, radio dj for 9 years and a party dj for 22 years, that no matter where you are spinning, it takes a face and name and certain energy to perform. Not everyone can walk into a room, open the mic and start talking, not everyone can spin a set at a club and not everyone can do what it takes to make a wedding party happy. I think people need to realize that as a dj, we are many times asked to be the band and the host. In the club you have to read the crowd and hopefully make adjustments to keep people dancing. In weddings you have to play to the bride or you will lose your business. In radio you have to be able to paint a picture in the theater of the mind. It takes a special knack to apply all of those traits into one body. If you are not doing this, you are stealing from the art form and you are robbing your clients!

Respect to anyone that puts the needle to the record.

Travis —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.210.20.54 (talk) 16:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Edits by User:Eleemosynary to this article and contrary Mark Simone, WABC (AM) etal.

Please see the contribs of User:Eleemosynary. Prior to tonight, no edits on this article appeared by this user. The contrib pattern seems to indicate that this user has a strong ownership pattern to Mark Simone and edits concerning that person. Ronbo76 05:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If you had checked my history regarding the Simone edits with anything more than a cursory examination, you would have seen what I have done is remove an extensive amount of Pro-Simone POV spam planted by one user trying to game the system through several anonymous IPs. This has been going for a great deal of time, on several pages. One wonders whether Simone himself is making the edits.

My edits do not come from an "ownership pattern," but from a desire to remove PR & POV. Eleemosynary 05:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hate Speech

This article starts off with the line "DJ's are gay faggots and take it up the ass". Can someone fix this and track down the person who wrote it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.62.161.255 (talk) 03:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Digital disc jockeys"

In my opinion, the section on the terminology of "Digital DJ" v "CPS DJ" is badly written, possibly not NPOV, and possibly an advertisement. It should probably be removed or completely rewritten. Jibjibjib 10:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Would you like to try a rewrite? Ronbo76 14:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

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