Talk:Barry Manilow

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	Barry Manilow was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision.
Article Milestones Date Process Result December 19, 2006 Peer review Reviewed January 14, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed February 7, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed Current Status: Failed good article nominee

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Note about chronology of discussion: The discussions on this page have been left generally in the order in which contributors chose to insert their comments; please note, however, that the earliest discussions may appear further down the page than responses to those early discussions. Also, many were initially unsigned and undated. I have made the effort today to use the "unsigned" template and the Talk page history to fix this confusion; also, in a few places where the chronology jumps around, I added an indentation to clarify the thread of discussion (i.e., who is responding to whom, when). I know some may see that as taking liberties, but I am trying simply to be bold in helping to clarify a confusing discussion.Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 personal life 2 Just so you all know.... 3 The Damned Crotch Pic 4 Image again 5 penthouse 8 years? 6 ALBUMS 7 Father's parentage 8 Barry Manilow Album Template Needed 9 Upload These Publicity Photos To Wikipedia Commons, Please 10 Failed GA nom 11 Feedback 12 GA 13 Footnotes 14 Grammar

[edit] personal life

This could use a short blurb about his personal life. has he been married? has he had kids? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.171.35.198 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 12 February 2006.

I beleive Barry Manilow is 60 years old not 63 so the year he was born should be 1946 not 1943. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.250.172 (talk • contribs) 02:20, 10 September 2006.

The article, as currently constituted, asserts that early in Manilow's career, Arista Records lied about his age — saying he was three years younger than he is — in order to appeal to a younger fan base. I'll go back and see if that claim is sourced. Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Married once, no kids—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weatherman90 (talk • contribs) 15:30, 19 February 2006.

He was never married, surely? He's not into that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.255.236.103 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 26 March 2006.

Manilow is believed to be gay.

comment under picture, is this vandalised? Manilow eats man meat? Sounds like an insult to me...

His initial claim to fame was playing the piano for Bette Midler (a gay icon) at the Continental Baths (a gay sex club). In 1998, he organized a benefit for the Gay Men's Health Center in New York.

As with many celebs, Manilow fears that outing himself would detract from his fan base, mainly middle-aged or older women.

Here's a photo of Barry with a "close friend" in Greenwich Village:

http://socialitelife.com/images/barrymanilow02.jpg

Any attempt at entering anything about Manilow's personal life (i.e. alluding to his sexuality) in Wikipedia is undone by his fans, such as Michael Zimmer (Mtz206). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.228.74.197 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 5 April 2006.

Why's the photograph somehow relevant? A dude walking in the street with another dude - that makes them homosexual? As for "Manilow fears that outing himself would detract from his fan base", please present verifiable sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.157.147.7 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 7 September 2006.

---

7/4/06 This removal stuff is getting ridiculous and it smacks of censorship! Other celebrities have Wikipedia entries about somewhat sensitive things about their personal life, what makes Barry Manilow so sacrosanct that no one can talk about stuff that is mentioned right here on the discussion page? I was attempting to address the issue raised earlier on this page re: no information personal life. I put in a perfectly FAIR paragraph about the biographies and his personal life, everything I put in there was VERIFIABLE with legitimate sources...and it was removed by Wakeenah in its entirety! I would say that if enough people are discussing it here at this talk page AND throughout cyberspace...it is VERY relevant! I say that my paragraph should be re-instated (at least the part about the marriages) and this page then be put on a protected basis.Ladycascadia 22:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

You are trying to push your own personal agenda of "outing" someone who has not stated publicly what his orientation is. I don't care if you have TEN books that say he's gay. Until HE HIMSELF says so, or until someone has published a verifiable photo of him making out with another man, it is irrelevant. Wahkeenah 23:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Wakheena, you do not not know me, so I feel it is out of line to accuse me of having any sort of "agenda" personal or otherwise. I really don't care one way or another. Despite what you might think, I have no "agenda" nor am I "outing" or "closeting" anyone here! I merely attempted to address the first issue addressed here at the talk page re: the lack of information on Mr. Manilow's personal life. Based on other Wikipedia pages about other celebrities and their relationships or lack thereof, I do not feel it is wrong to have that paragraph. The marriage and the cohabitational relationships are definitely verifiable. Manilow himself even wrote two songs about the relationships he was involved in. One was called Some Good Things Never Last which is available on the Barry Manilow album from 1989. The other is called A Linda Song which is on the Even Now album from 1977. That fact can be backed up by his OFFICIAL website, Barrynet. So perhaps you can tell us editors here how best to write about this topic without rejecting it out of hand or making any unfounded accusations. I happen to be a Manilow fan, and I do not mean any harm to him or his career. As for the stuff about Manilow's alleged orientation... like it or not, the speculation is there, and has been there for a long time. I didn't invent it. I also noticed that any references to his early career playing piano for Bette Midler at the Continental Baths has been excised from the page as well. Now this is a well known fact that any true Manilow fan knows, and has been for more than 30 years. So why can't that be discussed or placed on the page? Ladycascadia 02:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC) 02:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Your actions contradict your words. Wahkeenah 05:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Wahkeenah, you and others here seem to need the proverbial brick to fall on your head. Of course we cannot 'prove' whether Manilow is gay or not, just as you cannot 'prove' that he is not. What difference does it make if we have a photograph of it or not? Did we have any of Rock Hudson? No, but that didn't change the fact that he was gay. Manilow would have been crazy to make a public statement of his sexuality, as it would have severely hurt his record sales, and he is in business, after all. If Manilow doesn't want to talk about his private life, there is a good enough reason for it, and it's his decision, but the writing is clearly on the wall. Whoever removed the info regarding Barry's origins at the Continental is the one who has the "agenda", as stated elsewhere on this page. References to Manilow's sexuality do not belong on the main page, but the information about his professional origins does. Get over it! VertigoXpress 15:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

There is a very serious difference between something being obvious and something being a fact; given proper evidence, all facts are obvious, but not all obvious things necessarily turn out to be facts, and one should be very, very careful when stating something obvious as a fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.157.147.7 (talk • contribs) 16:15, 7 September 2006.

It might be argued that it is YOU who has the "agenda" by completely removing the ENTIRE paragraph then making an attack such as you did in the history section accusing people of slander. This is NOT my intent. Fine, you win. I'm not going to participate in this section anymore. It's not worth all this aggravation. May I suggest, however, that you take a look at the wikipedia profile for say Jim Morrison of the Doors? There is a large section dealing with Morrison's personal life, some of which is unsubstantiated, but no one sees fit to go in there and expurge entire sections and then accuse others of having "bad" intentions. So what if Manilow is or is not gay? Does it make him a lesser musician? absolutely not! Johnny Mathis is gay and it hasn't hurt his fan base, nor has it hurt the fan bases of Elton John or Ellen Degeneres. Other stars are straight and it doesn't change a thing, either. I think that an emotionally mature fan or person is not afraid to discuss ALL aspects of a celebrity's life, but you needn't worry...I will not be coming back here since in your zeal to 'overprotect' you see fit to make unwarranted attacks on the characters of other Wikipedians as you did on Arniep and myself...and in doing, so you are indulging in a bit of a hypocrisy, don't you think? Enjoy your little "victory" against people's First Amendment freedoms Ladycascadia 20:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Slander is not covered under the First Amendment. Morrison is dead. Elton and Ellen have gone public. I don't know about Mathis. Unless someone either says they are, or someone produces a photo of them making out with a same-sex partner, or if it is proven some way (and not just somebody's opinion, in a book or whatever), then it is nothing more than gossip and has no place here. Wahkeenah 04:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

4/19/2006 That pic of Barry Manilow is NOT real it's FAKE. Barry is NOT gay!! And he said over and over that he's married to his music:)Well then I guess that explains his relationship with a WOMAN he's been living with(Linda Allen) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.204.219.230 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 20 April 2006.

Nope, he's not gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :) Wahkeenah 02:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Note: It's not clear which of two disputed photos is being referenced here. One person posted a photo of Manilow allegedly grabbing his crotch in concert, which others said was an impersonator (then removing the post) and still others claimed to have seen in person (not that that would necessarily count under Wikipedia verifiability standards) or to have posted an article about (which would count). However, I get the impression that Wahkeenah was disputing the photo posted 5 April 2006, when one poster argued that a photo of Manilow with a male companion was evidence of a gay relationship, a claim likewise disputed by various people on this Talk page. Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

10/7/06 Anybody ever bother to read his autobiography? He talks about his marriage and his relationships with women. He does not state that he is gay. I don't give a crap if he is. Unless HE says so, it's nobody's business. Does it make his music any worse or better? And as to the whole Continental Baths thing: Bette Midler played there too and she's married and has a kid.... not that that means anything, I was once married to a gay man and we had a son. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Absolutlysexy (talk • contribs) 19:48, 9 October 2006.

[edit] Just so you all know....

Barry Manilow's NOT gay! He's been living with his lady friend Linda Allen. I don't know for sure if they are still together I heard rumours that in 2000 they broke up:( But now I heard that he's with some new chick named Keely(Watson?). Jeez it just goes to show you he's got a big heart and accepts people of all kinds and that does NOT make him gay in any way. Don't get me wrong I've got nothing against gay people but I know Barry's NOT one of them!

From a loving female fanilow —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.204.219.230 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 20 April 2006.

Note by Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC): Looking through the history shows that the user 151.204.219.230 created this "Just so you know" section after deleting the entire "personal life" discussion (with the edit summary "deleted garbage"), a change reverted by 62.255.232.80, with the "just so you know" restored by Arniep post-reversion.

Comment: It is so amusing when one sees these clueless "fans," who worship a performer, and not his work. The key word is "worship," not "appreciate," or "understand." Mention that a peformer, composer, playwright, etc. might be gay, and these "fans" become apopleptic. That Mr. Manilow is gay is such common knowledge among urbanites and others in the music industry, that no one even raises an eyebrow. These "fans," wherever they live, with their heads (or whatever) in the sand, inhabit a time-warp all their own, oblivious even to their "idol." Ditto for his middle-aged hard-up female "admirers," for Liberace. Those women of a certain age, who repeatedly denied any hint of a suggestion of an innuendo that he might somewhow be *gasp* homosexual. Wake up; Manilow is gay. You can be a fan in spite of his serious moral failing, or whatever your sense of values decrees it to be. We can list these groups indefinitely: Elton John, Liberace, George Michael, Stephen Sondheim, etc. etc. Enjoy the music, and don't be overly concerned about what he does in his bedroom, or with whom. 66.108.4.183 13:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

"Common knowledge" is otherwise known as "gossip" or "hearsay" or "original research", and thus is ineligible for entry in this website. More to the point, unless you've either heard Manilow say that he's gay, or have seen him making out with a man, you have no basis for this assertion. Wahkeenah 14:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

1. "Common knowledge" can mean gossip, hearsay, or rumor, as you say. But it can also refer to facts such as the discovery of America in 1492.

2. Even if I had first-hand knowledge of the kind you describe, it would be ineligible (and properly so) for inclusion in Wikipedia because of the prohibition on (a) no original research (b) no facts that are not publicly verifiable. :::Consequently:

3. I did not place my statements in the body of the article.

4. Nevertheless, I merely intended to point to one of a group of facts which, while not universally known, are indeed known to many people. All I was doing was responding, in the same informal vein as the previous writer, to the issue under discussion. My comments were not intended to convince anyone who does not want to be convinced. 66.108.4.183 05:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Your posting of this non-information on the talk page helps further the rumors despite the lack of any evidence. Wahkeenah 11:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have not been following the debate, but I stopped buy to read about the extent to which it is believed that Manilow is gay. While it is clear that he has not publicly stated whether or not he is gay, there is still a belief, held by a number of the public, that he is. One can address the perception, and acknowledge that it is unsubstantiated, and it is still worthy of an encyclopedia. Srcastic 02:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

And thus make wikipedia an agent in furthering slander. Yeh, that's a good idea. Wahkeenah 14:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

well, i work in the music biz and not everyone in it "knows" he is gay as is claimed here. First of all his private life is his private life and working in this business will not change what we know and don't know. The comparison with Liberace is not needed. First of all the public are a lot more understanding today and most people guessed liberace was a poofter before he died. Not so in Barry's case. He has not done anything to raise suspicions beyond mere gossip. 74.65.39.59 14:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Working in a gay bathhouse playing piano for Bette Midler doesn't raise suspicions about being gay? I mean, granted it doesn't mean he IS, but if this doesn't raise a few questions, please tell me what would? VertigoXpress 16:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

If you want to explore such speculation, find an online discussion forum. This is an encyclopedia. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 16:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[The next comment (MichaelZimmer 4 August 06) references a message that VertigoXpress had posted then deleted from this space.]

Perhaps you are working on a stronger argument, since you deleted your original reply [1], but according to your logic, if BM played in a church, then he must be a priest, and if he played in a football stadium, then he must be a sports fan (or at least "raise a few questions"). Again, idle speculation has no place in an encyclopedia. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 18:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC) (signed in as User:ZimZalaBim/ZimZalaBim)

I deleted my response because it seems as if the info about the Continental Baths has been restored to the article. I was under the impression fans were deleting it, out of fear it might confirm somebody's suspicion that Manilow might be gay. The inclusion of facts is the only thing that attracted me to this discussion in the first place, I never attempted to place any discussion about Manilow's sexuality in the main article, which this is not. Additionally, the whole discussion is absolutely ridiculous and a waste of time, as trying to explain the obvious always is. VertigoXpress 07:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Look either you love his music or you don't. I'm a young female Barry fan and I could careless who he sleeps with. Just as long as he's happy and healthy and keeps making beautiful music then its ok with me:) November 16,2006 - ---...FF17:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)~

Manilow is gay, his partner as pictured above is Gary Kief. Its really interesting to see what "private inofrmation" is allowed to be posted in wikipedia, and which is considered taboo. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.125.163.221 (talk) 12:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Prove it. Wahkeenah 13:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, Barry Manilow is straight. Married once, then in long term relationships with women. I think this person who keeps writing here about it is the gay one. One thing that should be outed though is his plastic surgery - he can hardly move his face know, and Jonathan Ross, who interviewed him, stated that he has definitely had "work".

[edit] The Damned Crotch Pic

Note by Lawikitejana 21:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC): This discussion of a picture actually predated other discussions on this Talk page, some of which refer to the discussion that follows. The original message, responses, and picture (purporting to show Manilow grabbing his crotch during a performance) were deleted later, in some cases by those who posted them.

Ok. Given the category of entertainment Manilow is known for (ie: he's not Michael Jackson), the picture can be considered derogatory (and likely actionable) if we leave it up there either incorrectly characterised, or without proper primary source documentation that it was *actually* Manilow.

Since none of us (I'm assuming) wish to get Wikipedia *sued*, I'm sure we can all leave the picture *off* the page until such time as someone can provide the appropriate primary documentation as to whom the picture is actually of... right? You're on notice, people. Quit playing; we have a Sandbox for that. Baylink 19:49, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Here's proof it's really Barry Manilow:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/manohmanilow

not my club but I heard he grabbed it recently in chicago.

So there you go.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by name (talk • contribs) date.

Here's more proof it's really Barry.

Chicago Daily Herald - Barry's show lacking in Barry

http://www.dailyherald.com/lake/main_story.asp?intID=3828384

Chicago Daily Herald - October 23, 2004

Barry's show lacking in Barry By Jamie Sotonoff Daily Herald Staff Writer

As he said hello to fans at the Allstate Arena Thursday night, Barry Manilow referred to himself as "your old friend Barry."

But our old friend Barry has developed some new interests (and a new blond hair color) since his popularity peaked in the 1970s. Perhaps a better name for him these days is Broadway Barry.

[ ... ]

Adding to the show's Vegas-y feel was Manilow's audience interaction and his crotch-grabbing dance move during "Copacabana."

[ ... ] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.204.123.42 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 7 December 2004. (original anonymous post-er of article, pre-editing) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.204.64.141 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 17 May 2005. (posted edited-down version)

Yeah; *that's* what I would construe as a primary source. Thanks to the anonymous poster (I've trimmed the quote down to avoid copyvio), and my apologies to those I was arguing with. Baylink 18:07, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I attended Barry's Vegas Show "Music and Passion" July 5th 2006, and I can verifiy that I did see him grab his crotch during the lyrics "show em what you got" (or something to that effect) on the Copa Cabana finale up on a raised platform. My take was that it was a bit toung in cheek, but I was surprised by it. (Birdsanctuary) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.133.166.87 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 8 July 2006.

[edit] Image again

The next problem with that image is "what's the copyright status?". I've had an email (on the foundation mail) stating that the writer is the copyright holder and did not give permission for its use. As we have no source information and an active complaint, I have deleted it. If the source can be verified and shown to be suitably licensed, then we can replace it. Anyone got any relevant information? -- sannse (talk) 11:29, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Um, "screw it"?  :-) I'm certainly not going to fight for it.
--Baylink 22:50, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] penthouse 8 years?

Just wondering where'd they get 8 years from? I checked and can't find no mention of it in that article. nevermind found it and just fixed it. a fan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.204.64.141 (talk • contribs) 15:59, 11 August 2005.

[edit] ALBUMS

I have been making articles for each album...they all look pretty much the same; picture, track listing, summary, and side info box. If you have any suggestions as to something else I should add, let me know. Weatherman90 15:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Father's parentage

Please note whoever it is that keeps changing this from the correct version- Manilow's father was Harold Pincus who was son of Harry Pincus (who was Russian-Jewish) and Anna Sheehan (who was Irish). His grandparents separated and his grandmother remarried an Irish truckdriver named Kelliher- he was not Manilow's grandfather as some biographies have incorrectly stated. Arniep 21:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

---

Here's proof that Barry isn't an atheist he actually answered some of my questions and this is one of them: me-Are you really an atheist now? Barry Manilow-I'm not an atheist. As you know, the definition of atheist is: Somebody who does not believe in God or other deities. I believe that there is someone, we know not who, that is doing something, we know not what. I believe in a "force,” an "All That Is.” But I know that there is some beautiful energy that only wants good for us and that we can access this energy whenever we want it. And I believe that we are all here to become brave enough to allow that energy through us so that we can help others and forgive everyone and ourselves.

[edit] Barry Manilow Album Template Needed

Could somebody signed up here create a template for Barry Manilow's albums. All but one have pages of their own. It would save space in the article by just having a template at the bottom. 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Upload These Publicity Photos To Wikipedia Commons, Please

• Barry Manilow 1973 album cover
• Publicity photo of Barry Manilow with co-producer Ron Dante in recording studio)
• Publicity still from The Third Barry Manilow Special (1979, "I Write The Songs" Emmy award-winning production number)
• Publicity color still of Manilow and Bruce Sussman with 1997 Harmony cast

67.98.154.56 14:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oh Julie! 1982 album

[edit] Failed GA nom

On several fronts, this article is good - it is accurate, broad in coverage, relatively NPOV (although there is a lot of puffy language - "Manilow got the century off to a good start" etc - not a lot, but glowing language is not the best.) However, I have two major bones of contention. While some of the images are good, the enormous collection of album covers at the bottom seems excessive, although I know other pages do this too. It just addes a tremendous amount of length. This is also true of the huge list of singles.

My biggest concern, however, is the sheer length of the prose. I feel that the article goes into excessive detail, mentioning every single he released, detailing every tour and special, and so on. Quoting Manilow in paragraph after paragraph, as though annotating the actual information in the article with Manilow's own comments, also tends to bloat it into overlength. The lead and table of contents are also too long. My suggestion would be for an editor or editors to cut this rather ruthlessly. You might also consider looking at John Lennon to see how another long article with a prolific subject deals with trying to incorporate everything at once. Good luck!-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 17:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This article had failed its GA nom... andreasegde 18:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback

It needs more in-line citations on a lot of paragraphs—GA reviewers look kindly on that sort of thing. Also: Try and condense/join together some sentences. It looks like a trivia article at times; if things happened in the same year, you can put them together. It makes the prose flow a little more. (I have learned this from past experiences, BTW...) Good luck. andreasegde 18:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have pulled a few paragraphs together. andreasegde 18:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The article has improved quite a bit since I reviewed it 2 weeks ago, thanks for considering my suggestions. It still has a bit too much play-by-play for my taste (and then on May 1, 1989, he released this single. And then on May 30 1989 he recorded a duet with Cher. etc etc) but it isn't quite as sprawling as it had been. -Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 05:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA

• It has a trivia section, remove it or incorperate it into the body.
• Reference #1 links to someones user page on Wikipedia...?
• Lots of references are missing details, such as publisher (the website), date accessed, author(if there is one)

* Discography, and song and compositions does not meet WP:Summary style, list his studio albums, perhaps a double list done in Nightwish would work here, and list songs and comps under see also
* References come after punctuation with no space . [70] should be .[70]

• There are an awful lot of one sentence paragraphs, merge, remove or expand

* The first sentence says hes a singer, writer etc then the next sentence just says, he has sold over 45 million copies with no flow
**In 1978, five of his albums were on the best-selling charts simultaneously, a feat equalled only by Frank Sinatra and Johnny Mathis. He has achieved a string of Billboard hit singles and multi-platinum albums and became the number one Adult Contemporary artist. He won the American Music Award for Favorite Pop/Rock Male Artist for three consecutive years. This section has no flow at all, same with the third
* Manilow was born Barry Alan Pincus, shouldn't be bolded
* When he was two years old, Harold, who himself was born to a Russian-Jewish father and Irish mother, and Edna divorced. This sentence isn't clear, did his parents divorce or, if its about Manilow say 'When Manilow was two etc'
* He began his recording career, Paragraph ends talking about his relatives, say Manilow began his career

• As a youth Manilow idolized music conductors and composers such as Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, Cole Porter and Nelson Riddle. Reference?

* The musical became a success and ran for eight years. Reference?

• Manilow worked with Midler for four years from 1971 to 1975, Reference

* See also: Dick Clark Productions shouldn't be stuck in the middle of the writing
* 'hit' is used twenty times, 'popular' is used five time, success if used seven times

• Images are missing fair use rationales (see license tag for more info)

Article needs better flow, a reference for each paragraph, remove POV and the trivia section and format some references to include all details. Refer to Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review for helpful critique, should also make an account if you're going to make decent contributions because if you want to get it further then GA people will remove the FA nomination. M3tal H3ad 09:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Footnotes

• footnote

<ref>reference</ref>

• templated

<ref>{{cite news |url= |title=}}</ref>

<ref>{{cite web |url= |title=}}</ref>

• completely templated

<ref>{{cite news |first= |last= |author= |url= |title= |work= |publisher= |pages= |page= |date= |accessdate=}}</ref>

<ref>{{cite web |last= |first= |authorlink= |coauthors= |year= |url= |title= |format= |work= |publisher= |accessdate= |accessyear=}}</ref>

<ref>{{cite press release |publisher= |date= |title= |url= |accessdate=}}</ref>

Automatically generated templated footnotes have two required fields - url & title. Other possible fields do not have to be filled in, if they are present, nor need they be present for the templates to generate footnotes that work. Since double spaces cause the templates not to work, be careful to avoid any double spaces. The least that need be done is to copy the url then paste it at the template's url equals sign, and copy the article title then paste it at the template's title equals sign, and place the template in the text where the footnote number should appear. The working footnote then will be numbered and generated automatically.

[edit] Grammar

Sometimes it takes someone that hasn't read an article to notice grammar mistakes. The second paragraph of the article has 2 incomplete sentences. The last paragraph under the "70s" section says something about somebody airing, but doesn't say who or what aired. I wouldn't know how to fix these grammatical mistakes but someone with knowledge of this article would so I'm pointing these out the masses :) --Mjrmtg 03:08, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The last sentence of the third paragraph under the "80s" section I believe the word "which" should be taken out. --Mjrmtg 03:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)